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OL and DL

Roeder

Junior
Jun 21, 2007
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Hazel's last 3 classes which would be the Jr and Sr lineman on team now consisted of some of these names:

Fred Brown
Larry Wells
Chazmyn Turner
Shayne Henley
Tim Faison
Ben Makiwski
Jalen Neal
Rob Simmons
Austin Larkin
Ethan Smart
Jalen Jackson
Allen Daniels

None of these guys are in the current 2 deeps and not sure if any are still in the program. This is a tremendous amount of misses for a program to overcome. I would have loved to see another grad transfer OL this year like everyone else, but this was the year where the trenches were going to take a big hit. I just hope people realize what is going on here and are patient as these young guys develop.
 
Hazel's last 3 classes which would be the Jr and Sr lineman on team now consisted of some of these names:

Fred Brown
Larry Wells
Chazmyn Turner
Shayne Henley
Tim Faison
Ben Makiwski
Jalen Neal
Rob Simmons
Austin Larkin
Ethan Smart
Jalen Jackson
Allen Daniels

None of these guys are in the current 2 deeps and not sure if any are still in the program. This is a tremendous amount of misses for a program to overcome. I would have loved to see another grad transfer OL this year like everyone else, but this was the year where the trenches were going to take a big hit. I just hope people realize what is going on here and are patient as these young guys develop.
This is year three and it really shouldn't be this bad up front.
 
There should be a lifting of the limit for rebuilding programs. 25 recruits is enough for a team like Alabama or OSU, but our team needed more to get linemen in.
 
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This is year three and it really shouldn't be this bad up front.

I disagree. Hazel's recruiting was never good and was terrible at the end. You need upper classmen and depth on the lines to compete with traditional powers like TCU. You can only patch things for so long, and True Sophs, RS Freshman, and True Freshman on the line that this staff recruited can't realistically be expected to carry this team yet. Alabama doesn't even do that with their young 4 and 5 stars.
 
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I disagree. Hazel's recruiting was never good and was terrible at the end. You need upper classmen and depth on the lines to compete with traditional powers like TCU. You can only patch things for so long, and True Sophs, RS Freshman, and True Freshman on the line that this staff recruited can't realistically be expected to carry this team yet. Alabama doesn't even do that with their young 4 and 5 stars.
I agree with you about playing the young guys. I'm at a loss when they can't get a yard here and there. They run into the boundary and two or more defenders are slamming King to the ground. They got a penalty, but the penetration was overwhelming.
 
our defensive line got owned by their offensive line. the size difference was huge. we cant stop any good running team with the cast we have out there now. same with the offensive line. i am not sure sindelar would have made much difference as there just wasnt any time to throw and our running game sucks
 
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Football is and has always been about line play. We have seen this year’s OLine do an average job of pass protection but with way below average run blocking! The TCU and Nevada games magnified just how weak our line is and was. Time of possession was a contributing factor to our DLine wearing down last night and am not as concerned as I have been with the OLine.

Injuries to the players out of action continues to take it’s toll on the Boilers. Still pissed about who called the QB draw in last week’s game that ultimately sidelined Sindelar. Thought at the time when it happened that it was more serious then with his glassed over eyes, maybe the reports during the week was meant to keep TCU guessing.

If, when, Neal, Worship, Fuller, McCann, Sparks etc, return, we have a week off that is coming at a good time, Brohm knows who is in or out for the Minny game which is a BIG one and hopefully will make the adjustments to his lineup, formations, etc to get the Boilers back on track!
 
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But here's the problem - when do you expect it to get better?

The 2020 class currently has 3 OL commitments. 1 two star, 2 three star

The 2019 class had 4 OL commitments, 2 two star, 2 three star

It's not like our future is bright, we haven't recruited good offensive linemen.
Hartwig is a high 3 star with tons of other high major offers.

Byz also has many great offers and is high 3 star.

I would argue we have recruited good offensive lineman’s

Cam Craig is a good offensive lineman
 
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Football is and has always been about line play. We have seen this year’s OLine do an average job of pass protection but with way below average run blocking! The TCU and Nevada games magnified just how weak our line is and was. Time of possession was a contributing factor to our DLine wearing down last night and am not as concerned as I have been with the OLine.

Injuries to the players out of action continues to take it’s toll on the Boilers. Still pissed about who called the QB draw in last week’s game that ultimately sidelined Sindelar. Thought at the time when it happened that it was more serious then with his glassed over eyes that was being reported to keep TCU guessing.

If, when, Neal, Worship, Fuller, McCann, Sparks etc, return, we have a week off that is coming at a good time, Brohm knows who is in or out for the Minny game which is a BIG one and hopefully will make the adjustments to his lineup, formations, etc to get the Boilers back on track!
Good post.
 
