OT: Dakich vs. Frank Kaminsky
- Thread starter nagemj02
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It's not going to change by rewarding them for making poor decisions. If their parents allow them to go play for a coach that runs a basketball factory and doesn't care beyond keeping them eligible then that's on the parents. If the athlete doesn't care about learning anything beyond playing basketball or football, that's on the athlete (note once they arrive at college they are no longer a kid and therefore need to accept responsibility for their actions). If they move back to a bad area after college then that is a bad decision.
How about if you're a parent you encourage them to play for a coach that has a history of producing players that get real degrees? How about if you're an athlete you realize the pros are a dream and make a decision to pursue a real degree and value your academics? How about if you're leaving college and you come from a bad area with little opportunity then you choose to pursue a life in a better area after you're done playing?
If the demand for athletes time is so great that they are unable to succeed, pass and graduate with more difficult majors then I would place the fault on the school. College is not easy for quite a few of these kids and a portion are only there because being athletic allowed them to do so. Maybe that is the only way they can afford to go to college then they arrive with dreams of obtaining a worthy degree to find out just how difficult or impossible it will be for them to carry their weight on the field or court and obtain said degree at the same time. They know they were brought in for sports and that is going to be their top focus because coaches and fans value the product on the field/court more than what they are doing in the classroom. I don't think they should get paid but I can also see how they are being limited with some of their opportunities or taken advantage of.
Newsflash. Success is hard.
I get the time restrictions on scholarship athletes but the flip side of that is that the football and basketball players live on campus year-around too and can spread their class work over the summer as well. You see many of these grad transfers graduating now after 2 or 3 years. As someone who saw nothing but 18 and 21 hour semesters as an upperclassmen I guess I'm not all that sympathetic to someone who caps out at 12 hours and gets their schooling paid for even if they do have to dedicate a significant amount of time to the scholarship activity.
I know there's a bunch of you that buy every sob story you're fed because, as one of the few things I agree 100% with Dakich on, it's cool to play the victim today. It's cool to whine about what's not fair, what you didn't get that you think you deserve, and how the people that are better off than you are evil and don't deserve more. It's not cool to work hard and overcome obstacles anymore. We rely on society to remove every obstacle for us instead and when it doesn't happen we whine rather than overcome.
Newsflash. Not everybody is brought up in a positive household with parents who hold children accountable or can properly stress the importance of a college education. Nor do these parents teach the kids how to succeed. A good portion of today's youth isn't taught by their parents the same thing you bitch about them not knowing. It's on the rest of the community and university to fill this gap and provide the information and motivation to encourage success. There is and should be a moral obligation to everybody involved with these young men's and women's lives to teach them how to be successful in life. I'm not siding with Nigel Hayes or Frank Kaminski, but the education system as a whole is failing kids across the United States. I can see you would rather blame the victim over those who are responsible for putting the current system in place where so many fail.
Well I disagree. It's ultimately on the person to decide they want better for themselves than what they were raised. Is it hard to buck that? Yea, it's damn hard. But nobody can do it for them.
Very few times in my life have a made a bad major decision out of ignorance. When I've screwed something up, it's almost always that I knew better but thought I could cut a corner or let emotions get in the way of common sense. You can encourage these kids to make good choices all day long. I do support that and act on it when I have the opportunity. It is still their choice to make. Just like me, I don't think they are making bad choices out of ignorance.
This isn't about you nor is it about me. You are trying to pass off knowledge on a subject you don't understand and can't understand because you haven't experienced what some of these student athletes have with their upbringings.
There are times when you are pretty good posting and times when you are a complete idiot. I'm the same way but this is the latter of the two. There is a problem with your initial premise that parents choose which school the athlete decides on. Most f these kids are 18/19 years old and don't need their parents permission to select a school.
You should also read the part in Alford's book where he describes how he was told by Knight what would be his major. Matt Painter has made no secret that he doesn't want kids to major in Engineering or Pharmacy or any of the other difficult majors. You may not know this but even with a redshirt year, it still took Matt Waddell six years to earn a five year degree using summers and all.
It's simple. One person cannot experience everything that hundreds of thousands of students athletes have growing up.
A lot of jobs require a college degree. Even if it does not prepare them for a specific job, that doesn't mean it does not help. Most make connections through their playing job or proudly claim their collegiate accomplishments on their resumés. I agree that liberal arts degrees do nothing to prepare somebody for the future and are not for many existing jobs, but there is still value.
1. I don't think I said that parents choose the school, although I'm sure that's happened before. I'd say that they still have significant influence though. Many of these kids choose before they turn 18 and are still minors. If you read the story the other day about Romeo Langford, his dad is not even let college coaches contact him directly right now and that's a kid that will probably make a college choice later this year.
2. I read Alford's book. Although it was a long time ago that I read it, my recollection is that Alford was the one who didn't really know what he wanted to do and was saying he wanted to major in Physical Education or something and it was Knight who told him it would be Business. Feel free to correct that if I'm wrong because I read the book many years ago but that's how I remember it. That's really the exact opposite of what we're complaining about here. And if any athlete really wants to major in something useful and the coach recruiting him has a big problem with it, that's where this decision making thing comes into play. If I want to major in pharmacy and Coach Painter won't let me do that (which btw I thought is a 6-year degree for everyone now) then maybe I give Coach Holtmann a call and talk to him.
We all have choices to make. I just don't believe these athletes should be exempt from the consequences of their decisions just like every other college kid isn't.
You make it sounds like every student athlete has the same background and frankly that's just ignorant. There are plenty of athletes that come from privileged backgrounds. You have no idea what my background is either.
