Sweet...a little love.
http://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...et-new-final-four-picks-no-1-seeds-surprises/
http://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...et-new-final-four-picks-no-1-seeds-surprises/
Jerry Palm has us in his Final Four
- Thread starter Abugabby
- Start date
I don't think Purdue has lacked "love" at all...maybe early on when considering polls, but, they had plenty of love from Jay Bilas (who is not quick to offer praise), CBS when they did the Wisconsin game, Bardo commented during the Iowa game when Purdue was ranked 17th that there was no way in the world that there were 16 better teams, and they were in a prime position to move up nicely in the polls had they won the Minnesota game.
I am not sure how anyone (Palm or otherwise) could make Purdue a FF pick other than just looking for a darkhorse, especially at this point where there are almost more questions than answers for/with Purdue. Purdue may not even finish in the top 4 in the conference, in what is not a strong B1G...they should, and hopefully will, but it is not a given certainly given the inauspicious start in conference play.
There is no dominant team this year, which makes a FF appearance a possibility for many more teams than would usually be the case, and Purdue played right with one of the teams that many consider almost a lock for the FF (Villanova).
It will come down to matchups certainly...but, it will also come down to Purdue and what they do/how they perform.
I think the big ten has no elite team this year, but I dont agree that it is down... Almost all of the teams except Rutgers and maybe Iowa are solid teams. Almost all the teams again sans those 2 are top 100 RPI teams, most of which in the top 60
And that's why the pick surprised me. I don't follow him too closely but I don't recall him being a homer when talking about Purdue or making his picks. Could be wrong.
Palm had us in the Elite 8 last year. So maybe we get one round farther this year!
Here's the thing with this year's team. We're on weekend of hot shooting away from getting there. I think of the 2002 run that IU made to the national title game with a less-than-spectacular roster from a talent perspective. The way I remember it, they got a bit lucky to upset Duke but otherwise rode a hot-shooting streak to the national championship game. We have the shooters this season to make something like that possible. I'm not predicting it, but we are capable of knocking down 10+ 3 pointers in any given game.
I don't want to take anything away from the 2002 Hoosiers --- who absolutely earned the right to play in the title game. But, they also benefited from a crazy broken bracket:
vs. #12 Utah
vs. #13 Wilmington
vs. #1 Duke
vs. #10 Kent State
Has any other team ever faced three double-digit seeds on the way to the Final Four?
vs. #12 Utah
vs. #13 Wilmington
vs. #1 Duke
vs. #10 Kent State
Has any other team ever faced three double-digit seeds on the way to the Final Four?
"I am not sure how anyone (Palm or otherwise) could make Purdue a FF pick other than just looking for a darkhorse"
It's all matchups and a little luck for many teams that make the Final Four. But one thing has remained very consistent, Final Four teams almost always have very strong guard play...which is definitely an area one could argue has costed a few really good Purdue teams a real shot. That being said, with the emergence of Carsen as a deadly penetration threat to break down defenses and a slough of guys on fire from beyond the arc AND two of the best post players in the nation...this may be the first year my bracket shows Purdue in the Final Four since Kramer's senior year with Landry. I may not be "anyone" but I am a realist when it comes to my Boilermakers.
I'd guess it's happened other times....but the immediate one coming to mind is 2012 Kansas.
The Jayhawks were the #2 seed in the Midwest bracket.
#15 Detroit
#10 Purdue
#11 North Carolina State
#1 North Carolina
They did benefit from some upsets but the most notable in the bracket was their own upset of Duke. I'm going to guess that there have been Final Four teams that got there without beating a top 4 seed which, imo, is an even easier path than this one.
I have thought the same. They may have been overrated last year and underrated this year. Last year, the B1G was considered very strong with multiple highly rated teams. But a mediocre IU team won outright and then they all bowed out of the tournament early. This year's tournament will tell.
From my "informal research department," it has happened more times than you might guess, but as far as I can tell, only involving another top-four seed (and usually a 1-seed). Going back to '85 (the first year of expanded 64-team field):
2016 - North Carolina (1) - #16, #9, #5, #6
2008 - Kansas (1) - #16, #8, #12, #10
2005 - North Carolina (1) - #16, #9, #5, #6
2004 - Duke (1) - #16, #8, #5, #7
2004 - Connecticut (2) - #15, #7, #6, #8
2003 - Texas (1) - #16, #9, #5, #7
2001 - Michigan State (1) - #16, #9, #12, #11
1999 - Duke (1) - #16, #9, #12, #6
1999 - Connecticut (1) - #16, #9, #5, #10
1993 - Michigan (1) - #16, #9, #12, #7
1992 - Cincinnati (4) - #13, #9, #5, #6
1991 - North Carolina (1) - #16, #9, #12, #10
1990 - Arkansas (4) - #13, #12, #8, #10
1990 - UNLV (1) - #16, #8, #12, #11
1988 - Oklahoma (1) - #16, #8, #5, #6
1987 - Indiana (1) - #16, #8, #5, #10
1986 - Duke (1) - #16, #8, #12, #7
1986 - Kansas (1) - #16 , #9, #5, #6
Somebody should check my work, because I'm relying upon un-paid volunteers who have nothing better to do.
