Just further proof that guns aren't the solution, they are the problem. From both sides.

[TheCainer]

This is a truly sad story about a father who stood up to authority in the delivering of an eviction notice and sadly his daughter paid the ultimate price. How does this story relate to the current standoff in Oregon? Why does a 12 year old girl die in one case and a cast of malcontents live on in a developing national story?

What is wrong here? Isn't there a peaceful solution that can be found where such tragic losses can be avoided? Is compassion a forgotten human trait?

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/12-...ring-familys-eviction-from-pennsylvania-home/

 

[IlluminatiEXPOSETHEMNOW1]

This is a truly sad story about a father who stood up to authority in the delivering of an eviction notice and sadly his daughter paid the ultimate price. How does this story relate to the current standoff in Oregon? Why does a 12 year old girl die in one case and a cast of malcontents live on in a developing national story?

What is wrong here? Isn't there a peaceful solution that can be found where such tragic losses can be avoided? Is compassion a forgotten human trait?

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/12-...ring-familys-eviction-from-pennsylvania-home/

Propaganda alert. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. You gotta love how guns are like 40th on the list for cause of death in America, but anytime someone dies by gun the news magically acts like somehow it's the guns fault. Guns aren't alive no matter how much the left wants people to think they are. We've seen this propaganda before to disarm the population so that it can be enslaved and exterminated. Guns in the governments hands kill tens of millions no matter what government. The US government even has killed over 2 million Iraqi's who had nothing to do with 911. These leftist phonies didn't say anything about that or punish anyone responsible for it. Hillary voted for the war. Gun control govt worship heads act as though those people's lives didn't matter that somehow foreign lives don't count. It would take 1000 years of natural gun deaths in America to reach one year with government slaughtering in a war. Your little tricks of oh look at that kid die lets all simper and shame our rights and submit. Time to take the guns so Obama's foreign banker rulers can kill 5 billion. Hand them over. Don't worry about the uncontrollable government filled with Satan worshipers with brainwashed fools having guns, just you hand yours in and surrender your rights to foreign rulership. That isn't flying anymore pal. Got some news for you, when the Illuminati strike via Obama or whoever the next/future puppet they put in power they will be met with an armed public.

The funny thing about Obama is that he is guarded by people with guns. How is it good for Obama to have 1000 secret service and snipers armed wherever he goes, but then bad for an American citizen to have one when it is a guaranteed in stone right not just by the constitution, but by God himself as is so eloquently written in the Constitution as well. Pointing out every little shooting that the government stages has failed or some little tragedy. Everyone saw Sandyhook in the Batman movie to gimmick laugh at the public. As the serial killer global government put their serial killer clue in the movie to taunt America. Everyone saw the father fake cry and smile before the CNN CIA staged psychological warfare interview.

IT IS CALLED EAR TO EAR PAL...EAR TO EAR LAUGHED AT...

It is called somebody got faked out and that somebody is you

 

[ecouch]

This is a truly sad story about a father who stood up to authority in the delivering of an eviction notice and sadly his daughter paid the ultimate price. How does this story relate to the current standoff in Oregon? Why does a 12 year old girl die in one case and a cast of malcontents live on in a developing national story?

What is wrong here? Isn't there a peaceful solution that can be found where such tragic losses can be avoided? Is compassion a forgotten human trait?

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/12-...ring-familys-eviction-from-pennsylvania-home/

He didn't "stand up to authority" He put the muzzle of a rifle into the chest of a deputy delivering an eviction notice.

Guess what happens when you point guns at law enforcement? He got his daughter killed and is lucky he survived.

 

[qazplm]

He didn't "stand up to authority" He put the muzzle of a rifle into the chest of a deputy delivering an eviction notice.

Guess what happens when you point guns at law enforcement? He got his daughter killed and is lucky he survived.

I don't blame the officer, and I don't think he is either. The point he is trying to make is this is, yet again, a situation where guns did not make the situation better, guns made them worse.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

This is a truly sad story about a father who stood up to authority in the delivering of an eviction notice and sadly his daughter paid the ultimate price. How does this story relate to the current standoff in Oregon? Why does a 12 year old girl die in one case and a cast of malcontents live on in a developing national story?

What is wrong here? Isn't there a peaceful solution that can be found where such tragic losses can be avoided? Is compassion a forgotten human trait?

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/12-...ring-familys-eviction-from-pennsylvania-home/

I don't read these stories and think, "Guns. SMDH." I think, "idiots."

 

[TheCainer]

I don't blame the officer, and I don't think he is either. The point he is trying to make is this is, yet again, a situation where guns did not make the situation better, guns made them worse.

That was exactly my point. Maybe I didn't make it clear. The gun presented by the father escalated this event, and, unfortunately, the response by the officer resulted in the tragedy. If somehow guns could be removed from the equation, maybe peaceful resolutions could be reached. That was my point. Pointed guns seem to hurt the possibility of peaceful resolutions in too many conflicts.

 

[qazplm]

I don't read these stories and think, "Guns. SMDH." I think, "idiots."

I think both, because idiots with guns is way worse than idiots without guns.

 

[IlluminatiEXPOSETHEMNOW1]

That was exactly my point. Maybe I didn't make it clear. The gun presented by the father escalated this event, and, unfortunately, the response by the officer resulted in the tragedy. If somehow guns could be removed from the equation, maybe peaceful resolutions could be reached. That was my point. Pointed guns seem to hurt the possibility of peaceful resolutions in too many conflicts.

The only reason the government wants the guns is so they can slaughter the US population. Out of all the things below which cause many times more death than guns. They want to death camp mass kill the US public and slaughter face stomp the public. Only they ain't getting them guy. Pout out all day about it that the leftists didn't get them. Now once the government mass exterminates the US public (as they are planning) they are going to get an armed public waiting for them.


ident or Manner of Injury

Total Deaths in 2000

One Year Odds [1 in #]

Lifetime Odds [1 in #]









