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Offensive Line

Fair point(s)...and, I am not trying to tear anyone down.

Again...I like the kid...a great deal, and, admire how hard he has worked and how hard that he plays...but, I still feel like it is ridiculous that Purdue does not have guys at the position.

I indeed tip my hat to Horvath...more so in that per what I have mentioned a couple of times, he does not have a lot to help him. I tip my hat to Anthrop for that matter...for the same reason(s), and, with the same respect...but, that he is an integral part of the offensive game plan says way more about Purdue and the program than it does him.

I am in the minority I know, but, I missed much of the alleged progress that was made...play calling was not great for much of the game...Purdue has a single legit WR threat...Purdue lacks depth and quality at the RB position...Purdue's OL is still subpar...Purdue has very little talent at LB (and no difference makers)...Purdue has some issues in the secondary still...and, the defense, while better (which was nearly impossible not to be), is still very much a concern.

I am glad that they won certainly...we literally were trying to remember the last time we had seen them win in person as we left the game...the atmosphere was great...guys played hard...but, aside of Bell and Karlaftis, this team has a severe lack of talent...and, if Purdue does not play in a bowl this year, it will be a shame that those two guys did not have a chance to do so during their career given that both had a litany of great offers coming out and chose to go to Purdue thinking that they were going to be a part of something special...they lived up to their end of the bargain...Brohm/Purdue has not.
first, you and I have no beef. My prior post was pretty direct, but that's what happens here at times, as well it should. It's not personal, and it appears you recognize and understand that. Thanks for your response.

Not sure why you're defaulting to the narrative of Brohm hasn't lived up to his end of the bargain. We've analyzed ad nauseum what's happened in the prior seasons, with some pretty spot-on analysis.

We're now one game into this season, with a win against a respectable P5 opponent... an opponent who clearly knew what our strengths and weaknesses were, and whose strengths were perfectly set up to take advantage of some those Purdue weaknesses... still, we prevailed. We showed tremendous resilience. This wasn't a win against Ferris State.

The offense didn't start out great, but through coaching and improved performance we got better throughout the game.

Do we need better performance from our RBs? Definitely. QB? Absolutely. OL? Sure. That can be said for virtually every position/area on O, D, and special teams.

Again... what baffles me (and is a bit of an irritant, admittedly) is that we come out, get a respectable win against a solid team, and we have .... this.

Build. Get better. Play to your strengths and continue to address weaknesses. We ... seem ... to be doing that.

Let's enjoy the win, and find a way to get better each week.
 
first, you and I have no beef. My prior post was pretty direct, but that's what happens here at times, as well it should. It's not personal, and it appears you recognize and understand that. Thanks for your response.

Not sure why you're defaulting to the narrative of Brohm hasn't lived up to his end of the bargain. We've analyzed ad nauseum what's happened in the prior seasons, with some pretty spot-on analysis.

We're now one game into this season, with a win against a respectable P5 opponent... an opponent who clearly knew what our strengths and weaknesses were, and whose strengths were perfectly set up to take advantage of some those Purdue weaknesses... still, we prevailed. We showed tremendous resilience. This wasn't a win against Ferris State.

The offense didn't start out great, but through coaching and improved performance we got better throughout the game.

Do we need better performance from our RBs? Definitely. QB? Absolutely. OL? Sure. That can be said for virtually every position/area on O, D, and special teams.

Again... what baffles me (and is a bit of an irritant, admittedly) is that we come out, get a respectable win against a solid team, and we have .... this.

Build. Get better. Play to your strengths and continue to address weaknesses. We ... seem ... to be doing that.

Let's enjoy the win, and find a way to get better each week.
Agree, no beef(s), and, nothing personal.

I just see it differently is all, which is fine on my end, and, likely on your end as well...despite it being an irritant unfortunately (and, not intentionally).

OSU is hardly any sort of P5 power...they would arguably be a below average team in the B1G...and, Purdue held on for dear life to escape with a win, in large part because of its own shortcomings.

