Okay, I ask nothing but your honesty...your feelings

[TwinDegrees2]

Had PU made the Elite 8 and lost, would it have made it any different than the loss to TT?

How about the FF and a loss in the first game?

Or how about losing in the final game?

I've been around sports my entire life...a long time...and I think the loss closest to the big trophy is always the hardest. There are no moral victories.

My guess, had we lost in the Final game, we'd have had jumpers and we'd still have folks blaming Painter for losing that game.

They'd be lined up two deep on this one: https://bridgehunter.com/in/tippecanoe/19010/

 

[cprh9u]

Some coaches have the ability to take a team further than others, period. Yes, it would have made a difference going to the Elite 8. Why, as it's only 1 game? Because in 12 or 13 years, CMP has never sniffed that game. Making it there would show some sort of progress.

 

[Wolegib]

I would have been ok with a Final 4 loss.

I relate our season to also recruiting. Selling Purdue to a recruit is a lot easier if you can say we were a final 4 team. Look at some of Purdue's 2019 targets. Once again we're battling IU and MSU for couple of elite players. if we were a final 4 team, I would predict we'd probably win them over to come to Purdue.

Making the elite 8 would have been nice, but it's not really that much better than sweet 16.

 

[BoilerMaker P]

Yes, it would have marked a milestone for the program (first e8 in 18 years) and given this team (especially the seniors) much more of a "transformational" identity as the team that broke through the sweet 16 barrier.

 

[Born Boiler]

Elite Eight would be one small step for Purdue ... one giant leap for Painter.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Had PU made the Elite 8 and lost, would it have made it any different than the loss to TT?

How about the FF and a loss in the first game?

Or how about losing in the final game?

I've been around sports my entire life...a long time...and I think the loss closest to the big trophy is always the hardest. There are no moral victories.

My guess, had we lost in the Final game, we'd have had jumpers and we'd still have folks blaming Painter for losing that game.

They'd be lined up two deep on this one: https://bridgehunter.com/in/tippecanoe/19010/

Yes, an elite eight would be quantifiable progress. A FF would be more quantifiable progress.

Ask Butler fans if they would rather have lost in the sweet sixteen those 2 years instead of going to the final game. Spoiler alert: they wouldn’t.

 

[icewind7]

As an engineer, I believe in data.. (thing will be clear to us once you process a large amount of data) because data don't lie.

However, I also believe in luck. Yes, some people has more luck than others. It's called the destiny.

 

[Wolegib]

as for the difference between making the elite 8 verses final 4, just look at Loyola. if they had lost, it would have been remembered by their alumni and fans as a great season. and they would look forward to next year, and people would say - nice run.

However, by making the Final 4, they are now famous throughout college basketball and the U.S. they've become America's team. how can you not like Loyola? Making the final 4 is a quantum leap. Sister Jean is going to get a shoe and her name copyrighted. If this happened at Purdue, Coach Keady might have fashioned a new rug or the comb-over could have become an instant fad. there is ten times the focus and attention on a final 4 team than elite 8. two months from now, people will still be talking about Loyola. But in one week, they will have all but forgotten the teams that were in the elite 8 and lost. Who did Michigan and Loyola beat again to reach the final 4? I've forgotten already.

the biggest difference is being in the final 4 is national. elite 8 is for your alumni and fans.

 

[IndySouthsider]

I would have been ok with a Final 4 loss.

I relate our season to also recruiting. Selling Purdue to a recruit is a lot easier if you can say we were a final 4 team. Look at some of Purdue's 2019 targets. Once again we're battling IU and MSU for couple of elite players. if we were a final 4 team, I would predict we'd probably win them over to come to Purdue.

Making the elite 8 would have been nice, but it's not really that much better than sweet 16.

So we can expect 5* to Loyola now?

 

[IndySouthsider]

as for the difference between making the elite 8 verses final 4, just look at Loyola. if they had lost, it would have been remembered by their alumni and fans as a great season. and they would look forward to next year, and people would say - nice run.

However, by making the Final 4, they are now famous throughout college basketball and the U.S. they've become America's team. how can you not like Loyola? Making the final 4 is a quantum leap. Sister Jean is going to get a shoe and her name copyrighted. If this happened at Purdue, Coach Keady might have fashioned a new rug or the comb-over could have become an instant fad. there is ten times the focus and attention on a final 4 team than elite 8. two months from now, people will still be talking about Loyola. But in one week, they will have all but forgotten the teams that were in the elite 8 and lost. Who did Michigan and Loyola beat again to reach the final 4? I've forgotten already.

the biggest difference is being in the final 4 is national. elite 8 is for your alumni and fans.

