Motion offense

[Cevol03]

I spent most of the game trying to figure out why our offense seems so broken - and has looked this way against some of the more talented teams we have played this year. I really think our current personnel are a bad fit for the motion offense (at least the way we run the motion offense). In the last 10 years, we have had our most success with the following five player combination:

- A mobile center (JaJuan Johnson)
- An athletic wing (Robbie, Vince when he is playing the 4)
- Three athletic guards that can create shots (Etwaun, LewJack, Octeus, Keaton Grant, Kramer)

With our current configuration of personnel we don't have any of these characteristics

- A non-mobile center (Love AJ and Isaac but they are plodders)
- A non-athletic wing (Swanigan should be a 5 in our offense)
- Three guards that struggle to create shots (RayDay, PJ, Hill, Cline, and Mathias)

I think we have talented pieces but collectively they are not a good fit for the motion offense. Tonight we made our run with Biggie at the 5 and Vince at the 4. Last year we had more success with Vince at the 4 and an athletic lead guard in Octeus. This flaw in linking strategy with personnel becomes even more apparent for us when we play very athletic teams - IU, Maryland, etc.

 

[Cevol03]

also, our bigs are exposed on defense by athletic teams with undersized bigs who can shoot

 

[BoilerFan#35]

I wouldn't call Robbie athletic he was extremely scrappy. Kramer and LewJack didn't create shots they took what the defense gave them. Lastly AJ is very mobile for his size and if it weren't for his age he would probably be a top 5 pick.

 

[TJBoiler]

I wouldn't call Robbie athletic he was extremely scrappy. Kramer and LewJack didn't create shots they took what the defense gave them. Lastly AJ is very mobile for his size and if it weren't for his age he would probably be a top 5 pick.

I watch these players and you can complain about the Offense or Painter but what exactly does Ray and PJ do consistently. Ray has a great 1st half against MSU and has disappeared since. What does PJ do consistently? It seems like all these players will step up and make plays in one game then disappear in the next.

Anyway I didn't have a problem with the effort tonite. Purdue didn't play well for most of the game still came back from 19 got very close. IU is great at home but I am sure IU fans realize Purdue didn't play well was down 19 and got very close.

 

[FLAG HUNTER]

Purdue played better speeding the game up

 

[hoosierdog1]

Purdue played better speeding the game up

Yep I've been saying the same thing for a long time.Up tempo !!

 

[PBoiler84]

I agree! When you look at the first half of 1st Iowa game, we played up-tempo. Result up by 17 at half. MSU - similar and up 16 at halftime. Then we slow it down and have no offensive flow to the game and we struggle. Lost the Iowa game, almost lost the MSU game. Tonight, once we picked up the tempo we got back in the game. Why doesn't Painter see this?

 

[Schnelk]

I think this team does not handle momentum swings effectively at all. We get down. We stay down. Our upperclassmen should be able to change that, unless they are stuck on the bench or playing injured. I think bad/inconsistent officiating really bothers us too. Might help if CMP got a tech on purpose once in awhile.

 

[BoilerDeac]

I wouldn't call Robbie athletic he was extremely scrappy. Kramer and LewJack didn't create shots they took what the defense gave them. Lastly AJ is very mobile for his size and if it weren't for his age he would probably be a top 5 pick.

Maybe "athletic" isn't the best description, but Hummel was certainly a very, very mobile 4 that could stretch the floor. That is exactly the type of player Purdue needs at the 4...aka Vince Edwards.

 

[TC4THREE]

I spent most of the game trying to figure out why our offense seems so broken - and has looked this way against some of the more talented teams we have played this year. I really think our current personnel are a bad fit for the motion offense (at least the way we run the motion offense). In the last 10 years, we have had our most success with the following five player combination:

- A mobile center (JaJuan Johnson)
- An athletic wing (Robbie, Vince when he is playing the 4)
- Three athletic guards that can create shots (Etwaun, LewJack, Octeus, Keaton Grant, Kramer)

With our current configuration of personnel we don't have any of these characteristics

- A non-mobile center (Love AJ and Isaac but they are plodders)
- A non-athletic wing (Swanigan should be a 5 in our offense)
- Three guards that struggle to create shots (RayDay, PJ, Hill, Cline, and Mathias)

I think we have talented pieces but collectively they are not a good fit for the motion offense. Tonight we made our run with Biggie at the 5 and Vince at the 4. Last year we had more success with Vince at the 4 and an athletic lead guard in Octeus. This flaw in linking strategy with personnel becomes even more apparent for us when we play very athletic teams - IU, Maryland, etc.

I've been saying this about Swanigan since he committed to MSU and everyone here was freaking out about it. I think our offense is better with Vince at the 4 anyway.