It may have been a respectable win, but, it was anything but an impressive one.

What exactly are Purdue's strengths now that you mention it? They really do not have one on the defensive side of the ball (and, the Dicaco excuse...as valid as it was...no longer exists), aside of a exceptionally talented player in Karlaftis. What about offense? Again, aside of an exceptionally talented player in Bell...and, a couple of quality TEs...what is it that they have as a strength. Even at/with that, if the OL can't provide a running game, and, the QB is constantly under pressure in the passing game, it just further complicates the issue(s). At what point does the staff realize that the OL does not just matter, but, it is important? More importantly, how did that escape them?

I, as much as anyone, want to be on board and be excited about Purdue football and the program...especially for as bad as it was for as long as it was...but, last night looked a whole lot like a lot of other nights...thankfully, Purdue was playing a team that simply was not good enough to capitalize, as, the game was there to be had if they had been.

I have the same concerns that I have had...and, save a bunch of Hazell recruits and Rondale Moore, those are the exact same concerns that I have had for some time. Am I (and others) really supposed to believe that in year 5, that this staff was/is not capable of finding guys that even the likes of Danny Hope and Darrel Hazell did? Money was poured into the program, staff and facilities...it had success and national attention (albeit with Hazell's guys in large part, which, at the time seemed impressive, but, now is bothersome)...and, now, we are celebrating a modestly competent effort and win against a barely modestly quality opponent?

Yes, this team should (and ideally will) get better, but, this team should be better...should be much better...even the clown in Gloomington has had success (fluke or not), and, parlayed that into something in terms of recruiting, coaching, and, national attention. It may fade as Purdue's has...and, he may be the joke that many believe, but, I am not celebrating what I saw last night as any sort of incredible accomplishment...thankfully, Purdue is in a/the bad division of the conference, and, there are still some other inept coaches (i.e., Frost) and teams (Illinois...surprisingly, maybe NW) that will allow it the opportunity to win some games, but, there have been far more impressive coaching jobs at a lot of other conference schools than the one at Purdue...it will be interesting to see if they can sustain it...Purdue did not unfortunately, and, is right now essentially where it was when Brohm/staff arrived...expectations are so low (evidenced by the reactions to last night's win), that, he will have time to fix it...I just am hard pressed to believe that he can/will at this point in that he failed to capitalize on what he had early on...admittedly, I hope that I am wrong...and, if so, then I won't be an irritant.
 
Agree, no beef(s), and, nothing personal.

I just see it differently is all, which is fine on my end, and, likely on your end as well...despite it being an irritant unfortunately (and, not intentionally).

OSU is hardly any sort of P5 power...they would arguably be a below average team in the B1G...and, Purdue held on for dear life to escape with a win, in large part because of its own shortcomings.

It may have been a respectable win, but, it was anything but an impressive one.

What exactly are Purdue's strengths now that you mention it? They really do not have one on the defensive side of the ball (and, the Dicaco excuse...as valid as it was...no longer exists), aside of a exceptionally talented player in Karlaftis. What about offense? Again, aside of an exceptionally talented player in Bell...and, a couple of quality TEs...what is it that they have as a strength. Even at/with that, if the OL can't provide a running game, and, the QB is constantly under pressure in the passing game, it just further complicates the issue(s). At what point does the staff realize that the OL does not just matter, but, it is important? More importantly, how did that escape them?

I, as much as anyone, want to be on board and be excited about Purdue football and the program...especially for as bad as it was for as long as it was...but, last night looked a whole lot like a lot of other nights...thankfully, Purdue was playing a team that simply was not good enough to capitalize, as, the game was there to be had if they had been.

I have the same concerns that I have had...and, save a bunch of Hazell recruits and Rondale Moore, those are the exact same concerns that I have had for some time. Am I (and others) really supposed to believe that in year 5, that this staff was/is not capable of finding guys that even the likes of Danny Hope and Darrel Hazell did? Money was poured into the program, staff and facilities...it had success and national attention (albeit with Hazell's guys in large part, which, at the time seemed impressive, but, now is bothersome)...and, now, we are celebrating a modestly competent effort and win against a barely modestly quality opponent?

