Navy Flex Triple Option Offense

[Caryquad]

Reviewing Purdue's offensive/defensive stats vs Notre Dame and compared those stats with Navy's offensive/defensive production against ND from 2007-2014

We went 1-7 against ND , scored 152 pts -- averaging 19 pts per game. We were out scored by an average of 9 pts per game by ND

Navy went 3-5 and scored 222 pts -- averaging 28 pts per game. Navy was out scored by 10 pts per game by ND

Defensively we have up 223 pts while Navy yielded 302 to ND

Navy recruits one and a few two star kids -- rarely do they get three stars. The lack of talent demonstrates itself on defense. They have a hard time stopping more talented offenses. Purdue gets more talented defensive recruits and ND has scored 223 pts -- avg 28 PPG. While vs Navy -- ND scored 302 pts -- 38 PPG

Bottom line -- a less talented Navy team is worse than Purdue on defense but a less talented Navy team produces more points on offense. The flex triple option offense is the difference. The offensive scheme maximizes deception and precision blocking -- likewise Georgia Tech runs this offense and is successful in beating schools that have more natural talent ( put up 49 against Miss St in Sun Bowl)

If we continue to recruit tier 2 talent we will continue to occasionally get bowl bids and finish second half in the B10. We ought to seriously consider changing our offense to challenge our opponents with a scheme they are ill prepared to defend. ND hates playing Navy , OSU also hated their match up with Navy -- a school that finished almost dead last in recruiting. It would take a couple of years to install the flex triple option and a number of our present offense players would transfer -- however, the flex option is run with unique players that are not necessarily recruited by the OSU' UM and PSU's of the world. Our talent pool for light quick footed OL and triple option QBs would yield a unque pool of athletes that could produce more offense and because of the run orientated triple option burns more clock minimize our defenses time on the field

Just a thought

Thx -- Beat Marshall

 

[Minnesota_Boiler]

Excellent analysis and worth considering. Downside for Purdue, opting for this approach, would be that we'd likely not build on our "Cradle of Quarterbacks" tradition and attract top ranked quarterback prospects. Flip side is that the current DH2-Shoop run-offense might not be appealing to the very best QB's anyway. An interesting historical perspective is that I believe Coach Bob DeMoss attempted this switch in the early 70's after succeeding Mollenkopf. He tried to convert Gary Danielson into an option quarterback. Probably a horrendously poor decision given Danielson's passing abilities and the talent-rich team "Demo" inherited from Mollenkopf. DH2 doesn't have all the appealing choices Demo had, though. So, maybe reconsider?

 

[boilermaker75]

Originally posted by Minnesota_Boiler:
Excellent analysis and worth considering. Downside for Purdue, opting for this approach, would be that we'd likely not build on our "Cradle of Quarterbacks" tradition and attract top ranked quarterback prospects. Flip side is that the current DH2-Shoop run-offense might not be appealing to the very best QB's anyway. An interesting historical perspective is that I believe Coach Bob DeMoss attempted this switch in the early 70's after succeeding Mollenkopf. He tried to convert Gary Danielson into an option quarterback. Probably a horrendously poor decision given Danielson's passing abilities and the talent-rich team "Demo" inherited from Mollenkopf. DH2 doesn't have all the appealing choices Demo had, though. So, maybe reconsider?

I was there, and if my memory serves me, it was a wishbone offense and lasted for one and one-half games. In our second game at halftime we were down 22 to nothing against Washington and Sonny Sixkiller. When we came out in the second half we had abandoned running the wishbone and ended up losing 22 to 21.

 

[lbodel]

I think the more relevant thing you're bring up is how Purdue should approach things in order to succeed in the Big Ten. Is it gimmicky offense, like an option or quick/no huddle spread offense? Or does Purdue go more traditional Big Ten and focus on defense? Does it try to do a hybrid of the 2.

The gimmicky type of offenses typically can lead to success and an upset here or there, but struggle to do things well consistently and take that "next step" (look at a Texas Tech for example). It was like that at Purdue as well - we had good success and had some upsets in 98, 99 - but in 2000, our defense really took a big step forward and our offense probably wasn't as good/crazy. Purdue was closer to a "Big Ten" style and it had its best success.

I don't think the triple option is really an...option for us. You literally have to recruit totally based on that and we have literally like 0 of the tools you need to do that well.

And while Purdue's offense is a mess, Purdue's defense is equally there. Neither are good. As long as that is the case, we're not going to a bowl game. You need at least one decent unit.

 

[ghostoffatjack]

I was at Purdue during that disastrous attempt at making a mainly pocket passer a wishbone QB another day another story....anyway it would only be an option if the redshirt QB AND the Frosh ACL injured QB are capable and/or experienced in running any kind of read option/ pistol, wishbone, etc, offense on a regular basis and it certainly calls for different blocking schemes. You may need to change your OC, and probably your O-Line and Running Back coaches so now would not be a great time to experiment again. In Year Three we should see big signs of improvement with this team with three classes in the fold and if not it would be time to start again with A LOT of changes in the entire staff, maybe, from top to bottom!

