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Migrants invading Europe

Intellectually dishonest, eh?

In the post to which I responded, you said that you "have no problem making permanent asylum for...anyone other than moslems (sic)." In the very next sentence, you refer - without any qualification or limitation - to those Muslims as "jihad monsters." I doubt I'm the only reader who read that to be a statement of your opinion of all Muslims.

I'm not intellectually dishonest - I'm trying to be ethically consistent. People are people, and you can't just ignore that and pretend they don't exist. In your own example, if 12/10,000 are bad guys, you are suggesting that declaring 99.88% of that group to be unwelcome and undeserving of basic human treatment is the only way to prevent the bad guys. That's ludicrous. My guess - and it's only a guess - is that if you took a random sampling of 10,000 of any ethnic or national group, there would be 10-12 criminals. So should we keep all of them out? Close the borders completely and say, "To hell with all of you?"
Intellectually dishonest indeed. You said the inclusion of all moslems was my assumption. It was not my assumption, it was YOUR assumption. It was you made the "asinine assumption" by distorting my comments.

Moslem immigrants do not assimilate. They concentrate into communities where they try to establish Sharia Law and promote fundamentalist Islam. If you learned nothing from the Somolian immigrants in Minneapolis, look at the moslem immigrants in Sweden:

http://swedenreport.org/2015/05/18/police-yes-there-are-no-go-zones-in-sweden/

This issue is not whether any population of 10,000 people will have a couple dozen criminals. A moslem population of 10,000 will have a couple dozen jihadists. A Methodist population of 10,000 will not.
 
"A moslem population of 10,000 will have a couple dozen jihadists."

Source: Illuminati's rear end.
 
lol Yes, let's not "quibble" about your made up statistic.

So, since Minneapolis is a "recruiting ground for Islamic extremists" we should be seeing attacks all throughout Minnesota soon right?
No, you should be seeing Somolians from Minneapolis going off to join the ISIS jihadists. And although you seem to be in denial, that is indeed happening. Is Minneapolis also being targeted? Well...

http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/02/22/somali-terror-group-al-shabaab-calls-attack-mall-america
 
No, you should be seeing Somolians from Minneapolis going off to join the ISIS jihadists. And although you seem to be in denial, that is indeed happening. Is Minneapolis also being targeted? Well...

http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/02/22/somali-terror-group-al-shabaab-calls-attack-mall-america

OK. so there's a massive outflow of Somolian immigrants from Minneapolis going to the middle east to join ISIS? Really? Or is it more that there have been, as your own link says, threats of attacks against popular malls throughout the West, and Mall of the Americas is an obvious target that happens to be in Minnesota?

Let's use the numbers from your CBS article. 40. Out of 25000. 0.16%. Which is a wee bit less than your couple of dozen out of 10K. Which itself is only 0.2 %. But ya know...details and whatnot.

If that's a "recruiting ground" then ISIS needs better recruiters.
 
OK. so there's a massive outflow of Somolian immigrants from Minneapolis going to the middle east to join ISIS? Really? Or is it more that there have been, as your own link says, threats of attacks against popular malls throughout the West, and Mall of the Americas is an obvious target that happens to be in Minnesota?

Let's use the numbers from your CBS article. 40. Out of 25000. 0.16%. Which is a wee bit less than your couple of dozen out of 10K. Which itself is only 0.2 %. But ya know...details and whatnot.

If that's a "recruiting ground" then ISIS needs better recruiters.
This is classic qaz, riveted upon some trivial detail while ignoring the central issue.
OK. so there's a massive outflow of Somolian immigrants from Minneapolis going to the middle east to join ISIS? Really? Or is it more that there have been, as your own link says, threats of attacks against popular malls throughout the West, and Mall of the Americas is an obvious target that happens to be in Minnesota?

Let's use the numbers from your CBS article. 40. Out of 25000. 0.16%. Which is a wee bit less than your couple of dozen out of 10K. Which itself is only 0.2 %. But ya know...details and whatnot.

If that's a "recruiting ground" then ISIS needs better recruiters.
This is classic qaz, riveted upon some trivial detail while ignoring the central issue at hand.

CBS Evening News called the Somolian community of Minneapolis a recruiting ground for Islamic extremists. Back in 2014 they had identified 40 extremists, and if you google a bit you will see at least six more have been arrested this year.

Now you can continue to work yourself into a frothing frenzy about precise numbers, or you can behave like a Big Boy and reconcile the reality. Whether we're talking Minneapolis or Montreal or Sweden or Lebanon or France: moslem immigrants do not assimilate, they repudiate democracy, they try to establish Sharia Law and they form breeding grounds for jihadists. That is a harsh assessment but that is reality.
 
This is classic qaz, riveted upon some trivial detail while ignoring the central issue.