Yes, this team should (and ideally will) get better, but, this team should be better...should be much better...even the clown in Gloomington has had success (fluke or not), and, parlayed that into something in terms of recruiting, coaching, and, national attention. It may fade as Purdue's has...and, he may be the joke that many believe, but, I am not celebrating what I saw last night as any sort of incredible accomplishment...thankfully, Purdue is in a/the bad division of the conference, and, there are still some other inept coaches (i.e., Frost) and teams (Illinois...surprisingly, maybe NW) that will allow it the opportunity to win some games, but, there have been far more impressive coaching jobs at a lot of other conference schools than the one at Purdue...it will be interesting to see if they can sustain it...Purdue did not unfortunately, and, is right now essentially where it was when Brohm/staff arrived...expectations are so low (evidenced by the reactions to last night's win), that, he will have time to fix it...I just am hard pressed to believe that he can/will at this point in that he failed to capitalize on what he had early on...admittedly, I hope that I am wrong...and, if so, then I won't be an irritant.
Not sure I'm ready to label anything this early in the season a "strength", for the same reason I'm not certain there's anything this early in the season to be labeled a weakness.

The passing game clearly is reliable, as you appropriately cited Bell and the "quality" TEs. When you throw in a very successful day from our QB, it seems as though we might be approaching "strength" status... ;)

You want to diminish the validity/strength of an opponent like OR State. Okay. You can do that. But, that doesn't sound very reasonable, scheduling a P5 for your first opponent, and then doing everything necessary to pull out a win, even if you choose to label it a "modestly competent effort and win against a barely modestly quality opponent", which is a very poor way to put it (nor did we really "hold on for dear life"). They executed, brother! Getting the ball back, and responding to OR State's effort by moving the ball and throwing a 50 yard TD in clutch time, on 3rd down, against a solid opponent... you can choose to belittle our opponent and downplay our first game performance, but IMHO that type of performance is exactly what we're looking for. (Run-on sentence, be d@mned!)

This performance is clearly a step in the right direction... improved OL play throughout the game... executing under pressure... the defense stepping up (4th down stops, anyone?)... respectable special teams play... yet, here we are, having this conversation.

You choose to continue to focus on the discussions and debates long past. You also seem to choose to focus on select shortcomings as "a-ha!" evidence. I certainly see some of those shortcomings, as well. For me, the issue unquestionably is, "are we making progress?" Based on yesterday's performance, the answer is, "yes". However, that rate of progress will undoubtedly be insufficient for some. We didn't get here overnight, and the ship won't be "righted" overnight. It's going to take awhile. I expect the journey to be just as fun as the destination. Yesterday certainly was a fun day. Let's enjoy it, and look forward to many more.

I truly hope you're enjoying the holiday weekend.
 
A little dramatic. It's not going to be a strength of the team this year but they can be serviceable if they stay healthy and improve during the season.
Even Oregon states fans freely acknowledged that their DL was a big weakness.. put that in your pipe and smoke it
 
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Even Oregon states fans freely acknowledged that their DL was a big weakness.. put that in your pipe and smoke it
That had nothing to do with what I said. Glad to see you're so eager/happy for the offensive line look bad though. Says quite a bit about you.
 
I don't get the relevance of 5 years. Do you think that every position group is only going to get better every year? It's a process. When we lose David Bell after this year our WR position might not be as good in year 6 as they were in year 4 and 5. The fact that it's year 6 doesn't mean that we never have to take a step back and retool/rebuild/reload. And there are reasons that make offensive line harder to build at Purdue than several other position groups. If we had a gap in recruiting and/or development in the past 3-5 years, that's probably going to be reflected on the field now.
What are you talking about? The point that people who defend brohm endlessly always make is that hazell left the cupboard so bare that it’s a special situation and that you can’t expect success (I think going 6-6 in today’s big ten is successful if you’re Purdue Illinois etc).

well by year five, you should have players on your roster such that you aren’t sitting there having to rely on a kieran Douglas ..

