PJ...

[*4purdue*]

Not even in the top 15 in the B1G in Assist/Turnover ratio for B1G play.


Assist/Turnover Ratio GP Assists Avg. T-overs Avg. Ratio
1. Jaylon Tate, Illinois 12 36 3.0 10 0.8 3.6
2. Mike Gesell, Iowa 13 73 5.6 24 1.8 3.0
3. Denzel Valentine, Michigan State 10 72 7.2 25 2.5 2.9
Nate Mason, Minnesota 13 60 4.6 21 1.6 2.9
5. Bryant McIntosh, Northwestern 13 85 6.5 33 2.5 2.6
6. Anthony Clemmons, Iowa 13 44 3.4 18 1.4 2.4
7. Melo Trimble, Maryland 13 65 5.0 33 2.5 2.0
8. JaQuan Lyle, Ohio State 13 60 4.6 31 2.4 1.9
9. Kevin Yogi Ferrell, Indiana 13 70 5.4 39 3.0 1.8
Zak Irvin, Michigan 13 46 3.5 26 2.0 1.8
11. Corey Sanders, Rutgers 12 57 4.8 34 2.8 1.7
12. Derrick Walton Jr., Michigan 13 46 3.5 28 2.2 1.6
Rasheed Sulaimon, Maryland 13 39 3.0 24 1.8 1.6
Shep Garner, Penn State 12 42 3.5 26 2.2 1.6
Robert Johnson, Indiana 13 45 3.5 29 2.2 1.6

 

[boilerzz]

The B1G threshold for inclusion is 3.0 assists per game. PJ is currently at 2.7 because Purdue's motion offense doesn't necessitate the PG being the primary passer. Between that, and the fact that he's only averaging 24 minutes per game, he isn't averaging 3 assists.

If he can get to that threshold and maintain anywhere close to his pace, he'll break the NCAA record for ATO.

 

[*4purdue*]

The B1G threshold for inclusion is 3.0 assists per game. PJ is currently at 2.7 because Purdue's motion offense doesn't necessitate the PG being the primary passer.

Not true... 15 on the list is Robert Johnson at 1.6 per game. In fact, only the top 2 on the list are over 3.0 per game. PJ's average of 2.7 is for all games. The list above is for B1G games only. PJ's average in B1G games is less than 1.6. If you remember to the start of the B1G, PJ was averaging something crazy like 6.0. He has dropped off significantly since the B1G has started & the competition has gotten better.

 

[boilerzz]

Not true... 15 on the list is Robert Johnson at 1.6 per game. In fact, only the top 2 on the list are over 3.0 per game. PJ's average of 2.7 is for all games. The list above is for B1G games only. PJ's average in B1G games is less than 1.6. If you remember to the start of the B1G, PJ was averaging something crazy like 6.0. He has dropped off significantly since the B1G has started & the competition has gotten better.

The threshold is assists per game, not ATO. You are looking at Robert Johnson's ATO. He's averaging 3.5 assists.

 

[boilerzz]

He has dropped off significantly since the B1G has started & the competition has gotten better.

And FYI - PJ has committed exactly one TO in his last 11 games combined (a total of 262 minutes of game time). That is remarkable.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/3136993/pj-thompson

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

Not even in the top 15 in the B1G in Assist/Turnover ratio for B1G play.

really?...just let it go. for the love of all things holy let this topic die.

 

[Statey]

And FYI - PJ has committed exactly one TO in his last 11 games combined (a total of 262 minutes of game time). That is remarkable.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/3136993/pj-thompson

It really is. I don't believe PJ is "hurting" the team anymore than a QB who is a good "game manager" does in football. Put another way, his play is not costing Purdue wins; now, maybe if he was more skilled/athletic/aggressive/scoring-threat/whatever, he could perhaps make up for other shortcomings the team has, and in turn maybe have another win or 2. But that's not the same thing as assigning the blame to him for the losses.

But since we're on the turnover topic, turnover margin is a HUGE problem. Through games played yesterday, Purdue is ranked 311th in turnover margin (-2.2/game). Significantly contributing to this is that Purdue is 336th in forced turnovers per game. Now the 336 is determined based on "per game" and doesn't take into account pace like "per possession" would, but still. This is absolutely staggering given that Purdue has a top-10 defense in terms of points per possession (Kenpom). So yes, turnovers are a bit of a problem (ranked 123rd at 12.4/game), but they are completely inept at turning over the opponents.

EDIT: except as noted with the Kenpom reference, info is from stats at ncaa.com.

 

[Boiler Wolf]

Our steals are way down from years past. I don't know if that is because we don't have athletic players, no Kenny Lowe or Chris Kramer types, or the rule changes have prevented us from employing the hacking/clawing defense we used to have that generated the steals, or perhaps a combo of all the above, but except for picking off an errant pass, we don't create a lot of TOs. Apologies for that massive run-on sentence.