Pedestrian

5,870

46,901

610

Pedalcyclist

740

372,035

4,838

Motorcycle rider

2,765

99,568

1,295

Occupant of three-wheeled motor vehicle

23

11,969,826

155,654

Car occupant

14,813

18,585

242

Occupant of pick-up truck or van

3,268

84,243

1,095

Occupant of heavy transport vehicle

369

746,087

9,702

Bus occupant

20

13,765,300

179,003

Animal rider or occupant of animal-drawn vehicle

97

2,838,206

36,908

Occupant of railway train or railway vehicle

30

9,176,867

119,335

Occupant of streetcar

1

275,306,000

3,580,052

Other and unspecified land transport accidents

16,850

16,339

212

Occupant of special industrial vehicle

15

18,353,733

238,670

Occupant of special agricultural vehicle

273

1,008,447

13,114

Occupant of special construction vehicle

37

7,440,703

96,758

Occupant of all-terrain or other off-road motor vehicle

717

383,969

4,993

Other and unspecified person

15,808

17,416

226

Water transport accidents

630

436,994

5,683

Drowning

466

590,785

7,683

Other and unspecified injuries

164

1,678,695

21,830

Air and space transport accidents

777

354,319

4,608

Other and unspecified transport accidents and sequelae

496

555,052

7,218

Other specified transport accidents

2

137,653,000

1,790,026

Unspecified transport accident

4

68,826,500

895,013

Transport Accidents

46,749

5,889

77

Falls

13,322

20,666

269

Fall on same level from slipping, tripping and stumbling

565

487,267

6,336

Other fall on same level

1,885

146,051

1,899

Fall involving bed, chair, other furniture

650

423,548

5,508

Fall on and from stairs and steps

1,307

210,640

2,739

Fall on and from ladder or scaffolding

412

668,218

8,689

Fall from out of or through building or structure

506

544,083

7,075

Other fall from one level to another

687

400,737

5,211

Other and unspecified fall

7,310

37,662

490

Exposure to inanimate mechanical forces

2,768

99,460

1,293

Struck by or striking against object

877

313,918

4,082

Caught between objects

84

3,277,452

42,620

Contact with machinery

676

407,257

5,296

Contact with sharp objects

80

3,441,325

44,751

Firearms discharge

776

354,776

4,613

Explosion and rupture of pressurized devices

30

9,176,867

119,335

Fireworks discharge

5

55,061,200

716,010

Explosion of other materials

167

1,648,539

21,437

Foreign body entering through skin or natural orifice

36

7,647,389

99,446

Other and unspecified inanimate mechanical forces

37

7,440,703

96,758

Exposure to animate mechanical forces

204

1,349,539

17,549

Struck by or against another person

61

4,513,213

58,689

Bitten or struck by dog

26

10,588,692

137,694

Bitten or struck by other mammals

65

4,235,477

55,078

Bitten or stung by nonvenomous insect and other arthropods

9

30,589,556

397,784

Bitten or crushed by other reptiles

31

8,880,839

115,486

Other and unspecified animate mechanical forces

12

22,942,167

298,338

Accidental drowning and submersion

3,482

79,065

1,028

Drowning and submersion while in or falling into bath-tub

341

807,349

10,499

Drowning and submersion while in or falling into swimming-pool

567

485,549

6,314

Drowning and submersion while in or falling into natural water

1,135

242,560

3,154

Other and unspecified drowning and submersion

1,439

191,318

2,488

Other accidental threats to breathing

5,648

48,744

634

Accidental suffocation and strangulation in bed

327

841,914

10,948

Other accidental hanging and strangulation falling earth and other substances

333

826,745

10,751

Threat to breathing due to cave-in

64

4,301,656

55,938

Inhalation of gastric contents

382

720,696

9,372

Inhalation and ingestion of food causing obstruction of respiratory tract

744

370,035

4,812

Inhalation and ingestion of other objects causing obstruction of respiratory tract

3,187

86,384

1,123

Confined to or trapped in a low-oxygen environment

15

18,353,733

238,670

Other and unspecified threats to breathing

596

461,923

6,007

Exposure to electric current, radiation, temperature, and pressure

419

657,055

8,544

Electric transmission lines

99

2,780,869

36,162

Other and unspecified electric current

296

930,088

12,095

Radiation

0

---

---

Excessive heat or cold of man-made origin

12

22,942,167

298,338

High and low air pressure and changes in air pressure

12

22,942,167

298,338

Other and unspecified man-made environmental factors

0

---

---

Exposure to smoke, fire and flames

3,377

81,524

1,060

Uncontrolled fire in building or structure

2,776

99,174

1,290

Uncontrolled fire not in building or structure

68

4,048,618

52,648

Controlled fire in building or structure

50

5,506,120

71,601

Controlled fire not in building or structure

29

9,493,310

123,450

Ignition of highly flammable material

65

4,235,477

55,078

Ignition or melting of nightwear

9

30,589,556

397,784

Ignition or melting of other clothing and apparel

116

2,373,328

30,863

Other and unspecified smoke fire and flames

264

1,042,826

13,561

Contact with heat and hot substances

110

2,502,782

32,546

Contact with hot tap-water

55

5,005,564

65,092

Other and unspecified heat and hot substances

55

5,005,564

65,092

Contact with venomous animals and plants

80

3,441,325

44,751

Contact with venomous snakes and lizards

12

22,942,167

298,338

Contact with venomous spiders

5

55,061,200

716,010

Contact with hornets, wasps and bees

54

5,098,259

66,297

Contact with other and unspecified venomous animal or plant

9

30,589,556

397,784

Exposure to forces of nature

1,223

225,107

2,927

Exposure to excessive natural heat

301

914,638

11,894

Exposure to excessive natural cold

742

371,032

4,825

Lightning

50

5,506,120

71,601

Earthquake and other earth movements

35

7,865,886

102,287

Cataclysmic storm

49

5,618,490

73,062

Flood

5

55,061,200

716,010

Exposure to other and unspecified forces of nature

41

6,714,780

87,318

Accidental poisoning by and exposure to noxious substances

12,757

21,581

281

Nonopioid analgesics antipyretics and antirheumatics

176

1,564,239

20,341

Antiepileptic sedative-hypnotic antiparkinsonism and psychotropic drugs n.e.c.

704

391,060

5,085

Narcotics and psychodysleptics [hallucinogens] n.e.c.

6,139

44,845

583

Other and unspecified drugs medicaments and biologicals

4,693

58,663

763

Alcohol

302

911,609

11,854

Gases and vapours

631

436,301

5,674

Other and unspecified chemicals and noxious substances

112

2,458,089

31,965

Overexertion, travel and privation

185

1,488,141

19,352

Accidental exposure to other and unspecified factors and sequelae

7,576

36,339

473

Nontransport Unintentional (Accidental) Injuries

51,151

5,382

70

Deaths Due to Unintentional (Accidental) Injuries

97,900

2,812

37









Intentional self-poisoning

4,859

56,659

737

Intentional self-harm by hanging, strangulation, and suffocation

5,688

48,401

629

Intentional self-harm by firearm

16,586

16,599

216

Other and unspecified means and sequelae

2,217

124,180

1,615

Intentional self-harm

29,350

9,380

122

Assault by firearm

10,801

25,489

331

Assault by sharp object

1,805

152,524

1,983

Other and unspecified means and sequelae

4,159

66,195

861

Assault

16,765

16,421

214

Poisoning

2,557

107,668

1,400

Hanging, strangulation, and suffocation

104

2,647,173

34,424

Drowning and submersion

231

1,191,801

15,498

Firearm discharge

230

1,196,983

15,565

Exposure to smoke, fire, and flames

76

3,622,447

47,106

Falling, jumping, or pushed from a high place

55

5,005,564

65,092

Other and unspecified means and sequelae

566

486,406

6,325

Event of undetermined intent

3,819

72,089

937

Legal intervention involving firearm discharge

270

1,019,652

13,259

Legal execution

80

3,441,325

44,751

Other and unspecified means and sequelae

9

30,589,556

397,784

Legal intervention

359


9,972

Operations of war and sequelae

16

17,206,625

223,753

Complications of medical and surgical care and sequelae

3,059

89,999

1,170









All External Causes of Mortality

151,268

1,820

24

 

