Is this 2017 team the best that Painter ever had?

[SnowLeopard]

The main competition would be the Baby Boilers and last year's 2016 team.

The Baby Boilers however, had the Hummel injury and we never got to see the full team in the business end of their upperclassman seasons.

The difference between last year and this year would be:

1. Minus Swanigan, Painter's best player to date and a NPOY finalist

2. Plus an extra year of experience for six players who have started in some point of their careers. The combined 278 career starts for the returners is the most ever Painter had, and one of the most in school history. - Vince (92 career starts), PJ (60 career starts), Mathias (57 career starts), Haas (41 career starts), Carsen (21 career starts), Cline (7 career starts).

3. Plus Jacquil Taylor, Nojel Eastern, and the new recruits of which Haarms or Ewing are the most likely contributors

I can understand arguments for either - some will say Swanigan is a generational player who cannot be replaced. I lean towards arguing that the gain in experience and athleticism can make up for the huge hole Swanigan left and we may end up with an even better team.

My expectations are lofty - I see the FLOOR as 2nd in the BIG and Sweet 16.

 

[dumpsterFyre]

I think 2009-2010 or 2016-2017 had the best starting 5. But I definitely think that from top to bottom, this is the best squad Matt has put together.

 

[Mandeville LA]

The main competition would be the Baby Boilers and last year's 2016 team.

The Baby Boilers however, had the Hummel injury and we never got to see the full team in the business end of their upperclassman seasons.

The difference between last year and this year would be:

1. Minus Swanigan, Painter's best player to date and a NPOY finalist

2. Plus an extra year of experience for six players who have started in some point of their careers. The combined 278 career starts for the returners is the most ever Painter had, and one of the most in school history. - Vince (92 career starts), PJ (60 career starts), Mathias (57 career starts), Haas (41 career starts), Carsen (21 career starts), Cline (7 career starts).

3. Plus Jacquil Taylor, Nojel Eastern, and the new recruits of which Haarms or Ewing are the most likely contributors

I can understand arguments for either - some will say Swanigan is a generational player who cannot be replaced. I lean towards arguing that the gain in experience and athleticism can make up for the huge hole Swanigan left and we may end up with an even better team.

My expectations are lofty - I see the FLOOR as 2nd in the BIG and Sweet 16.

For me it is really hard to compare teams. To do it fully you have to look at so may variables. I would say that this years team is at least as good as the Baby Boilers. For me its too early to say if the are better than last years team. Sometimes its hard when you have a star on the team. This years team has a lot of really good basketball players and have the potential to be the best painter has had to date.

 

[northside100]

2009 - 2010 was better on paper heading into the season and it's not even close. Three all conference players in JJ, Robbie and E'Twaun with JJ being a consensus all american plus the defensive player of the year in Chris Kramer.

There's a lot to like about this year's team and I would not be shocked to see them end up being better than last year's squad, but that 2009-2010 team was loaded, it would take a lot to top that squad in my mind.

 

[Do Dah Day]

We'll know more in early March

 

[BoilerDaddy]

I think 2009-2010 or 2016-2017 had the best starting 5. But I definitely think that from top to bottom, this is the best squad Matt has put together.

If you count prior to Hummel's injury, 2009-10 has to be considered the best until another team proves to be better on the court. Last year's team was arguably second. I'm waiting to see whether Purdue can improve this season without Biggie.

 

[FirstDownB]

We'll know more in early March

Or late March

 

[Do Dah Day]

Or late March

OK, I'll bite - how we play in March will not determine how good of a team we are/were. How we play in Jan/Feb will determine that ....

 

[nat100]

2009 - 2010 was better on paper heading into the season and it's not even close. Three all conference players in JJ, Robbie and E'Twaun with JJ being a consensus all american plus the defensive player of the year in Chris Kramer.

There's a lot to like about this year's team and I would not be shocked to see them end up being better than last year's squad, but that 2009-2010 team was loaded, it would take a lot to top that squad in my mind.

People always neglect to mention Grant. Thought he and Kramer set the tone for that team. Both were tough as nails and were very good leaders.

 

[02Boilermaker]

If you count prior to Hummel's injury, 2009-10 has to be considered the best until another team proves to be better on the court.

I'll agree with that. Hummel's injury on that 09-10 team always eclipses the fact LewJack was out for the first 19 games of the season too (after being a B1G All-Frosh guy the year before). From the time LewJack returned through the Minnesota game where Robbie got hurt, that 09-10 team won all 8 of its B1G games including wins over #16 Wisconsin at home and on the road vs #10 MSU and #9 OSU.

 

[punaj]

I think this years team will be better than last. More experience and more athleticism. Hard to replace Caleb, yes, but I think we do it with the two things I mentioned. That said, the baby boiler teams were really good. If Robbie never got hurt... they were ranked 4th in the country at the time. Oh what could have been.