They all have to know their butts are on the line during this upcoming season, don't you think?

 

[Inspector100]

Originally posted by boilermaker75:

Originally posted by Minnesota_Boiler:
Excellent analysis and worth considering. Downside for Purdue, opting for this approach, would be that we'd likely not build on our "Cradle of Quarterbacks" tradition and attract top ranked quarterback prospects. Flip side is that the current DH2-Shoop run-offense might not be appealing to the very best QB's anyway. An interesting historical perspective is that I believe Coach Bob DeMoss attempted this switch in the early 70's after succeeding Mollenkopf. He tried to convert Gary Danielson into an option quarterback. Probably a horrendously poor decision given Danielson's passing abilities and the talent-rich team "Demo" inherited from Mollenkopf. DH2 doesn't have all the appealing choices Demo had, though. So, maybe reconsider?

I was there, and if my memory serves me, it was a wishbone offense and lasted for one and one-half games. In our second game at halftime we were down 22 to nothing against Washington and Sonny Sixkiller. When we came out in the second half we had abandoned running the wishbone and ended up losing 22 to 21.

I was at this game and remember it opposite of your description. Danielson ran for over 200 yards in the first half and Purdue lead 21 to 0. Washington and Sixkiller scored 22 in the second half and won the game. Purdue did not abandon the wishbone, just didn't execute it well. Glad to see you are interested in this and have a memborance of the past. Just a little bit different with the same result.

 

[ghostoffatjack]

I believe you are correct we junked it later in the year after the Wishbone and the Doom Platoon defense wasn't working too well!

 

[boilermaker75]

Originally posted by Inspector100:

Originally posted by boilermaker75:

Originally posted by Minnesota_Boiler:
Excellent analysis and worth considering. Downside for Purdue, opting for this approach, would be that we'd likely not build on our "Cradle of Quarterbacks" tradition and attract top ranked quarterback prospects. Flip side is that the current DH2-Shoop run-offense might not be appealing to the very best QB's anyway. An interesting historical perspective is that I believe Coach Bob DeMoss attempted this switch in the early 70's after succeeding Mollenkopf. He tried to convert Gary Danielson into an option quarterback. Probably a horrendously poor decision given Danielson's passing abilities and the talent-rich team "Demo" inherited from Mollenkopf. DH2 doesn't have all the appealing choices Demo had, though. So, maybe reconsider?

I was there, and if my memory serves me, it was a wishbone offense and lasted for one and one-half games. In our second game at halftime we were down 22 to nothing against Washington and Sonny Sixkiller. When we came out in the second half we had abandoned running the wishbone and ended up losing 22 to 21.

I was at this game and remember it opposite of your description. Danielson ran for over 200 yards in the first half and Purdue lead 21 to 0. Washington and Sixkiller scored 22 in the second half and won the game. Purdue did not abandon the wishbone, just didn't execute it well. Glad to see you are interested in this and have a memborance of the past. Just a little bit different with the same result.

You are right. Something didn't feel right with my memory, a senior moment. You have jogged my memory. I believe in the first half Danielson had set the single-game rushing record for Purdue, but lost yardage and the record in the second half.

 

[boilermaker75]

Originally posted by ghostoffatjack:
I believe you are correct we junked it later in the year after the Wishbone and the Doom Platoon defense wasn't working too well!

That also was one very talented football team with many future NFLers. Butz, Armstrong, Baumgartner, Hrivnak, Bingham, Stingley, Nurrenbern, Capria, and of course Danielson.

 

[Inspector100]

There you go, BMaker 75. Now you are on a roll.

 

[izakman]

Originally posted by ghostoffatjack:
.... In Year Three we should see big signs of improvement with this team with three classes in the fold and if not it would be time to start again with A LOT of changes in the entire staff, maybe, from top to bottom!

They all have to know their butts are on the line during this upcoming season, don't you think?

There are potentially lots of positives with this coming season ... no matter how it turns out!

 

[ghostoffatjack]

I respectfully have to disagree with your last few words, another dismal season play and record-wise, resulting in even fewer butts in the seats by season's end will send Purdue starting anew from top to bottom! I an not expecting that but in fact if it happens, as the Hawk, the White Sox announcer, would say, HE GONE!

 

[pb1941]

It would be interesting to know where the states that these 9 football players were recruited from. Back when J.M. was the coach he recruited the Chicago area heavy now we don`t.

 

[ghostoffatjack]

Back then, Purdue owned both the Catholic and Public league HS football teams in Chicago and the mini burbs at the time! Many of those 9 came from there. Newport News, VA was also an area Purdue was able to recruit very well in and to top it off most of the few very good Indiana players played at Purdue instead of ND!

