For those who haven't seen what changed during the time of Harris as AG....
Kamela and Prop 47
- Thread starter TwinDegrees2
- Start date
Just keep your thievery under $950.
One of the most devastating policies businesses and insurance companies have ever had to endure.
All these cost filter down to all consumers eventually.
reformcalifornia.org
One of the most devastating policies businesses and insurance companies have ever had to endure.
All these cost filter down to all consumers eventually.
How Kamala Harris Helped Create a Crime Wave in CA
Kamala Harris is trying to run for President right now as “California’s Prosecutor” — but she’s actually one of the biggest reasons why California is experiencing a dangerous crime wave.
reformcalifornia.org
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Why would anyone start a small business in California?Just keep your thievery under $950.
One of the most devastating policies businesses and insurance companies have ever had to endure.
All these cost filter down to all consumers eventually.
How Kamala Harris Helped Create a Crime Wave in CA
Kamala Harris is trying to run for President right now as “California’s Prosecutor” — but she’s actually one of the biggest reasons why California is experiencing a dangerous crime wave.
Two questions:
1. Are you suggesting that having a particular threshold for misdemeanor vs. felony shoplifting leads to more shoplifting?
2. Are you suggesting that California is an outlier in having such a threshold?
When the consequences for an action are minimalized, then that action will increase.
Why do you think shoplifting is at the point in places like San Francisco that stores are literally closing because it's no longer profitable due to the levels of theft?
Were you aware that every state has a similar felony threshold and only 11 states have one lower than California's? Texas' is $2,500. So, wouldn't we expect far more shoplifting there than in California?
Are the penalties different in TX or do misdemeanor crimes get treated exactly the same? I suspect they're much different in TX.
Does TX have a castle doctrine law that allows a home or business owner to shoot an intruder?
That is the felony threshold, but not the arrest threshold. Otherwise, there would be more shoplifting in Texas.
I don't know, but I'm glad that you do at least seem aware that it's a more complex issue than is presented by, say Donald Trump and everyone else that keeps saying that CA just allows people take up to $950 worth of stuff. That was really my only point, because there seems to be a lot of "CA is inviting shoplifting" sentiment out there based on the $950 thing, when, in actuality, that number is tougher than most of the country. If the issue is really something else, then maybe that's the thing to talk about? Like, I don't hear Republican politicians saying that CA needs to allow business owners to shoot shoplifters, I hear them saying that CA decided that stealing less than $950 just isn't a crime, which, of course, isn't actually true.
I presume you were also aware that shoplifting in CA (at least as of 2022) was lower than it was in 2019 and significantly lower than it was when Prop 47 was passed?
Shoplifting in California Is Below Pre-Pandemic Levels
Is California's shoplifting rate high? Despite recent increases, shoplifting remains below pre-pandemic levels in the state.
calbudgetcenter.org
So is crime generally, as it is nationwide, despite the "record crime wave" that some fear-monger about:
Crime in California Remains Well Below Historical Peaks
Contrary to national trends, crime rates in California remain well below the peaks of the past five decades.
calbudgetcenter.org
(Note: only using this source for the data, not their policy recommdations)
SF shoplifting analysis: Prop 47 binds police, shifts burden of arrest to citizens — OPPORTUNITY NOW
GrowSF analyzes the Golden City's elevated property crimes post-Prop 47 , and explains that reclassifying felonies as misdemeanors has put the onus on eyewitnesses to pursue laborious “citizen's arrests,” since police now can't directly arrest folks who steal under $950. As SJ's mayor Mahan rema
www.opportunitynowsv.org
I don't think saying "shoot shoplifters" would be popular policy on either side. But, do you think a shop owner who shoots a robber in CA would get treated differently than a shop owner in TX who shots a robber, assuming the circumstances are identical?I don't know, but I'm glad that you do at least seem aware that it's a more complex issue than is presented by, say Donald Trump and everyone else that keeps saying that CA just allows people take up to $950 worth of stuff. That was really my only point, because there seems to be a lot of "CA is inviting shoplifting" sentiment out there based on the $950 thing, when, in actuality, that number is tougher than most of the country. If the issue is really something else, then maybe that's the thing to talk about? Like, I don't hear Republican politicians saying that CA needs to allow business owners to shoot shoplifters, I hear them saying that CA decided that stealing less than $950 just isn't a crime, which, of course, isn't actually true.