 

[cprh9u]

I don't think they're the best. Deepest maybe, but not sure who is going to take over when it's needed.

Sweet 16 is your floor? You know that has been Painter's ceiling right? Not saying it will never change but that is a pretty lofty floor.

 

[since1980]

The Baby Boilers were headed for a #1 seed prior to Hummels injury, and I don't see that happening with this team. This team is deeper, but that team played really really well together.
This years team will be better than last years team however. As skilled as Swanigan was, I think becoming less one dimensional will be a big positive for this years team.

 

[Wolegib]

something many people always forget to do in their evaluation of a team:

And that is many people always judge/evaluate how good a team is based against the past rather than the competition! People make their predictions about where we will finish based on their comparison of this team against previous Purdue teams. Rather than making a prediction saying how much better we are verses last year's Purdue team, you need to make your comparisons against this year's opposition. How do we stack up against them?

if we are a lot better than our opposition, it doesn't matter how we compare against our past. what matters is NOW.

how do we compare against this year's MSU team? How do we compare against this years IU team etc ? forget last year, how do we compare against this year's UW and Mich teams?

Forget last year's players and victories. how do we compare against this year's Louisville and Villanova and Arizona?

Don't say we're great because you think we're Painter's best team. if we finish 33-0, we will be considered the best regardless of our talent level.

So, are we better than MSU ? are we better than Louisville? ND? Butler?

I'll say MSU is better than Purdue . I'll say Purdue is better than Louisville and Villanova. I'll say Arizona is better than Purdue . if Purdue loses those games and finishes second to MSU, the best it can hope for is a #3 seed. and that would mean a sweet 16 finish regardless of if this is painter's best team talent wise.

Rather than looking back at Purdue's history, and talking about is this Painter's best team, you should be taking a look at our competition and schedule and asking could this be Painter's highest finish?

because ultimately, people don't really care if this is painter's best team, what they really care about is the ending finish / result.

 

[Treed1967]

something many people always forget to do in their evaluation of a team:

And that is many people always judge/evaluate how good a team is based against the past rather than the competition! People make their predictions about where we will finish based on their comparison of this team against previous Purdue teams. Rather than making a prediction saying how much better we are verses last year's Purdue team, you need to make your comparisons against this year's opposition. How do we stack up against them?

if we are a lot better than our opposition, it doesn't matter how we compare against our past. what matters is NOW.

how do we compare against this year's MSU team? How do we compare against this years IU team etc ? forget last year, how do we compare against this year's UW and Mich teams?

Forget last year's players and victories. how do we compare against this year's Louisville and Villanova and Arizona?

Don't say we're great because you think we're Painter's best team. if we finish 33-0, we will be considered the best regardless of our talent level.

So, are we better than MSU ? are we better than Louisville? ND? Butler?

I'll say MSU is better than Purdue . I'll say Purdue is better than Louisville and Villanova. I'll say Arizona is better than Purdue . if Purdue loses those games and finishes second to MSU, the best it can hope for is a #3 seed. and that would mean a sweet 16 finish regardless of if this is painter's best team talent wise.

Rather than looking back at Purdue's history, and talking about is this Painter's best team, you should be taking a look at our competition and schedule and asking could this be Painter's highest finish?

because ultimately, people don't really care if this is painter's best team, what they really care about is the ending finish / result.

Well said bcuz end results is what matters I will say this years team is deep with experience that is why many of those teams that made it past the sweet 16 had just that. Also those teams had really really good guard play and really good shooters that made it to the final 4 so looking at this team this year has the experience plus youth , athleticism, length and some darn good shooters and a much deeper bench that they haven't had in 2 years especially last season. They have all the ingredients that could go further this season than last not taking nothing away what they accomplished last season. This years team won't be predictable most new biggie was getting the ball he was the best player this year teams will have to be aware of the shooters the bigs and guys that can create there on shot and get to the basket. 11 games they have played together built chemistry and all got to learn each other game and with that as season officially starts tomorrow they all especially the freshman has a major advantage coming into the season they will be more ready. So I agree with all what you said but if they put all this together with pieces they have this team will be dangerous b4 big 10 play. Guards win game and they got some good ones.

 

[Boileratthebeach]

Well said bcuz end results is what matters I will say this years team is deep with experience that is why many of those teams that made it past the sweet 16 had just that. Also those teams had really really good guard play and really good shooters that made it to the final 4 so looking at this team this year has the experience plus youth , athleticism, length and some darn good shooters and a much deeper bench that they haven't had in 2 years especially last season. They have all the ingredients that could go further this season than last not taking nothing away what they accomplished last season. This years team won't be predictable most new biggie was getting the ball he was the best player this year teams will have to be aware of the shooters the bigs and guys that can create there on shot and get to the basket. 11 games they have played together built chemistry and all got to learn each other game and with that as season officially starts tomorrow they all especially the freshman has a major advantage coming into the season they will be more ready. So I agree with all what you said but if they put all this together with pieces they have this team will be dangerous b4 big 10 play. Guards win game and they got some good ones.

