You mean Mathias is better when it counts?
Here's his point totals from some games that 'counted'
Nova 3
L'ville 5
ND 5
Mich 4
Mich 3
Kansas 3
So, I'm not sure if you believe Mathias really ups his game against the best competition or not.
Love for Carsen
- Thread starter punaj
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You mean Mathias is better when it counts?
Here's his point totals from some games that 'counted'
Nova 3
L'ville 5
ND 5
Mich 4
Mich 3
Kansas 3
So, I'm not sure if you believe Mathias really ups his game against the best competition or not.
They're different types of players. CE is the more explosive scorer & has the ability to get his own shot. Mathias is better defensively and usually makes great decisions.
Both will be difficult to take off the floor from Painter's perspective.
Carsen was a combined 6-33 from the field against Purdue’s 3 most highly ranked opponents: Nova, Louisville, and Kansas. Both players need to get better against top competition.
But, if you had to have one, you'd take CE 10 out of 10 times. Like I said, DM is a nice player, does some things well, it deadly from 3 and plays solid D, but he's at his ceiling and won't be playing after college. He's a really good complimentary player, but I'm not sure he's a starter on a Final Four team.
CE is one of the few guards with NBA potential that Purdue has had, so Painter not only has to use that talent on the floor, but also in recruiting.
My point wasn't that CE played any better in those games, but that DM disappeared against the best competition.
Well, it's a good thing we don't have to pick one! I love CE (hell, I compared him stylistically to Russell Westbrook in another thread) but you don't have to disparage one player to talk about what another might bring.
I disagree about DM playing after college; he's good enough to play overseas if that's what he chooses to do. If not, he'll make one hell of a coach.
Not totally. Against Kansas, Dakota only attempted 4 shots, all three pointers, and made one, but he was feeding the post. He ended with 7 assists vs. 1 turnover to go with 5 rebounds. He forced Kansas to commit a man to guarding him closely and he really didn’t do anything to hurt the offense, even if he was not capable of taking the game over like Carsen might be able to do one day.
Carsen, on the other hand, was 1-10 from the field with 2 turnovers and no assists, to go with 3 rebounds and 4 made free throws. Carsen tried to take the game over, but was unsuccessful and didn’t do much to get his teammates involved, either. So while I like the confidence and the potential, Carsen still has a lot to prove. I think that he’ll get there, but he wasn’t there last season and I can back that statement up with a lot of stats.
There’s a reason why Ryan Cline replaced Carsen in the starting line-up for the last 8 games last season. That said, I think that Carsen will start all season this year and will have a much better season.
Mathias will be invited to an NBA camp and probably play overseas and make millions doing so. I’d put him as a fringe 8-10 man on an NBA roster. He is like Kyle Korver but plays defense. He is athletic and tough enough to play in the NBA as a 2 and matchup against perimeter players in situations. Also, the NBA has a need to players who can shoot at his clip and range from 3 to come off the bench.
I’m not saying it’ll happen but the tools are there if a team wants to take a flyer...if not, he’ll make a ton of money in Turkey, Russia, Spain, or Italy before coming back to coach somewhere.
You gotta stop with this Mathias to the NBA and Korver comparisons. He may play overseas but he won't be making millions. Korver is bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic than Dakota and barely sees time outside of being a 3 point specialist . I'm not sure there is anybody in the NBA Dakota could guard in a 1 on 1 iso situation. He's been a great player for Purdue, but this NBA talk is insane and makes Purdue fans in general look extremely foolish.
Oh and I forgot most importantly Korver is a far better shooter.
Ya the mathias = korver with better defense is the exact definition of delusional homerism. He's actually getting laughed at on the national board by both Purdue and opposing fans that visit here. Mathias is a solid role player who occasionally has the ability to go off and score a bunch of points. Good college player with zero shot at the NBA.
I was never a fan of Willie Deane. I think whenever a player forces shots, it hurts team chemistry. Basketball played at its highest level is a team sport.
