It's not as bad as you think

[boiler_pride]

I will try to do the unthinkable and defend Shoop. Yes I understand this will probably make your blood boil and you will think I'm an idiot -- or Mr. Shoop himself (or his mom). Well, I'm not saying I'm Shoop's mom, but I'm not saying I'm NOT Shoop's mom either!

First off, I think everyone is a bit too hard on Shoop based on our play in the 4th Q. I understand - we took our foot off the gas in the 4th and couldn't finish. However, let's look at the overall game a bit more closely.

First, the game stats. 34:47 possession vs. Marshall's 25:13. 28 first downs vs 20 for Marshall. 454 yards vs. 397. Statistically, our offense dominated. Where we failed was turnovers. 4 for us and 3 for Marshall. And as you well know, 2 of our turnovers resulted in 14 points for them.

We had 48 pass attempts vs 47 runs. The ratio was 39 vs 47 before the disastrous last two drives. We had several really good drivers. 11 play, 75 yard drive after the initial SNAFU. 12 play 72 yard drive to take a 21-17 lead. And most crucially, 15-play 70 yard drive that ended in a FG with 10:14 left. In addition, we had several really nice runs, a 50-yard pass play to the sideline (beautiful throw), a great 26-yard, drive-extending 3rd down catch (when was the last time we had one of those?), a couple of smart RB screens that went quite a bit, and a highlight TD pass where Appleby stiff armed the defender while throwing a TD. These were not plays we have seen the last few years.

Let me ask you two questions:

1. If we execute a decent 2-minute offense at the end of the 4th, do you think everyone would think Shoop and the playcalling sucks?
2. If Appleby doesn't miss the TE on that 15-play drive, do you think we still lose this game?

Look, I think our 2-minute offense really needs to improve A LOT. We missed a great chance at the end of 1st half (Appleby with an inexcusable sack/fumble) and we didn't even get a chance at the end of the game. We had the same problem last year. I think we made several mistakes both individually (Appleby turnovers specifically) and coaching-wise (a few too many 3-and-outs, a few questionable pass plays with 3rd and short, and one really questionable QB draw in long FG range). However, I also think Shoop did a pretty good job for the most part. I enjoyed our offense. I remember thinking "Wow we have receivers now!" a few times. I couldn't say that last year. The RBs ran hard, the OL held up well for the most part. Even Appleby commanded the offense well when he wasn't making game-changing mistakes.

I think if we clean up our individual big mistakes, and if we get a 2-minute offense going, we can be pretty successful with Shoop managing this offense. When I look at this game beyond the score, I liked what I saw for the most part. We're not completely there, but we're not as far as the score indicated IMO.

Thanks for reading!

 

[SIBoiler2]

GREAT POST!!!! From now on we should just call it a game after 3 quarters and move on. The 4th quarter really doesn't matter.

 

[FLAG HUNTER]

"IF" doesn't matter, what matters is what really happened.

 

[Statey]

"IF" doesn't matter, what matters is what really happened.

That's true, but if you can point to 1 or 2 executions - not called plays - that went terribly wrong that drastically impacted the game, I think you can make a case that the game plan designed by the OC wasn't completely worthless, nor was it single greatest reason Purdue lost. I think that was the OP's point.

That pick 6 to start the game was 100% on Austin's execution. I highly doubt he's making that same throw in practice and the staff are patting him on the back for it, or otherwise encouraging it. That isn't on the staff. Secondly, that was a well-drawn-up 5-yard pass into the corner of the end zone for a TD that AA overshot (and that's putting it politely). That's an 11-point swing; if I remember, Purdue got the field goal after the missed TD pass, so it wasn't an empty possession.

This isn't to say it's all on Austin by any means, just trying to point out that there is pretty good logic in the OP's post. Football is usually a game won or lost in the trenches on the line. I think most people would agree Purdue won that battle, dominated the clock, and disrupted the flow of Marshall's offense. A lot of people were saying going into that game that Marshall was the superior team, and Purdue proved - to me at least - that Marshall wasn't. They made a couple big plays and capitalized on them with the defensive scores.

My last comment, not necessarily related to the above... AA gets most of the blame for that 2nd pick 6, but geez, somebody could help tackle the guy after the INT. He ran it back like 60 yards; it wasn't like the first one where he jumped the route and could have walked into the endzone.