Very good point about guards. That was the knock on Purdue several years ago. That wasn't an issue last year and certainly won't be an issue this year. In fact that could be our strength. That said, I think this is a better all around team than we have seen in some time. There is no weakness at any of the positions and we are deep all around. Hopefully this is a magical season! Think we have the pieces to make some real noise.

 

[Frankie611]

People always neglect to mention Grant. Thought he and Kramer set the tone for that team. Both were tough as nails and were very good leaders.

Spot on. I loved Grant. I believe he had an ankle injury after his sophomore year and kind of peaked. He saved us with a buzzer beater in THE Hummel game at the barn. Would have that night that much more painful

 

[JohnHoosierr]

Painters had at least 2 better teams, possibly more.

 

[BoilerBabyGirl]

There's no team that had this much. Big play guards, high flying wings, massive rim protectors. Notice how each of those is plural.

 

[Chuchumutha]

The main competition would be the Baby Boilers and last year's 2016 team.

The Baby Boilers however, had the Hummel injury and we never got to see the full team in the business end of their upperclassman seasons.

The difference between last year and this year would be:

1. Minus Swanigan, Painter's best player to date and a NPOY finalist

2. Plus an extra year of experience for six players who have started in some point of their careers. The combined 278 career starts for the returners is the most ever Painter had, and one of the most in school history. - Vince (92 career starts), PJ (60 career starts), Mathias (57 career starts), Haas (41 career starts), Carsen (21 career starts), Cline (7 career starts).

3. Plus Jacquil Taylor, Nojel Eastern, and the new recruits of which Haarms or Ewing are the most likely contributors

I can understand arguments for either - some will say Swanigan is a generational player who cannot be replaced. I lean towards arguing that the gain in experience and athleticism can make up for the huge hole Swanigan left and we may end up with an even better team.

My expectations are lofty - I see the FLOOR as 2nd in the BIG and Sweet 16.

Dude, if that's your floor, you must live in a basement.

 

[SIBoiler2]

There's no team that had this much. Big play guards, high flying wings, massive rim protectors. Notice how each of those is plural.

Yes. The plus for this team is depth. For once we will lose very little when someone comes off the bench.

 

[dumpsterFyre]

Dude, if that's your floor, you must live in a basement.

The ceiling is the roof. --MJ

 

[FLAG HUNTER]

I hope everyone is right, would love to see Purdue have a great season this year, and forever for that matter. But gotta wait and see how team does against top competition and how they finish close games.

 

[MKordIUBB]

Hmm....I don't think you guys should judge the season based not the end result. The tournament is based on both luck and skill. Think of Kansas and Villanova. No matter where they are in skill, lots of times they exit early while there is a no. 11 seeded mid major on their way to a final four. Are those teams bad? Maybe not as good as advertised, but most likely better than most the teams in the round after them.

I think in a game where a number 9 seed in the final four off a miracle run is facing a number 1 seed who is out before the second weekend, I would take the the number one team.

And yes, this Purdue team has the ability to lose early yet also make a deep run.

 

[Treed1967]

I hope everyone is right, would love to see Purdue have a great season this year, and forever for that matter. But gotta wait and see how team does against top competition and how they finish close games.

As a mother of one of the freshman on the team I speak to my son daily and the conversation we have had he is impressed with what he sees in practice so I trust my son word. I believe even against some of the more competitive team they gonna surprise some teams. They got the pieces now they put it all together this team will be scary good by big 10 play and NCAA tournament play. Stay tuned.

 

[Treed1967]

Hmm....I don't think you guys should judge the season based not the end result. The tournament is based on both luck and skill. Think of Kansas and Villanova. No matter where they are in skill, lots of times they exit early while there is a no. 11 seeded mid major on their way to a final four. Are those teams bad? Maybe not as good as advertised, but most likely better than most the teams in the round after them.

I think in a game where a number 9 seed in the final four off a miracle run is facing a number 1 seed who is out before the second weekend, I would take the the number one team.

And yes, this Purdue team has the ability to lose early yet also make a deep run.

They won't loose early I will put money on that not sure how you can base that assumption of your comment. I'm former division 1 player back in my day and I no basketball and this team is gonna be very very good and you will see as well as others will see just how good they gonna be soon enough. I can see elite 8 not afraid to say it bcuz those teams that went on past the sweet 16 to elite 8 final 4 and national championship the guards on those team made the difference in those games and purdue got some really really good guards mixed with athletic guards with skill and size and a tone of shooters and now athletic bigs to match any team out here. So season is around the corner and with a 2 month advantage of practice and playing 11 games under there belt this team is prime to do big things.

