Been avoiding bringing it up, but man do we miss that kid. His leadership and toughness are needed.
Missing Mason
- Thread starter Schmedly_Whiplash
- Start date
Love Mason, but not sure he would have helped much in the losses and turned them
into wins. He complemented Zach very well but with this lineup, he wouldn’t be able to rebound or guard very well. and more then likely not have that wide open 3. Again, love him and am everything he did, but don’t think it’d be the same for him this year.
I never really saw him as a 4. What Purdue really needs is another BIG man to help out TKR in the paint. We really don’t need another 6’6 perimeter shooter.
I hope he enjoys his days at Duke being a mentor and role player off the bench to help guide their younger players! I believe that’s the role Duke wanted him to play when they invited him to join their team.
I hope he enjoys his days at Duke being a mentor and role player off the bench to help guide their younger players! I believe that’s the role Duke wanted him to play when they invited him to join their team.
I believe Heidi brings more to game. And will keep getting better.
He was a 4 at Purdue because he complemented Zach best that way and was a great guy off the bench to fill in for TKR and give the defense a diff look.
where he would have helped is bringing toughness...bringing an attitude of toughness. When PSU was having a slow whistle, he would have inserted himself in the middle of the physicality. It isn't the skill that would be as big a help as the toughness he had that would have carried over IMO. Might not have made a difference in Ws, but it would have helped in previous games and games in the future.
Yes I don’t disagree there. But we’d still be in the same spot. And not sure he’d even get the mins he’s getting at Duke right now or that he got last year.
probably no difference in record, but he would have played when Cam wasn't looking at the goal. Purdue is a very young, inexperienced team compared to many teams. As @pubill stated, Cam's ceiling is higher and he is improving. Mason is going to be a successful person after basketball, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if he came back in some GA role with the team. He instilled a fight in the team in spite of some basketball deficiencies.
I completely agree that we miss his toughness and leadership. Other guys are gonna have to step up and it’s clear that they are still figuring that out, which is not surprising.
I’m not sure that this team is playing with a ton of joy right now, hopefully they find their way.
Seemed to be real happy after the game today
a matter of differences of opinions perhaps......IMO, you can never have enough guys doing the "dirty work" or "little things" - scrambling for loose balls and tough boards, making guys think twice in the paint, etc. Plus, it's hard to put a value (for one because it doesn't show up directly in the box score) the toughness factor TJ mentioned......having the opponent know he's not going to back down, and if you want to bring the fight.......then you better bring it, pal, kinda guys. easier said than done.
I understand what he’s saying but I’m trying to tell you guys that he may not be playing those same 20-25 mins this year as he did last year and therefore not have those opportunities as much. I guess he could instill that in practice, so yes that’s deeply missed.
I'm agreeing to disagree because I think he'd be playing.....maybe not 20 or 25 minutes but enough. JMHO.
We'll never know, though......not even tomorrow.
Agreed. He's significantly better than Furst or Berg, so when we go two bigs, he'd be in there.I'm agreeing to disagree because I think he'd be playing.....maybe not 20 or 25 minutes but enough. JMHO.
We'll never know, though......not even tomorrow.
He's a serious threat from three which would open things up for TKR. It would also open things up with hard hedging a little as he'd be covered by a forward who might be less used to guarding a perimeter player.
He also doesn't have the yips Furst has right now. I don't think we beat Marquette but I think PSU doesn't turn into a blowout with him.
I know this is hypothetical but, where would Mason have gone if we go two bigs—the 3?
And he is significantly better…at hitting 3s and maybe a tad better at rebounding than Furst and Berg. But he shined because we had a 7’4 guy that covered a lot for him. Mason was 6’6. He can’t guard the 3 (not which enough) and was a bit undersized for guarding the 4, but was able to rebound a bit more as teams keyed on Zach.
In 14 mpg, he is averaging 2 rebounds right now and shooting 28% from 3 (unfortunately). While I love Mason and he was great for Purdue, Zach had a lot to do with his success.
He'd be doing what Furst and Berg mostly do, either spelling TKR or more likely playing next to him when we go bigger.
He wouldn't do worse than Heide at guarding 4s. He would be an improvement in Berg for sure and on the current incarnation of Furst. He would not be better than Jacobson although he certainly could have played the 4 next to him to spell TKR.
Duke is a completely different team and system so I don't think his stats there say anything about how he would fit here in a system he'd been playing in his whole college career.
I'm pretty sure if Matt had the room he wouldn't tell Mason anything but welcome back. Obviously, at the time, it was a moot point.
Mason made the decision to move on. Paint said he’d have a spot if he wanted it.
Mason is 6’6 and would not spell TKR. Heide is a much better defender. Zach covered up a lot of what Mason lacks.