 

[FirstDownB]

And FYI - PJ has committed exactly one TO in his last 11 games combined (a total of 262 minutes of game time). That is remarkable.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/3136993/pj-thompson

 

[dumpsterFyre]

Prof. Boilerzz---School is in session!

 

[mathboy]

Not even in the top 15 in the B1G in Assist/Turnover ratio for B1G play.


Assist/Turnover Ratio GP Assists Avg. T-overs Avg. Ratio
1. Jaylon Tate, Illinois 12 36 3.0 10 0.8 3.6
2. Mike Gesell, Iowa 13 73 5.6 24 1.8 3.0
3. Denzel Valentine, Michigan State 10 72 7.2 25 2.5 2.9
Nate Mason, Minnesota 13 60 4.6 21 1.6 2.9
5. Bryant McIntosh, Northwestern 13 85 6.5 33 2.5 2.6
6. Anthony Clemmons, Iowa 13 44 3.4 18 1.4 2.4
7. Melo Trimble, Maryland 13 65 5.0 33 2.5 2.0
8. JaQuan Lyle, Ohio State 13 60 4.6 31 2.4 1.9
9. Kevin Yogi Ferrell, Indiana 13 70 5.4 39 3.0 1.8
Zak Irvin, Michigan 13 46 3.5 26 2.0 1.8
11. Corey Sanders, Rutgers 12 57 4.8 34 2.8 1.7
12. Derrick Walton Jr., Michigan 13 46 3.5 28 2.2 1.6
Rasheed Sulaimon, Maryland 13 39 3.0 24 1.8 1.6
Shep Garner, Penn State 12 42 3.5 26 2.2 1.6
Robert Johnson, Indiana 13 45 3.5 29 2.2 1.6

PJ plays fewer minutes than many of these players. I suggest you look at Assists per 40 minutes which balances the playing time. PJ come in at 4.9 assists/40 minutes which is good for 8th place. If you look at his assists per turnovers, you can see he leads the BIG by a big margin. Now, I pulled these off the BIG web page, but they look like whole season averages. I wanted just BIG. I can't be sure which these numbers are based on. It does list PJ as having 11 TO's so I think they are whole season statistics.

 

[boilerzz]

But since we're on the turnover topic, turnover margin is a HUGE problem

Ironically you'd think turnover margin is a huge problem. But the three worst teams in the B1G are Purdue (12th), Michigan State (13th) and Maryland (14th).

 

[rgarlitz]

Wow, boilerzz, that is incredible! Not the best fodder for coaches preaching taking care of the ball! Maybe that's why all 3 teams have headscratching losses on their schedules.

 

[*4purdue*]

Did he come back after he went out with an injury tonight? I can't remember seeing him on the floor after that. Did not hear what his injury was either.

 

[purdue4sure]

Not true... 15 on the list is Robert Johnson at 1.6 per game. In fact, only the top 2 on the list are over 3.0 per game. PJ's average of 2.7 is for all games. The list above is for B1G games only. PJ's average in B1G games is less than 1.6. If you remember to the start of the B1G, PJ was averaging something crazy like 6.0. He has dropped off significantly since the B1G has started & the competition has gotten better.

You keep trying to argue your point, and failing. So what exactly is your point, besides coming up with something -- anything -- to criticize? Even when it isn't there.

 

[Dakota Girl]

Our steals are way down from years past. I don't know if that is because we don't have athletic players, no Kenny Lowe or Chris Kramer types, or the rule changes have prevented us from employing the hacking/clawing defense we used to have that generated the steals, or perhaps a combo of all the above, but except for picking off an errant pass, we don't create a lot of TOs. Apologies for that massive run-on sentence.

Painter has backed off the pressure due to a combo of player body types and rule changes. They are very long but not laterally quick so he is positioning them to take away driving lanes more so than getting into the ball and the passing lanes.

 

[nagemj02]

Painter has backed off the pressure due to a combo of player body types and rule changes. They are very long but not laterally quick so he is positioning them to take away driving lanes more so than getting into the ball and the passing lanes.

That seems right for the most part. He hasn't backed off the pressure completely. The PG's are still instructed to pick up the "inboundee" or opposing PG the full length of the court most of the time.

Also, Purdue just hasn't had many really good pick-pocket guys since Kramer. I think the steals per game stats for the team have been down nearly every season since he graduated.

 

[lbodel]

Our steals are way down from years past. I don't know if that is because we don't have athletic players, no Kenny Lowe or Chris Kramer types, or the rule changes have prevented us from employing the hacking/clawing defense we used to have that generated the steals, or perhaps a combo of all the above, but except for picking off an errant pass, we don't create a lot of TOs. Apologies for that massive run-on sentence.

I don't think we take as many risks as we used to, in addition to the hand-check focus. I think we're playing better overall defense because of it (in general over the past couple years - although I think we've needed to button up our defense this conference season and still need to), even though our steals are down.

Also, our big guys do not play very aggressive defense and teams also do not operate a lot in the post because of our large presence (and you see a lot of turnovers occur in the paint).