 

[SIBoiler2]

That's true, but if you can point to 1 or 2 executions - not called plays - that went terribly wrong that drastically impacted the game, I think you can make a case that the game plan designed by the OC wasn't completely worthless, nor was it single greatest reason Purdue lost. I think that was the OP's point.

That pick 6 to start the game was 100% on Austin's execution. I highly doubt he's making that same throw in practice and the staff are patting him on the back for it, or otherwise encouraging it. That isn't on the staff. Secondly, that was a well-drawn-up 5-yard pass into the corner of the end zone for a TD that AA overshot (and that's putting it politely). That's an 11-point swing; if I remember, Purdue got the field goal after the missed TD pass, so it wasn't an empty possession.

This isn't to say it's all on Austin by any means, just trying to point out that there is pretty good logic in the OP's post. Football is usually a game won or lost in the trenches on the line. I think most people would agree Purdue won that battle, dominated the clock, and disrupted the flow Marshall offense. A lot of people were saying going into that game that Marshall was the superior team, and Purdue proved - to me at least - that Marshall wasn't. The made a couple big plays and capitalized on them with the defensive scores.

My last comment, not necessarily related to the above... AA gets most of the blame for that 2nd pick 6, but geez, somebody could help tackle the guy after the INT. He ran it back like 60 yards; it wasn't like the first one where he jumped the route and could have walked into the endzone.

All valid points. I'm betting you could find points like this in most of the games the last two years but it doesn't change the fact that DH is 4-21 over that span. Sooner or later you've got to get to the point where the scoreboard has us with more points at the end than the opponent. Until then a missed play here or there have no impact.

 

[timster]

At what point does the Team and Staff lose confidence in AA
1-7
Missing wide open short throws
Missed reads on coverage and routes
Keeping when should pitch ball

My wife asked me last night - why can't Purdue coach up or recruit QBs at a school
that has had great QBs?

 

[SIBoiler2]

At what point does the Team and Staff lose confidence in AA
1-7
Missing wide open short throws
Missed reads on coverage and routes
Keeping when should pitch ball

My wife asked me last night - why can't Purdue coach up or recruit QBs at a school
that has had great QBs?

They can recruit those guys. They just have a nitwit coaching them so they never get better than their senior year in HS by the time they are replaced.

 

[Hatter22]

There was indeed lots to be happy about Sunday. As someone astutely pointed out, we had a lot less players cramp then Marshall did, so there's that. Clearly, the tackling on offense has to improve - we'll need to spend more time on that in practice - I don't blame the staff for the poor offensive tackling - they probably did not game plan for the 4 int's. They will fix this.

Anyone can nit-pick - looking at the final score, our 4-21 overall record, our 1-15 conference record, blah, blah blah -- but that's just short-sighted negative folks being negative. These are the same folks who got Hope ran off just when he was on the cusp of taking us back to the Rose Bowl in 2013.

We can't fix everything all at once, but things are happening. We took care of the "Notre Dame Problem" with some out-of-the box thinking with the schedule. We no longer have to worry about losing to them in hearbreaking fashion every year. Why is no one getting credit for this?

We have this "egg" thing - no one else has that. I didn't really follow the egg story all that closely, but it sounds very unique and can only help with recruiting and so forth. In as little as 5 years you will see the effect of this on the field, just as we saw a big up-tick in recruiting when we played Oregon in 2008 and 2009 and reaped the benefits of more national exposure.

We have all this extra muscle added during the off season - why is everyone ignoring that?

We are undefeated against FCS foes under this staff. That's called "taking care of business".

Perhaps most importantly, we have an offensive system that prooduces very predictable, consistent results regardless of who is playing quarterback. Henry, Etling, Appleby have all been inserted into this system and the results are always the same. The only other school in the country that can say this is Ohio State. Pretty good company, if you ask me.

The rebuild is right on schedule - stop worrying about finishing last in the conference, the inability to beat mid-major opponents, finishing last in the conference, all the "I's" being strung together in the old oaken bucket, and stay the course. All is well.

 

[SIBoiler2]

There was indeed lots to be happy about Sunday. As someone astutely pointed out, we had a lot less players cramp then Marshall did, so there's that. Clearly, the tackling on offense has to improve - we'll need to spend more time on that in practice - I don't blame the staff for the poor offensive tackling - they probably did not game plan for the 4 int's. They will fix this.