[qazplm]

The only reason the government wants the guns is so they can slaughter the US population. Out of all the things below which cause many times more death than guns. They want to death camp mass kill the US public and slaughter face stomp the public. Only they ain't getting them guy. Pout out all day about it that the leftists didn't get them. Now once the government mass exterminates the US public (as they are planning) they are going to get an armed public waiting for them.


ident or Manner of Injury

Total Deaths in 2000

One Year Odds [1 in #]

Lifetime Odds [1 in #]









Pedestrian

5,870

46,901

610

Pedalcyclist

740

372,035

4,838

Motorcycle rider

2,765

99,568

1,295

Occupant of three-wheeled motor vehicle

23

11,969,826

155,654

Car occupant

14,813

18,585

242

Occupant of pick-up truck or van

3,268

84,243

1,095

Occupant of heavy transport vehicle

369

746,087

9,702

Bus occupant

20

13,765,300

179,003

Animal rider or occupant of animal-drawn vehicle

97

2,838,206

36,908

Occupant of railway train or railway vehicle

30

9,176,867

119,335

Occupant of streetcar

1

275,306,000

3,580,052

Other and unspecified land transport accidents

16,850

16,339

212

Occupant of special industrial vehicle

15

18,353,733

238,670

Occupant of special agricultural vehicle

273

1,008,447

13,114

Occupant of special construction vehicle

37

7,440,703

96,758

Occupant of all-terrain or other off-road motor vehicle

717

383,969

4,993

Other and unspecified person

15,808

17,416

226

Water transport accidents

630

436,994

5,683

Drowning

466

590,785

7,683

Other and unspecified injuries

164

1,678,695

21,830

Air and space transport accidents

777

354,319

4,608

Other and unspecified transport accidents and sequelae

496

555,052

7,218

Other specified transport accidents

2

137,653,000

1,790,026

Unspecified transport accident

4

68,826,500

895,013

Transport Accidents

46,749

5,889

77

Falls

13,322

20,666

269

Fall on same level from slipping, tripping and stumbling

565

487,267

6,336

Other fall on same level

1,885

146,051

1,899

Fall involving bed, chair, other furniture

650

423,548

5,508

Fall on and from stairs and steps

1,307

210,640

2,739

Fall on and from ladder or scaffolding

412

668,218

8,689

Fall from out of or through building or structure

506

544,083

7,075

Other fall from one level to another

687

400,737

5,211

Other and unspecified fall

7,310

37,662

490

Exposure to inanimate mechanical forces

2,768

99,460

1,293

Struck by or striking against object

877

313,918

4,082

Caught between objects

84

3,277,452

42,620

Contact with machinery

676

407,257

5,296

Contact with sharp objects

80

3,441,325

44,751

Firearms discharge

776

354,776

4,613

Explosion and rupture of pressurized devices

30

9,176,867

119,335

Fireworks discharge

5

55,061,200

716,010

Explosion of other materials

167

1,648,539

21,437

Foreign body entering through skin or natural orifice

36

7,647,389

99,446

Other and unspecified inanimate mechanical forces

37

7,440,703

96,758

Exposure to animate mechanical forces

204

1,349,539

17,549

Struck by or against another person

61

4,513,213

58,689

Bitten or struck by dog

26

10,588,692

137,694

Bitten or struck by other mammals

65

4,235,477

55,078

Bitten or stung by nonvenomous insect and other arthropods

9

30,589,556

397,784

Bitten or crushed by other reptiles

31

8,880,839

115,486

Other and unspecified animate mechanical forces

12

22,942,167

298,338

Accidental drowning and submersion

3,482

79,065

1,028

Drowning and submersion while in or falling into bath-tub

341

807,349

10,499

Drowning and submersion while in or falling into swimming-pool

567

485,549

6,314

Drowning and submersion while in or falling into natural water

1,135

242,560

3,154

Other and unspecified drowning and submersion

1,439

191,318

2,488

Other accidental threats to breathing

5,648

48,744

634

Accidental suffocation and strangulation in bed

327

841,914

10,948

Other accidental hanging and strangulation falling earth and other substances

333

826,745

10,751

Threat to breathing due to cave-in

64

4,301,656

55,938

Inhalation of gastric contents

382

720,696

9,372

Inhalation and ingestion of food causing obstruction of respiratory tract

744

370,035

4,812

Inhalation and ingestion of other objects causing obstruction of respiratory tract

3,187

86,384

1,123

Confined to or trapped in a low-oxygen environment

15

18,353,733

238,670

Other and unspecified threats to breathing

596

461,923

6,007

Exposure to electric current, radiation, temperature, and pressure

419

657,055

8,544

Electric transmission lines

99

2,780,869

36,162

Other and unspecified electric current

296

930,088

12,095

Radiation

0

---

---

Excessive heat or cold of man-made origin

12

22,942,167

298,338

High and low air pressure and changes in air pressure

12

22,942,167

298,338

Other and unspecified man-made environmental factors

0

---

---

Exposure to smoke, fire and flames

3,377

81,524

1,060

Uncontrolled fire in building or structure

2,776

99,174

1,290

Uncontrolled fire not in building or structure

68

4,048,618

52,648

Controlled fire in building or structure

50

5,506,120

71,601

Controlled fire not in building or structure

29

9,493,310

123,450

Ignition of highly flammable material

65

4,235,477

55,078

Ignition or melting of nightwear

9

30,589,556

397,784

Ignition or melting of other clothing and apparel

116

2,373,328

30,863

Other and unspecified smoke fire and flames

264

1,042,826

13,561

Contact with heat and hot substances

110

2,502,782

32,546

Contact with hot tap-water

55

5,005,564

65,092

Other and unspecified heat and hot substances

55

5,005,564

65,092

Contact with venomous animals and plants

80

3,441,325

44,751

Contact with venomous snakes and lizards

12

22,942,167

298,338

Contact with venomous spiders

5

55,061,200

716,010

Contact with hornets, wasps and bees

54

5,098,259

66,297

Contact with other and unspecified venomous animal or plant

9

30,589,556

397,784

Exposure to forces of nature

1,223

225,107

2,927

Exposure to excessive natural heat

301

914,638

11,894

Exposure to excessive natural cold

742

371,032

4,825

Lightning

50

5,506,120

71,601

Earthquake and other earth movements

35

7,865,886

102,287

Cataclysmic storm

49

5,618,490

73,062

Flood

5

55,061,200

716,010

Exposure to other and unspecified forces of nature

41

6,714,780

87,318

Accidental poisoning by and exposure to noxious substances

12,757

21,581

281

Nonopioid analgesics antipyretics and antirheumatics

176

1,564,239

20,341

Antiepileptic sedative-hypnotic antiparkinsonism and psychotropic drugs n.e.c.