And your receiver example is not good. Brohm actually has done extremely well there .. the rice in the slot thing was a head fake and a story to satisfy rubes .. having him and Yaseen already on campus is very good roster management …

having 6-7 linemen ready to play mediocre p5 football after 5 classes is TERRIBLE.. whether you get it or not
 
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What are you talking about? The point that people who defend brohm endlessly always make is that hazell left the cupboard so bare that it’s a special situation and that you can’t expect success (I think going 6-6 in today’s big ten is successful if you’re Purdue Illinois etc).

well by year five, you should have players on your roster such that you aren’t sitting there having to rely on a kieran Douglas ..

And your receiver example is not good. Brohm actually has done extremely well there .. the rice in the slot thing was a head fake and a story to satisfy rubes .. having him and Yaseen already on campus is very good roster management …

having 6-7 linemen ready to play mediocre p5 football after 5 classes is TERRIBLE.. whether you get it or not
Again, your lack of reading comprehension is glaring. I have never once argued the things you are trying to refute. Throwing an online temper tantrum about it every game of the year just reflects who you are though.
 
Again, your lack of reading comprehension is glaring. I have never once argued the things you are trying to refute. Throwing an online temper tantrum about it every game of the year just reflects who you are though.
When you say you don’t get the significance of five years.. you are arguing them moron
 
When you say you don’t get the significance of five years.. you are arguing them moron
If you don't get that different units are going to be built on different timelines with different challenges along the way, you can't be reasoned with. Give it up idiot.
 
If you don't get that different units are going to be built on different timelines with different challenges along the way, you can't be reasoned with. Give it up idiot.
How many scholarships have been used on linemen in brohms five years. Morons like you can make excuses about guys retiring.. did Washington retire?
 
How many scholarships have been used on linemen in brohms five years. Morons like you can make excuses about guys retiring.. did Washington retire?
It's obvious you've been out here on the free board forever or you'd realize how stupid you sound right now.
 
I would also like to see other players get some playing time if the game goes well. Marcellus Moore to see if his speed could help us, and perhaps Wright to see if he can make up for that pass drop in the end zone. I would like to see if playing in an actual game improves some other players performances so that they might get some playing time.
I would have liked to see Wright get a couple more chances after the drop also. Really think he could be a difference maker if given the opportunity.
 
Lol “I think a. I’m dogmatic .. if you think b, you’re a bad person”
OR.....if you had read my posts for the past 5 years you'd realize that your assumptions about what I think aren't even in the ballpark.
 
OR.....if you had read my posts for the past 5 years you'd realize that your assumptions about what I think aren't even in the ballpark.
I don’t really keep track of what people post here but I was just saying it’s relevant .. but don’t get me confused with other people.. overall I was ecstatic about last night ..
 
That had nothing to do with what I said. Glad to see you're so eager/happy for the offensive line look bad though. Says quite a bit about you.
I’m not eager for it.. actually so I’m not confused here one thing I’ll also say is that I’m a big fan of coach Williams and I think he’s done a good job of improving as the year goes on..

nice big win last night I’ll try to keep positive and look forward to crushing UConn…
 
If you don't get that different units are going to be built on different timelines with different challenges along the way, you can't be reasoned with. Give it up idiot.
I get timelines and being up and down at times at every position. It happens as good players move on and new players take their place. The point I was making with this thread is that we haven't seen any ups with the OL. Are they improving? Maybe. But in my opinion, not really quickly enough based on their performance the past 4 years.
 
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I get timelines and being up and down at times at every position. It happens as good players move on and new players take their place. The point I was making with this thread is that we haven't seen any ups with the OL. Are they improving? Maybe. But in my opinion, not really quickly enough based on their performance the past 4 years.
"quickly enough"

A subjective statement begging for objective analysis...
 