This is classic qaz, riveted upon some trivial detail while ignoring the central issue at hand.

CBS Evening News called the Somolian community of Minneapolis a recruiting ground for Islamic extremists. Back in 2014 they had identified 40 extremists, and if you google a bit you will see at least six more have been arrested this year.

Now you can continue to work yourself into a frothing frenzy about precise numbers, or you can behave like a Big Boy and reconcile the reality. Whether we're talking Minneapolis or Montreal or Sweden or Lebanon or France: moslem immigrants do not assimilate, they repudiate democracy, they try to establish Sharia Law and they form breeding grounds for jihadists. That is a harsh assessment but that is reality.

So it's 46 now?! totally changes everything.

Yeah, moslem immigrants do not assimilate (except for the 98.4% that do) and they form breeding grounds (for 0.16% of them). You're all over it BGB.
 
Whether we're talking Minneapolis or Montreal or Sweden or Lebanon or France: moslem immigrants do not assimilate, they repudiate democracy, they try to establish Sharia Law and they form breeding grounds for jihadists. That is a harsh assessment but that is reality.

How about we talk about Lafayette/West Lafayette? Since you're so fond of "facts" (though, to quote one of my favorite movies, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."), let's use those.

Not this year, but last year, I had the opportunity to spend some time with the Islamic Society of Greater Lafayette during Ramadan, as part of a seminary project. I attended some of their prayer services, shared in several iftar meals, engaged in lengthy conversations with Muslims from a variety of nations (Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and several African nations, to name a few). I was even invited to bring my wife and kids to the celebration of Eid-al-Fitr at the end of Ramadan, which was held at West Lafayette High School. So while I cannot speak for all Muslims everywhere, I have a pretty solid base from which to comment on Muslims in the local community - and, I'd guess, a great deal more experience actually talking to and interacting with Muslims than you do.

All of them were assimilated quite well. Yes, they participate in prayers five times daily as much as possible, and yes, there are certain aspects of their religious culture that are retained (particularly when it comes to gender separation and attire). But they carry themselves like Americans, enjoy being a part of America's culture, and some of them are even fairly progressive on hot-button issues. Nowhere was there any anti-American screed or hateful dialogue - not even from the guest imam who delivered a sermon at one of the meetings and who had no idea who I was or why I was there.

So there are actual facts that demonstrate the falsehood of your assertion that "Moslem immigrants do not assimilate." That is, I suppose, unless your definition of "assimilate" means to essentially surrender every bit of their religious and cultural identity when they emigrate. In which case, you'd be right - they don't. By that definition, neither do Christians or Jews or Buddhists or anyone else.
 
How about we talk about Lafayette/West Lafayette? Since you're so fond of "facts" (though, to quote one of my favorite movies, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."), let's use those.

Not this year, but last year, I had the opportunity to spend some time with the Islamic Society of Greater Lafayette during Ramadan, as part of a seminary project. I attended some of their prayer services, shared in several iftar meals, engaged in lengthy conversations with Muslims from a variety of nations (Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and several African nations, to name a few). I was even invited to bring my wife and kids to the celebration of Eid-al-Fitr at the end of Ramadan, which was held at West Lafayette High School. So while I cannot speak for all Muslims everywhere, I have a pretty solid base from which to comment on Muslims in the local community - and, I'd guess, a great deal more experience actually talking to and interacting with Muslims than you do.

All of them were assimilated quite well. Yes, they participate in prayers five times daily as much as possible, and yes, there are certain aspects of their religious culture that are retained (particularly when it comes to gender separation and attire). But they carry themselves like Americans, enjoy being a part of America's culture, and some of them are even fairly progressive on hot-button issues. Nowhere was there any anti-American screed or hateful dialogue - not even from the guest imam who delivered a sermon at one of the meetings and who had no idea who I was or why I was there.

So there are actual facts that demonstrate the falsehood of your assertion that "Moslem immigrants do not assimilate." That is, I suppose, unless your definition of "assimilate" means to essentially surrender every bit of their religious and cultural identity when they emigrate. In which case, you'd be right - they don't. By that definition, neither do Christians or Jews or Buddhists or anyone else.
Pastor Joe, personal question: is your church in southeast Alabama? That isn't an devious question. I believe I saw a church with your name on it in that vicinity.

Back to the issue at hand. Moslems do not assimilate. Deep in your heart, you know that. Yes, some of them show up at the pot luck community luncheons and most are not committed to the mindless slaughter of infidels. But a few do,and that's too many. A few pedophile priests is too many.
 
Pastor Joe, personal question: is your church in southeast Alabama? That isn't an devious question. I believe I saw a church with your name on it in that vicinity.