Nobody remembers the final four like you claim.

George Mason made a final four then only 1 more tournaments after in the last 12 years.

It’s just a tournament. One that doesn’t require being the best team to win.

 

[FirstDownB]

College basketball is unique in its regard for the final four. It is a significant milestone and a “club” within the coaching community. It means you won an entire region and earned your spot on the final stage.

Give it the tee shirt test. How many elite 8 tee shirts do you see? How many for the final 4?
Every level of advancement counts but some count more than others.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

A healthy Haas and my expectation was E8 at minimum but a great shot at a FF. I dont think we could’ve beat Nova even healthy the way they’re playing now but I would’ve loved a shot at them. Once Haas went down I thought S16 was the minimum.

 

[Wolegib]

Nobody remembers the final four like you claim.

George Mason made a final four then only 1 more tournaments after in the last 12 years.

It’s just a tournament. One that doesn’t require being the best team to win.

I'll bet everyone on the board knows both Butler and IU went to the Final 4. there are some things people remember and talk about forever.

 

[SIBoiler2]

I no longer weigh my Boiler enjoyment with expectations. I've been around long enough to have seen the Boilers in two Rose Bowl and two Final Fours. I've seen more good years than bad years in basketball. This year was one of joy as a fan. These were good young men that had worked together for four years. Never was there a police report or concern about academics. All were exceptional ambassadors for Boiler nation wherever they went. A trip to the FF would have been a suitable reward for them and I regret that they were robbed of that opportunity but I do not regret the season they gave me.

 

[IndySouthsider]

I'll bet everyone on the board knows both Butler and IU went to the Final 4. there are some things people remember and talk about forever.

Can you describe a single play from George Masons 2006 run to the FF?

 

[arcb102000]

VCU made the FF as well IIRC. All I remember is that they lost there and Smart became a well-known name. They haven't sniffed it since.

I wanted to make the FF because it would allow improved recruiting relative to the B1G peers and also shut up (at least for a while) the irrational IU fanbase.

 

[BoilerMaker P]

Can you describe a single play from George Masons 2006 run to the FF?

A single play, no. But I can tell you that they beat North Carolina and UConn in that run. I think his point was that the journey isn't remembered as much as who made it.

Can you describe a single play from Marquette's final four run with Crean? Probably not, but you know they made it. Again, I know Wade had a triple double against Kentucky to get them there and then they got smoked by Kansas, but I still know that Marquette was in the final four.

 

[James J Chitwood]

I’ll be honest. The whole tournament is pure entertainment. It’s no way to determine a champion. It’s not a good way to determine a coach’s or team’s value either. Bruce Weber went from the hotseat to a darling at least as much because his team got to face a team that in no way would’ve qualified as one of the 68 (or even 168) best teams. It’s silliness. I’ll be more honest, there’s a solid chance that Purdue won’t make a Final Four in the next decade. Elite high school talent will rarely don the OG&B even if we have success. Purdue just doesn’t attract that sort of player. It also wouldn’t attract the sort of coach who could attract that sort of player. Matt will consistently put out well-coached young men who should make you proud of our school. Hopefully your year-to-year happiness isn’t determined by a few games played over 3 weekends in March.

 

[Erock_94]

Final Four was the ultimate goal of the season, imo. So elite 8 or sweet 16 no real difference in my book. I think even with Haas, Villanova would have been nearly impossible to get by, so they were screwed either way.

 

[SqueakyClean]

To be honest, when Arizona went down, I somewhat figured that we were not going to make the Final 4. The potential was there (before Haas got hurt), but Arizona losing kinda highlighted the fact that, outside of our Michigan wins, we didn't beat any "elite" teams this year....and even then those Michigan wins were earlier in the season and we played almost perfect games in order to barely win.
So with Haas, I expected an Elite 8, but that was my expected ceiling. When Haas went down, I figured that the sweet 16 was the ceiling. You just can't lose a starter like that and bounce back in one game.

Heck, look at Virginia. They lost a backup and that very well could have been the most significant factor in their historic loss. You have to remember that it is not only the physical part of a player that you lose but the emotional aspect as well. Losing a starter like that is a slap to your psyche. Kind of a "why does the world hate us" mentality. You can try to fight through it, but it is not that easy of a thing to shake off.