I gave you his stats because he’s not playing with Zach anymore and his stats wouldn’t be 50% from 3 or anything more than 4 boards a game here at Purdue. If he did stay, he’d take away mins from Heide and that’s not a good thing. That lineup would be very slow and one less person who can create their own shot or get by the defense.
Heide is not a much better defender. I get it, you really like Heide. Heide has a long way to go to being a consistent player.
But it doesn't matter because he wouldn't be competing with Heide for playing time, he'd be competing with Furst and Berg and I don't see how anyone can think if those are your three options that Gillis isn't the best of the three. I'm pretty sure not only would Duke not take the other two but neither would see more than mop up end of bench blow out minutes for them.
I mean I like Heide because he’s the better player and gives Purdue a dynamic that Gillis does not. Also, not sure why you think Gillis was this great defender?? He was never a liability though—do you think Heide is ?
But I am trying to say Gillis excelled because he had Zach and most attention was put on Zach and Gillis was a great complement to Zach.
Gillis is giving up 4-6 inches to Furst and Berg. Gillis would not have guard queen or Reese yesterday or even the 7 footer for PSU. He would not be able to rebound as well, maybe box out a bit better but those guys could jump over him. I think Berg and Furst are different players than Mason and Mason would not have been competing for mins vs them. It would have been maybe TKR like you said but if he did, then that would be a very slow lineup and an even smaller one than now.
Teams also would play Mason for the pop off the PnR because he is not a threat down low.l or to make mid range. He was very good off of Zach and got those open looks because 2-3 guys were focused on Zach. UConn realized that and took thar away in the NC.
1. I think Heide is a good but not great defender. I think Gillis was also a good but not great defender. I think Heide is certainly better at defending wings but Gillis is roughly as good at defending bigger players which is where he'd be mostly playing.
2. Queen got 26ish points yesterday. So it's not like Berg or Furst slowed him down in the slightest. Neither did TKR to be fair but the offensive threat Gillis brings would help us on the offensive end way more than Berg or Furst have. And we'd get similar defensive production.
3. What is Berg or Furst a threat to do? Gillis at least has the reputation of three point shooting which means he draws out bigs on offense in a way the other two are not which could open things up for TKR. UCONN took everything we did away except Edey so I'm not sure that's any more and indictment of Gillis than Loyer or Smith or anyone else on the team. They made the correct choice that Edey can have his and they'd lock everyone else down.
4. Duke didn't take Gillis because Edey transferred over so I'm pretty sure they saw some individual talent in him without Edey. The fact that Painter would have taken him back shows he did too. No one is saying Gillis is shooting 50 percent from three or is dominating, but he absolutely would have helped this team and no he wouldn't take minutes away from Heide. That person was Jacobsen but he's hurt because that slides TKR to the 4 which is what is going to happen next season anyways.
5. You didn't like the idea of a portal 4 next season either because again you thought it would take minutes from Heide. I like Heide. I am glad he's here. I think as a senior he's going to be a, wait for it, Gillis-like performer who hits threes and plays good defense and rebounds. I think he has a chance at stardom but he's going to need to be a lot more consistent and aggressive than he's shown so far. I think it's not a guarantee he's going to be so good that we can't let anyone else come and take minutes at the 4 lest he lose some minutes there.
We rolled into this season with Jacobsen and TKR with Heide as a viable option against smaller 4s and then Berg and Furst for spot minutes and that was a viable plan where you don't necessarily need a Gillis like player.
But now we see that Jacobsen is hurt, Heide is still inconsistent (to be fair so is Colvin), and Berg and Furst for different reasons are struggling to provide meaningful minutes. So yeah, having a player like Gillis would help this team. Is that an indictment of anyone? No. Painter didn't run him off, and no one could have predicted a freak broken leg. But yeah, Gillis would have helped and it's a bit mind boggling to me anyone would disagree.
1. Not sure we actually know if Gillis is better at defending bigs, as we did not see him much, if at all, with TKR at the 5 and Gillis at the 4. He always had Zach backing him up. So tough to compare IMO.
2. Gillis is slower than Heide and would play the 4, so if he played with TKR, I think we are slower as a team and not sure he’s getting a ton of open 3s, but with Braden anything is possible, I suppose. Gillis would have been downright bullied by Queen or JuJu. Did you not see Broome dunk on him?
3. Yeah, he’s a better shooter than those two. But also 4-6 inches shorter, would be a mismatch on the defensive end if teams are at 2 bigs 6’10+. But I can understand your point here, just don’t think it’d work that much better, maybe a bit.
4. Duke took Gillis cuz he showed he was a good shooter from 3 (50%) and possibly be a good complement to Flagg or their other pieces—maybe be an enforcer and a veteran who wouldn’t get shook in big time games. And Paint would take him, Morton and edey back. He said so in an interview. But it wouldn’t guarantee Mason was going to play his usual 20/g minutes.