Eric Miller held up well in the few snaps he took last night. He’s still undersized, however he has a bright future at LT.

McKenna has a shot at being pretty decent, however he needs a lot more work in the offseason to push the DL.

Bramel gets beat to the outside quite a bit. I haven’t seen enough to know what the issue is there.
 
Hartwig is a high 3 star with tons of other high major offers.

Byz also has many great offers and is high 3 star.

I would argue we have recruited good offensive lineman’s

Cam Craig is a good offensive lineman

This was going to be my exact question this morning after making an 8-hour drive round trip as well. I was at the game last night and wondered the same thing. So what if we get ES back this year, we will have the same people on the line next year (minus McCann) and not sure where the talent is coming from. I get people develop, etc. BUT to play in the Big 10 and play teams like we played yesterday I’m not so sure we’re starting off with the type of OL recruits to get us there. Take a look at the other P5 offers from our last 2 OL recruiting classes and most are full of MAC level school with Illinois or Missouri thrown in for a couple guys. You can count the other Big 10 offers on one hand and. This should tell you something.
 
I am wondering about the OL and DL coaches. I really can't see how the OL can't do better pass protection and run blocking and DL can't stop the run. It's not like the players are all 1 star or walkons.
 
This was going to be my exact question this morning after making an 8-hour drive round trip as well. I was at the game last night and wondered the same thing. So what if we get ES back this year, we will have the same people on the line next year (minus McCann) and not sure where the talent is coming from. I get people develop, etc. BUT to play in the Big 10 and play teams like we played yesterday I’m not so sure we’re starting off with the type of OL recruits to get us there. Take a look at the other P5 offers from our last 2 OL recruiting classes and most are full of MAC level school with Illinois or Missouri thrown in for a couple guys. You can count the other Big 10 offers on one hand and. This should tell you something.
Hartwig is the 19th rated Guard.
 
This was going to be my exact question this morning after making an 8-hour drive round trip as well. I was at the game last night and wondered the same thing. So what if we get ES back this year, we will have the same people on the line next year (minus McCann) and not sure where the talent is coming from. I get people develop, etc. BUT to play in the Big 10 and play teams like we played yesterday I’m not so sure we’re starting off with the type of OL recruits to get us there. Take a look at the other P5 offers from our last 2 OL recruiting classes and most are full of MAC level school with Illinois or Missouri thrown in for a couple guys. You can count the other Big 10 offers on one hand and. This should tell you something.
I kind of wonder the same thing. Brohm has really raised the recruiting last couple classes but has mainly been stockpiling skill players and some good DBs. I don’t understand why a lineman wouldn’t want to come to Purdue. Especially when their chances of playing early are pretty good if they are good enough. I mean Brohm is highly regarded by about everyone a really good offensive coach. And he is getting a lot of talented guys at skill spots. Why wouldn’t good offensive linemen sign up knowing they could be the missing piece to something potentially great?
 
Need to get a more likeable DL or OL coach to recruit higher rated. Only thing I can think of not sure why we cant make a break through on those positions.
 
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This was going to be my exact question this morning after making an 8-hour drive round trip as well. I was at the game last night and wondered the same thing. So what if we get ES back this year, we will have the same people on the line next year (minus McCann) and not sure where the talent is coming from. I get people develop, etc. BUT to play in the Big 10 and play teams like we played yesterday I’m not so sure we’re starting off with the type of OL recruits to get us there. Take a look at the other P5 offers from our last 2 OL recruiting classes and most are full of MAC level school with Illinois or Missouri thrown in for a couple guys. You can count the other Big 10 offers on one hand and. This should tell you something.
Getting bigger and stronger is where this line will improve. You see it every year in college football where linemen emerge because of their growth and maturity from the previous year. They may not be Big Ten ready coming in, but the strength coach is their best friend in the off-season.
 
Getting bigger and stronger is where this line will improve. You see it every year in college football where linemen emerge because of their growth and maturity from the previous year. They may not be Big Ten ready coming in, but the strength coach is their best friend in the off-season.


Very, VERY few OL are ready to play for P5 programs when they come in as FR.

Most programs (Wisconsin, Iowa, et al) redshirt their incoming OL. Then those OL will get some PT, but generally do not start until their SO or JR season.

This isn't rocket science. Anyone claiming otherwise really doesn't understand the position.
 
Getting bigger and stronger is where this line will improve. You see it every year in college football where linemen emerge because of their growth and maturity from the previous year. They may not be Big Ten ready coming in, but the strength coach is their best friend in the off-season.


Very, VERY few OL are ready to play for P5 programs when they come in as FR.

Most programs (Wisconsin, Iowa, et al) redshirt their incoming OL. Then those OL will get some PT, but generally do not start until their SO or JR season.

This isn't rocket science. Anyone claiming otherwise really doesn't understand the position.