 

[snowsquirrel11]

People always neglect to mention Grant. Thought he and Kramer set the tone for that team. Both were tough as nails and were very good leaders.

And people always neglect to mention Lewjack

 

[SnowLeopard]

Painters had at least 2 better teams, possibly more.

Bump

 

[BoilerGal74]

2009 - 2010 was better on paper heading into the season and it's not even close. Three all conference players in JJ, Robbie and E'Twaun with JJ being a consensus all american plus the defensive player of the year in Chris Kramer.

There's a lot to like about this year's team and I would not be shocked to see them end up being better than last year's squad, but that 2009-2010 team was loaded, it would take a lot to top that squad in my mind.

There’s a difference though between having the best players versus best team....I really think as a team this year’ beats any of the others...at least to date...

 

[JohnHoosierr]

Bump

You said a coach that has more final 4s than painter has 16s has passed him the torch lol. At least i don't need to bump your idiotic take since it's right in the first page already.

 

[SnowLeopard]

You said a coach that has more final 4s than painter has 16s has passed him the torch lol. At least i don't need to bump your idiotic take since it's right in the first page already.

Your poor reading comprehension suggests you are likely not a Purdue grad.

Your consistently poor analysis and underestimation of Purdue (current BIG leader AND defending champion) relative to your infatuation with IU and MSU further suggests you are a bandwagoneer whose proper long term place is with the other Walmart Hoosier fans

While you hang out here to grab a piece of Purdue success to brighten up your sad fair-weather life, please show some awareness to the core Purdue fanbase who use these boards

But then again, if you had any awareness, you wouldn't be the idiot that you are

 

[BoilerDaddy]

I’m still going to go with 2009-10 when healthy, but we will never really know what that team would have accomplished if healthy. That said, this year’s team is special and has a real chance to break Purdue’s Final Four drought.

 

[BoiledSteel]

We will know once the tourney is over and if we get to an Elite 8 or higher. We do that then yes, until then it is entirely too early to even speculate.

 

[Fansince72]

Talking to a Michigan person last night, who is very knowledgeable, ask him how good do you think we are. He said we are final 4.Both us and MSU.

 

[Schnelk]

His best team was Kramer, Grant, Moore, Hummell and Johnson plus 6th man LewJack. 2nd best is this years team. Biggie was great but this squad has a more dimensional bench contributing significantly to a mostly 8 man rotation.

 

[SR711]

Its too early to tell right now, but this could be a very special team.

I am really pulling for this squad to be the one that breaks through come NCAA Tourney time and makes a deep run to FF and possibly further. It would be a long time coming for the Boilers program and Coach Painter.

In order for that to happen, I think he needs to continue to develop his younger players to contribute in critical situations.

 

[RDUBoiler]

His best team was Kramer, Grant, Moore, Hummell and Johnson plus 6th man LewJack. 2nd best is this years team. Biggie was great but this squad has a more dimensional bench contributing significantly to a mostly 8 man rotation.

I could see this argument. Kramer may still be the best defensive player in modern Purdue history. Grant would have been a star on just about any other team. This team is also fantastic, and it may ultimately have a better *season,* which isn't quite the same as having a better team due to external factors.

But in the grand scheme of things, I'm going to enjoy this ride for what it is, just like I enjoyed the Baby Boilers and the Brad Miller-era and Brian Cardinal-era teams.

 

[chiboiler7]

Its too early to tell right now, but this could be a very special team.

I am really pulling for this squad to be the one that breaks through come NCAA Tourney time and makes a deep run to FF and possibly further. It would be a long time coming for the Boilers program and Coach Painter.

In order for that to happen, I think he needs to continue to develop his younger players to contribute in critical situations.

That is a great point. We are so starter heavy. Have we seen a game so far this year where one or two of our starters get into deep foul trouble?

 

[SnowLeopard]

Talking to a Michigan person last night, who is very knowledgeable, ask him how good do you think we are. He said we are final 4.Both us and MSU.

The usual comparisons would be

1. Polls and rankings. At our current #5, we are already higher than the highest ranking achieved last year. Not quite the #3 of pre-ACL tear Baby Boilers though.

2. Conference Titles. To be seen.

3. NCAA Tourney progress. To be seen

The benchmark should still be 2010 as that year's Conference Title + #3 + S16 beats last year's Conference Title + #9 + S16

I think if we do better on 2 of the 3 categories, we can declare this year the best team. i.e., #2 + EE

But if we got to the F4 and neither won the conference nor polled higher than #5, most fans would probably still declare this the best year anyway

 

[Fansince72]

But if we got to the F4 and neither won the conference nor polled higher than #5, most fans would probably still declare this the best year anyway

That would be me.