704

391,060

5,085

Narcotics and psychodysleptics [hallucinogens] n.e.c.

6,139

44,845

583

Other and unspecified drugs medicaments and biologicals

4,693

58,663

763

Alcohol

302

911,609

11,854

Gases and vapours

631

436,301

5,674

Other and unspecified chemicals and noxious substances

112

2,458,089

31,965

Overexertion, travel and privation

185

1,488,141

19,352

Accidental exposure to other and unspecified factors and sequelae

7,576

36,339

473

Nontransport Unintentional (Accidental) Injuries

51,151

5,382

70

Deaths Due to Unintentional (Accidental) Injuries

97,900

2,812

37









Intentional self-poisoning

4,859

56,659

737

Intentional self-harm by hanging, strangulation, and suffocation

5,688

48,401

629

Intentional self-harm by firearm

16,586

16,599

216

Other and unspecified means and sequelae

2,217

124,180

1,615

Intentional self-harm

29,350

9,380

122

Assault by firearm

10,801

25,489

331

Assault by sharp object

1,805

152,524

1,983

Other and unspecified means and sequelae

4,159

66,195

861

Assault

16,765

16,421

214

Poisoning

2,557

107,668

1,400

Hanging, strangulation, and suffocation

104

2,647,173

34,424

Drowning and submersion

231

1,191,801

15,498

Firearm discharge

230

1,196,983

15,565

Exposure to smoke, fire, and flames

76

3,622,447

47,106

Falling, jumping, or pushed from a high place

55

5,005,564

65,092

Other and unspecified means and sequelae

566

486,406

6,325

Event of undetermined intent

3,819

72,089

937

Legal intervention involving firearm discharge

270

1,019,652

13,259

Legal execution

80

3,441,325

44,751

Other and unspecified means and sequelae

9

30,589,556

397,784

Legal intervention

359


9,972

Operations of war and sequelae

16

17,206,625

223,753

Complications of medical and surgical care and sequelae

3,059

89,999

1,170









All External Causes of Mortality

151,268

1,820

24

Dangit man, how do you keep finding out about all of our secret plans??!!

 

[gr8indoorsman]

I think both, because idiots with guns is way worse than idiots without guns.

There is no plausible way that I can think of to prevent idiots from getting guns and still allow law-abiding citizens to keep them.

 

[qazplm]

There is no plausible way that I can think of to prevent idiots from getting guns and still allow law-abiding citizens to keep them.

sure there are...none of the dem proposals prevent law abiding citizens from keeping guns. Registration, mandatory training, background checks, etc don't keep law abiding citizens from having guns...even waiting periods don't.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

sure there are...none of the dem proposals prevent law abiding citizens from keeping guns. Registration, mandatory training, background checks, etc don't keep law abiding citizens from having guns...even waiting periods don't.

None of those keep idiots from getting guns, either.

 

[qazplm]

None of those keep idiots from getting guns, either.

sure they do... Not every single one but some.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

sure they do... Not every single one but some.

Aren't the vast majority of those in place in most places? I know they are in California (waiting periods, background checks, etc.). Background checks are only as effective as the body conducting them. We should probably fix those first, considering Charleston. And then how do you prevent folks like the people in San Bernadino from obtaining weapons illegally from people who purchased them legally?

Many of the major gun crimes we lament were conducted by folks who circumvented the systems already in place, and none of which would've been prevented by the measures you cited above (already mentioned: Charleston, San Bernadino. Add Sandy Hook (illegally obtained legal weapons)).

Believe it or not, I'm not arguing this to say, "we don't need more gun control." I'm arguing, "we need measures that work and none of the crap being proposed will make anything more than marginally better."

Right now, I can't get a concealed carry permit in San Diego county unless I can prove my life is in danger by proving a credible threat. How do you know a threat is credible? Do you have to wait until someone takes a shot at you while you're defenseless? Hopefully, this ridiculous law is overturned in Federal Court as is expected.

 

[qazplm]

Aren't the vast majority of those in place in most places? I know they are in California (waiting periods, background checks, etc.). Background checks are only as effective as the body conducting them. We should probably fix those first, considering Charleston. And then how do you prevent folks like the people in San Bernadino from obtaining weapons illegally from people who purchased them legally?

Many of the major gun crimes we lament were conducted by folks who circumvented the systems already in place, and none of which would've been prevented by the measures you cited above (already mentioned: Charleston, San Bernadino. Add Sandy Hook (illegally obtained legal weapons)).

Believe it or not, I'm not arguing this to say, "we don't need more gun control." I'm arguing, "we need measures that work and none of the crap being proposed will make anything more than marginally better."

Right now, I can't get a concealed carry permit in San Diego county unless I can prove my life is in danger by proving a credible threat. How do you know a threat is credible? Do you have to wait until someone takes a shot at you while you're defenseless? Hopefully, this ridiculous law is overturned in Federal Court as is expected.

Some are in place, some are not, some have loopholes or interpretations that allow ways to bypass. And as you note, some of them vary from state to state.

No one said "you can prevent every incident of gun violence" with anything....but you can't prevent every incident of rape with laws against rape, but we still have em.

And it seems to me the purpose of concealed carry is what? How will crooks/murderers know to be afraid of you? Are they going to stand in front of you and let you get your gun out? Why not mandate exposed carry? At least that would make logical sense as a method of reducing crime, not that I think it a great idea either.

And if you are going to insist on broad right to bear arms, then "marginally better" is about all you can do...but even one life better is worth it IMO.

 

[Purdue85]

This is a truly sad story about a father who stood up to authority in the delivering of an eviction notice and sadly his daughter paid the ultimate price. How does this story relate to the current standoff in Oregon? Why does a 12 year old girl die in one case and a cast of malcontents live on in a developing national story?

What is wrong here? Isn't there a peaceful solution that can be found where such tragic losses can be avoided? Is compassion a forgotten human trait?

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/12-...ring-familys-eviction-from-pennsylvania-home/

yes, my gun is the problem.

I MUST(!) make sure he stays home at night. Must be sneaking out while I'm sleeping....

 

[BoilerMadness]

Some are in place, some are not, some have loopholes or interpretations that allow ways to bypass. And as you note, some of them vary from state to state.

No one said "you can prevent every incident of gun violence" with anything....but you can't prevent every incident of rape with laws against rape, but we still have em.