Agree and to run block consistently and effectively you need some men with a nasty streak in them!
 
Hartwig is a high 3 star with tons of other high major offers.

Byz also has many great offers and is high 3 star.

I would argue we have recruited good offensive lineman’s

Cam Craig is a good offensive lineman

There's one "solid" offensive line recruit and a couple decent ones. Half of the OL recruits in the last 2 classes (current and last year) don't have P-5 offers.

An offensive line is 5 people. And you need to have depth as they tend not to play every snap, and there also tends to be injuries.

I'm not sure how you can argue that there seems to be "help on the way" with either young guys on the team now or committed players.

It's not to say there's no good players, but an offensive line is a unit. It's like when Bernard Pollard was a safety - he was one of the best in the country, yet we had a terrible pass defense.
 
Of the 18 offensive linemen listed on the roster 12 are freshmen and sophomores eligibility wise. Of the upperclassmen 2 really play and at least one is a walk-on who likely won't get into games. It's okay to use underclassmen on the line (both lines actually) but a recipe for failure to have most spots manned by them. Yes, some successful lines will include underclassmen but they're usually mixed in with multiple other starters who've had 2 to 3 years to develop in a program. I expect Purdue's line to get incrementally better as this season unfolds then a larger jump into next season.
 
Hazel's last 3 classes which would be the Jr and Sr lineman on team now consisted of some of these names:

Fred Brown
Larry Wells
Chazmyn Turner
Shayne Henley
Tim Faison
Ben Makiwski
Jalen Neal
Rob Simmons
Austin Larkin
Ethan Smart
Jalen Jackson
Allen Daniels

None of these guys are in the current 2 deeps and not sure if any are still in the program. This is a tremendous amount of misses for a program to overcome. I would have loved to see another grad transfer OL this year like everyone else, but this was the year where the trenches were going to take a big hit. I just hope people realize what is going on here and are patient as these young guys develop.
You make very good points. My feelings were expressed after the game out of frustration for what I thought was going to be a great game. We are close, but have one more year to go
 
Eric Miller held up well in the few snaps he took last night. He’s still undersized, however he has a bright future at LT.

McKenna has a shot at being pretty decent, however he needs a lot more work in the offseason to push the DL.

Bramel gets beat to the outside quite a bit. I haven’t seen enough to know what the issue is there.
Eric Miller undersized? 6’7” and 310 lbs.
 
Is the defensive line really a problem? I thought the defense held up pretty well given the circumstances. TCU had the ball for 40 minutes and we ran 6 guys in the box nearly the entire game. One of those 6 guys was an undersized linebacker.

Who don't you believe is a legit defensive lineman?
Jones?
Watts?
Johnson?
Karlaftis?

The facts are they were 8/24 passing the ball for 75 yards but ran for 346 yards. We more often then not lined up 6 exhausted guys in the box. Its not a surprise they had success running the ball.

I don't think TCU is as good as people make them out to be on this board. I believe if Sindelar had played it would have been an entirely different game.
 
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Is the defensive line really a problem? I thought the defense held up pretty well given the circumstances. TCU had the ball for 40 minutes and we ran 6 guys in the box nearly the entire game. One of those 6 guys was an undersized linebacker.

Who don't you believe is a legit defensive lineman?
Jones?
Watts?
Johnson?
Karlaftis?

The facts are they were 8/24 passing the ball for 75 yards but ran for 346 yards. We more often then not lined up 6 exhausted guys in the box. Its not a surprise they had success running the ball.

I don't think TCU is as good as people make them out to be on this board. I believe if Sindelar had played it would have been an entirely different game.


got to be able to keep your defense off the field.
 
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Hazel's last 3 classes which would be the Jr and Sr lineman on team now consisted of some of these names:

Fred Brown
Larry Wells
Chazmyn Turner
Shayne Henley
Tim Faison
Ben Makiwski
Jalen Neal
Rob Simmons
Austin Larkin
Ethan Smart
Jalen Jackson
Allen Daniels

None of these guys are in the current 2 deeps and not sure if any are still in the program. This is a tremendous amount of misses for a program to overcome. I would have loved to see another grad transfer OL this year like everyone else, but this was the year where the trenches were going to take a big hit. I just hope people realize what is going on here and are patient as these young guys develop.
Holy shit this is an awful post.

Henley was a JUCO and graduated
Makowslki was a long snapper for 4 years and graduated
Jalen Neal was a Juco and would be out of eligibility
Rob Simmons was a JUCO and would be out of eligibility
Austin Larkin was a JUCO and graduated
Ethan Smart was a JUCO (and a brohm recruit) and graduated.

Jalen Jackson was a Brohm recruit
Allen Daniels was a brohm recruit.

That leaves Fred Brown, Larry Wells, Turner and Faison as players who might have used up scholarships.