When Jack and some of his staff moved on, Wisconsin and ND took over the recruiting of Chicago, ND started getting the best of Indiana and Purdue started recruiting other areas and the leftovers!

 

[Fan4Life]

Georgia Tech is currently trying this - with somewhat mixed results. There are only so many true option QBs out there and you need a good one. Many go to bigger programs and switch positions.

I don't believe the triple option is the way to go, however - I think your main point of finding a unique offense that is tougher to prepare for than runs up the middle and screens - is valid.

 

[boiler17]

Actually, most of this analysis isnt that different from what they tried to do for most of this year with Hunt and Mostert.

One is traditional triple option, one is spread triple option. Purdue just executes sloppy, has a detrimentally simple system, and even when they were running the ball well couldnt trick anyone.

I still dont care what system they run. I just want to see guys sell out with effort and feel like we are using guys to their strengths.

 

[klemman]

It makes sense to use the system in the military academies because they know that they will usually be smaller along the line.

Because of the Military commitment it will also be unlikely that they can recruit many individual game breakers. At least those with even the slightest hope of playing beyond college.

Seeing Purdue go to such a system would seem like you're giving up.

 

[BoilerExpress]

Originally posted by klemman:
It makes sense to use the system in the military academies because they know that they will usually be smaller along the line.

Because of the Military commitment it will also be unlikely that they can recruit many individual game breakers. At least those with even the slightest hope of playing beyond college.

Seeing Purdue go to such a system would seem like you're giving up.

totally disagree. by that rationale, GT 'gave up' when they hired Johnson from navy. but i'd trade their last few years with him as the coach for our years with hope and hazell. not even close

our DNA as a program has been an air raid type of offense, which is why i was hoping we'd hire Dykes when Hope was canned. but if we're not going in that direction, i'd definitely be OK with a navy/GT type of system. it's different than every other team in the league, and that alone adds value IMO. with Hazell it seems we are trying to run a similar power running attack to what the top 5-6 teams in the b10 already run a very high level. so far the results have been what i would have predicted: abysmal

if Haze can't right the ship, i would absolutely, 100% want us to hire a coach that runs something different than OSU, MSU, wisky, neb, psu, etc. air-raid, triple option, or something else altogether, just be innovative

 

[klemman]

Boiler, I agree with your statement about running something different from some of the other schools. I guess I'm tied to Purdue being such a great school for quarterbacks and passing.

While running an option offense would make it difficult for teams to prepare for, it would also require recruiting players specifically for that scheme, you'll be pretty much tied into it. There's no half way.

 

[boiler17]

Nice post Express.

I have always liked our pass first system for most of the reasons you outline, and as you also mention/imply our system isnt unique anymore. I would like to see us go back to a 09 or 04 offense, but that does require good QB play. Plus I have to think between Etling, Appleby, Blough, and Sindelar some coach can make a decent qb out of at least one of them.

The only way youre really tied to the option system is at QB and WR for obvious reasons. Plus with the number of good blockers you'd be looking for, safety play could improve dramatically as guys switch around the roster naturally.

Maybe our scheme sucks or is good. Hard to tell with the way the coaches and our guys execute it. I would can Hazell after this year barring an eight win season or dramatic competitive turnaround, hire whoever the next best guy you can get, let him run what he wants, and worry about improving game day experience and facilities.

 

[Vince1973]

Regarding the Washington game: didn't Danielson sit out the second half, and didn't Bo Brobowski fill in for him in second half?

 

[Inspector100]

Originally posted by Vince1973:
Regarding the Washington game: didn't Danielson sit out the second half, and didn't Bo Brobowski fill in for him in second half?

I don't recall Brobowski in the game. If he did, it was due to injury. Anyway, I am just questioning the term "sit out."

 

[Inspector100]

Originally posted by Inspector100:

Originally posted by Vince1973:
Regarding the Washington game: didn't Danielson sit out the second half, and didn't Bo Brobowski fill in for him in second half?

I don't recall Brobowski in the game. If he did, it was due to injury. Anyway, I am just questioning the term "sit out."

I went back into the internet about this and feel lucky to return to human life. I found little information about the details of the game except that Brobowski scored the second Purdue touchdown in the second quarter. He was in because Danielson had run about 60 yards to the eleven yard line and had to leave due to breath. Bo took the next snap and scored from the 11. I would have never remembered this.

I also saw that Washington went for 2 points on their second touchdown in the 4th quarter and failed. They tried again on their 3rd touchdown and failed. But they kicked a field goal with 2:05 left to win the game.

 

[Redhotfill]

They all have to know their butts are on the line during this upcoming season, don't you think?

I don't think they care, especially DH, he got his guaranteed multi-million $$ payday he never has to do anything with the rest of his life, he is SET! Just passing out Hopium and cool aid so as not to violate terms on his end so he can keep collecting. After he is done here I don't think he will ever work again as a DIV I HC. I still have doubts he will have more wins in all his time here than Hope did in his last season.