Morgan's Plans

[BoilerStutz]

Plan A - get Tiller out the door. He was not winning as often, and kept asking for competitive salaries for his assistants. What a pain!

Plan B - secretly hire Paul Chryst from Wisconsin and force beloved Coach-In-Waiting approach on both Chryst and Tiller. What - neither one want to do it?

Plan C - bring in Danny Hope. Never mind that he is not head coaching material. Hey, his former linemen love him!

Plan D - well, "futuristic recruiting" in Florida does not work it turns out. Get rid of Hope, but tell his former players first (bad form).

Plan E - bag Hope and hire Butch Davis. What - he would rather go to Tennessee? Quick, empty the bank and hire the hot kid from the MAC school. Never mind that he has not proven himself over time. Just get some coordinators with some big time experience (never mind they had both failed miserably).

Plan F - holy smokes, this program is historically bad. It is on par with IU's worst football teams. What in the heck do I do now?

Suggestion: get out of the way, Morgan, and let someone else make the decisions about this program. You have buried this program - statistically it is at or near the all-time low.​

 

[BoilermakerD]

Plan A - get Tiller out the door. He was not winning as often, and kept asking for competitive salaries for his assistants. What a pain!

Plan B - secretly hire Paul Chryst from Wisconsin and force beloved Coach-In-Waiting approach on both Chryst and Tiller. What - neither one want to do it?

Plan C - bring in Danny Hope. Never mind that he is not head coaching material. Hey, his former lineman love him!

Plan D - well "futuristic recruiting" in Florida only does not work it turns out. Get rid of Hope, but tell his former players first (bad form).

Plan E - bag Hope and hire Butch Davis. What - he would rather go to Tennessee? Quick, empty the bank and hire the hot kid from the MAC school. Never mind that he has not proven himself over time. Just get some coordinators with some big time experience (never mind they had both failed miserably).

Plan F - holy smokes, this program is historically bad. It is on par with IU's worst football teams. What in the heck do I do now?

Suggestion: get out of the way, Morgan, and let someone else make the decisions about this program. You have buried this program - statistically it is at or near the all-time low.​

What if I told you it doesn't matter? Welcome to corporate dominated America. Turn on a revenue stream that doesn't rely on Purdue fans buying a single ticket (big ten network)... Deny access to the average fan basically ensuring that 97% of people can be unhappy so long as none of them have a voice... Then, simply talk as if you're successful or even "not that bad"... Because it doesn't matter if you crash the market and take a 880 bill bail out.. So long as you talk the talk, don't go to prison and make sure you get a raise off the bail out.

Why should you get a good athletic department? Are you gonna provide big ten network money?

 

[Redhotfill]

What if I told you it doesn't matter? Welcome to corporate dominated America. Turn on a revenue stream that doesn't rely on Purdue fans buying a single ticket (big ten network)... Deny access to the average fan basically ensuring that 97% of people can be unhappy so long as none of them have a voice... Then, simply talk as if you're successful or even "not that bad"... Because it doesn't matter if you crash the market and take a 880 bill bail out.. So long as you talk the talk, don't go to prison and make sure you get a raise off the bail out.

Why should you get a good athletic department? Are you gonna provide big ten network money?

I might just contact big ten network sponsors to tell them I'm not buying any goods or services from them because they put $$ into the hands of incompetents like MB.

 

[njm8845]

Who would you have hired over hazell?

Hiring a coach who built a MAC program seems like the right formula. It just didn't pan out. Let me remind you he had grigson, Smith, and polian consulting.

 

[SIBoiler2]

Who would you have hired over hazell?

Hiring a coach who built a MAC program seems like the right formula. It just didn't pan out. Let me remind you he had grigson, Smith, and polian consulting.

Hazell didn't build squat in the MAC. His big year was with somebody else's recruits. As for Grigson, he's too stupid to draft linemen to protect his QB and now the Colts appear to be Luckless.

 

[njm8845]

They may have been someone else's recruits, but it wasn't an uber talented bunch, even by MAC standards. The team won 11 games with hazell and then 4 the next year. So he was doing something right. It just hasn't translated. At all.