Dakota is a very good ball player. Carsen is a scorer and "streaky shooter" that has improved his on ball defense and in the intrasquad game showed off ball improvement in D. Dakota is just soooooo sound in soooooo many phases of the game. So what does the team need...Dakota is there to help with whatever is needed.
realizing the difference between the NBA and college is missed by many. Purdue is playing a college game and ...Dakota is playing a college game
Since we have Kyle Korver with lockdown defense and a Westbrook/Iverson clone, surely we are the favorite to win the national title.
Pretty shallow pool that you're fishin' in with that kind of comment...
Off the top of my head...Keith Edmonson, Jerry Sichting, Dave Schellhase, Cuonzo Martin, Herm Gilliam, Billy Keller and that other guy, what's his name??? Oh yeah, Rick Mount.
C'mon now...
As I recall, he was listed as a Forward but essentially played as a guard and would shoot from about anywhere on the court.
My freshman year, the year after his graduation, people would laughingly suggest putting a statue of him in the stands with hands waving and a plaque saying "Get me the ball now, I'm open"
The biggest difference between Mathias and Korver is about 4 inches of height and probably at least that in wingspan. Korver may be a better shooter as well, but his college stats with a shorter line and a weaker conference don’t prove that. Korver’s standing vertical in the combine was about as low as it gets for a legitimate NBA wing prospect.
If Dakota was 4 inches taller, I think that he would have a legitimate shot at getting drafted in the second round, like Korver, but unfortunately for Dakota, he’s not.
I have said that Mathias is similar to Korver but he can play defense. I never said he was a lockdown defender and simply stated I thought Mathias had a chance to make an NBA camp and get a sniff as an 8-10 guy on an NBA roster. How is that woefully inaccurate? I’ve seen some pretty horrific players in them NBA be that 8-10th man on the bench who sees little time outside of blowouts.
I do believe I then alluded to Mathias probably more likely making a living for himself overseas.
I’m not here making claims that Mathias would get drafted, because he won’t be. The NBA likes guys who are more unfinished and that’s not Mathias. But I’ll almost guarantee he gets in to an NBA camp based solely on his ability to hit the three, being tabbed a high level wing defender for two seasons, and his court vision.
I’m really going to have to get much more detailed with my posts as people clearly can’t infer much...or I’m just taking for granted the reading level of some people here.
So Mathias = sure fire first round and maybe lottery pick? Running to national board to make fun of you.
If he was 4 inches taller, MAYBE he would get like a late 2nd round look. Though I don't get how that's relevant to anything considering every player in the world would benefit from that amount of added height. People are comparing a guy who hasn't even made 3rd team all big to an nba contributor. As I said I think he's a good college player, not nba material though.
The 8-10th guy on a NBA roster is the equivalent of a college super star. I'm guessing you watch very little or none at all of the NBA. Some of these pros may have only played a year or two of college but had they stayed for the full 4 they would have been putting up stats that absolutely put anything DM has done to shame. This is not a knock on DM either but just the reality of just how good professional basketball players are in the NBA. A lot truly great college bball players never even get a sniff from the NBA.
You've made posts saying Luce would actually play meaningful minutes this year then tried to spin it and compare him to Bobby Buckets. This team vs the team Bobby made(when he first came to Purdue) are in no way similar in regards to overall talent level and depth. Weren't we begging football players like Dustin Keller and Charles Davis to play for the team also? They may have been a couple years before Bobby. I have extremely high hopes for this season and a number of the players but throwing out statements like you have been is just inviting criticism. Some of your thoughts about the scrimmage were perfectly fine even if they were overly optimistic but at least 2 or 3 of them were so far out there that you reduced your credibility.
Can you point out where I said Luce would play meaningful minutes this season?
Thanks for the heads up so I couldn’t clarify my comments. Good to see so many IU guys lurking in the background just waiting to take something out of context.
Went and got it for you:
...Tommy Luce will be a contributor his senior year when needed. He may end up having guys in front of him but if foul trouble stacks up at some point, Luce could be called on in a similar role to Bobby Riddell a few years ago.
So from this direct quote from my post, please show me where I stated Luce would play meaningful minutes this season? Please do. What I see is someone pointing out he will have guys ahead of him BUT IF FOUL TROUBLE STACKS UP HE MIGHT BE CALLED ON SIMILAR TO RIDDELL.