Interestingly, Purdue was in a few of these brackets....2003 Texas, 1999 Duke, and 1990 Arkansas.
I'm still mad at the basketball gods for not pushing that Hummel 3 from the wing 4 more inches for a make. I can still picture it and it would have been for the win, right?
Duh! Can't believe I forgot about that one, since it happened not so long ago and involved Purdue. Good call, Tex!
That was a heartbreak loss for Purdue. The Old Gold and Black was just so-so in Robbie Hummel's 5th year, but we did lead Kansas for much of that game and had a chance to close it out until Lew Jack's turnover. Would have been a huge upset.
So, it has happened several times that a team advanced to the Final Four by beating three double-digit seeds:
2012 Kansas
2008 Kansas (lucky bastards)
2002 Indiana
2001 MSU (somehow didn't have to face anybody better than a 9 in the regional)
1991 North Carolina
1990 Arkansas
1990 UNLV (lots of upsets that year --- or some seriously under-seeded teams)
My apologies to Indiana.
It would have put Purdue up two with time left on the clock (8 seconds or so)....Kansas would have been able to get another possession to force OT or win with a three.
Btw, my research department tells me, here's the other 3-double digit seed occurrences:
2010 - West Virginia (2) - #15, #10, #11, #1
2008 - Kansas (1) - #16, #8, #12, #10
2001 - Michigan State (1) - #16, #9, #12, #11
2001 - Maryland (3) - #14, #11, #10, #1
1997 - Arizona (4) - #13, #12, #1, #10
1991 - North Carolina (1) - #16, #9, #12, #10
1990 - Arkansas (4) - #13, #12, #8, #10
1990 - UNLV (1) - #16, #8, #12, #11
TGIF!
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You honestly could ask 10 sports fans who Jerry Palm is, and 10 would not know. Ask another 10, and they wouldn't know. 10 more, and they wouldn't know. Maybe in the next 10? That being said....this years team is nearly unbeatable, I mean seriously almost NOT beatable, when they hit the outside shot. Consequently, they almost can't beat anyone, I mean almost nobody, when they don't. All it takes is for them to get hot at the right time and a deep run is possible. Could they make an Elite8? Final Four? Absolutely. And, could they get embarrassed in the first round. Yep. This team is deadly from the perimeter. But, dangerously one dimensional. One bad matchup and the tourney run is over. But, one hot shooting night against that same opponent and they don't have a snowballs chance in hell. This team will go as far as it shoots. That's it in a nutshell. Shoot and win, or not shoot and lose. Simple.
How did you get all of THAT to fit in a nutshell?
Naw. Not even close to every team in America. Some teams will press an opponent to win. Some will defensively lock-down a team to keep a game within striking distance. Some have gimmicky, unique or innovative offenses to win. Some will run and gun with very up tempo to win. But, the bottom line is I don't care about the rest of the nations teams. I worry about Purdue being so dependent on the 3. I do think CE can develop into a major part of expanding our threat in other parts of the offense. Right now, we don't really have a dependable answer if a team is capable of taking away our inside game for a tourney run. To reach a FF we'd need 4 straight games of high percentage shooting from outside. Can they? Of course. Will they? I would not bet money on it in a tourney of talented teams. I'd like to see some creativity and penetration to put pressure on the defenses we'll face. Something to force teams to pay for shutting down our inside other than jacking up bricks and accepting that's all we are.
I think we are an intriguing team for analysts this year. We have some personalities with Biggie and Haas that stick out and they like to write/talk about them. Also I think they'll be about 16 teams that could actually win the whole thing this year and we would be one of them. That said, we showed little identity in the last two tournaments so I wouldn't bet on us if I were not a Purdue Grad.. Since I am I will pick us to go far. Blood is thicker I guess. Go Boilers!
Bad matchups, hot shooting, better at one dimensional than another..............this describes many teams, and what needs to happen en route to the final four.
At least you've gone from "every team in America" to "Describes many".
