My starting 5 after yesterday...

[*4purdue*]

Hammons - he's our best player and needs to be in to get us off to a good start.
Swanigan - he will break out of his funk sooner or later and is our most talented player.
Davis - need his senior leadership and still our best stopper.
Stephens - like it or not, he's streaky and not afraid to shoot. His d has also improved.
Mathias - I don't know how anyone can watch us and not realize he needs to be on the floor.

In a nutshell, we need outside threats on the floor to keep the d honest. Teams sag off PJ and JH when they are on the floor and it clogs up the inside. Edwards will still get lots of minutes, but needs to realize we need him to take the shot when he has it. We had a play yesterday in the second half when the clock was running down and he had an open shot, but rotated the ball one more pass to PJ who was open and had to take the shot and missed. Edwards needs to take that shot and not make the extra pass. We need him and I know Stephens will take that shot. So even though KS is not shooting that well, he's a better option on the floor right now.

 

[BoilerNGold013]

Good post. Agree 100% about Stephens. Needs to be out there and we need to have guys on the floor who will take and make open shots regardless of when they come in the shot clock. Guys passing up good open looks killed numerous possessions in the 2nd half yesterday.

 

[hoosierdog1]

Hammons - he's our best player and needs to be in to get us off to a good start.
Swanigan - he will break out of his funk sooner or later and is our most talented player.
Davis - need his senior leadership and still our best stopper.
Stephens - like it or not, he's streaky and not afraid to shoot. His d has also improved.
Mathias - I don't know how anyone can watch us and not realize he needs to be on the floor.

In a nutshell, we need outside threats on the floor to keep the d honest. Teams sag off PJ and JH when they are on the floor and it clogs up the inside. Edwards will still get lots of minutes, but needs to realize we need him to take the shot when he has it. We had a play yesterday in the second half when the clock was running down and he had an open shot, but rotated the ball one more pass to PJ who was open and had to take the shot and missed. Edwards needs to take that shot and not make the extra pass. We need him and I know Stephens will take that shot. So even though KS is not shooting that well, he's a better option on the floor right now.

I'm not so sure that Biggie is our most talented player.

 

[boilers08]

I'm not so sure that Biggie is our most talented player.

Well...are you going to let us know who you think is?

 

[blg430]

Edwards for Swanigan and we're good. May lose a couple rebounds but TO's will be reduced. Also adds an extra shooter-slasher and a better ability to switch on Man defense. MATHIAS should be numero uno point and play as many mins as possible with PJ backing. Hill should be a slashing Def specialist combo guard. Jon Octeus would have broken the Iowa press IMO. Also thought Stephens and Mathias played very well together 1st half

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

Ray looks hurt to me. He looks bad, not even close to 100%. I'm not sure he's a good option right now.

 

[hoosierdog1]

Well...are you going to let us know who you think is?

Edwards

 

[BoilerDeac]

In an up-tempo game, or a game in which a team is going to force Purdue to play out of it's half-court offense, Edwards should be in for Swanigan EVERY TIME.

Again, Painter didn't make the adjustment.

 

[*4purdue*]

I'm not so sure that Biggie is our most talented player.

He was Mr. Basketball, ranked the 9th best player out of HS & a McDonalds AA. I'd say he has the most talent... especially the way Edwards has been playing.

 

[*4purdue*]

Edwards for Swanigan and we're good. May lose a couple rebounds but TO's will be reduced. Also adds an extra shooter-slasher and a better ability to switch on Man defense. MATHIAS should be numero uno point and play as many mins as possible with PJ backing. Hill should be a slashing Def specialist combo guard. Jon Octeus would have broken the Iowa press IMO. Also thought Stephens and Mathias played very well together 1st half

Until Edwards learns that he is a scoring option & we need him to shoot, he is not a better option than Swanigan. I love Edwards game, but he has not stepped up his game from last year. He looks more to pass when he's open & I'm ok with it if its to Hammons or Haas, but not when it's to PJ

 

[FleeTheScene]

Hammons is obviously our best and most talented player. No one else is close at this point. This says nothing of potential, but who would you want to have the ball in a key moment? Who would you want to have on defense when we need a stop? I kind of can't believe that this is a debate and he hasn't even been brought up.

 

[proudopete]

Hammons on the floor allows our players to be more aggressive on defense.
The difference is huge if you just watch the team.
I say he starts and we get the 1-2 punch rhythm back In the post.
The way it's working now we aren't getting production we could be and Haas should be the one getting the flow of the game from the bench.
AJ is what makes this team special and his precense on both ends can really dictate how a game is played. Then we plug in Haas to break them. It's not working trying the opposite.