So while I was hoping for a little better, I'm not going to beat myself or Painter up for it. Just another one of those "What might have been" moments we've been robbed of.

 

[Wolegib]

Can you describe a single play from George Masons 2006 run to the FF?

NOPE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't recall a single play!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I also can't recall a single play from when Joe Barry Carrol led Purdue to the final 4 either, can you?

But I do know and remember they made it ! And that's what counts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Do Dah Day]

To be honest, when Arizona went down, I somewhat figured that we were not going to make the Final 4. The potential was there (before Haas got hurt), but Arizona losing kinda highlighted the fact that, outside of our Michigan wins, we didn't beat any "elite" teams this year....and even then those Michigan wins were earlier in the season and we played almost perfect games in order to barely win.
So with Haas, I expected an Elite 8, but that was my expected ceiling. When Haas went down, I figured that the sweet 16 was the ceiling. You just can't lose a starter like that and bounce back in one game.

Heck, look at Virginia. They lost a backup and that very well could have been the most significant factor in their historic loss. You have to remember that it is not only the physical part of a player that you lose but the emotional aspect as well. Losing a starter like that is a slap to your psyche. Kind of a "why does the world hate us" mentality. You can try to fight through it, but it is not that easy of a thing to shake off.

So while I was hoping for a little better, I'm not going to beat myself or Painter up for it. Just another one of those "What might have been" moments we've been robbed of.

You may be one of only three posters that I enjoy every post from. Well said and well thought out. Thank you ...

 

[bleedgoldandblack]

Honestly, I think this team had the talent to make it to a FF. I have a problem with how they lost. Whether it’s during the season or during the tournament, just don’t beat yourself.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

I'll bet everyone on the board knows both Butler and IU went to the Final 4. there are some things people remember and talk about forever.

When is the last time IU went to a FF?

 

[BoilerMaker P]

When is the last time IU went to a FF?

I understand your point here, but the answer is 2002 (final game). Additionally, they were there in 1992, 1987 (Champions) and 1981 (Champions). That's four since Purdue's last time in the final four, doesn't really help the case of disappointment in March for Purdue fans.

 

[boiler-deuce]

I understand your point here, but the answer is 2002 (final game). Additionally, they were there in 1992, 1987 (Champions) and 1981 (Champions). That's four since Purdue's last time in the final four, doesn't really help the case of disappointment in March for Purdue fans.

They've had a revolving door at IU. The reason is it's a priority to win titles. They've also never been accused of cheating or being a dirty program (other than the brief Sampson and immediately canned him). How will we feel if they return to the FF or NT before us? I'll be honest, it'll piss me off.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

They've had a revolving door at IU. The reason is it's a priority to win titles. They've also never been accused of cheating or being a dirty program (other than the brief Sampson and immediately canned him). How will we feel if they return to the FF or NT before us? I'll be honest, it'll piss me off.

As it should all of us.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

They've had a revolving door at IU. The reason is it's a priority to win titles. They've also never been accused of cheating or being a dirty program (other than the brief Sampson and immediately canned him). How will we feel if they return to the FF or NT before us? I'll be honest, it'll piss me off.

There were "rumors" that both Davis and Crean "stretched the rules" on recruiting. Allegedly Little Arch wasn't the cleanest guy at Dayton either. When they fired Knight and hired Mike Davis their priority to win went out the door.

 

[boiler-deuce]

There were "rumors" that both Davis and Crean "stretched the rules" on recruiting. Allegedly Little Arch wasn't the cleanest guy at Dayton either. When they fired Knight and hired Mike Davis their priority to win went out the door.

I thought they hired Davis to keep players from leaving. He took them to the title game, so it worked. I haven't heard of anything about Miller and cheating. Not that it isn't possible. LOL. Remember Kendrick and Keady? I have always thought that Kendrick not only screwed himself, but set us back because he was a great recruiter.

 

[Purdue85]

They've had a revolving door at IU. The reason is it's a priority to win titles. They've also never been accused of cheating or being a dirty program (other than the brief Sampson and immediately canned him). How will we feel if they return to the FF or NT before us? I'll be honest, it'll piss me off.

Respectfully disagree.

They've had a revolving door at IU because of immensely poor hires. Keystone Cops-type hires.