Some Purdue fans want grigson.as the next AD.

I guess my point is that whereas I think Burke needs to go, I don't like calling him an idiot. He hasn't done his job effectively, that's all.

 

[SIBoiler2]

They may have been someone else's recruits, but it wasn't an uber talented bunch, even by MAC standards. The team won 11 games with hazell and then 4 the next year. So he was doing something right. It just hasn't translated. At all.

Some Purdue fans want grigson.as the next AD.

I guess my point is that whereas I think Burke needs to go, I don't like calling him an idiot. He hasn't done his job effectively, that's all.

What do you expect when you hire a swimmer to run a major sports program?

 

[BoilerStutz]

That's just it. Hazell did NOT build a MAC program. He used talent others recruited, and had ONE big year.

What would I do? I would try to understand the unique football situation at Purdue. For example, power football has not worked at Purdue in decades. Shoop tried to run power his first year here. Offensively Purdue has to do it with some smoke and mirrors.

I would not hire a coach whos formatitve development was at a recruiting powerhouse. OSU always has top talent to work with. Purdue never has top talent. It is highly likely that Hazell is a poor judge of talent as he has always been awash in it. Tiller was just the opposite. He had spent his life looking for hidden gems.

I would also look for a coach who has been able to attract talent to an out of the way place. West Lafayette is not a destination for hot shot college football players.

I would hire an entire coaching staff. I was worried from the get-go when Hazell had so much trouble filling out his staff. Like surgical teams, you like your coaching staffs to have experienced lots of ups and downs together. That they are a highly performing team matters.

I would not get too excited about a bunch of NFL guys telling Purdue what to do. Rather, I would ask guys like Tiller what they think. The football guys at Boise State and other unlikely places are also helpful.

 

[IndySouthsider]

What do you expect when you hire a swimmer to run a major sports program?

What does being a swimmer have to do with it? Kind f an ahole statement to swimmers. Who are vastly more athletic than football players.

 

[Heiner]

What does being a swimmer have to do with it? Kind f an ahole statement to swimmers. Who are vastly more athletic than football players.

Easy big fella.

 

[Casual_Poster]

"What does being a swimmer have to do with it? Kind f an ahole statement to swimmers. Who are vastly more athletic than football players."

Please never post your opinion on a public sports forum ever again. Being good at exercising does not equal athleticism.

 

[Cevol03]

My guess is that the new plan is to hire Brock Spack.

 

[banshee90]

Who would you have hired over hazell?

Hiring a coach who built a MAC program seems like the right formula. It just didn't pan out. Let me remind you he had grigson, Smith, and polian consulting.

You don't hire that at 2 mil a year for 6 years

 

[Courthouse Carp]

What do you expect when you hire a swimmer to run a major sports program?

 

[AZboiler]

What if I told you it doesn't matter? Welcome to corporate dominated America. Turn on a revenue stream that doesn't rely on Purdue fans buying a single ticket (big ten network)... Deny access to the average fan basically ensuring that 97% of people can be unhappy so long as none of them have a voice... Then, simply talk as if you're successful or even "not that bad"... Because it doesn't matter if you crash the market and take a 880 bill bail out.. So long as you talk the talk, don't go to prison and make sure you get a raise off the bail out.

Why should you get a good athletic department? Are you gonna provide big ten network money?

Very much reminds me of how the current white house explains everything … JV to whatever… completely in effective.. If change is not made either by the end of this season, the entire Athletic Programs of Purdue will be at risk….

 

[njm8845]

I would not get too excited about a bunch of NFL guys telling Purdue what to do. Rather, I would ask guys like Tiller what they think. The football guys at Boise State and other unlikely places are also helpful.

Don't forget tiller's first choice was spack. I don't think that would have worked out much better than hope.

As for not hiring hazell for $2M, I trust in Burke's conservatism that that was the best deal we could get. We whiffed on butch and maybe someone else, and the pressure was on to get somebody. Let's also not forget that most of the fanbase was pumped about the hire. We weren't calling for Burke's head when we signed hazell, we were saying "finally, Burke is spending money on football".