And it seems to me the purpose of concealed carry is what? How will crooks/murderers know to be afraid of you? Are they going to stand in front of you and let you get your gun out? Why not mandate exposed carry? At least that would make logical sense as a method of reducing crime, not that I think it a great idea either.

And if you are going to insist on broad right to bear arms, then "marginally better" is about all you can do...but even one life better is worth it IMO.

The point of "concealed carry" is that criminals won't know if they're dealing with someone armed or unarmed. Haven't you noticed, that most of the mass shootings occur in "gun free" zones. Have you ever wondered why a "gun free" zone might be attractive to a guy wanting to kill a bunch of people?

Even the NFL is considering allowing Cops/ex-cops to go to games carrying their weapons. Apparently, they understand the concept of shooting fish in a barrel and they don't want their stadiums to become the next barrel.

If the mere presence of guns was the biggest indicator of gun violence, Texas, Florida, and Wyoming would be shooting ranges, with blood flowing in the streets, yet that's not the case. NY, Illinois, MD and California have a significantly greater incidence of gun violence and they have some of the toughest gun laws in the country. Street gangs account for most of the shootings, but with the highly restrictive gun laws, criminals know they probably won't encounter someone with a gun in the non-criminal sector, so they are emboldened.

You're never going to eliminate crazy people going on killing sprees, whether it's with a gun, driving a car into a crowd (Las Vegas) or using pressure cookers. Based on practical experience within the U.S., you actually decrease the amount of gun crime by making it easier for sane, non-criminals to own guns.

Regarding your "rape" analogy, it's not valid. We have over 20,000 Gun Control laws on the books in this country, yet every time there is a shooting, the anti-gun crowd and the politicians catering to them start clamoring for another Gun Control law. Yeah, that next law will solve the problem. When a rape occurs, I don't recall ever hearing people calling for more "rape" laws. They just want better enforcement of the existing laws. Hmmm, that approach actually makes sense.

 

[qazplm]

The point of "concealed carry" is that criminals won't know if they're dealing with someone armed or unarmed. Haven't you noticed, that most of the mass shootings occur in "gun free" zones. Have you ever wondered why a "gun free" zone might be attractive to a guy wanting to kill a bunch of people?

Even the NFL is considering allowing Cops/ex-cops to go to games carrying their weapons. Apparently, they understand the concept of shooting fish in a barrel and they don't want their stadiums to become the next barrel.

If the mere presence of guns was the biggest indicator of gun violence, Texas, Florida, and Wyoming would be shooting ranges, with blood flowing in the streets, yet that's not the case. NY, Illinois, MD and California have a significantly greater incidence of gun violence and they have some of the toughest gun laws in the country. Street gangs account for most of the shootings, but with the highly restrictive gun laws, criminals know they probably won't encounter someone with a gun in the non-criminal sector, so they are emboldened.

You're never going to eliminate crazy people going on killing sprees, whether it's with a gun, driving a car into a crowd (Las Vegas) or using pressure cookers. Based on practical experience within the U.S., you actually decrease the amount of gun crime by making it easier for sane, non-criminals to own guns.

Regarding your "rape" analogy, it's not valid. We have over 20,000 Gun Control laws on the books in this country, yet every time there is a shooting, the anti-gun crowd and the politicians catering to them start clamoring for another Gun Control law. Yeah, that next law will solve the problem. When a rape occurs, I don't recall ever hearing people calling for more "rape" laws. They just want better enforcement of the existing laws. Hmmm, that approach actually makes sense.

Have you met criminals? They don't remotely engage in that kind of analysis. They go after low hanging fruit. By that reasoning (don't know if armed or not) then folks should not put bars on their windows because then folks know which house has security and will target them somehow. If you have concealed carry, criminals are not spending time thinking, everyone might have a gun, so I can't rob/attack/whatnot anyone.

And lo and behold, when they do studies on concealed carry, most do not find any statistically relevant data to suggest that they decrease crime, in fact, some studies have found that they correlate to increases in assaults (although I suspect that's more correlation than causation). The point is that there is no evidence that the "common sense" argument that not knowing which victims have guns and which dont will lead to less crime is actually true.

There is no evidence that "most mass shootings occur in "gun free" zones." Evidence of that please. Mass shooters are not seeking out "gun free zones" to conduct their mass shootings. They chose their victims for all sorts of reasons, or, wait for it, no logical reason at all. Of course, mass shootings are RARE, in fact, one percent of all gun deaths, and they are on the decline, so why we'd make policy over something that rarely happens and is in decline, well you will have to explain that to me.

75% of homicides are due to handguns...mass shooters don't tend to use handguns, although certain some do. The next time folks go on a mass shooting rampage in an NFL Stadium will be the first that I'm tracking. The fact the NFL is making some decision is evidence of what exactly? (It's evidence that the NFL is making some decision, that's it). If they decide against it would you consider that evidence of something?

My rape analogy is perfectly valid. The argument is, why pass laws if not everyone will follow them and if one or more people might ignore them. The response is we pass laws against all manner of harms/crimes, and none of them remove that crime from existence.

And yes, people in fact are clamoring for more rape laws. I've spent the last ten years dealing with two, separate, massive changes to sexual assault laws due to perceptions, fair or not, of a sexual assault problem in the military, not simply "better enforcement of existing law."

Civilian sexual assault law has changed at the state level quite a lot in recent years in response to perceived problems as well.

"Street Gangs" do not account for most shootings. Most shootings are actually suicides...over 60% in fact. Yes, crime happens more in Metropolitan areas than non-Metropolitan areas. Of course, the vast majority of Americans happen to live in a Metropolitan area...so that might explain that. Even so the difference in murder rate between the two is 4.7 vice 3.3 per 100,000 people. That's not exactly a huge difference.

You want to know what is most likely to lead to increased gun deaths and gun related crime? Not "street gangs" or "gun free zones" but how many 17-24 year old kids you have around.

I could go on, but what's the point when you've absorbed every pro gun "fact" there is.

 

[IlluminatiEXPOSETHEMNOW1]

Have you met criminals? They don't remotely engage in that kind of analysis. They go after low hanging fruit. By that reasoning (don't know if armed or not) then folks should not put bars on their windows because then folks know which house has security and will target them somehow. If you have concealed carry, criminals are not spending time thinking, everyone might have a gun, so I can't rob/attack/whatnot anyone.

There is no evidence that "most mass shootings occur in "gun free" zones." Evidence of that please. Mass shooters are not seeking out "gun free zones" to conduct their mass shootings.

90% of shootings occur in California, NY, and Chicago. Hence gun control zones. 90%. I could care less though to the contrary if 100% of all shootings happened in the most heavily armed civilian population in America. A disarmed population is in danger thousands of times over. You got to love these people. The congress just put a bill through that allows the president to use the US military in mass and deploy them to slaughter the US population. Something magnitudes over anything ever witnessed in this country even leaping King George before the Revolutionary War. A government Congress that abdicates its duties illegally and in sedition. Simultaneously that same government puts out psychological warfare to demonize and disarm Americans. Do you realize that?