 

[cprh9u]

I spent most of the game trying to figure out why our offense seems so broken - and has looked this way against some of the more talented teams we have played this year. I really think our current personnel are a bad fit for the motion offense (at least the way we run the motion offense). In the last 10 years, we have had our most success with the following five player combination:

- A mobile center (JaJuan Johnson)
- An athletic wing (Robbie, Vince when he is playing the 4)
- Three athletic guards that can create shots (Etwaun, LewJack, Octeus, Keaton Grant, Kramer)

With our current configuration of personnel we don't have any of these characteristics

- A non-mobile center (Love AJ and Isaac but they are plodders)
- A non-athletic wing (Swanigan should be a 5 in our offense)
- Three guards that struggle to create shots (RayDay, PJ, Hill, Cline, and Mathias)

I think we have talented pieces but collectively they are not a good fit for the motion offense. Tonight we made our run with Biggie at the 5 and Vince at the 4. Last year we had more success with Vince at the 4 and an athletic lead guard in Octeus. This flaw in linking strategy with personnel becomes even more apparent for us when we play very athletic teams - IU, Maryland, etc.

You realize the only team(s) in Painter's 11 years that fit this description are when we had the baby boilers right? Seems our offense isn't getting better unless we get JJ, Moore and Robbie back, which isn't happening. Hmm, maybe CMP should change things up to fit our personnel? That's what good coaches do.

 

[IamBob]

Just my opinion, there was some sort of deal to make Caleb a forward in order to get him here. Could there be some sort of deal or persuasion made to him that he would be more of a star if he moved to at least part time center next year? On more than a few trips in the 2nd half, he seemed to be posting up well.

Secondly, since we are talking about the motion offense, I'll reiterate my desire to play around with Tex Winter's triangle offense. Of course everything is dependent on who is suited up and what teams are throwing at you.

 

[Cevol03]

You realize the only team(s) in Painter's 11 years that fit this description are when we had the baby boilers right? Seems our offense isn't getting better unless we get JJ, Moore and Robbie back, which isn't happening. Hmm, maybe CMP should change things up to fit our personnel? That's what good coaches do.

thats not entirely true. Our offense more closely resembled this offense last year when we had Octeus at point guard and VE at the 4.

 

[cprh9u]

thats not entirely true. Our offense more closely resembled this offense last year when we had Octeus at point guard and VE at the 4.

Who was the mobile center, and who were the 2 athletic guards that could create their shot beyond Octeus? RD? Stephens? Mathias? I don't disagree with your overall idea, but we haven't had that personnel in years.

 

[Cevol03]

Who was the mobile center, and who were the 2 athletic guards that could create their shot beyond Octeus? RD? Stephens? Mathias? I don't disagree with your overall idea, but we haven't had that personnel in years.

I'm not saying we had the perfect personnel combo last year - we got bounced in the first round, so clearly it wasn't perfect. I said it "more closely" resembled our offense from the baby boiler years. All I'm saying is that last season is another data point that argues for different personnel in the motion offense than we currently have this year. That seems like a no-brainer.

 

[BoilerDeac]

I'm not saying we had the perfect personnel combo last year - we got bounced in the first round, so clearly it wasn't perfect. But we were closer. All I'm saying is that last season is another data point that argues for different personnel in the motion offense than we currently have this year.

#VinceAtThe4

 

[olafmetal]

I'm sure we will see some plenty of lineups with out Hass next year. I'm kind of curious what a 4x4 lineup of Caleb, JT, Vince, and Basil would look like.

 

[boilerart]

I really think this team would be so much better with an up-tempo occasional full-court press o-d. We have the depth, we have big guys that can rebound and go(Biggie, Vince ) and Dakota and Ray are good rebounders that can go. Even with AJ trailing he can spot up that 17 footer. Even Haas might like it to stretch those legs out some. Our offence now consists of PJ going 50 % up court court then go into our little weave motion that does nothing but waste clock, get the ball to wing then have some think time( do I pass it in??) and then its 10 seconds on shot clock lets panic! Too many times this yr Ive seen this. Cant believe our guard cant get the ball in. Aj and Issac bust their ass getting position and the guards just look at them ( except Dakota, my fav on team) I played center and nothing is more frustrating thaan getting position and not getting the ball. Of coarse Matt was a marginal guard who could pass just enough( pretty embossing u get beat out by Waddell) so Im not surprised by lack of teaching.