Charlie strong, Mike leach, muschamp, weis, etc. Sometimes coaches don't work out. Even the big schools have this problem. Mich whiffed twice (for them) before hitting a home run. ND had a long spell of disappointing hires. Doesn't mean they were all idiots.

I think the hiring process was right for purdue the last time. Time to do it again, probably with a different guy running the show.

 

[Heiner]

Don't forget tiller's first choice was spack. I don't think that would have worked out much better than hope.

As for not hiring hazell for $2M, I trust in Burke's conservatism that that was the best deal we could get. We whiffed on butch and maybe someone else, and the pressure was on to get somebody. Let's also not forget that most of the fanbase was pumped about the hire. We weren't calling for Burke's head when we signed hazell, we were saying "finally, Burke is spending money on football".

Charlie strong, Mike leach, muschamp, weis, etc. Sometimes coaches don't work out. Even the big schools have this problem. Mich whiffed twice (for them) before hitting a home run. ND had a long spell of disappointing hires. Doesn't mean they were all idiots.

I think the hiring process was right for purdue the last time. Time to do it again, probably with a different guy running the show.

I like reading posts from people that "get it"

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Who would you have hired over hazell?

Hiring a coach who built a MAC program seems like the right formula. It just didn't pan out. Let me remind you he had grigson, Smith, and polian consulting.

Please explain what Hazell built in the MAC? One good season with someone else's recruits.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Don't forget tiller's first choice was spack. I don't think that would have worked out much better than hope.

As for not hiring hazell for $2M, I trust in Burke's conservatism that that was the best deal we could get. We whiffed on butch and maybe someone else, and the pressure was on to get somebody. Let's also not forget that most of the fanbase was pumped about the hire. We weren't calling for Burke's head when we signed hazell, we were saying "finally, Burke is spending money on football".

Charlie strong, Mike leach, muschamp, weis, etc. Sometimes coaches don't work out. Even the big schools have this problem. Mich whiffed twice (for them) before hitting a home run. ND had a long spell of disappointing hires. Doesn't mean they were all idiots.

I think the hiring process was right for purdue the last time. Time to do it again, probably with a different guy running the show.

I believe the fan base was pretty much against the hire at the time. Most understood that Hazell had "worked wonders at a MAC school with someone else's recruits".

 

[njm8845]

2010 - 5 wins under Martin
2011 - 5 wins under hazell
2012 - 11 wins under hazell
2013 - 4 wins under Haynes
2014 - 2 wins under Haynes

Kent state was not in any way an established program under Martin. And they didn't have a stockpile of talent even by MAC standards.

 

[njm8845]

"Someone else's recruits" is a silly argument. So what - its obvious that they didn't have all world talent by both rankings and by the team records before and after hazell.

There's no way you can say most of the fanbase was against the hire. He's well spoken, was coming off a fantastic year, and hope was not exciting. That's why ticket sales spiked his first year- because the fanbase was pumped.

 

[BeerbellyBoiler]

Who would you have hired over hazell?

Hiring a coach who built a MAC program seems like the right formula. It just didn't pan out. Let me remind you he had grigson, Smith, and polian consulting.

Right there sums it up. Look at two of the 3 mentioned. Other than JJ what has Rick Smith done with Houston? Other than Luck falling into Grigson lap he has made Colts a hot mess and Polian is only one with proven track record of building anything successful.

 

[indyogb]

They may have been someone else's recruits, but it wasn't an uber talented bunch, even by MAC standards. The team won 11 games with hazell and then 4 the next year. So he was doing something right. It just hasn't translated. At all.

Some Purdue fans want grigson.as the next AD.

I guess my point is that whereas I think Burke needs to go, I don't like calling him an idiot. He hasn't done his job effectively, that's all.

God, please do not bring Grigson here. He isn't a horrible GM, but his "misses" are really starting to show with the Colts.