Mike Davis should have never been given the job, but to his credit he coached himself into.

Kelvin Sanctions was an idiotic move.

(Dan Dakich? Probably the beset of the post-Knight coaches.)

Tom Crean? That was a desperate hire.

Now Archie Miller. Poor Archie. I really don't think it ends well for him, but we'll see.

 

[Statey]

Nobody remembers the final four like you claim.

George Mason made a final four then only 1 more tournaments after in the last 12 years.

It’s just a tournament. One that doesn’t require being the best team to win.

Says the guy who then goes on to name one of the most recent FF underdog teams... clearly people remember.

Like it or not, their is notoriety, national recognition, whatever for making a Final Four. As others have noted, it also shows progress and dispels the myth that it can't be done at Purdue (or by Painter). There's financial incentives, a it's a great plug recruiting on the recruiting trail, not to mention the free publicity of playing in a 4-team tournament that practically every college basketball fan enjoys.

I'm pretty far from the fire-Painter-yesterday crowd, but to act like a Final Four is insignificant, nobody remembers them, or that there aren't some pretty nice tangible and intangible benefits of making it is just kind of a silly position.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Says the guy who then goes on to name one of the most recent FF underdog teams... clearly people remember.

Like it or not, their is notoriety, national recognition, whatever for making a Final Four. As others have noted, it also shows progress and dispels the myth that it can't be done at Purdue (or by Painter). There's financial incentives, a it's a great plug recruiting on the recruiting trail, not to mention the free publicity of playing in a 4-team tournament that practically every college basketball fan enjoys.

I'm pretty far from the fire-Painter-yesterday crowd, but to act like a Final Four is insignificant, nobody remembers them, or that there aren't some pretty nice tangible and intangible benefits of making it is just kind of a silly position.

Winning the FF is significant Statey....but honestly no one remembers the first loser unless they're associated with the program in some way.

 

[Statey]

Winning the FF is significant Statey....but honestly no one remembers the first loser unless they're associated with the program in some way.

Why did you ask for people to share their feelings if you were just going to come around and tell them heir feelings were wrong?

Maybe on a micro level you’re right, but on a macro level making FFs matter. It shows you’re close. That you’re a contender. That you belong in the conversation. Does anybody remember exactly what years Kansas made or isn’t make a FF? No. Do people absolutely know KU has been there and is a threat to do it again? Absolutely, because they’ve seen it enough to know it can be repeated.

You’ve also summarily dismissed the various intangibles I brought up as well. There’s a lot more to making a FF than just being allowed to hang up a piece a cloth in the rafters for it.

 

[PaBoiler78]

Why did you ask for people to share their feelings if you were just going to come around and tell them heir feelings were wrong?

Maybe on a micro level you’re right, but on a macro level making FFs matter. It shows you’re close. That you’re a contender. That you belong in the conversation. Does anybody remember exactly what years Kansas made or isn’t make a FF? No. Do people absolutely know KU has been there and is a threat to do it again? Absolutely, because they’ve seen it enough to know it can be repeated.

You’ve also summarily dismissed the various intangibles I brought up as well. There’s a lot more to making a FF than just being allowed to hang up a piece a cloth in the rafters for it.

my expectations went down as soon as Haas got hurt. Whatever we got after that was gravy. Now prior to that incident , I thought the E8 as the minimum. Still didn't think we'd beat Nova. Luck is also big, look at Mich. who were in a bracket where the 1 and 2 both got knocked out. They are still a really good team but their bracket got easier for them.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Why did you ask for people to share their feelings if you were just going to come around and tell them heir feelings were wrong?

Maybe on a micro level you’re right, but on a macro level making FFs matter. It shows you’re close. That you’re a contender. That you belong in the conversation. Does anybody remember exactly what years Kansas made or isn’t make a FF? No. Do people absolutely know KU has been there and is a threat to do it again? Absolutely, because they’ve seen it enough to know it can be repeated.

You’ve also summarily dismissed the various intangibles I brought up as well. There’s a lot more to making a FF than just being allowed to hang up a piece a cloth in the rafters for it.

Wasn't trying to deny your statements Statey. Making the FF has a loto of intangibles, many of which you brought up, and your strawman of Kansas was spot on. But luck or bad luck can be the determining factor, as with the injury to Haas. My guess is that folks will remember that fall and subsequent injury to Haas five years from now than will remember who the runner up is this year, unless that runner up is Loyola.