League of Denial

[Beeazlebub]

Last night, Frontline replayed an episode from last year about the long-term impacts of head injuries in the NFL. It is difficult to watch this and not have questions about the safety of the game. If you're looking for some background on why the Shane Morris incident with UM is stirring up controversy, this show will provide it.

This is an issue that reaches far beyond the NFL to the very roots of the most popular sport in the US.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/league-of-denial/

 

[Boiler20]

The game we know from today, let alone the 70s/80s, will cease to exist....

...sooner rather than later, in my opinion.

Hello, soccer.

(Ughhh....).

 

[kescwi]

Re: The game we know from today, let alone the 70s/80s, will cease to exist....

Yep, said a similar thing to my wife and the boy at the start of this season, enjoy it because we are near the the end and it is going to change in a hurry. It has to though, the the athletes today are bigger, faster... than the 70s/80s and it has become a very dangerous game, always has been in the moment but now it appears it's dangerous later in life.

 

[indyogb]

They're modern day gladiators. They know (now) the risks, yet still choose to play. I have very little sympathy for the NFL players - they're paid millions (even I'd brave the risks for that kind of money). I'm not sure what you do at the college level (still money involved... tuition + kick backs), or, especially, the high school level.

If you really wanted to reduce the head injuries, the helmets either need to be changed dramatically (to reduce the shock from hits), or need to go away altogether (so players won't lead with their head - would certainly lead to more "less severe" head/face injuries though).

Does rugby have similar problems? Why or why not (as the case may be)?

 

[Noodle]

There are concussion problems in rugby as well, although not...


yet as big of an issue as it is in the NFL. At the youth sport level, I have seen significant changes just within the past couple of years. There is now strict, mandatory concussion training for all coaches in youth baseball and soccer. In fact, it is now required by law in Ohio.

A couple of weeks ago at my son's soccer game (U14) a linesman waved over the referee to stop the game and have a kid pulled from the game to be checked out because he took a hard shot from a ball to the side of his face. It was a really hard shot, but the kid did not go down. Still, the linesman said that he ought to come out as a precaution. The kid was fine and came back in a little later, but I was really impressed that the linesman did that.


recent story on rugby and concussions:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/27655550

 

[Stairwayto7]

Originally posted by indyogb:
They're modern day gladiators. They know (now) the risks, yet still choose to play. I have very little sympathy for the NFL players - they're paid millions (even I'd brave the risks for that kind of money). I'm not sure what you do at the college level (still money involved... tuition + kick backs), or, especially, the high school level.

If you really wanted to reduce the head injuries, the helmets either need to be changed dramatically (to reduce the shock from hits), or need to go away altogether (so players won't lead with their head - would certainly lead to more "less severe" head/face injuries though).

Does rugby have similar problems? Why or why not (as the case may be)?

I had a professor at Purdue who played in the NFL in the 70s, he made the same claim in class. If the NFL wanted to reduce TBI then they should get rid of helmets all together. Helmets and pads give players a fall sense of security. The amount of protection is proportionate to the measured energy at impact. The more protection the more energy delivered. People who say rugby players are tougher because they don't wear as much padding are only kidding themselves because independent studies that measure the energy of impacts has found that NFL players hit much much harder than professional rugby players.

Body armor has caused a similar response in the military, because we wear more armor we have actually changed the way we shoot and they way we move. Now instead of a nearly sideways stance to minimize our profile we actually present a straight forward stance because our plate armor is most effective head on. Also the more armor we add the more injuries we have because of the weight our body is carrying. Spinal issues have been known to be a common side effect from prolonged armor wear. Today we actually wear less armor than we did 5-10 years ago because common sense prevailed and the protection that massive armor provided was offset by the reality that it made soldiers slower and caused exhaustion very early.

In the NFL's pursuit of the biggest and the baddest humans on earth, TBI will continue to plague the league unless it undergoes a radical change. It is almost as if the NFL has crossed a point of no return. Bernard Pollard stated in an interview that even though the NFL has provided way more than he could ever need, he will never allow his children to play the sport because of the damage he has witnessed first hand.

 

[qazplm]

couple of possibilities

make leaving your feet to make a tackle illegal. Yes, I know, it's not football. But I think if you require at least one foot on the ground at all times you remove a lot of hits that could lead to concussions. Of course, that won't stop all of them. You might also have to disallow an offensive or defensive player from lowering their head to make a hit.

Point is, you can probably change the game enough to significantly reduce concussions without making it flag football.

 

[Btown Boiler]

I attached a link to a short book about my cousin. He had a traumatic brain injury a few years ago in a high school game and he and his immediate family (as well as extended as we pretty much all grew up within a few miles and our fathers farm together), will have to deal with for the rest of his life.