I presume you were also aware that shoplifting in CA (at least as of 2022) was lower than it was in 2019 and significantly lower than it was when Prop 47 was passed?
Shoplifting in California Is Below Pre-Pandemic Levels
Is California's shoplifting rate high? Despite recent increases, shoplifting remains below pre-pandemic levels in the state.
So is crime generally, as it is nationwide, despite the "record crime wave" that some fear-monger about:
Crime in California Remains Well Below Historical Peaks
Contrary to national trends, crime rates in California remain well below the peaks of the past five decades.
(Note: only using this source for the data, not their policy recommdations)
I don't know, I'd need to research the relevant laws in both states, as what I "think" doesn't really matter. But, like you often do, you're fixated now on something that is not relevant to the original point I was trying to make, that being the effect of the felony threshold, specifically. So, thanks anyway.
Nobody is arguing with you on this point, so your day on the forum hasn't been a total defeat.
You're fixated on anything other than the data. So whatever point you're inferring doesn't exist. It's just feelings. Laws don't really exist without enforcement. And data doesn't exist without reporting. Did people stop dying of Covid or did we just stop reporting it? Don't answer, it's rhetorical.
SF shoplifting analysis: Prop 47 binds police, shifts burden of arrest to citizens — OPPORTUNITY NOW
GrowSF analyzes the Golden City's elevated property crimes post-Prop 47 , and explains that reclassifying felonies as misdemeanors has put the onus on eyewitnesses to pursue laborious “citizen's arrests,” since police now can't directly arrest folks who steal under $950. As SJ's mayor Mahan rema
Prop 47 is a glaring example of Dem policy, and also points out the importance & dead on accuracy of one of Reagan's famous quotes....
"Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem."
From your post…So is crime generally, as it is nationwide, despite the "record crime wave" that some fear-monger about:I don't know, but I'm glad that you do at least seem aware that it's a more complex issue than is presented by, say Donald Trump and everyone else that keeps saying that CA just allows people take up to $950 worth of stuff. That was really my only point, because there seems to be a lot of "CA is inviting shoplifting" sentiment out there based on the $950 thing, when, in actuality, that number is tougher than most of the country. If the issue is really something else, then maybe that's the thing to talk about? Like, I don't hear Republican politicians saying that CA needs to allow business owners to shoot shoplifters, I hear them saying that CA decided that stealing less than $950 just isn't a crime, which, of course, isn't actually true.
I presume you were also aware that shoplifting in CA (at least as of 2022) was lower than it was in 2019 and significantly lower than it was when Prop 47 was passed?
Shoplifting in California Is Below Pre-Pandemic Levels
Is California's shoplifting rate high? Despite recent increases, shoplifting remains below pre-pandemic levels in the state.
So is crime generally, as it is nationwide, despite the "record crime wave" that some fear-monger about:
Crime in California Remains Well Below Historical Peaks
Contrary to national trends, crime rates in California remain well below the peaks of the past five decades.
(Note: only using this source for the data, not their policy recommdations)
You should try to sell that data to retail stores. Sure, crime is down because no one is making any arrests or calling in the theft. But that doesn’t mean theft is down.
Quite the contrary.
- In 2022, shoplifting losses grew 19.4%year-over-year; as a share of retail sales dollars, losses to theft increased 10.5%.
Shoplifting Statistics (2024): Retail Theft Data by State
Latest available statistics on how common shoplifting is in America, how often shoplifters get caught and all other aspects of retail theft.
Large-scale thefts, in which groups of people brazenly rush into stores and take goods in plain sight, have reached a crisis level in the state, though the California Retailers Association said it’s challenging to quantify the issue because many stores don’t share their data.
California advances legislation cracking down on stolen goods resellers and auto theft
California lawmakers have advanced more than a dozen bills aiming to address the retail theft crisis.
apnews.com
San Francisco
At the mall, many large retailers, such as Nordstrom and Cinemark left last year. In the last few months, Hollister, Addidas, and The Lego Store have also left.
Meanwhile in Union Square, companies have also been fleeing in the wake of the 2021 and 2022 smash and grab robberies that plagued the area.
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It's an opportunity economy that is based on taking from those who work and giving to those who don't. It's called socialistic opportunism and buying votes.
I got a kick out of “Step 6 - Access to New Opportunities” after declassifing the felonies.
And there will be an “Opportunity Economy” under Kamala….for the illegal immigrants.
And as you point out an “opportunity” for the rich to give more to the less fortunate thru Kamala’s tax increases