 

[*4purdue*]

Hammons is obviously our best and most talented player. No one else is close at this point. This says nothing of potential, but who would you want to have the ball in a key moment? Who would you want to have on defense when we need a stop? I kind of can't believe that this is a debate and he hasn't even been brought up.

re-read my op. I said Hammons was our best player. Swanigan has more talent. He can dribble, drive, pass, score inside and out on the arc. We have no one else that can do all those things. He is still learning, which is why he is turning the ball over, but by the end of this season & next season, it will be clear who has the most talent on the team.

 

[FleeTheScene]

re-read my op. I said Hammons was our best player. Swanigan has more talent. He can dribble, drive, pass, score inside and out on the arc. We have no one else that can do all those things. He is still learning, which is why he is turning the ball over, but by the end of this season & next season, it will be clear who has the most talent on the team.

I take your point, but with a caveat. AJ has taken and made threes this season as well. He may be 2 for 2 actually. Hammons passes well out of the post when someone moves to an open spot to receive a pass. Swanigan gets a majority of his turnovers when he tries to put it on the floor. I would argue that Hammons has all the same skills that's Swanigan is showing, but he has the knowledge to know that it isn't the best play for him to try to do them. He plays within the offense and just because it's his job to finish plays in the post doesn't mean he couldn't do all the same things biggie is trying to do now.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

AJH/IH combined for 10 shots. 80%
JH/PJT combined for 10 shots. 10%
wrong people shooting. wrong people handling the ball too much. wrong people with the ball at the end of the shot clock. If you can't make an entry pass to a 7 footer, just gtfo. How hard is it to make a good solid bounce pass? We suck at it. Vince and Kendall have to play. And they need to play with serious confidence. This team is too laid back, too casual, too careless. All the weapons in the world, but they have got to get in the game mentally and stay there.

 

[C'ville Boiler]

AJ has to start. What more does he have to do to earn it back? Ray looks like he is still a little hurt. I wasn't buying the Mathias at PG talk at first but am now. Kendall has really been playing better lately. We need scoring threats in from the tip. PJ and a less than 100% Ray are not. Lineup till Ray gets better ...
PG. Mathias
SG. Stephens
SF. Edwards (needs to look to score)
PF. Biggie (for now unless he doesn't cut down momentum killing TOs
C. Hammons obviously

 

[lbodel]

AJ has to start. What more does he have to do to earn it back? Ray looks like he is still a little hurt. I wasn't buying the Mathias at PG talk at first but am now. Kendall has really been playing better lately. We need scoring threats in from the tip. PJ and a less than 100% Ray are not. Lineup till Ray gets better ...
PG. Mathias
SG. Stephens
SF. Edwards (needs to look to score)
PF. Biggie (for now unless he doesn't cut down momentum killing TOs
C. Hammons obviously

Something missed about Swanigan is that he is a combined 3-15 in the last 2 games. A guy his size shouldn't have that low of a shooting percentage. Means he isn't taking good shots. 3 of his 5 shots against Wisconsin were 3s. It's great he hit a couple, but that's not where we need him (particularly in the first half, early in possession). Against Iowa, he took as many shots as Hammons and Haas combined.

Swanigan needs to realize that if he shoots around 5 quality shots and has 7-8 rebounds - that's amazing production from that position for us. He just gets the ball and thinks he has to shoot. He's a talented guy, but he's taken some really bad shots over the last couple games. It's frustrating because he really put together a solid, complete game against Vandy.

 

[*4purdue*]

I take your point, but with a caveat. AJ has taken and made threes this season as well. He may be 2 for 2 actually. Hammons passes well out of the post when someone moves to an open spot to receive a pass. Swanigan gets a majority of his turnovers when he tries to put it on the floor. I would argue that Hammons has all the same skills that's Swanigan is showing, but he has the knowledge to know that it isn't the best play for him to try to do them. He plays within the offense and just because it's his job to finish plays in the post doesn't mean he couldn't do all the same things biggie is trying to do now.

It's taken AJ 4 years to get there, which is why he is our best player. This is Swanigan's first year and people forget he graduated a year early. He should be playing his senior year of HS right now. Can you imagine what he will be doing when he is a senior at Purdue? He's already one of the top rebounders in the B1G.

 

[boilerjrut3]

5-Hammons
4-Edwards
3-Davis
2-Mathias
1-Hill

I chose the lineup partly because we get off to such horrifically slow starts anymore. I believe that is partly due to the fact that with PJ and Davis on the floor at the same time of offense stagnates. Hammons needs to be out to set the tone. Vince thrived at the floor and can beat 4s of the dribble and still rebound really well.