Even Democratic liberal communists are completely freaked out. Oh what you didn't know that only governments intent on slaughtering their populations disarm those they want to kill? ON VIDEO

Want to know why the government wants to disarm Americans? Might want to watch this video. It is called they are planning to slaughter 50 million Americans. It is a simple formula. Obama red carpets ISIS into the United States. In the name of fighting them Obama unleashes the US army to occupy the country and once in place will slaughter the US population. This is a classic bait and switch operation and whether it is Obama or Hillary, they on paper are making preparations to move against the US population and camouflage it with ISIS. ISIS is only a diversion to be the excuse so the population stands down like they did on 911. Like Hitler's enabling act, Hitler burns down the government and blames his false enemy, 50 million die. I got some news for you, bills like this aren't put out there because they love the public. This is a slaughter plan by Obama to murder the country. This is HIGH TREASON.




You gotta love that the same people calling for this have armed bodyguards and are enemies of the country and meet foreign leaders and laugh in America's face? But let's talk about pistols in the hands of Americans and punish them. How about that. Don't worry about any of this.

 

[BoilerMadness]

Have you met criminals? They don't remotely engage in that kind of analysis. They go after low hanging fruit. By that reasoning (don't know if armed or not) then folks should not put bars on their windows because then folks know which house has security and will target them somehow. If you have concealed carry, criminals are not spending time thinking, everyone might have a gun, so I can't rob/attack/whatnot anyone.

And lo and behold, when they do studies on concealed carry, most do not find any statistically relevant data to suggest that they decrease crime, in fact, some studies have found that they correlate to increases in assaults (although I suspect that's more correlation than causation). The point is that there is no evidence that the "common sense" argument that not knowing which victims have guns and which dont will lead to less crime is actually true.

There is no evidence that "most mass shootings occur in "gun free" zones." Evidence of that please. Mass shooters are not seeking out "gun free zones" to conduct their mass shootings. They chose their victims for all sorts of reasons, or, wait for it, no logical reason at all. Of course, mass shootings are RARE, in fact, one percent of all gun deaths, and they are on the decline, so why we'd make policy over something that rarely happens and is in decline, well you will have to explain that to me.

75% of homicides are due to handguns...mass shooters don't tend to use handguns, although certain some do. The next time folks go on a mass shooting rampage in an NFL Stadium will be the first that I'm tracking. The fact the NFL is making some decision is evidence of what exactly? (It's evidence that the NFL is making some decision, that's it). If they decide against it would you consider that evidence of something?

My rape analogy is perfectly valid. The argument is, why pass laws if not everyone will follow them and if one or more people might ignore them. The response is we pass laws against all manner of harms/crimes, and none of them remove that crime from existence.

And yes, people in fact are clamoring for more rape laws. I've spent the last ten years dealing with two, separate, massive changes to sexual assault laws due to perceptions, fair or not, of a sexual assault problem in the military, not simply "better enforcement of existing law."

Civilian sexual assault law has changed at the state level quite a lot in recent years in response to perceived problems as well.

"Street Gangs" do not account for most shootings. Most shootings are actually suicides...over 60% in fact. Yes, crime happens more in Metropolitan areas than non-Metropolitan areas. Of course, the vast majority of Americans happen to live in a Metropolitan area...so that might explain that. Even so the difference in murder rate between the two is 4.7 vice 3.3 per 100,000 people. That's not exactly a huge difference.

You want to know what is most likely to lead to increased gun deaths and gun related crime? Not "street gangs" or "gun free zones" but how many 17-24 year old kids you have around.

I could go on, but what's the point when you've absorbed every pro gun "fact" there is.

Yeah, I've known a few criminals in my life and some do engage in that level of analysis. Hmmm, "Where is the lowest hanging fruit?", "Where can I get away with robbing someone, with the least amount of personal threat?" That's not exactly "rocket scientist" analysis. Just because people engage in crime, does not mean they're incapable of thought, but then again, I'm sure that you think you know everything there is to know about the criminal mind. I'm not saying criminals are all geniuses, since there are indeed a lot of stupid criminals, but the vast majority do have a strong self-preservation instinct and they do have "street smarts". If they're going after an easy score, they're smart enough to go where they'll meet with the least resistance and avoid areas, where they may put themselves in jeopardy, hence "gun free zones" are the lowest hanging fruit.

Regarding your "bars in the windows" comment, why don't you take it one step further. Put a sign in your window, that says, "Gun Free Zone" and see how that works for you. Bars or no bars doesn't really tell you anything about what a criminal might expect to find inside the house, but if you announce your house is a "gun free" zone, you become low hanging fruit.

There is no evidence that "most mass shootings occur in "gun free" zones." Evidence of that please. Just look at all the mass shootings in the U.S. over the last ten years. How many of them occurred in an area, that was NOT a gun free zone? Failure to acknowledge that evidence exists is not the same as there being no evidence.

I'm glad you mentioned that 60% of all shootings are suicides. So how will adding a few dozen more gun laws affect the suicide rate? It won't. One of my neighbors just lost his wife of 45 years to cancer and he was very distraught. His son took away his handgun, because they were afraid, that he may decide to join her. He told me, if he wanted to end it all, he could do it easily enough without a gun. He said his wife had enough meds in the house, that he could take a bottle of Jack Daniels to wash down his wife's meds, and he would never see tomorrow. The gun is just a tool, that can be used or abused. BTW, my neighbor is still with us and he's coping as well as he can.

The next time folks go on a mass shooting rampage in an NFL Stadium will be the first that I'm tracking. NFL execs were responding to the shooting that occurred in the concert in France. They realized that having that many people confined to a large "Gun free" zone, like an NFL stadium, would make it tantamount to giving a terrorist 60K+ fish in a barrel. Yes, the NFL does have security at the gates, but it's not the greatest and the security force they have on hand, would be insufficient if a shooter or group of shooters wanted to make some headlines. At least they're trying to be proactive on the subject.

You want to know what is most likely to lead to increased gun deaths and gun related crime? Not "street gangs" or "gun free zones" but how many 17-24 year old kids you have around. That has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've read in years. In one fell swoop, you're condemning ALL 17-24 year old kids. Brilliant. Let's just exterminate them all and we'll be in a crime free world. Pure genius!! I suspect that a large number of those 17-24 year old kids, that are involved in shootings do belong to gangs or are involved in drug trafficking, but why quibble. Let's just indict them all.

