Off the Record
- Thread starter punaj
- Start date
Haas is the one player who could make a quantum leap from last year to this year just based on increased opportunity alone. He'll need to be physically ready to handle extra minutes at a high level because if he can handle them then he'll be on the court as much as he is able to be. No time share at the 5 anymore.
Haas will definitely play more minutes this year, and should be in for a big year. However there is still likely to be a bit of "time share"....albeit not near as limiting as last year.
Biggie at the 5 is going to be a very intriguing change of pace lineup. Wouldn't surprise me to see games against top teams where it is like a 25/15 split between Haas and Biggie.
That's kind of what I was thinking too. Haas could be a real beast this year.
I would be surprised because Swanigan doesn't want to play the 5. Even when Haas is out next year, I don't think we'll really see Swanigan at the 5 much...at least as I think about playing the 5 and the way it has been played by Hammons/Haas in recent years. I hope I'm wrong because I think Swanigan could be a dominant college post player if he wants to be but he know that being a college 5 won't get him to the NBA so he wants to work being a 4. If we got Swanigan posted up 10-15 times a game we could look very good on offense with him being good at both scoring and passing out of the post. The problem is that he would rather catch the ball facing up from 15+feet 10-15 times each game where he is typically being guarded by a smaller, more mobile player than him.
We started to see more of Swanigan in the post late last year. It will be interesting to see if/how that carries over into next season.
Swanigan wants to play the 4. But he also wants to play. He will play some 5 if he has to. If it means him getting 28 minutes, compared to 34, I guarantee he will play 6 minutes at the 5.
Swanigan is playing 34 mpg either way. You can say he's the 5 every time Haas is out of the game if you want but it doesn't matter unless he plays in the post. IMO, if he's still floating around the perimeter and catching the ball facing up when Haas is out, he's still not playing the 5. We're either operating with someone else at the 5 or running a different offense without a 5. I don't think he is going to want to stay in the post often enough to operate as a 5 but I hope I'm wrong.
CMP could change up our offense a little with a pro style pick'n'roll using CS and any other guard that can expand offensive options in that roll. I have not been impressed with any efforts by Purdue using a high pick'n'roll to date. Succeeding at this would feature CS as a triple threat offensive weapon that the NBA couldn't pass up. It would also break down opposing defenses in a way that could make Purdue so versatile offensively that even the elite collegiate teams couldn't deal with it. I think that would help Purdue make that big run in the NCAA tournament.
I am bringing this up because I don't think CMP has the knowledge of all the little things important to make it work. My reasoning centers on the idea that Purdue can not defend the pick'n'roll worth a hoot. If CMP can develop execution and defense of the pick'n'roll, he will elevate his stock as a coach that would meet most Purdue fan's expectations. This would also catch the eye of many top level recruits that are looking at their next level development to make "the league."
What say you?
I am bringing this up because I don't think CMP has the knowledge of all the little things important to make it work. My reasoning centers on the idea that Purdue can not defend the pick'n'roll worth a hoot. If CMP can develop execution and defense of the pick'n'roll, he will elevate his stock as a coach that would meet most Purdue fan's expectations. This would also catch the eye of many top level recruits that are looking at their next level development to make "the league."
What say you?
Painter has said in multiple interviews that Biggie sliding to the 5 next year (when Haas is out) will give his team a lot of versatility. He is definitely going to play backup minutes at 5 next year. If he wasn't you would've seen Painter out recruiting a 5th year backup center.
I think you're trying to fit square pegs into a round hole, at least with the 2015-2016 version of our players. Swanigan isn't a great triple threat option. When he catches the ball facing up, he is almost never a threat to beat his man off the dribble. His perimeter shooting was hit-and-miss last year and his turnovers were an issue until he simplified his game. Furthermore, we don't really have a guard that would be great at this unless it's someone new (not Spike) like Carsen Edwards.
Frankly, every player that has come to Purdue with the talent to get to the NBA has done so in my opinion. Let's be honest, JJ wasn't even thought of as a potential NBA player until maybe somewhere in his sophomore season and nobody would've thought twice about it had he not ended up in the NBA before his development into an AA at Purdue. Etwaun Moore was our most highly rated recruit and.... surprise.....has had the most success in his NBA career. I don't think it's our offense or style of play that limits the number of players we put in the NBA. When they have the talent, they get there.
I'd like to see more pick and roll action next year. Carson Edwards might be able to help out there and possibly thrive in it. A nice side effect is that it would be a brand new Purdue offense that other teams haven't seen yet.
But to say that CMP doesn't have the knowledge sounds crazy to me. He gets paid a lot of money to understand and teach basketball. From articles I've read, people in the basketball community really respect what he does and how he does it.
But to say that CMP doesn't have the knowledge sounds crazy to me. He gets paid a lot of money to understand and teach basketball. From articles I've read, people in the basketball community really respect what he does and how he does it.