Otherwise, I agree - Hazell seemed like a decent hire at the time (whereas the Hope hire, seemed totally based on finding the cheapest guy). Burke even opened up the wallet for him. Sadly, it is obvious this is not working and is not going to work. I think Burke (who I like and think has done a pretty good job - hired Painter and Tiller) should take on a different job until retirement and a new AD should be found. The new AD should then hire the next coach. All of this would have to happen pretty quickly, however, as coaches get snatched up right as the season ends.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

"Someone else's recruits" is a silly argument. So what - its obvious that they didn't have all world talent by both rankings and by the team records before and after hazell.

There's no way you can say most of the fanbase was against the hire. He's well spoken, was coming off a fantastic year, and hope was not exciting. That's why ticket sales spiked his first year- because the fanbase was pumped.

Coach, I'm well spoken, but that doesn't qualify me to be the head coach of a Division1 football program, though I'm not sure I couldn't have done as well as the current Purdue fiasco. Hell, a staff comprised from half the posters on here could have produced more than Hazell's five wins. Tell me what those current ticket sales are now....and how poor they will be next year. As one who questioned the hiring of a "one year wonder" when the hiring occurred, I stand by my original statement that Burke screwed the pooch when he brought Hazell in. And as one who predicted three wins this year, I sadly admit I was wrong. There may not be another win this season....even against Indiana. As for "whiffing" on Butch Jones, until yesterday's upset of Georgia, the VolNation was calling for Butch's head....and will be again with the next loss.

 

[SIBoiler2]

2010 - 5 wins under Martin
2011 - 5 wins under hazell
2012 - 11 wins under hazell
2013 - 4 wins under Haynes
2014 - 2 wins under Haynes

Kent state was not in any way an established program under Martin. And they didn't have a stockpile of talent even by MAC standards.

So I guess you think we should put up with the current crap waiting for the maybe, hopefully, possibly one good season.

 

[njm8845]

Absolutely not. I tend to side with those that say he should be gone today.

My argument is that i believe the process of hiring hazell was the right one. Just didn't work out. People without responsibility love mocking old decisions. People with responsibility try to fix the current problems.

I'm also on record as saying we also need a new AD pronto, by the way.

 

[IndySouthsider]

"What does being a swimmer have to do with it? Kind f an ahole statement to swimmers. Who are vastly more athletic than football players."

Please never post your opinion on a public sports forum ever again. Being good at exercising does not equal athleticism.

Stay ignorant my friend. Try spending time with AA and above swimmers at the pool. They can lift, run and compete with any athletes.

 

[njm8845]

I thought you were joking about swimmers earlier.

If swimmers are the most athletic, why don't they decide to play a sport that they at least have a chance of making money in?

Go to any high school, and swim teams get 3rd tier talent, at best. And I was a swimmer.

 

[SIBoiler2]

Stay ignorant my friend. Try spending time with AA and above swimmers at the pool. They can lift, run and compete with any athletes.

Since your panties (obviously speedos) are still in a bunch over my comment about swimmers let me clarify for you. I never implied that swimmers or any other athletic enthusiasts were less athletic than anyone else. My point was that hiring someone who's own athletic interest is in swimming and non-major, non-revenue producing sports might not be in the best interest of your major programs that do produce the $$$ for your entire athletic department. I believe my thinking is supported by the current trend where Emperor Nero (MB) has fiddled around building great venues for all other sports while watching the football program burn down to the few remaining dull embers that exist and had Painter not pushed them a couple of years ago we'd likely see a MAC or less level coach running a similar program in Mackey. Hopefully this will quiet your nerves and unbunch you panties for today.

 

[threeeputtt]

Absolutely not. I tend to side with those that say he should be gone today.

My argument is that i believe the process of hiring hazell was the right one. Just didn't work out. People without responsibility love mocking old decisions. People with responsibility try to fix the current problems.

I'm also on record as saying we also need a new AD pronto, by the way.

100% correct!

 

[StateStreet123]

Stay ignorant my friend. Try spending time with AA and above swimmers at the pool. They can lift, run and compete with any athletes.

I think we need to clarify this argument. Are we saying swimmers are more athletic than football players? Or are we saying swimmers are more athletic than Purdue football players?