For those clamoring for Brohm to recruit JUCOs, years like this where the lack of development forces you to play RS freshman too early are the damage you do.
 
Holy shit this is an awful post.

Henley was a JUCO and graduated
Makowslki was a long snapper for 4 years and graduated
Jalen Neal was a Juco and would be out of eligibility
Rob Simmons was a JUCO and would be out of eligibility
Austin Larkin was a JUCO and graduated
Ethan Smart was a JUCO (and a brohm recruit) and graduated.

Jalen Jackson was a Brohm recruit
Allen Daniels was a brohm recruit.

That leaves Fred Brown, Larry Wells, Turner and Faison as players who might have used up scholarships.

For those clamoring for Brohm to recruit JUCOs, years like this where the lack of development forces you to play RS freshman too early are the damage you do.
Yes! Finally someone gets it.
 
Not a fan of the source, but this brief article summarizes recruiting offensive linemen very well:

https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...eorgia-offensive-line-recruiting-uga-evaluate

I would argue that the defensive side is similar - perhaps not exactly.

I think Purdue is "getting by" while following a similar mentality and will be in a better position in 1-2 years, but questions about the assistant coaches do linger.
 
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Is the defensive line really a problem? I thought the defense held up pretty well given the circumstances. TCU had the ball for 40 minutes and we ran 6 guys in the box nearly the entire game. One of those 6 guys was an undersized linebacker.

Who don't you believe is a legit defensive lineman?
Jones?
Watts?
Johnson?
Karlaftis?

The facts are they were 8/24 passing the ball for 75 yards but ran for 346 yards. We more often then not lined up 6 exhausted guys in the box. Its not a surprise they had success running the ball.

I don't think TCU is as good as people make them out to be on this board. I believe if Sindelar had played it would have been an entirely different game.
That’s exactly right. There’s no way the world we can give a team of all for that many minutes in the first 2 1/2 quarters and expect not to just completely fall apart and the tail end of the game. Exhaustion hits everybody it doesn’t matter how good of shape you’re in. Eventually you hit the wall
 
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I believe our line will improve. however the same can be said about the lines of the teams we play. While we will be better than this year's current Purdue line, will we be better than next year's UW and Iowa, Nebraska, and NW line ? All football teams improve as the season progresses. it's not like ours will improve while others will not.

I like the linemen Brohm recruited this year. I liked the linemen brohm recruited last year, but he didn't sign the two elite guys he was after. Signing Britt would have been nice. I thought the linemen he recruited two years ago in Beach's class were more of an afterthought.

Looking around, all the big schools usually redshirt their players. But looking at the depleted talent on our team, many of those players red shirting at places like OSU and UW probably would have started this year at Purdue. I'm not saying inexperienced talent should start over experience. I'm saying inexperienced talent should start over players who are obviously not getting the job done. We need to develop our linemen faster. Tiller's teams were very good at developing linemen.

When you look at the teams that win 8-10 games, their most talented players and strength are usually their linemen, not their wide receivers. having a good line enables your team the ability to keep your defense off the field, and run out the clock. It also gives your QB time to read the defense and throw to his best option, and also make those 3rd and 1 plays that keep drives alive. I have doubts that either Fuller or Worship's return will improve our running game.

Beach, Stickford and Washington were all part of Brohm's first recruiting class. They all redshirted, and are listed as sophomores. however, this is actually their third year at Purdue. All three were listed as very low 3 stars ad 2 stars on some sites.. I'll ask a dumb but pointed question. How much were they expected to learn and develop? Will we have to wait another year when they become juniors to expect them to be capable linemen? Admittedly, Beach had an injury. but this is not their second year. It's their third year. Shouldn't they have received some experience last year ? Going forward, how much should we expect? or should we expect Miller, McKenna, and Bramel to overtake them ?

in defense of Brohm, he recruited Kinnard, Boateng and Britt who all would have been great additions to our o-line. and he signed Charles Allen, who left the team. All of those 4 would have made a difference. So Brohm and his coaches have an eye for talent. but they need to do a better job of convincing them that Purdue is the place for them. they didn't go elsewhere because of a potential lack of playing time. Kinnard, Britt and Boateng all went to teams with better winning records. The idea of selling recruits on playing time didn't motivate them enough to come to Purdue.

I'm also not saying we should beat out OSU, Mich, Alabama, ND, and Clemson for talented players. But I believe if we aspire to be as good as Iowa and UW, we also need to be able to sign the same level of linemen as they do. We also should be able to out recruit schools like UK, IU U of I, ISU, Minn, MSU and NW for talent . losing out on Knight and Cronk to IU still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I felt positive both players wanted to come to Purdue.

I like our future. But I would like it a lot better if our current coaching staff could develop our current linemen like tiller's coaching staff did.
 
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