The book is written by one of his therapists and they are trying to distribute the book to many of the high schools around the Lafayette area in general to help spread the message to other high school kids.

The Impact of Cody Lehe

 

[Noodle]

I would guess that at least 1/3 of the tackles in any NFL game would be illegal in rugby. And I'm not just talking about tackles where the tackler leads with their head. It's just a fundamentally different game.

Nevertheless, concussions and CTE are a significant problem in rugby as well.

I don't think the answer is going sans helmets, In fact, that would lead to more concussions from the head violently hitting the ground (a big issue in rugby). Now, I'm not suggesting that there would be more concussions without helmets. Rather, I don't think going helmetless would eliminate concussions.

I think a better route would be to develop better technology to monitor head impacts, and to use things like helmet sensors to determine when a player should be pulled from a game and/or sat for the rest of the season. In many instances doctors suspect that it is the repeated small blows to the head, none of which are individually severe enough to concuss, that has led to long-term brain injuries for football players. If we had a reliable way to monitor cumulative impact it would be a potentially life-saving measure--or life-prolonging, I suppose. It would also lead to players being more cautious in how they use their heads, knowing that if they repeatedly put their heads in danger their season (if not career) might end early.

You could even use the same system to penalize players who illegally cause head impacts above a certain threshold. Instead of a $50,000 fine for that helmet-to-helmet hit on the quarterback, a player is out for X weeks, without pay, with the number of games dependent on the measured severity of the hit.

Helmetless football, in my opinion, would not be football--especially at the collegiate and NFL levels. On the other hand, I think it should be done in youth football.

 

[Noodle]

Originally posted by Btown Boiler:
I attached a link to a short book about my cousin. He had a traumatic brain injury a few years ago in a high school game and he and his immediate family (as well as extended as we pretty much all grew up within a few miles and our fathers farm together), will have to deal with for the rest of his life.

The book is written by one of his therapists and they are trying to distribute the book to many of the high schools around the Lafayette area in general to help spread the message to other high school kids.

That is wonderful that your family (extended or otherwise) is doing that. It's hard enough, I'm sure, to deal with taking care of your cousin, let alone share the experience with the world in order to try to prevent others from going through that.

My kids do not play football--they've never had any interest in it. Our oldest (13) plays soccer, and this is his first year on a "select" team. I don't think his head has contacted a ball the entire season (at least in a game), and I am just fine with that. I cringe every time one of the kids does so, as I know it can cause problems. While the concussion risk in soccer is certainly not as great as in football, it is definitely an issue that needs to be better addressed.

According to a recent lawsuit seeking to change some of the rules, "nearly 50,000 high school soccer players sustained concussions in 2010 - more players than in baseball, basketball, softball and wrestling combined." In watching my son's games this season, I don't think there has been a single header for a goal, or even a decent header shot on goal. Instead, the headers have, for the most part, been players trying to redirect the ball. Some are quite good at passing with their head. Still, I don't think the character of the game would be affected at all if they simply banned headers at their age.

As for the concussion lawsuit: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/sports/soccer/concussion-lawsuit-bids-to-force-rules-changes-in-soccer.html?_r=0

 

[Stairwayto7]

Originally posted by Noodle:

I would guess that at least 1/3 of the tackles in any NFL game would be illegal in rugby. And I'm not just talking about tackles where the tackler leads with their head. It's just a fundamentally different game.

Nevertheless, concussions and CTE are a significant problem in rugby as well.

I don't think the answer is going sans helmets, In fact, that would lead to more concussions from the head violently hitting the ground (a big issue in rugby). Now, I'm not suggesting that there would be more concussions without helmets. Rather, I don't think going helmetless would eliminate concussions.

I think a better route would be to develop better technology to monitor head impacts, and to use things like helmet sensors to determine when a player should be pulled from a game and/or sat for the rest of the season. In many instances doctors suspect that it is the repeated small blows to the head, none of which are individually severe enough to concuss, that has led to long-term brain injuries for football players. If we had a reliable way to monitor cumulative impact it would be a potentially life-saving measure--or life-prolonging, I suppose. It would also lead to players being more cautious in how they use their heads, knowing that if they repeatedly put their heads in danger their season (if not career) might end early.

You could even use the same system to penalize players who illegally cause head impacts above a certain threshold. Instead of a $50,000 fine for that helmet-to-helmet hit on the quarterback, a player is out for X weeks, without pay, with the number of games dependent on the measured severity of the hit.

Helmetless football, in my opinion, would not be football--especially at the collegiate and NFL levels. On the other hand, I think it should be done in youth football.

We had to wear new combat helmets in Afghanistan that monitored shock waves and energy applied to the helmet. Needless to say the helmets were heavier and more uncomfortable than our normal helmets. Outside of completely redesigning helmets, I am not sure what a viable solution would be.