 

[tjreese]

I spent most of the game trying to figure out why our offense seems so broken - and has looked this way against some of the more talented teams we have played this year. I really think our current personnel are a bad fit for the motion offense (at least the way we run the motion offense). In the last 10 years, we have had our most success with the following five player combination:

- A mobile center (JaJuan Johnson)
- An athletic wing (Robbie, Vince when he is playing the 4)
- Three athletic guards that can create shots (Etwaun, LewJack, Octeus, Keaton Grant, Kramer)

With our current configuration of personnel we don't have any of these characteristics

- A non-mobile center (Love AJ and Isaac but they are plodders)
- A non-athletic wing (Swanigan should be a 5 in our offense)
- Three guards that struggle to create shots (RayDay, PJ, Hill, Cline, and Mathias)

I think we have talented pieces but collectively they are not a good fit for the motion offense. Tonight we made our run with Biggie at the 5 and Vince at the 4. Last year we had more success with Vince at the 4 and an athletic lead guard in Octeus. This flaw in linking strategy with personnel becomes even more apparent for us when we play very athletic teams - IU, Maryland, etc.

understand you want the biggest, most athletic and skilled player possible. Purdue rarely is in play for all those combinations. A couple of years ago Purdue was "reasonably" athletic with super quick Ronnie Johnson and the runner and slicer Terone. Purdue had no skill and couldn't feed teh post. Matt brought in more skill to surround AJ with and Purdue is better. Basketball is basketball, it wouldn't matter if it were motion or not. If you can's shoot outside who is going to guard you? If you can't drive, but shoot...who is going to let you see daylight or help off you?
Now there are times as you alluded that you wonder where the baskets are going to come from...and the dwindling shot clock makes it worse. Purdue has improved the quality of players...and some haven't performed at all like we thought they would...and the clock is winding down. Next year it appears that Carsen adds a quick release if needed PG adn 2017 Purdue is in play for some others. Purdue talent was in toilet after the baby boilers and Purdue is slowly climbing out...

 

[tjreese]

Just my opinion, there was some sort of deal to make Caleb a forward in order to get him here. Could there be some sort of deal or persuasion made to him that he would be more of a star if he moved to at least part time center next year? On more than a few trips in the 2nd half, he seemed to be posting up well.

Secondly, since we are talking about the motion offense, I'll reiterate my desire to play around with Tex Winter's triangle offense. Of course everything is dependent on who is suited up and what teams are throwing at you.

I have never really studied that and always wanted. I'm aware of what a triangle can do offensively, but not Tex's sets. I ordered a book on this and Lee Rose since Lee planned everything before the game was played to not let emotion interfere. That order got messed up and I have't reordered. I'll say this...any offense it is important to execute and that is usually more important than any offense for a given personnel.

 

[FirstDownB]

Just my opinion, there was some sort of deal to make Caleb a forward in order to get him here. Could there be some sort of deal or persuasion made to him that he would be more of a star if he moved to at least part time center next year?

Yes. Its called Painter sits down with Biggie in the off season and explains that there is a slight change in plans and he is going to be splitting time at the 4 and 5 next year. His options are to embrace the role or sit out a year. That's "the deal" and it happens all the time.

 

[BoilerFan#35]

Yes. Its called Painter sits down with Biggie in the off season and explains that there is a slight change in plans and he is going to be splitting time at the 4 and 5 next year. His options are to embrace the role or sit out a year. That's "the deal" and it happens all the time.

I think if we played a 3-2 zone Biggie would do just fine on defense. Just can't have him guarding the most athletic guys on the other team. Him and Hammons on the bottom of the zone would be so hard to get through. I don't think a zone would work with Isaac because he could probably get back cut by my grandpa

 

[atmafola]

Yes. Its called Painter sits down with Biggie in the off season and explains that there is a slight change in plans and he is going to be splitting time at the 4 and 5 next year. His options are to embrace the role or sit out a year. That's "the deal" and it happens all the time.

He was always going to split time at 4 and 5 next year anyways. Haas is not going to play 40mins/game next year.

 

[FirstDownB]

He was always going to split time at 4 and 5 next year anyways. Haas is not going to play 40mins/game next year.

Good point. Not sure if that was clear to him up front or if he was even thinking of a Sophomore season, but it is reality.

 

[mryankee2397]

lack of motion offense more like it

 

[mathboy]

He was always going to split time at 4 and 5 next year anyways. Haas is not going to play 40mins/game next year.

I don't know about that. I think Taylor and Swanigan would make a hell of a pair of post players. We could look very different when Haas goes out and Taylor comes in. That could be very difficult to prepare for and to coach against.

All in all, I find so little diffierence between 3's 4's & 5's in the motion offense - except the 5 usually posts up in the paint with his back to the basket. I can see all of our 4's doing that next year.

 

[tjreese]

I think if we played a 3-2 zone Biggie would do just fine on defense. Just can't have him guarding the most athletic guys on the other team. Him and Hammons on the bottom of the zone would be so hard to get through. I don't think a zone would work with Isaac because he could probably get back cut by my grandpa

His inability to contend the baseline shot off a pass (maybe on a dribble he could a little) puts him out in space and vulnerable to a quick pass behind him. He would work better in that scenario in a 3-2 that goes to a 2-3 when the ball moves to the baseline. In that he would be in the middle of the 3 when then ball is high and drop down to the middle of the 3 when the ball dropped. People like a quicker guy to make a drop, but to get benefits of width by the 3 across on top and benefits of 3 on the baseline when low that would be it other than playing a straight 2-3 or match-up out of the 2-3...