 

[qazplm]

Yeah, I've known a few criminals in my life and some do engage in that level of analysis. Hmmm, "Where is the lowest hanging fruit?", "Where can I get away with robbing someone, with the least amount of personal threat?" That's not exactly "rocket scientist" analysis. Just because people engage in crime, does not mean they're incapable of thought, but then again, I'm sure that you think you know everything there is to know about the criminal mind. I'm not saying criminals are all geniuses, since there are indeed a lot of stupid criminals, but the vast majority do have a strong self-preservation instinct and they do have "street smarts". If they're going after an easy score, they're smart enough to go where they'll meet with the least resistance and avoid areas, where they may put themselves in jeopardy, hence "gun free zones" are the lowest hanging fruit.

Regarding your "bars in the windows" comment, why don't you take it one step further. Put a sign in your window, that says, "Gun Free Zone" and see how that works for you. Bars or no bars doesn't really tell you anything about what a criminal might expect to find inside the house, but if you announce your house is a "gun free" zone, you become low hanging fruit.

There is no evidence that "most mass shootings occur in "gun free" zones." Evidence of that please. Just look at all the mass shootings in the U.S. over the last ten years. How many of them occurred in an area, that was NOT a gun free zone? Failure to acknowledge that evidence exists is not the same as there being no evidence.

I'm glad you mentioned that 60% of all shootings are suicides. So how will adding a few dozen more gun laws affect the suicide rate? It won't. One of my neighbors just lost his wife of 45 years to cancer and he was very distraught. His son took away his handgun, because they were afraid, that he may decide to join her. He told me, if he wanted to end it all, he could do it easily enough without a gun. He said his wife had enough meds in the house, that he could take a bottle of Jack Daniels to wash down his wife's meds, and he would never see tomorrow. The gun is just a tool, that can be used or abused. BTW, my neighbor is still with us and he's coping as well as he can.

The next time folks go on a mass shooting rampage in an NFL Stadium will be the first that I'm tracking. NFL execs were responding to the shooting that occurred in the concert in France. They realized that having that many people confined to a large "Gun free" zone, like an NFL stadium, would make it tantamount to giving a terrorist 60K+ fish in a barrel. Yes, the NFL does have security at the gates, but it's not the greatest and the security force they have on hand, would be insufficient if a shooter or group of shooters wanted to make some headlines. At least they're trying to be proactive on the subject.

You want to know what is most likely to lead to increased gun deaths and gun related crime? Not "street gangs" or "gun free zones" but how many 17-24 year old kids you have around. That has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've read in years. In one fell swoop, you're condemning ALL 17-24 year old kids. Brilliant. Let's just exterminate them all and we'll be in a crime free world. Pure genius!! I suspect that a large number of those 17-24 year old kids, that are involved in shootings do belong to gangs or are involved in drug trafficking, but why quibble. Let's just indict them all.

I have to laugh, when you have a definitive opinion on something with no facts provided by the way, it's truth, when I have a definitive opinion on something, backed up by facts, then I'm a know it all who thinks he knows everything. It's a wonderful rhetorical device for distraction.

IF a meaningful number of criminals "thought" about what you say they thought about then we'd see statistically evidence that concealed carry states reduced crime. They don't. So it hasn't nothing to do with whether or not I "know everything." I don't have to know everything, I just need to know one thing, concealed carry laws don't reduce crime...and I only need to know more than you, which is like needing to be faster than an invalid.

If there were evidence that "gun free zones" led to more crime, your silly point would have some basis...of course, you provide none...probably because there is none. I don't know what a "gun free zone" is, but if you are talking about hospitals or schools, the last time I checked crooks are not lining up to rob kids as they come out the school house, or people discharged from a hospital. Most crime happens where young kids and poverty meet, and that has nothing to do with "gun free zones."

"Just look at all the mass shootings, they were all in gun free zones!"

1. Navy Yard shooting was not a "gun free zone."
2. Brookfield WI shooting was not a "gun free zone."
3. 2012 Minneapolis shooting was not in a "gun free zone."
4. 2011 Seal Beach CA shooting was not

I could go on and on listing out other mass shootings for which there is no evidence of a "gun free zone."

But hey let's add some more evidence:
http://www.westword.com/news/gun-co...-shootings-happened-in-gun-free-zones-5856078

85% of mass shootings do NOT happen in "gun free zones."
57% of mass shootings involve someone the shooter knows.

MOST mass shootings involve someone either shooting up a work place, or a school and know at least some of the folks there...a rational person would come up with multiple reasons why that might be other than "gun free zone."

LMAO, I'm not "condemning all 17-24 year old kids" I'm recognizing the statistical reality that a large percentage of crime depends on two factors: poverty levels and the number of 17-24 year olds. Criminals tend to slow down in the commission of crimes as they age. These are all basic criminology facts. That you find these basic facts laughable is in fact a little sad, and shows how much time I'm wasting.

 

[IlluminatiEXPOSETHEMNOW1]

The right to have a gun has about ZERO to do with defending against criminals. The founding fathers put the right to have guns in the constitution so that the mass population can defend itself against a killer government. For when the government goes door to door and rounds people up for mass extermination. The British were planning to mass exterminate the US population in the 1770's and attempted to disarm the US population back then; everyone knows what happened next.

A killer government happens when hell raiser level killers assume control of the government either through secret societies, or by camouflaging to deceive the electorate so that they are elected and subsequently reverse the country's constitution, laws, tradition, and creates upheaval by playing segments of the population against one another to destroy the country within. Then after they destroy the country economically, socially, the country is nothing more than a vessel for takeover and merger into a larger system where the population is usually exterminated in the process. This conquest model has gone back to before Rome. When a country is taken over the government always exterminates most of the host population so that there will be ineffective resistance.

When a government attempts to control guns it is to exterminate the population and enslave it permanently. This is what happens to a disarmed public. They get run over and thrashed. Government styled. Obama styled.

They take your guns, they buy billions of rounds of ammo (hollow point bullets) for their planned extermination of the US population. Hitler had a Homeland Security called Deutschland Security. They had an Enabling Act. The NEW WORLD ORDER gave the US Homeland Security and the Patriot Act. You starting to get the picture yet? They bought 2 billion rounds of ammo about 7 bullets for every man women and child in the United States. EXTERMINATION BEING PLANNED.

ON VIDEO

 

[qazplm]

The right to have a gun has about ZERO to do with defending against criminals. The founding fathers put the right to have guns in the constitution so that the mass population can defend itself against a killer government. For when the government goes door to door and rounds people up for mass extermination. The British were planning to mass exterminate the US population in the 1770's and attempted to disarm the US population back then; everyone knows what happened next.

A killer government happens when hell raiser level killers assume control of the government either through secret societies, or by camouflaging to deceive the electorate so that they are elected and subsequently reverse the country's constitution, laws, tradition, and creates upheaval by playing segments of the population against one another to destroy the country within. Then after they destroy the country economically, socially, the country is nothing more than a vessel for takeover and merger into a larger system where the population is usually exterminated in the process. This conquest model has gone back to before Rome. When a country is taken over the government always exterminates most of the host population so that there will be ineffective resistance.