 

[*Shockerrr*]

I've kept my mouth shut for the last few years to give them a chance to prove their self but I'm sick and tired of it now! Seems like one week the team looks improved and everyone gets all excited on a moral victory "MSU game" then the next game play horrible. This comes down to not having Big10 talent on your roster and playing calling by the coaches. Morgan should just leave cause it ain't getting any better with him in charge!

 

[banshee90]

I didn't have an issue with the Hazell being hired and still don't it seemed like a great get. What we need to be looking at isn't the hire its the Moronic contract Burke gave him. 6 years for a coach that had 1 standout year oh and BTW its 2 mill/year. That is about 1 year too many and ~.5 mill too much. Next is the yeah you can coach your team to its bowl loss. Hmm morgan I wonder why every other competitive team doesn't let their new coach just finish out the season with his team... Maybe its because they need to hit the recruiting and coach hiring trails. Assistant coaches if we had an additional .5 mill/year maybe we get better assistants IE anyone but Shoop. Next up after year 1 we looked like a hot mess and it was pretty obvious that shoop was overthinking the offense and didn't put the right personnel out there. The season is basically over maybe we should put in our redshirt freshman Appleby and see what he can do... Nah lets burn the redshirt on our other QB... Burke should have pressured for the firing of shoop after year 1. Year 2 same old same old but with a couple more wins. Year 3 team gave up by week 4.

If burke could negotiate we could be sitting at the end of year 3 with a $3-4 million buyout, instead its $6 million. 3 years left in the contract but there is no way Hazell can change any of his personnel. The only way we can attract someone to OC at purdue would be if we sign them to a 1 mill/yr contract and give them an associate head coach title.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

I believe the fan base was pretty much against the hire at the time. Most understood that Hazell had "worked wonders at a MAC school with someone else's recruits".

You have a very different recollection of the reaction than I do. This board was probably at least 75% positive after seeing Hazell at the first press conference and seeing the year he had at KS. It was also a hire that was largely lauded in the press.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

I didn't have an issue with the Hazell being hired and still don't it seemed like a great get. What we need to be looking at isn't the hire its the Moronic contract Burke gave him. 6 years for a coach that had 1 standout year oh and BTW its 2 mill/year. That is about 1 year too many and ~.5 mill too much. Next is the yeah you can coach your team to its bowl loss. Hmm morgan I wonder why every other competitive team doesn't let their new coach just finish out the season with his team... Maybe its because they need to hit the recruiting and coach hiring trails. Assistant coaches if we had an additional .5 mill/year maybe we get better assistants IE anyone but Shoop. Next up after year 1 we looked like a hot mess and it was pretty obvious that shoop was overthinking the offense and didn't put the right personnel out there. The season is basically over maybe we should put in our redshirt freshman Appleby and see what he can do... Nah lets burn the redshirt on our other QB... Burke should have pressured for the firing of shoop after year 1. Year 2 same old same old but with a couple more wins. Year 3 team gave up by week 4.

If burke could negotiate we could be sitting at the end of year 3 with a $3-4 million buyout, instead its $6 million. 3 years left in the contract but there is no way Hazell can change any of his personnel. The only way we can attract someone to OC at purdue would be if we sign them to a 1 mill/yr contract and give them an associate head coach title.

I get confused trying to remember if this board thinks Burke is too cheap or spends money too foolishly.

 

[banshee90]

I get confused trying to remember if this board thinks Burke is too cheap or spends money too foolishly.

Burke got burned twice for being too cheap. Danny Hope killed any momentum Tiller left and Painter almost jumped ship. So he over corrected, he gave painter a little too much money and def overpaid for Hazell, just looking at the other midmajor to P5 hires they all sit at 1.5 mill/year X 5 years.

This experiment doesn't prove that paying coaches doesn't work out. What it proves is morgan burke is a terrible AD when it comes to contract negotiation. Danny hope and his assistants were making MAC money and It showed.

In closing if we aren't going to fire DH because 6 million over 3 years is too much for the AD then we have to double down but paying for an OC and we will have to drop top 10 money on him.

Eddie Gran maybe, his offense is performing nicely at Cinci maybe 3 years at .5-1 mill/year could steal him away