Anyone can nit-pick - looking at the final score, our 4-21 overall record, our 1-15 conference record, blah, blah blah -- but that's just short-sighted negative folks being negative. These are the same folks who got Hope ran off just when he was on the cusp of taking us back to the Rose Bowl in 2013.

We can't fix everything all at once, but things are happening. We took care of the "Notre Dame Problem" with some out-of-the box thinking with the schedule. We no longer have to worry about losing to them in hearbreaking fashion every year. Why is no one getting credit for this?

We have this "egg" thing - no one else has that. I didn't really follow the egg story all that closely, but it sounds very unique and can only help with recruiting and so forth. In as little as 5 years you will see the effect of this on the field, just as we saw a big up-tick in recruiting when we played Oregon in 2008 and 2009 and reaped the benefits of more national exposure.

We have all this extra muscle added during the off season - why is everyone ignoring that?

We are undefeated against FCS foes under this staff. That's called "taking care of business".

Perhaps most importantly, we have an offensive system that prooduces very predictable, consistent results regardless of who is playing quarterback. Henry, Etling, Appleby have all been inserted into this system and the results are always the same. The only other school in the country that can say this is Ohio State. Pretty good company, if you ask me.

The rebuild is right on schedule - stop worrying about finishing last in the conference, the inability to beat mid-major opponents, finishing last in the conference, all the "I's" being strung together in the old oaken bucket, and stay the course. All is well.

You can write anything you want but when you state that "Hope was on the cusp of taking us back to the Rose Bowl in 2013" you lost all credibility.

 

[NashvilleBoiler]

There was indeed lots to be happy about Sunday. As someone astutely pointed out, we had a lot less players cramp then Marshall did, so there's that. Clearly, the tackling on offense has to improve - we'll need to spend more time on that in practice - I don't blame the staff for the poor offensive tackling - they probably did not game plan for the 4 int's. They will fix this.

Anyone can nit-pick - looking at the final score, our 4-21 overall record, our 1-15 conference record, blah, blah blah -- but that's just short-sighted negative folks being negative. These are the same folks who got Hope ran off just when he was on the cusp of taking us back to the Rose Bowl in 2013.

We can't fix everything all at once, but things are happening. We took care of the "Notre Dame Problem" with some out-of-the box thinking with the schedule. We no longer have to worry about losing to them in hearbreaking fashion every year. Why is no one getting credit for this?

We have this "egg" thing - no one else has that. I didn't really follow the egg story all that closely, but it sounds very unique and can only help with recruiting and so forth. In as little as 5 years you will see the effect of this on the field, just as we saw a big up-tick in recruiting when we played Oregon in 2008 and 2009 and reaped the benefits of more national exposure.

We have all this extra muscle added during the off season - why is everyone ignoring that?

We are undefeated against FCS foes under this staff. That's called "taking care of business".

Perhaps most importantly, we have an offensive system that prooduces very predictable, consistent results regardless of who is playing quarterback. Henry, Etling, Appleby have all been inserted into this system and the results are always the same. The only other school in the country that can say this is Ohio State. Pretty good company, if you ask me.

The rebuild is right on schedule - stop worrying about finishing last in the conference, the inability to beat mid-major opponents, finishing last in the conference, all the "I's" being strung together in the old oaken bucket, and stay the course. All is well.

Well played sir.

 

[Statey]

All valid points. I'm betting you could find points like this in most of the games the last two years but it doesn't change the fact that DH is 4-21 over that span. Sooner or later you've got to get to the point where the scoreboard has us with more points at the end than the opponent. Until then a missed play here or there have no impact.

No disagreement with your latter point at all. You're spot on. I just feel the offense was successful enough to win the game, short of the first awful pick-6 and the desperation one in the 4th quarter. In other words, the middle 50 minutes of that game was Purdue's. Didn't get a W, it is what it is, but I don't subscribe to the theory that because the offense didn't outscore the other team that it must be all Shoop's fault like some people do. It isn't that simple to me.

 

[BBG]

First off, I think everyone is a bit too hard on Shoop based on our play in the 4th Q. I understand - we took our foot off the gas in the 4th and couldn't finish.

