missing you Doo Dah Day...still around? *NM
- Thread starter tjreese
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I thought that as well. He is knowledgable on the game and I believe got tired of the nonsense...perhaps smarter than manyh of us? Perhaps in time he might offer some thoughts?
This ain't rocket science guys. Pitino tightened up the rims and forced Purdue to shoot threes. The only player we have who could attack that zone was Carsen and he didn't shoot particularly well. Finally I've said for a long time that PJ needs to bring the ball up quicker and push the offense. Too often we don't even get started until less than 20 seconds remain on the shot clock.
absolutely. Teh reduced shot clock aided by pressure against small guards that cannot go over the top eats 8 seconds on the average to get remotely into an area of starting an offense. Now the ball swings to teh wings as most offenses start on the right wing and deny that post feed and if Purdue goes to high post or is forced to swing the ball, that post feed timeleft on teh clock is dwindling down and the clock is playing damn good defense on the slower post players. I've discussed this many times last year. U of L had some length, some depth, lots of athleticism and ate clock in getting the ball across teh court and then let the clock help defend the post play by denying once of twice before Purdue had to shoot it.
It was simple man pressure on the guy bringing the ball up the floor. No reason for it to take that long to get into front court and start offense. PJ is way too deliberate and "careful" because he isn't athletic enough to just go with the ball. Vince took even longer. Once Carsen brought it up you could see the difference.
It is a basic offensive philosophy issue OR the way CMP is teaching the offensive philosophy. As we have seen the offense gel and work at times, I believe the issues are with the way CMP is teaching his offense that leads to him constantly yelling 'MOVE' and the teams apparent lack of ball movement and off the ball movement as well. I think this is also why you see the team play much better after the first half because CMP may make simply adjustments at half. These adjustments obviously can't be major ones due to a minimal amount of time allowed during halftime.
Just a teacher thinking about how the team could struggle consistently with the same issue. If I have a student that constantly struggles learning something by just reading the book, I am going to alter what that student gets and have it read to them orally or listen to it on tape. Maybe CMP needs to adjust the way he is teaching the offense and adjustments from week to week. Maybe he needs to have some one shadow him about his teaching techniques and offer suggestions on how to better implement different strategies or even have his players take a learning style test to determine the best way his players learn and then adjust for each player.
Just a teacher thinking about how the team could struggle consistently with the same issue. If I have a student that constantly struggles learning something by just reading the book, I am going to alter what that student gets and have it read to them orally or listen to it on tape. Maybe CMP needs to adjust the way he is teaching the offense and adjustments from week to week. Maybe he needs to have some one shadow him about his teaching techniques and offer suggestions on how to better implement different strategies or even have his players take a learning style test to determine the best way his players learn and then adjust for each player.
Your first sentence negates the second part completely. He yells 'MOVE' because people aren't doing what they are taught and moving.
If it works "at times" then it can't be the method used to teach or it would never work. So that means it's the people executing it not doing what they are taught.
no question Carsen has the speed to do things PJ and Vince cannot....I fully agree. At this point in time we can depend on PJ being fairly reliable in his shooting and running the team. Carsen is a little more me and less team...and sometimes that is needed..particularly if hitting.
I can find agreement with both of you. First, "movement" will always enhance the potential of an offense and against good D teams is mandatory. Movement by itself will decrease the defensive position in help defense as well as enhance the offensive opportunity for rebounding. People may think it is stupid to say this, but it really will help the team be more effective than otherwise. I also think many people believe that coaches draw up something not practiced and it will or will not work depending on how well the coach draws it up. I believe that more often than not coaches create situations that should help enable what the preferred result is...but that situation will many times be adjusted on the fly by the players placed in a position that can hopefully be executed. There are many approaches to offense and defense that teams win with, and even though I think some are better than others I know it is possible to be successful with those that I do not think are as good. The reality is that execution is what matters. Teams that execute well in whatever approach they do will win more times than not given similar athletic adn sklilled players
TJ, I love you Man. I spent some time with some great friends over the long weekend. While there and after leaving, I was far more calm than I had been for a while. The key they taught me was that regardless of anything anyone says, these days, no one will change. They love their opinion more than they like my facts. That is true in far more arenas than PU basketball, but that is the arena that is referred to here.
I am a coach/educator at heart and truly want to help people understand the facts and supporting evidence of any situation. If you understand Six Sigma in manufacturing and have learned the 5-Whys theory, or even just scientific method of proving a hypothesis before making it a conclusion, .... then you get what I'm saying.
If someone chooses to make WILD guesses at WHY a coach or a players did something without ever being the coach of a talented team playing against talented teams, or a coach recruiting a player against every imaginable reason or lack thereof for that player to choose his school over all the other schools without being a part of a recruiting process, or manipulate some less than relevant data to support their theory, so be it.
I don't want to make anyone see anything my way ... but I do want everyone to grasp the facts ..... something that seems to be in opposition to what many posters on here want to do. So be that too. But, I have people in my life that do want to make better choices and decisions. People who do want to change based on THEIR making better choices. It's far more fun chewing the fat with them ....
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...and I will soon be seeing my daughter in Frederick, Maryland for her baby shower and look forward to that time as well. Her and her husband want me to run some power to their outdoor patio and so I'll soon be trenching a line. His parents and brother will be coming from Germany and that is always interesting learning from each other
I fully understand what you are saying and wasted many years on national educational forums previously trying to share insight with people that never really studied education and had an opinion that they considered to be just as informed through Osmosis I guess. FWIW, I'm VERY familiar with hypothesis testing, Design of Experiments (typically Anova's, regressions, factorials and fractional factorials) 5-why and before that who, what, when, why and where or the five W's. I'm not near as good with my statistics as I was back in the mid 80's when I did it every day, but still have an understanding that many don't. I didn't know MLK said that as I have said that for a looooong time. I guess I was in good company...