This also allows Swanigan to come in the second unit and be the focal point, mostly against second level players.

 

[*4purdue*]

5-Hammons
4-Edwards
3-Davis
2-Mathias
1-Hill

I chose the lineup partly because we get off to such horrifically slow starts anymore. I believe that is partly due to the fact that with PJ and Davis on the floor at the same time of offense stagnates. Hammons needs to be out to set the tone. Vince thrived at the floor and can beat 4s of the dribble and still rebound really well.

This also allows Swanigan to come in the second unit and be the focal point, mostly against second level players.

We finally recruit a McDonalds All American and Mr. Basketball and you want to bench him? Don't you think Izzo would love that. Next recruit we are after against him he will say "look at Swanigan, would have been starting and a star at MSU, chose Purdue and the benched him". He has to start or CMP will never land another big recruit again.

 

[BBG]

We finally recruit a McDonalds All American and Mr. Basketball and you want to bench him? Don't you think Izzo would love that. Next recruit we are after against him he will say "look at Swanigan, would have been starting and a star at MSU, chose Purdue and the benched him". He has to start or CMP will never land another big recruit again.

This. No way do you bench Biggie.

 

[hoosierdog1]

We finally recruit a McDonalds All American and Mr. Basketball and you want to bench him? Don't you think Izzo would love that. Next recruit we are after against him he will say "look at Swanigan, would have been starting and a star at MSU, chose Purdue and the benched him". He has to start or CMP will never land another big recruit again.

I think op said their 5* Davis is only averaging 17-18 min a game.You think MP could use that against msu?I think not ! BTW Biggie won't be at PU 4 years where he is ready for pro ball or not!

 

[*4purdue*]

I think op said their 5* Davis is only averaging 17-18 min a game.You think MP could use that against msu?I think not ! BTW Biggie won't be at PU 4 years where he is ready for pro ball or not!

Izzo has landed many 5* and All Americans. He's also won a national championship. He can do anything he wants and he'll still land top recruits. CMP doesn't have that status yet. Of course Biggie won't be here 4 years. That's why I said he is our most talented player.

 

[hoosierdog1]

Izzo has landed many 5* and All Americans. He's also won a national championship. He can do anything he wants and he'll still land top recruits. CMP doesn't have that status yet. Of course Biggie won't be here 4 years. That's why I said he is our most talented player.

You are the one that said imagine what he will be doing when he's a Senior at PU.

 

[lbodel]

We finally recruit a McDonalds All American and Mr. Basketball and you want to bench him? Don't you think Izzo would love that. Next recruit we are after against him he will say "look at Swanigan, would have been starting and a star at MSU, chose Purdue and the benched him". He has to start or CMP will never land another big recruit again.

I agree that you do not bench him BUT not because of this reasoning.

Swanigan has shown to be a real asset to this team - his rebounding alone is outstanding. He needs to control himself a bit more - both with turnovers and with shot selection - but you don't need to sit him on the bench. He just needs more experience. Not gonna get that on the bench.

 

[BoilerDeac]

We finally recruit a McDonalds All American and Mr. Basketball and you want to bench him? Don't you think Izzo would love that. Next recruit we are after against him he will say "look at Swanigan, would have been starting and a star at MSU, chose Purdue and the benched him". He has to start or CMP will never land another big recruit again.

How sad is that? Even though Purdue may very well be a better team with Biggie off the bench (still playing big minutes), and going with VE at the 4, Painter can't do it, because it will look bad?

Sheesh. I guess that's the unfortunate reality of college bball recruiting.

 

[*4purdue*]

You are the one that said imagine what he will be doing when he's a Senior at PU.

Only because FTS said said he wasn't as talented as AJ. If FTS is correct and he's not as talented as AJ, then he probably will be here in 4 years, but I say he is. You need to read through the post.

 

[*4purdue*]

I agree that you do not bench him BUT not because of this reasoning.

Swanigan has shown to be a real asset to this team - his rebounding alone is outstanding. He needs to control himself a bit more - both with turnovers and with shot selection - but you don't need to sit him on the bench. He just needs more experience. Not gonna get that on the bench.

I agree... I have him in my starting 5. But you have to admit, if CMP benched him, it would be used against Purdue in recruiting, especially since he originally committed to MSU. My opinion is you play your best talent. He has the most talent on the team. You have to play him.

 

[boilerjrut3]

How sad is that? Even though Purdue may very well be a better team with Biggie off the bench (still playing big minutes), and going with VE at the 4, Painter can't do it, because it will look bad?

Sheesh. I guess that's the unfortunate reality of college bball recruiting.

This.