When a government attempts to control guns it is to exterminate the population and enslave it permanently. This is what happens to a disarmed public. They get run over and thrashed. Government styled. Obama styled.

They take your guns, they buy billions of rounds of ammo (hollow point bullets) for their planned extermination of the US population. Hitler had a Homeland Security called Deutschland Security. They had an Enabling Act. The NEW WORLD ORDER gave the US Homeland Security and the Patriot Act. You starting to get the picture yet? They bought 2 billion rounds of ammo about 7 bullets for every man women and child in the United States. EXTERMINATION BEING PLANNED.

ON VIDEO

View embedded media

Yes your handgun would totally defend against the US Military.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

1. Navy Yard shooting was not a "gun free zone."

Yes it was. The building and WNY themselves are gun-free areas for anyone other than posted guards (at the gates only). Security at the building does not carry, and concealed/personal carry within WNY is prohibited.

 

[qazplm]

Yes it was. The building and WNY themselves are gun-free areas for anyone other than posted guards (at the gates only). Security at the building does not carry, and concealed/personal carry within WNY is prohibited.

The guy was shot at by guards within a short-time. It's a "base" with armed security folks on it. It was not a "gun free zone" whereby anyone in their right minds would go and say "I'm the only guy with a gun here." It was not, for example, a university where guns were not allowed and the guards there are also generally not packing (and there is no guarded entry/exit).

 

[gr8indoorsman]

It's a "base" with armed security folks on it.

Which is pretty much exactly what I said... but in the context of your discussion, it is a gun free zone in that ordinary civilians cannot carry.

 

[qazplm]

Which is pretty much exactly what I said... but in the context of your discussion, it is a gun free zone in that ordinary civilians cannot carry.

No, it isn't...the context of the discussion is that a "gun free zone" is a place where guns are forbidden and a criminal has no worry that anyone has a gun to stop him. That does not remotely describe the Naval Yard or the vast majority of military installations. It might describe a hospital or a college or other school or whatnot, it was patently disproven by the actual facts of the Naval Yard shooting.

But hey, let's get tied up in this for awhile so as to distract by all the other data on this argument I provided.

 

[IlluminatiEXPOSETHEMNOW1]

No, it isn't...the context of the discussion is that a "gun free zone" is a place where guns are forbidden and a criminal has no worry that anyone has a gun to stop him. That does not remotely describe the Naval Yard or the vast majority of military installations. It might describe a hospital or a college or other school or whatnot, it was patently disproven by the actual facts of the Naval Yard shooting.

But hey, let's get tied up in this for awhile so as to distract by all the other data on this argument I provided.

It was a gun free zone. Gun free. The SWAT team was also ordered to stand down and put on leave of absence after the shooting to keep their damn mouths shut about how it was a staged shooting. That is their words not mine. They were ordered to stand down and let the shooting proceed. That and besides the point the shooter had a classified security clearance. If anything that is more reason the public needs to be armed because the man in a uniform is twice as likely to kill you as any criminal is. Government is the business of killing people. It is the most efficient thing government has ever done in world history. It is a slaughterhouse organization.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

No, it isn't...the context of the discussion is that a "gun free zone" is a place where guns are forbidden and a criminal has no worry that anyone has a gun to stop him. That does not remotely describe the Naval Yard or the vast majority of military installations. It might describe a hospital or a college or other school or whatnot, it was patently disproven by the actual facts of the Naval Yard shooting.

But hey, let's get tied up in this for awhile so as to distract by all the other data on this argument I provided.

Semantics. I don't care about the rest of your argument, only pointing out one inaccuracy. Interesting that the gun is what finally stopped the violence though.

 

[qazplm]

Semantics. I don't care about the rest of your argument, only pointing out one inaccuracy. Interesting that the gun is what finally stopped the violence though.

A gun is also what started the violence, and of course you don't care about the rest of the argument.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

A gun is also what started the violence, and of course you don't care about the rest of the argument.

Actually, in both cases, a person started and ended the violence. And no, I don't, because I won't convince you of anything, nor will you me.

 

[qazplm]

Actually, in both cases, a person started and ended the violence. And no, I don't, because I won't convince you of anything, nor will you me.

No a person with a gun. He didn't go on a "mass punchout" or even a "mass stabbing."

 

[destewart]

1. What is totally lost in the gun debate is how few murders are actually accounted for annually in a nation with more than 300 million guns.

2. Rational people who ordinarily scream to high heaven about regressive tax rates or any public policy that discriminates against people based on socio economic status have no problem with discriminating against those with the least in the gun debate. Many call for higher taxes on weapons and bullets and permits which reduces the number if people who CSN own guns based on their net worth.

Meanwhile, Liberal politicians, corporate executives, Hollywood Elites, etc call for strict gun controls and either have permits themselves or employ armed bodyguards or security details.

"All men are created equal" except when it comes to gun owner ships and personal security!

 

[IlluminatiEXPOSETHEMNOW1]

1. What is totally lost in the gun debate is how few murders are actually accounted for annually in a nation with more than 300 million guns.

2. Rational people who ordinarily scream to high heaven about regressive tax rates or any public policy that discriminates against people based on socio economic status have no problem with discriminating against those with the least in the gun debate. Many call for higher taxes on weapons and bullets and permits which reduces the number if people who CSN own guns based on their net worth.

Meanwhile, Liberal politicians, corporate executives, Hollywood Elites, etc call for strict gun controls and either have permits themselves or employ armed bodyguards or security details.

"All men are created equal" except when it comes to gun owner ships and personal security!

That is what is so amazing about these people. People that have armed guards with machine-guns telling the American public that their second amendment doesn't count no more. That the public must surrender and be obedient to them. That is incredible. Their lives matter. They get to be armed while the public gets to be lashed like somebody's punk. Only a chump of the highest order even contemplates gun control. It is the equivalent of a free man willfully walking onto a plantation and begging his owner to place him in chains and slap him around. Only that is exactly what these leftist national socialists want to do. They want to hurt people and they know that isn't going to be possible in an armed America.

 

[qazplm]

That is what is so amazing about these people. People that have armed guards with machine-guns telling the American public that their second amendment doesn't count no more. That the public must surrender and be obedient to them. That is incredible. Their lives matter. They get to be armed while the public gets to be lashed like somebody's punk. Only a chump of the highest order even contemplates gun control. It is the equivalent of a free man willfully walking onto a plantation and begging his owner to place him in chains and slap him around. Only that is exactly what these leftist national socialists want to do. They want to hurt people and they know that isn't going to be possible in an armed America.

#guncontrolisslavery

I'm sure you can get that trending on twitter...it's such solid logic.