You might be right in that we are being too hard on Shoop, if this hadn't already been going on for multiple seasons. We've been through multiple QB's and a mountain of excuses and what is the common denominator in all of that? Shoop and to an extent Hazell.

Now the defense looked improved, rusty, but improved. The same cannot be said for the offense, it looked like it picked right up where it left off last season.

 

[Hatter22]

You can write anything you want but when you state that "Hope was on the cusp of taking us back to the Rose Bowl in 2013" you lost all credibility.

I intended to be out of credibility by the end of the first sentence. You were ok with the cramp advantage I pointed out?

 

[SIBoiler2]

You might be right in that we are being too hard on Shoop, if this hadn't already been going on for multiple seasons. We've been through multiple QB's and a mountain of excuses and what is the common denominator in all of that? Shoop and to an extent Hazell.

Now the defense looked improved, rusty, but improved. The same cannot be said for the offense, it looked like it picked right up where it left off last season.

I think you may have hit on something here. Why would DH want to get rid of Shoop?? If offensive stupidity continues after he is replaced Hazzell is exposed as the problem.

 

[banshee90]

They can recruit those guys. They just have a nitwit coaching them so they never get better than their senior year in HS by the time they are replaced.

We can either blame his play calling or his QB coaching this loss falls on shoop. If we were talking about a .500 win team I think you could get some leeway from me but this is a .167 win team. If you want to start blaming players for the 83% loss rate we have go ahead.

 

[West James]

How bad is it? A

I will try to do the unthinkable and defend Shoop. Yes I understand this will probably make your blood boil and you will think I'm an idiot -- or Mr. Shoop himself (or his mom). Well, I'm not saying I'm Shoop's mom, but I'm not saying I'm NOT Shoop's mom either!

First off, I think everyone is a bit too hard on Shoop based on our play in the 4th Q. I understand - we took our foot off the gas in the 4th and couldn't finish. However, let's look at the overall game a bit more closely.

First, the game stats. 34:47 possession vs. Marshall's 25:13. 28 first downs vs 20 for Marshall. 454 yards vs. 397. Statistically, our offense dominated. Where we failed was turnovers. 4 for us and 3 for Marshall. And as you well know, 2 of our turnovers resulted in 14 points for them.

We had 48 pass attempts vs 47 runs. The ratio was 39 vs 47 before the disastrous last two drives. We had several really good drivers. 11 play, 75 yard drive after the initial SNAFU. 12 play 72 yard drive to take a 21-17 lead. And most crucially, 15-play 70 yard drive that ended in a FG with 10:14 left. In addition, we had several really nice runs, a 50-yard pass play to the sideline (beautiful throw), a great 26-yard, drive-extending 3rd down catch (when was the last time we had one of those?), a couple of smart RB screens that went quite a bit, and a highlight TD pass where Appleby stiff armed the defender while throwing a TD. These were not plays we have seen the last few years.

Let me ask you two questions:

1. If we execute a decent 2-minute offense at the end of the 4th, do you think everyone would think Shoop and the playcalling sucks?
2. If Appleby doesn't miss the TE on that 15-play drive, do you think we still lose this game?

Look, I think our 2-minute offense really needs to improve A LOT. We missed a great chance at the end of 1st half (Appleby with an inexcusable sack/fumble) and we didn't even get a chance at the end of the game. We had the same problem last year. I think we made several mistakes both individually (Appleby turnovers specifically) and coaching-wise (a few too many 3-and-outs, a few questionable pass plays with 3rd and short, and one really questionable QB draw in long FG range). However, I also think Shoop did a pretty good job for the most part. I enjoyed our offense. I remember thinking "Wow we have receivers now!" a few times. I couldn't say that last year. The RBs ran hard, the OL held up well for the most part. Even Appleby commanded the offense well when he wasn't making game-changing mistakes.

I think if we clean up our individual big mistakes, and if we get a 2-minute offense going, we can be pretty successful with Shoop managing this offense. When I look at this game beyond the score, I liked what I saw for the most part. We're not completely there, but we're not as far as the score indicated IMO.

Thanks for reading!

How bad is it? And if we lose to Indiana State? I could be wrong, [wouldn't be the first or last time for that] I thought I read we were 7 point favorites going into the Marshall game? Were the "experts" wrong, we have a rain cloud hoovering over our heads [again] that game, or, maby the stars were alligned wrong? If we lose to ISU, the yank Hazell folks are going to be loud & open about their feelings, & with good reason.