I get what others were saying in response to my post, but I think he'd thrive off the bench. If he's butt hurt about it so what. Painter has been doing it to AJ for years and he's a great player. Not a 5* go start but he's easily at that level now.

 

[lbodel]

I agree... I have him in my starting 5. But you have to admit, if CMP benched him, it would be used against Purdue in recruiting, especially since he originally committed to MSU. My opinion is you play your best talent. He has the most talent on the team. You have to play him.

I mean, it's not black and white.

Is it a benching like oh you are gonna come off the bench and still play 25 minutes? Or is it a you're sitting on the bench and I'll play you 5 minutes and maybe here and there you play more? Or is it 1 game of you're not starting to send a message of being careful with the ball?

I don't think anyone is suggesting benching him and he hardly plays. I don't think a freshman playing 25 minutes, but not starting for a period of time, is going to be used against anyone very effectively in recruiting.

 

[WestCoastRoses]

We finally recruit a McDonalds All American and Mr. Basketball and you want to bench him? Don't you think Izzo would love that. Next recruit we are after against him he will say "look at Swanigan, would have been starting and a star at MSU, chose Purdue and the benched him". He has to start or CMP will never land another big recruit again.

Is Deyonta Davis, the Mr Basketball 5 star stud that Izzo recruited, starting for MSU? No, he isn't. Izzo has Davis on a MUCH tighter leash than CMP does with Swanigan.

 

[hoosierdog1]

Is Deyonta Davis, the Mr Basketball 5 star stud that Izzo recruited, starting for MSU? No, he isn't. Izzo has Davis on a MUCH tighter leash than CMP does with Swanigan.

Exactly !!!

 

[SnowLeopard]

Time to hand the reins over to your seniors and upperclassmen

Not just to start, but putting the emphasis on them to score. Davis should be 1B after AJ

Its tiring for him to play two ways, as both the best defender and best perimeter scorer, but hey, he only needs to turn it on for the second half of the season....starting later this month and keep it that way through April 4

I predict this will be our 8-man rotation by end January / early February. Its got everything. Best center in the game, 3 shooters, 3 drivers.

Starters
AJ - First scoring option
Vince
Ray - First perimeter option
Stephens (or Mathias)
Hill (or Mathias)

Subs
Haas
Swan
Mathias

 

[boilerzz]

If you are really predicting PJ will be out of the rotation, I'm 100% confident you are wrong.

 

[SnowLeopard]

If you are really predicting PJ will be out of the rotation, I'm 100% confident you are wrong.

You really think we will continue to play 9 or 10 men deep into March? If we play less than 10, who do you see as the odd ones out?

 

[lbodel]

You really think we will continue to play 9 or 10 men deep into March? If we play less than 10, who do you see as the odd ones out?

I still don't see Hill/Mathias playing PG for a combined 40 minutes.

I think you'll see a lot of things change based on opponent. Of course, it also depends how we play. I.e. If Mathias and Stephens become consistent 3 point shooters, obviously Cline's minutes will be cut down (and could be completely).

 

[BoilerFan#35]

Starters are: Aj, Biggie, Stephens, Davis, and Hill. Vince, Haas, PJ, and Mathias would be a solid bench. I think that Stephens needs to start over Vince because we don't have a guy that can consistently stretch the floor when Vince starts. I know Davis can but he on and off a lot. Speaking of Kendall I don't understand why he has played 25 minutes the last two games. He looked really solid in both first halves then he never really got back in the game. I'm pretty sure Cline played more in the 2nd half against Michigan which makes no sense to me.

 

[*4purdue*]

Yes we will play 10 deep into March and hopefully April. No one has separated themselves other than AJ. Why would you not want to??? It keeps fresh body's on the floor at the end of games when other teams are worn out.... Especially in a tournament when you are playing in games where the energy is up and on short rest.

 

[boilerzz]

You really think we will continue to play 9 or 10 men deep into March? If we play less than 10, who do you see as the odd ones out?

I think we'll play at least 9. I could see Cline getting squeezed if Mathias and Kendall keep playing well. 9 is a pretty common rotation for teams.

 

[dwhitebash11]

Hammons
Swanigan
Edwards
Stephens
PJ

Basically, I'd switch Stephens for Davis. Like someone else said, we desperately need at least one shooter to start the game, just to keep the defense honest. Stephens also is one of our better defenders with great length. Have Davis come in, still get the same # of minutes, but we NEED a shooter in at all times, at least one. I know VE is a good shooter, but seriously, we have THREE shooters on this team. Cline, Stephens, Mathias. That's it.

Vince, PJ, and Davis can all hit them, but they are typically rhythmic shooters.