I'll buy that. I still care little about those "many" teams. I'd like for my Boilers to be more balanced and creative to fall back onto if a talented team does what Iowa did.
At least you've gone from "every team in America" to "Describes many".
boiler-deuce said: ↑
You honestly could ask 10 sports fans who Jerry Palm is, and 10 would not know. Ask another 10, and they wouldn't know. 10 more, and they wouldn't know. Maybe in the next 10? That being said....this years team is nearly unbeatable, I mean seriously almost NOT beatable, when they hit the outside shot. Consequently, they almost can't beat anyone, I mean almost nobody, when they don't. All it takes is for them to get hot at the right time and a deep run is possible. Could they make an Elite8? Final Four? Absolutely. And, could they get embarrassed in the first round. Yep. This team is deadly from the perimeter. But, dangerously one dimensional. One bad matchup and the tourney run is over. But, one hot shooting night against that same opponent and they don't have a snowballs chance in hell. This team will go as far as it shoots. That's it in a nutshell. Shoot and win, or not shoot and lose. Simple.
So if a team hits their shots, gets hot at the right time, or has a good match up they can win..........if not, they can lose. OK, not just a Boilermaker problem LOL. That's all I'm saying. I also think that the Boilers are more dimensional than you credit them for. Deadly shooting, as you said, and POTY candidate on the interior is a combo that a lot of teams wish they had. Does it show every game? no. But to label them one dimensional is a bit harsh. But we can agree to disagree on this as well.
BTW, I asked my IU buddy, yep I have an IU buddy, if he has ever heard of Jerry Palm..........and he did. Lucky? Maybe, but I'm 1/1 on people I've asked LOL!
Yes, if they don't they can be beaten by an Iowa in the tourney due to being so reliant on the 3. You call it harsh, I call it reality and admission of truth. And, congrats on the IU buddy. We probably all have them. I asked 29 of my IU buddies and none knew him...so my percentage is pretty spot on. LOL
I get that. But that is a worry for every team, not just PU. You have to play good to win LOL.
Good shooting team, good interior play (for the most part), good FT shooting team (1st in BIG 10 up till today I believe)..........that's more than one dimension right there. Can they get reliant on the 3 and lose? sure. But there are other strengths to this team. Now, TO's................that's my worry.
29 IU buddies..........damn! LOL
Agree with a lot of what you said, minus Purdue not finishing top 4. They're certainly going to finish top 3/4 but I doubt we win the regular season title.
One step at at time for 10e before I pencil the Boilers to advance at anytime.
Play stong basketball(starting Tuesday night) and finish strong. B10 would be great but I love see this team win 3 straight games in DC as a targeted goal.
BI0 tournament champs sounds really good heading into the first round.
Play stong basketball(starting Tuesday night) and finish strong. B10 would be great but I love see this team win 3 straight games in DC as a targeted goal.
BI0 tournament champs sounds really good heading into the first round.
Good shooting team. When they are "good", we're nearly unbeatable. FT%- (1)Mich: 78.8% (2)NW: 76.2% (3)PennSt: 75.4% (4)Purdue: 74.5%. Not first. 12th in blocked shots. 13th in steals. 12th in TO margin. 11th in Off Rebs. We're stellar in the categories were I think it's evidence of being one dimensional if the 3 doesn't fall. The categories that we struggle point to our lack of creativity and having something else to fall back on to win a stretch of games in a tourney setting. You're going to face teams who will just decide they will not let us beat them from the perimeter. We need a consistent answer for that. I just don't see it right now. Iowa is a game that teams will use film from and attempt to have the same result. Just like last year with the press. Painter never solved the problem. Now, if VE uses the Penn St game as his coming out party, that'd be nice. He along with CE, IMO, can provide us with that punishing alternative to being a simple offense and one dimensional. Those two have the potential to open up the opportunities for our front court. It's up to Painter to find a way to make it happen. Or, not and roll the dice with the 3. And, yeah a bunch of my family are IU fans. Not to mention a bunch of In-laws. They married into the mess. LOL
We just have differing opinions on this matter is all. Purdue being mentioned as a possible final four caliber team doesn't make me fall off my chair. Every team has to play well to win, too many good teams out there. Even then you can lose. Purdue, IMO, has enough tools, dimensions, strengths, etc to get them there........they also could stumble. It happens, and this is why you play the game. This can be said about ANY team. Every team is beatable if they don't play to their strength. Even with PU's strengths and a POTY candidate on the inside, it is way to early to predict final fours IMO. But it is good to see PU as an early possibility.
I have a sister that went to IU...........but we still love her
