We're obviously a little too deep in the weeds here...there is a lot of fun to be had in the technical differences of defensive schemes...but if you just need a win today, then yes, Nick Holt absolutely has some 3-4 background....most coaches do.
Official T.J. McCollum To Purdue
- Thread starter BoilerInChiTown
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We're obviously a little too deep in the weeds here...there is a lot of fun to be had in the technical differences of defensive schemes...but if you just need a win today, then yes, Nick Holt absolutely has some 3-4 background....most coaches do.
Through 22 minutes of the Alabama game:
WKU base defense has 3 guys with their hand in the dirt.
A LBer is lined up usually standing. He has rushed the passer twice as often as he has fallen back in coverage. He had his hand in the dirt twice, once standing up and falling back into coverage
A few times they had 2 down lineman, 4 LBer and 5 DBs
Actually heck of a good game. WKU just had a few mistakes that's killing them
WKU base defense has 3 guys with their hand in the dirt.
A LBer is lined up usually standing. He has rushed the passer twice as often as he has fallen back in coverage. He had his hand in the dirt twice, once standing up and falling back into coverage
A few times they had 2 down lineman, 4 LBer and 5 DBs
Actually heck of a good game. WKU just had a few mistakes that's killing them
Just flipped through the first Q of that game....are you implying that is anything other than a base 4-3 D?
I'm with you on this. I just watched, again, the Alabama game but this time only the first two defensive drives and not one single time did they run a 4-3. On every play but one it was a 3-4, and on that one play it was a 2-something. Won't get into the weeds of variations of the 3-4 they ran, but the point of this is that the base defense is obviously not a 4-3.
This guy just won't give up on saying his base is a 4-3 no matter how much proof contrary to that fact is laid out.
That was one of Alabama's hardest fought games this past year. WK gave them a lot more than they were expecting, that's for sure.
This got weirdly personal...I'm not sure why a football conversation need be that.
Footballwise, do you really see anything different in WKUs base alignment compared to our own in recent years....because it's identical. Have we been running a 3-4?
Weirdly personal? Ok... it seems more like you disagreeing for arguments sake no matter what data has been shown. I've watched multiple games, and even went back to the Alabama game to track the disparity between plays ran in a 4-3 compared to 3-4. After 20 plays and no 4-3 it just wasn't worth it going further. The math is pretty simple. Can you find any articles about his base being a 4-3? Can you point me to a game where they run primarily a 4-3? To be honest, even as of last week, I would have said his base was a 4-3 as well, but after Stacy had an interview with McCollum and him talking about the defense they ran at WK and then looking further into it there is nothing to support that.
Holt's personnel alignment is absolutely nothing similar to last years. Alignment wise there are some similarities to Hudson's first year when he lined up in a 3-4 with a jack LB, but Hudson did not come close to changing scheme/lineup/personnel as much as Holt does. Holt has coached some special defensive teams, especially his time as USC and got a bad rap for his time at Washington. He was fired for his poor defensive play, and yet they finished 5th and 7th that year in the PA
C12 in pass and rush D. We would be doing back flips if we had that kind of year at Purdue.
With his base being a 3-4 it will be hard with the personnel we have, but at this point any scheme will be hard with the lack of D1 talent available to him. His 3-4 defense was discussed on the main board and someone posted the front 3 being Wilson, Neal, and Robinson which I agree with, but who are their backups? Not pretty. LBs are McCollum, Bentley, EZ, and Bailey, which is really good starting 4, but who are the backups? That front 7 can hold their own, but it's a HUGE drop off past the starters.
To your question about any articles that say he runs a 4-3....
http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/...olt-calls-huskies-job-an-awesome-opportunity/
From that article:
"Holt said the defense will be similar to what was run at USC, which was a prostyle 4-3 attack."
Clarification on the defense we ran under Hudson with the stand up DE. It really is a 4-3 in every sense regardless of whether the 4th guys hand is in the dirt or not. I'm not trying to be argumentative...it's just functional football.
In the discussed 3 down 1 up alignment you have 2 DT body types and 2 Edge defender body types with 3 off the ball LBs...all the same in form and function as a 4-3.
This is exactly what Holt was running in the discussed Bama game. Check the players from their roster and position. The even list their depth chart as 2 DE, 2 DT and 3 LBs. They don't differentiate it as anything but a 4-3 base.
I'll certainly agree that he moves his backers around more than we do. I LIKE it.
This is definitely getting very technical and if you have not coached football you may not realize or understand the nuances of the varying schemes. I have coached football for 13 years. I am not going to argue this one way or another, but want to point out some differences.
A TRUE 3-4 defense is a slant/angle defense with 3 defensive linemen in heads up techniques on both offensive tackles and the center. They will slant in a direction that is either pre-determined or called pre-snap by a linebacker. It is a balanced defense, meaning equal numbers to either side of the ball. This is linked below.
http://www.ktgr.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/34defense.png
A 4-3 has many variations, front adjustments, etc. The traditional 4-3 will feature 4 down linemen with hands in the ground in addition to a strong outside backer, inside backer and weak outside backer. It is because of this, people will consider this the only way to play a 4-3. However, often, teams will employ their weak side defensive end as a stand up player in order to either zone blitz or drop them into coverage when necessary. This often takes advantage of a particular skill set or to counter a specific scheme an opponent is running. A typical 4-3 is shown below.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vNBS_lCJ-GI/hqdefault.jpg
The true difference lies in the techniques by which the defensive line play. If they are slanting and angling, it is your traditional 3-4. If they are playing gap responsibilities - evidenced by aligning in shades on offensive linemen instead of being head up - then this is your more traditional 4-3.
Which is it? I'm not going to try to find film and watch and debate this. We'll see in the fall. Regardless, I like what we are going to be bringing defensively and I think it will be flexible to fit around what we have (or don't have). Coach Holt is a good coach with a good track record and I think there will be good things to come.
A TRUE 3-4 defense is a slant/angle defense with 3 defensive linemen in heads up techniques on both offensive tackles and the center. They will slant in a direction that is either pre-determined or called pre-snap by a linebacker. It is a balanced defense, meaning equal numbers to either side of the ball. This is linked below.
http://www.ktgr.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/34defense.png
A 4-3 has many variations, front adjustments, etc. The traditional 4-3 will feature 4 down linemen with hands in the ground in addition to a strong outside backer, inside backer and weak outside backer. It is because of this, people will consider this the only way to play a 4-3. However, often, teams will employ their weak side defensive end as a stand up player in order to either zone blitz or drop them into coverage when necessary. This often takes advantage of a particular skill set or to counter a specific scheme an opponent is running. A typical 4-3 is shown below.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vNBS_lCJ-GI/hqdefault.jpg
The true difference lies in the techniques by which the defensive line play. If they are slanting and angling, it is your traditional 3-4. If they are playing gap responsibilities - evidenced by aligning in shades on offensive linemen instead of being head up - then this is your more traditional 4-3.
Which is it? I'm not going to try to find film and watch and debate this. We'll see in the fall. Regardless, I like what we are going to be bringing defensively and I think it will be flexible to fit around what we have (or don't have). Coach Holt is a good coach with a good track record and I think there will be good things to come.
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