If Painter can convince him to play like a 5 and we're not just taking the real 5 off the court and calling a 4 a 5 but not have him change the way he plays as a 5 compared to a 4. I think that's the scenario that will play out based on the countless times we have heard Swanigan/Barnes comment on him playing the 4 and how we saw Painter give him the freedom to do pretty much anything last season. We will see.
Didn't Painter have his team run the pick and roll every play for the entire first half at OSU awhile back? 2010 maybe? I know it was to isolate Sullinger and it worked quite well time after time even though they knew it was coming.
I think CMP is pretty good at utilizing his player's strengths and not forcing them to do things they aren't good at. When the baby boilers were on campus, it was a lot faster style of play than we have seen at other times.
Since the two years of waiting is over and he's the man now, I think it could be a big year for him. Of course he hears the word "big" quite often.
This isn't a hard sell to make. Playing some minutes at the 5 will increase Biggie's NBA stock.
We already saw it last year in Bloomington and in limited minutes against Wisky in West Lafayette. In both cases very effective.
I'm not sure how it increases his NBA stock because he will never be an NBA 5 but I agree that it would work well for Purdue which is why I figured we should have used it more often last season given the success we had on a very limited basis.
I'm assuming when he is the five, the defensive matchup will be much more favorable to beating his man off of the dribble than when a forward was guarding him.
Last year it was pretty tough to sit AJH....or give Haas even less minutes. AJH was such a dominant defensive rim protector that what you gained on offense with Biggie at 5....you also took the Big 10 DPOY off floor (or put Haas on bench for entire game).
Biggie isn't an NBA 5....but the NBA does want efficient and versatile players. Biggie, like a lot of talented freshman, was an inefficient player last year. Every minute he spends at the 5....his offensive efficiency numbers are likely to rise next year.
Part of getting the NBA'S attention is consistently putting up big numbers across the board. That ain't happening if Biggie is floating around on perimeter all game.
Now he obviously doesn't want to be pigeon holed for entire game at 5.....but back up minutes will benefit both Purdue and Biggie individually..
He plays like he did in that game and it doesn't matter what # you assign to him he will get attention from the NBA. They absolutely didn't have an answer for him no matter who was guarding him. I just want to see more of that Caleb and less of the turnover/outside shooting Caleb.
I think he will get some low post minutes and that will be good for him in regards to the NBA. He will need to be good at posting NBA 4's, many of whom will be more agile than him. He'll need a power game to compliment his face up.
Fellas. Painter was running pick and rolls and slips with Hammons and the wing quite often in the latter part of the season. Haas got a few ops at it too. He can do it. Painter can and has taught it.
Accurate. I think sometimes folks don't recognize it. However, to say Painter doesn't know how is, well, strange?
Yes Hammons was becoming quite effective off it in the latter part of the season. Don't recall seeing much success with anyone else.
TC,
I want to make sure you know I am not being a smart ass with this response, only attempting to correct a poor job of writing when I said "Hammons and the wing were running screen and roll". What I should have said is, the 5 would move from the weak side high post across the lane and out to the wing along the free throw line extended to initiate a screen on the ball allowing the wing to get into the lane with the ball. The 5 would roll to the basket as the 5D picked up the driving wing and attempted to recover to the 5. Thus either the wing player would get a layup or pull up in close, or he would pass to the rolling 5, or the defense would effectively cover and the ball move on for more motion. After that worked a few times causing the the 5D to hedge early on the screen The 5 would slip the screen and the wing would feed him a pocket pass or an over head pass for a thunderous throw down. The plays almost always involved Hammons at the 5 and various players at the wing usually PJ, Mathias, Cline, or Vincent. Occasionally Haas would be that 5. That "play", and I say play in quotes since it is not a set play but just another situation the team looks for from within the motion offense was one of my favorites to watch and I hope Haas gets very good at it this season. I, like you, don't recall any other positions initiating that screen and roll which is what my poorly written earlier post accidentally implied. I only saw Haas do it a couple of times as he had less PT and was not quite as agile as AJ.
Just because CS is on the floor without Haas doesn't mean he's the 5. Painter will mix up the offense to take advantage of matchups.
You might even see CD slide out to the 3 and have Vince post up smaller players if CS pulls a big away from the hoop. If CS can consistently hit the 15-18 footer or from 3, it's going to open up the offense.
You might even see CD slide out to the 3 and have Vince post up smaller players if CS pulls a big away from the hoop. If CS can consistently hit the 15-18 footer or from 3, it's going to open up the offense.
In theory yes...on a play or two that could happen. In reality most of the time when Haas is out out of game.....and CS in game....CS will be the 5. Vince is much better ball handler and much better 3 pt shooter. As we saw against Wisconsin....Biggie is very difficult to defend in the post. Play to your strengths!.