I never said anything about them all having the same background. My point was that nobody can know everybody's background because they are so varying at both ends of the spectrum therefore it is impossible for a single person to have actually experienced what everybody else has. Your background has absolutely nothing to do with it because no matter what difficulties you experienced or didn't experience, they are not going to be the same compared to every other student athlete.
Well if you're saying that I can't understand every individual because I'm not them then fine. But then you have to admit the same thing so when you generalize the situation as athletes who are exploited and don't have the ability to make their own decisions based on their background, that doesn't hold any water and shouldn't be used as a justification that they are owed something more.
Some jobs require a college education, regardless of the major. But it isn't just about the education. It's also about name recognition and connections. Many players land a decent gig right out of college. Also, picking a general studies major is on the player. Not all players go for the cake majors. Some go for the education and take full advantage of the scholarship.
you were dying to know mb1's opinion.
he also said
“Member [sic] of the John Purdue Club would not like the money going into athletes’ pockets beyond the cost of their attendance at Purdue. Some donors already are concerned about the level of services Purdue provides its student-athletes. MB and his colleagues have to explain why the services are appropriate. He believes that if he didn’t have those conversations, donors might act unilaterally and reduce the amount of money they give.”
https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...e-athletes-pay-purdue-big-ten-ncaa/100553590/
he also said
“Member [sic] of the John Purdue Club would not like the money going into athletes’ pockets beyond the cost of their attendance at Purdue. Some donors already are concerned about the level of services Purdue provides its student-athletes. MB and his colleagues have to explain why the services are appropriate. He believes that if he didn’t have those conversations, donors might act unilaterally and reduce the amount of money they give.”
https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...e-athletes-pay-purdue-big-ten-ncaa/100553590/
A couple of things not talked about much. Schools provide training facilities and trainers, and medical care for athletes. I'd like to see an athlete pay for his own personal trainer, membership in some Golds gym, and for his own medical care.
A second area is transportation costs. Athletes stay in nice hotels. Perhaps schools could start reserving the Local Motel 6, or let their paid athlete pay his own hotel cost. And for those away games, rather than flying, maybe the school will charter a bus, or allow the athlete to buy his own transportation.
And finally, a lot is said about coaches salaries, and how coaches make a lot of money and benefit off the athletes. But what is not being said is that many of those wealthy coaches receive their salaries from private clubs and donors and alumni rather than from the school. Schools are really not paying as much to coaches as is being reported. The pay to coaches would not be controlled.
I have no problem with a player signing autographs and selling them. I do have a problem in paying a RB more money than an offensive lineman, and a basketball player being paid more than a swimmer. Purdue had several Olympian divers. should a college football or basketball player be paid more than a Gold medal diver?
A second area is transportation costs. Athletes stay in nice hotels. Perhaps schools could start reserving the Local Motel 6, or let their paid athlete pay his own hotel cost. And for those away games, rather than flying, maybe the school will charter a bus, or allow the athlete to buy his own transportation.
And finally, a lot is said about coaches salaries, and how coaches make a lot of money and benefit off the athletes. But what is not being said is that many of those wealthy coaches receive their salaries from private clubs and donors and alumni rather than from the school. Schools are really not paying as much to coaches as is being reported. The pay to coaches would not be controlled.
I have no problem with a player signing autographs and selling them. I do have a problem in paying a RB more money than an offensive lineman, and a basketball player being paid more than a swimmer. Purdue had several Olympian divers. should a college football or basketball player be paid more than a Gold medal diver?
A kid can always go out and get a job after graduating high school and not go to college. I heard many people actually do this. Working in the mines is an honorable profession. Disney pays more than minimum wage. If you don't believe a full college scholarship is enough money, just go out into the real world and try to find a job that will pay a high school graduate $25-40,000 a year. How much does Golds Gym or Pep Boys pay?
With the NBA DL slowly becoming a more and more of a minor league where NBA teams can develop players, I'd like to see them go to the major league baseball draft model. So if you decide you are going to college, then you are actually going to college. Otherwise you declare and go NBADL or JUCO.
The basic categories of players eligible to be drafted are:
- High school players, if they have graduated from high school and have not yet attended college or junior college;
- College players, from four-year colleges who have either completed their junior or senior years or are at least 21 years old; and
- Junior college players, regardless of how many years of school they have completed
It's not the NCAA that is making the players wait a year before becoming draft eligible. The NBA makes that rule because it benefits the NBA for the players to build a name for themselves in college before entering their league and it helps protect the league from itself by weeding out a few kids that might get drafted based on potential out of high school but can't keep it together for a year to get to draft eligibility.
We now have a semi-pro team in our community/area made up basically of former college and juco players. I can't believe the pay is very high. They are part of the NABL. The league started with 4-8 teams last year and has now expanded to about 19 teams with future teams projected to join in the next two years. if you consider the D league as AAA, this league would be high A / AA. the teams are located in major cities like Indy(the Indiana revolution - plays in Muncie), Dallas, Chicago, Detroit, Birmingham, Savanah, Atlanta.
my point is I can see minor league basketball developing much the same way independent minor league baseball leagues developed. And independent minor league baseball teams/leagues are becoming accepted as part of the minor leagues of baseball.
As independent leagues grow, I can see they might start including high school graduates. They already have former juco players. I can also see the NBA D league changing its rules to include high school graduates.
my point is I can see minor league basketball developing much the same way independent minor league baseball leagues developed. And independent minor league baseball teams/leagues are becoming accepted as part of the minor leagues of baseball.
As independent leagues grow, I can see they might start including high school graduates. They already have former juco players. I can also see the NBA D league changing its rules to include high school graduates.
I think that would be ideal. I still doubt that very many athletes would choose that over a college scholarship.