Back to the issue at hand. Moslems do not assimilate. Deep in your heart, you know that. Yes, some of them show up at the pot luck community luncheons and most are not committed to the mindless slaughter of infidels. But a few do,and that's too many. A few pedophile priests is too many.

Unless by "assimilate" you mean "become Christians" then yes the vast majority of them assimilate just fine. A few of them are even republicans.
 
I'm late to the conversation, but since the request is for a "here and now" answer, here's some thoughts.

1. Provide humane aid to the refugees - food, shelter, etc., and do so in a way that does not dehumanize them.

2. Actually address the root cause of the situations that cause them to become refugees in the first place. Yes, this is expensive and yes, it is likely impossible to end all of the causes. However, it is possible to reduce a great deal of refugee-ism by improving conditions in the places they leave.

3. For refugees whose situation can't be improved in the places they left, there must be a way to incorporate them fully into life in a new location. This means that countries beyond Europe will have to step up, too.

While this sounds great and in many ways I would agree, I would also say it sounds a lot like nation building and western government interference in the places these refugees are leaving.

As for No. 1 I agree with that. What do you mean by dehumanize though? SA supposedly has a tent city that can hold and take care of people in a number that is in 7 figures, but not one person has gone there. Why? Is that because it is unacceptable and demeaning to be in a tent city? Would seem to be a great area to send refugees to as they get vetted and the west figures out how to support and put up thousands of refugees. On the flip side, it just seems like people expect western countries to take on thousands of refugees immediately with really no system, vetting, or process in place to do it this fast.

2. Well, we all saw how effective nation building is-in short it is not. It was also terribly expensive. And at some point in the future, this nation building(which is really what is meant by "addressing root cause of the situations that cause them to be refugees in first place"), will again be used in the future as the west getting involved in others affairs when they should not have. A lot of the reasons there are refugees revolve around religous wars-can we win the battle, sure not even hard to do if politics stays out of it. Win that idealogy? No-not even close.

3. Agree to a point. That said, can these people support themselves in some way? Not sure if you noticed, but the USA and some of these other western powers are not exactly beacons of financial health. Estimates have half the USA on some sort of public aid. Reality is that needs to shrink, not expand.
 
The mass exodus of displaced people is not that easy because you don't know who precisely you are taking it. Remember when Fidel allowed the flotilla of people from Cuba to come to America. It turned out a lot of them were the dregs of Cuban society; he cleaned out his jails, etc. I'm not saying this is exactly on parallel but you have to wonder who you are letting in to your country. Are they Isis members who are trying to hid in the crowd of refugees? It is not that easy to have no organized entrance, which is why we have an immigration department which has a lot of criteria for you acceptance as a citizen. Europe has a lot to answer for when they would not allow jews who were being persecuted by Germany to enter their countries but still are you left with taking in everybody that shows up at your door despite how bad their background might be?
 
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The mass exodus of displaced people is not that easy because you don't know who precisely you are taking it. Remember when Fidel allowed the flotilla of people from Cuba to come to America. It turned out a lot of them were the dregs of Cuban society; he cleaned out his jails, etc. I'm not saying this is exactly on parallel but you have to wonder who you are letting in to your country. Are they Isis members who are trying to hid in the crowd of refugees? It is not that easy to have no organized entrance, which is why we have an immigration department which has a lot of criteria for you acceptance as a citizen. Europe has a lot to answer for when they would not allow jews who were being persecuted by Germany to enter their countries but still are you left with taking in everybody that shows up at your door despite how bad their background might be?

How much is Europe responsible for the messes in Africa and the Middle East? How much is directly tied to their meddling, carving out countries that don't make any sense, stealing natural resources, and otherwise preventing those areas from self-development for decades?

Certainly, they are not wholly responsible, but they hold a great deal of responsibility. So, the least they can do is what they are doing now.
 
How much is Europe responsible for the messes in Africa and the Middle East? How much is directly tied to their meddling, carving out countries that don't make any sense, stealing natural resources, and otherwise preventing those areas from self-development for decades?

Certainly, they are not wholly responsible, but they hold a great deal of responsibility. So, the least they can do is what they are doing now.
There has to be some cohesive strategy as to how to handle this instead of an ad hoc run to the border of your favorite new place to live. I don't see to many of them heading to Belarus or the Ukraine.
 
How much is Europe responsible for the messes in Africa and the Middle East? How much is directly tied to their meddling, carving out countries that don't make any sense, stealing natural resources, and otherwise preventing those areas from self-development for decades?

Certainly, they are not wholly responsible, but they hold a great deal of responsibility. So, the least they can do is what they are doing now.
How much of this goes back, exactly, 100 years ago? We are still paying for the collapse eroupian empire after WWI. We in this country held it up by giving Britton and France some hope they could maintain theirs after WWI but have sold our souls trying to maintain it for them post WWII.
 
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