5. Gillis isn’t a 4 for this team. They’d play too slow and be smaller. And what transfer is coming to a team with no guaranteed playing time, potentially not that much $$ and to be the 4th-6th option on option? Not sure why a lot of posters think these guys grow on trees and that they’d absolutely want to come here under those circumstances. We also had no room, but next year we will. And through ten games in his sophomore season, Heide is, wait for it, already “Gillis like” by averaging similar, if not better numbers as sophomore Gillis did through his first ten games and shooting very similar %s and is looking like he’s only getting better. Heides athleticism gives him morning an advantage as well, can block shots, grab boards and go in for the oop on fast breaks or near the hoop.
But all good, my mind is just boggled since I disagree.
1. Gillis has played the 4 before, and he did it even before Zach was full time starting at the 5. He's certainly not worse at it than Heide. He's a better player than Furst or Berg and those are our only other bigs. Do you think Furst and Berg should never play any minutes so Heide gets more playing time? If not, then I remain confused why you'd say he can't help over them.
2. Who didn't Queen bully? Again no one stopped him, we don't have anyone on the team who can stop those kind of players. Heide isn't. Neither are Berg or Furst. So I don't get the point. What Gillis can do is fill in the break, bring a big out and open things up on the offense. This team was always going to struggle at defense. It's the offensive ability where we win games.
3. Berg barely plays because he can't guard anyone. Furst has been decent defensively but brings almost nothing on offense. Clearly we saw in the last few games Painter keeps trying different options because he's not really happy with any of them. It's a hole. Gillis isn't filling it to perfection by any means but he'd most definitely be value added.
4. No one said he'd play 20 minutes a game. Furst and Berg avg 10 minutes each. I suspect Berg would see the floor in either spot minutes when TKR is in foul trouble, but most of those slot right over to Gillis. So you'd probably have a scenario where Gillis and Furst would add up roughly 20 instead of Furst and Berg. Only it probably would depend on who the opposing 4 was which one got more or less in a game.
5. Gillis plays slower than Berg or Furst? Gillis doesn't slow this team down at all. If you want to argue we'd struggle with him against double bigs sure, of course that's the same issue with Heide. But slow? Not remotely.
Probably all sorts of lineups man. I don't know that Gillis starts. That's a lineup for sure. Another had Heide at the three with Smith and Loyer. Another has Smith, Colvin Heide and Gillis with TKR. Another has one of the frosh.
Gillis wouldn't have to start and play 20+ minutes to help us be better.
Let's circle back to "playing with joy." I think here's where we miss Lance Jones. He always seemed to be smiling & having fun playing the game. Don't know whether that lifted his teammates, but it always did me.
dont' think there's much doubt about that. Some people are just like that. And most people around them respond positively to them.
Helps when you win most of the close games.
I agree that Gillis is better than Furst and Berg. But we would not be that much better off if tkr started at center with Gillis at the 4. Gillis succeeded last year because Edey was being double and tripled teamed. Anybody on our team would have looked good at the 4 last year including Furst.
Last year I said Gillis would make a great assistant coach and by going to Duke he would have a chance to learn from another great coach about a different style of offense and defense. I thought his role at Duke would be as a mentor to their young talent and as a steadying force off the bench. That’s basically what has happened.
Somebody in the know posted last year that Gillis had other things going on in his life. And was not really interested in becoming a coach in the future. Maybe he could become a sports agent like Eugene Parker or a front office executive. I believe Gillis will succeed in whatever endeavor he pursues.
I would totally agree with Purvess about his success last year. If he had stayed, he would not have been the answer people are looking for this year.
Last year I said Gillis would make a great assistant coach and by going to Duke he would have a chance to learn from another great coach about a different style of offense and defense. I thought his role at Duke would be as a mentor to their young talent and as a steadying force off the bench. That’s basically what has happened.
Somebody in the know posted last year that Gillis had other things going on in his life. And was not really interested in becoming a coach in the future. Maybe he could become a sports agent like Eugene Parker or a front office executive. I believe Gillis will succeed in whatever endeavor he pursues.
I would totally agree with Purvess about his success last year. If he had stayed, he would not have been the answer people are looking for this year.
Not saying Gillis wouldn’t have helped, but departure opened up a lot of minutes for Heide and I think that’s a good thing. Heide can do a lot of the same things that Gillis did, but Gillis can’t really come close to doing the athletic things that Heide does. If Painter can keep this roster in tact through next year, I think that the payoff of Heide stepping into major minutes at the 4 now will be huge.
His ceiling is obviously higher. I did catch a bit of Duke the other day and really enjoyed Mason blocking out how I think it should be taught. He sees his man and gets into him facing him before he thinks about pivoting into him. So many start a pivot before they have good contact...or any contact at times.