OH GOOD. The progression to digging trenches for our daughters and spending time with those who see life from a whole different viewpoint is the culmination of a great life....and I will soon be seeing my daughter in Frederick, Maryland for her baby shower and look forward to that time as well. Her and her husband want me to run some power to their outdoor patio and so I'll soon be trenching a line. His parents and brother will be coming from Germany and that is always interesting learning from each other
Here is Bill Gates' take on thinking (the students in the survey are now about 29/30):
At the core of Gate’s analysis is a new book:
The data comes from the book Academically Adrift, which raises some fundamental and surprising questions about the quality of U.S. undergraduate education. The authors, Richard Arum and Josipa Roksa, are sociologists who analyzed results from essay tests and surveys given to more than 2,000 students at the beginning of their freshman year and the end of their sophomore year. Between 2005 and 2007, data was collected from 24 four-year institutions, including state universities and liberal-arts colleges.
Two key findings have received a lot of attention:
About 45 percent of the students showed no improvement in critical thinking, complex reasoning or written communication during their first two years in college. (On more recent tests, the students didn’t show much improvement in their junior or senior years, either.)
I didn't learn a hell of a lot on my way to a BS. All that changed when I concentrated on an MS. I truly learned to think and write critically and become a professional. The focus paid off several years later when I pursued a clinical doctorate on line and had to be a student and full time employee while doing so. Few are truly employable with just a bachelors degree in today's world.
My daughter said she learned more in the first 6 months after she got her BA than she did in the 4 years of getting it. And yes, a BA/S now is what a HS diploma was 40 years ago. Congrats on getting a PhD while working. A good friend of mine was required to get a masters for the position he had with Caterpillar and it almost killed him (really, it did) while working full time.
I know of what he speaks. Due to a lot of life's circumstances (mostly screwing around and having too good of a time when I first started Purdue) I worked full time midnights at Alcoa and went to school full time during the day from '84-'87 to finish my BS. Had a wife and 4 kids. Never missed dinner with the family or school functions in those years. Lots of focus and sleeping 2-3 hours here and there to get through. Don't regret it now. Quit Alcoa and focused on an MS from '88-'90. Worked the first year as a closer at the old Checker station out on 52 north of campus and the second year had a cushy clinical admin grad assistant's spot. Hard to believe it took me 20 years out of HS to get to the MS and I'm now 26 years past that point. Retirement is calling more loudly each day.
I said before the game that we were getting UL at the wrong time. Right after their first loss and back at their home court. What did Keady say about it is not who you play but...
Just Do It ... Retirement is incredible. Make it work ... No one ever said "I wish I'd worked longer."
I don't think it does but I can see how it can be counter to my second statement. At times, the offense does do well WHEN Painter yells and screams as a reminder. There must be an issue in the way CMP is teaching the offense because that appears to be a major issue from year to year. I know there is only a small number of different ways to teach an offense but a simplified approach may be needed since I get the feeling CMP is a very cerebral coach.
If a manager teaches a subordinate how to do his job, goes on leave, and the subordinate fails while that manager is gone...who's at true fault if the subordinate didn't know how to do the job on their own without the hand holding by the manager?
Except that it isn't. I would have to go look but I believe last season especially our offensive percentage was rather high. It was brought up before the season started and someone posted the numbers and they just don't reflect your comment at all.
It's easy to think that way based on one game, but the overall picture tells a different more promising story.
I'm not talking about overall efficiency. What I am talking about is that for long stretches in games throughout CMP's coaching career, you frequently hear him yelling 'move, move' while players simply stand around the arc. At time you see players doing exactly that and for other periods they are totally stagnant. I don't think it is a player issue and I don't think it is a philosophy issue...there must be a reason for their apparent lack of execution at times (and long stretches) during games beyond blaming players or coaches.
At that point in your argument it is 100% on the player. They are the ones either executing or not executing, not Painter. They clearly have been taught what to do since they do move more times than not, but standing around could be a result of fatigue or a million other things that Painter can't control.
But once on the court, it is on the player to do what they've been taught. If it isn't happening, then that is on the player and why Painter pulls people from the court.
Very true but just trying to propose a possible different angle rather than blaming CMP for bad coaching or players for being 'dumb.'
First before I respond, thank you for engaging in a civil and worthwhile discussion. It happens very infrequently on here.
Second, I can't even pretend to know what is going on during the game. All any of us has is our own perception and chances are whatever we perceive to be going on, isn't really what is happening.
Personally I think the standing around is fatigue myself. And that can be cause by just the motion offense in of itself, or maybe how the game is being called as in people getting wore out because a lack of fouls being called or too many disrupting the flow of the game.
Who knows really, but I think there are players on the team and coming in that will change that by adding some needed athleticism. Keep in mind that the new rules were put in place just a short time ago and the players recruited at the time fit the 'old school' model that was effective, now it's a much faster pace game and that doesn't match up tremendously well with our current roster, well not completely. But Eastern and CE at least seem to show Painter is changing to match how the college game now is. But that is just my perspective.
Good post steel. I too am glad to see a civil exchange on here. You both have very interesting points.
Any thread with my name in the title is NOT ALLOWED to be uncivil ... simple ... carry on ...
Guess I never thought about adding more athleticism and it making the motion part of the offense easier and dynamic in the sense of the added dimension of the dribble drive...in the sense that we haven't seen with CMP's teams. Very good point.
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I have found through trial and error that using the ignore function leads to much more civil exchanges on my thread view.