Would you like me to make it more clear for you....I DIDNT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THIS SEASON AND I SAID AS MUCH WHEN I MADE MENTION OF LUCE WHEN HE IS A SENIOR IN TWO GOD DAMN YEARS IF THE GUYS AHEAD OF HIM GET IN SERIOUS FOUL TROUBLE AS CAN HAPPEN SOME TIMES WHEN THE REFS FROM THE B1G INEVITABLY SUCK.
And I forgot how amazing players like TJ Leaf and Edmond Summer were superstars in college...you know with Sumners amazing average of 14.5 and 4 his senior year. Yup, those 8-10 players are really superstars in college right?
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It’s relevant because Mathias and Korver are being discussed in this thread and height describes the largest difference between Mathias and a young Korver.
I agree that every player would benefit from an extra four inches of height. It’s a very significant difference. I can’t quite figure out what you are arguing against.
I think superstar is a little over the top. Go down the lineups of most NBA teams and what you don't find are a bunch of superstars from college. Several you'd be hard pressed to even know where they played college ball. Was Paul George a college superstar? Vic Oladipo? Etwaunn Moore?
I don't think DM has the quicks for the NBA. I think he struggles to get open sometimes and in the NBA, he would face elite defense. I agree that he could probably play in Europe and have a nice career there.
I love him at Purdue and he's made huge improvements in his 4 years.
Willie Deane was the best scoring and most athletic guard since Moore or Carsen.
Really good players (scorers) sometimes have to force or hunt shots, especially when you teams best option. Did you ever watch the Big Dog? Now granted, he was extra special, but he hunted shots.
You're probably so used to watching Purdue guards not having a 'score first' mentality that when we do get someone like Deane or Carsen, you think they're a ball hog.
Sorry, I was only trying to reference players from the last 50 years (other than Zo, who arguably, was a 6'6 small forward, not G).
Often times, Oladipo and Moore were clearly the best players on the floor and you could see their game translate to the NBA.
The fact is, that on most NBA rosters, there's not room for a 'specialist' that does one thing really well (Mathias would be considered only a 3 pt spot up shooter). Teams need guys who do several things well, from running the break to creating looks for the stars.
I'm not supporting an opinion that Mathias ends up on an NBA roster- just disputing that the rosters are full of college superstars - they are not.
Didn't Oladipo finish second in player of the year voting? Wasn't he a consensus 1st team All-American? I would definitely say that qualifies as a college superstar. The same way Biggie was a college superstar last season.
Exactly. One thing that has been very effective for Purdue is that we've spread the ball around and been to tough to defend. Obviously if Carsen cannot be stopped, then by all means go for it. But it concerns me on high volume when it's not terribly efficient. To be fair, I had some complaints with regards to Swanigan on the same thing - he had some very inefficient games in terms of number of shots and points scored. However, one small saving grace was our rebounding was often good which helped make up for it - that may not this year.
We were the best offensive team in the Big Ten last year. A lot of that had to do with finding good shots - and being patient at times in doing so. Our assist numbers showed this last year. We need Carsen to maximize his potential, but we won't be able to afford 6-16 games from him. That will get us in trouble against good teams, and quite frankly against some not great teams too if we aren't a strong rebounding team.
I'll tone it down from superstars to just the equivalent of stars. Also a good portion of NBA players spent limited time in college or came from overseas and that had they spent 4 years in college vs 1 or 2 they would have been at a level far above anything DM has played at for his 4 years . The NBA is loaded with talented and skilled players whether people like the style or not. I would be very happy for DM if he took his game to the next level and was able to somehow make a NBA team but right now that isn't happening and comparing him to a NBA veteran who during stretches of his career was considered the best shooter in the league just isn't fair to him and why JDB is getting ridiculed for the comparison.
If we call every player who makes the All American team a superstar then it makes the term meaningless. Superstar should be reserved for superstars. Frank Mason was POY last year - I don't consider him a college superstar. I don't consider Biggie a college superstar.
we good
You don't consider Biggie a college superstar?
Man....what's your criteria?
Did you consider Glenn Robinson a college superstar?
Yes...singular college talent. Biggie was not at that level in college. Glenn would dominate games offensively.
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