Go Boilers!!!

Toby Miles

 

[banshee90]

How bad is it? A



How bad is it? And if we lose to Indiana State? I could be wrong, [wouldn't be the first or last time for that] I thought I read we were 7 point favorites going into the Marshall game? Were the "experts" wrong, we have a rain cloud hoovering over our heads [again] that game, or, maby the stars were alligned wrong? If we lose to ISU, the yank Hazell folks are going to be loud & open about their feelings, & with good reason.



Go Boilers!!!

Toby Miles

Marshall was the favorites on sunday the spread was like 7 or 8.

 

[West James]

I will try to do the unthinkable and defend Shoop. Yes I understand this will probably make your blood boil and you will think I'm an idiot -- or Mr. Shoop himself (or his mom). Well, I'm not saying I'm Shoop's mom, but I'm not saying I'm NOT Shoop's mom either!

First off, I think everyone is a bit too hard on Shoop based on our play in the 4th Q. I understand - we took our foot off the gas in the 4th and couldn't finish. However, let's look at the overall game a bit more closely.

First, the game stats. 34:47 possession vs. Marshall's 25:13. 28 first downs vs 20 for Marshall. 454 yards vs. 397. Statistically, our offense dominated. Where we failed was turnovers. 4 for us and 3 for Marshall. And as you well know, 2 of our turnovers resulted in 14 points for them.

We had 48 pass attempts vs 47 runs. The ratio was 39 vs 47 before the disastrous last two drives. We had several really good drivers. 11 play, 75 yard drive after the initial SNAFU. 12 play 72 yard drive to take a 21-17 lead. And most crucially, 15-play 70 yard drive that ended in a FG with 10:14 left. In addition, we had several really nice runs, a 50-yard pass play to the sideline (beautiful throw), a great 26-yard, drive-extending 3rd down catch (when was the last time we had one of those?), a couple of smart RB screens that went quite a bit, and a highlight TD pass where Appleby stiff armed the defender while throwing a TD. These were not plays we have seen the last few years.

Let me ask you two questions:

1. If we execute a decent 2-minute offense at the end of the 4th, do you think everyone would think Shoop and the playcalling sucks?
2. If Appleby doesn't miss the TE on that 15-play drive, do you think we still lose this game?

Look, I think our 2-minute offense really needs to improve A LOT. We missed a great chance at the end of 1st half (Appleby with an inexcusable sack/fumble) and we didn't even get a chance at the end of the game. We had the same problem last year. I think we made several mistakes both individually (Appleby turnovers specifically) and coaching-wise (a few too many 3-and-outs, a few questionable pass plays with 3rd and short, and one really questionable QB draw in long FG range). However, I also think Shoop did a pretty good job for the most part. I enjoyed our offense. I remember thinking "Wow we have receivers now!" a few times. I couldn't say that last year. The RBs ran hard, the OL held up well for the most part. Even Appleby commanded the offense well when he wasn't making game-changing mistakes.

I think if we clean up our individual big mistakes, and if we get a 2-minute offense going, we can be pretty successful with Shoop managing this offense. When I look at this game beyond the score, I liked what I saw for the most part. We're not completely there, but we're not as far as the score indicated IMO.

Thanks for reading!

Deer in the headlights 0-1


Beat ISU!!!


Go Boilers!!!

Toby Miles

 

[JBoiler14]

I agree, honestly for the majority of our first half play calling, and the offense in general was really solid. Second half came, but after the possession that we ran it down their throats until the Jones TD it got bad. We ran on 1st and 2nd down, and consistently passed on third and short. We played conservative, and didn't run what our offense should've been.

 

[spradecki]

i can't defend shoop but i do expect he is led by the HC and is doing what he is told as far as conservative play calling. it's about execution more than bad plays, it's painful to watch the mighty boilers struggle for so long at qb

 

[West James]

Marshall was the favorites on sunday the spread was like 7 or 8.

Hmmm, that explains why I lost so much money in Vegas, the pick six & the stock market. Thanks for the correction. Please tell me we are favored at home against Indiana State

Go Boilers!!!
[found my new bookie!]


Beat ISU!!!


Toby Miles