Maybe I’m just dreaming but am I the only one who thinks Sullivan could be an offensive tackle… he just seems to have all the attributes
 
You know we (myself included) are basing a lot of things in regards to the o line off of one game. And I also don't even really "count" last season because it was so short and filled with things we have never seen before.

There are issues for sure, but we really should wait a few games before we fully judge whether it has regressed or not improved. And I'm talking about mid season when we get through some of our schedule.
 
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"quickly enough"

A subjective statement begging for objective analysis...
Thus why I said my opinion...

There is no "objective" answer that can be had from an analysis because there is no absolute timeline that's correct. Only opinion.
 
You know we (myself included) are basing a lot of things in regards to the o line off of one game. And I also don't even really "count" last season because it was so short and filled with things we have never seen before.

There are issues for sure, but we really should wait a few games before we fully judge whether it has regressed or not improved. And I'm talking about mid season when we get through some of our schedule.
I agree. I'm disappointed with their performance in game 1. But they may develop into a great unit thru the season.
 
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Not sure I'm ready to label anything this early in the season a "strength", for the same reason I'm not certain there's anything this early in the season to be labeled a weakness.

The passing game clearly is reliable, as you appropriately cited Bell and the "quality" TEs. When you throw in a very successful day from our QB, it seems as though we might be approaching "strength" status... ;)

You want to diminish the validity/strength of an opponent like OR State. Okay. You can do that. But, that doesn't sound very reasonable, scheduling a P5 for your first opponent, and then doing everything necessary to pull out a win, even if you choose to label it a "modestly competent effort and win against a barely modestly quality opponent", which is a very poor way to put it (nor did we really "hold on for dear life"). They executed, brother! Getting the ball back, and responding to OR State's effort by moving the ball and throwing a 50 yard TD in clutch time, on 3rd down, against a solid opponent... you can choose to belittle our opponent and downplay our first game performance, but IMHO that type of performance is exactly what we're looking for. (Run-on sentence, be d@mned!)

This performance is clearly a step in the right direction... improved OL play throughout the game... executing under pressure... the defense stepping up (4th down stops, anyone?)... respectable special teams play... yet, here we are, having this conversation.

You choose to continue to focus on the discussions and debates long past. You also seem to choose to focus on select shortcomings as "a-ha!" evidence. I certainly see some of those shortcomings, as well. For me, the issue unquestionably is, "are we making progress?" Based on yesterday's performance, the answer is, "yes". However, that rate of progress will undoubtedly be insufficient for some. We didn't get here overnight, and the ship won't be "righted" overnight. It's going to take awhile. I expect the journey to be just as fun as the destination. Yesterday certainly was a fun day. Let's enjoy it, and look forward to many more.

I truly hope you're enjoying the holiday weekend.
Yesterday was indeed fun...it was a great deal of fun just to be on campus and at the game...night games always have a little extra "magic" to them...the atmosphere was great. I did enjoy the win, am enjoying it...as, it made the weekend more enjoyable certainly.

All is good...we will see where things go...hopefully, they go well.
 
Oregon State averaged 200 yards rushing per game last year with that same offensive line. Yet, Purdue outrushed them despite replacing Hermanns... Also, the careers of Bramel, Garvin, Jornigan, and Stickford are over due to injuries this offseason, while Monnot was not available for this game either. Craig is still "rusty" but now has three weeks to get healthy and practice before Big Ten play starts.

Oregon State's defensive line is a weakness but their linebackers are a major strength, which played close to the LOS most of the game. They were running a scheme that is unfamiliar to Purdue. If you look at the running back stats... Horvath, Doerue, and Downing combined for 94 yards on 27 carries with a 3.48 ypc. Sure, it's not sexy, but it's good enough. When Horvath runs at least 19 times per game in the past 7 games, then Purdue is 3-1. Purdue is 0-3 when the run game is abandoned.
 
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