Is Edey Painter’s best college player?
- Thread starter BoilerDaddy
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Hummels himself was in the same HS class as Eric Gordon, Derrick Rose, Kevin Love, James Harden, OJ Mayo, Michael Beasley, Blake Griffin and there isn't anyone in college right now that's legitimately better than any of those dudes were.
Tyler Hansbrough and Steph Curry were also still in college during Hummels freshman year.
But the time Hummel hit his peak his Junior year, you had a superstar freshman in John Wall, and there isn't a player on his level this year. Evan Turner was POY that season and there aren't any dudes as good as he was this year.
If you just want to look at the Big Ten as a whole, the Big Ten really seemed to peak in overall talent in the late 2000s/early 2010s.
Hummel played during the 11-12 season where the Big Ten had stars in Draymond Green and Jared Sullinger and there aren't dudes like that in the league this year. There isn't a freshman close to the level of Cody Zeller or Trey Burke either. Hummel played in a pretty damned good Big Ten his Junior and Senior years.
You're arguing a guy who averaged 16 and 7 in his best year is better than a guy who is averaging 22.5 and 14 😂
Go ahead, tweet at Hummel and ask him his opinion.
Your argument is impossible to make. We don't know how good the guys playing college now are going to turn out to be. They could end up being better than all the guys you named. We won't know for another 6 or 7 years at least.. When most of those guys were in college they were just the current college stars. same as today's college stars..
Not sure if already mentioned, but Edey could close this debate if he ends up NPOY as he is currently leading most voters' lists.
100% agree. Another poster tried to make the same argument.
Take a look at the NPOY Jimmer fredette??? With the exception of Durant, none lit up the NBA.
Make Hummel 7-4.. he'd be heading to the HOF. Purdue fans may not like it, but Edey is as dominant as he is because he's 7-4. He has some skill but I don't think he was as skilled as Hummel was at his peak.
That has literally nothing to do with their collegiate career.
This is an awful argument, and arguably your worst one so far. Do you think Shaq isn't that good because he's 7'1"? You don't get to discount a players ability and production because of their physical gifts.
Stick to critiquing IU players, your knowledge of Purdue players just isn't there.
Leading Purdue to a Final Four would do it for me.
Do you really think like this? Make Allen Iverson 7’4” 300 lbs and he’d be unstoppable?
What makes great big men great is the agility and dexterity they have for being that big. If Hummel was 7’4” he wouldn’t be the same agile player that you watched at 6’8”, it’s basic kinosiology.
There are 100’s of 7 footers playing basketball at the amateur level right now. You’ll never hear of them because they don’t have the agility and skill that separates the greats from the also rans. They are BIG though, which you equate the the majority of Edey’s dominance to which is woefully misguided to put it politely.
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Yea, Shaq was literally the player he was because he was 7-1 and 300 pounds on top of his athleticism and strength. I never said Edey wasn't good. But I think Hummel had more raw talent than Edey.
Arguing talent level of two completely different types of players is kind of pointless, in my opinion, unless you are talking about NBA draft potential.
This thread is about impact. Does Edey have a greater impact on the college game than Hummel? I loved Hummel’s game as he made everyone around him better, but I think Edey is the more impactful college player.
Well Edey is definitely more impactful but why is he so impactful? It's beyond clear is size is the biggest reason. In college that kind of size can do a lot. Hard to deal with when most centers in college are 6-8 to 6-10. Giving up 6-8 inches changes a lot. It's not saying Edey isn't good or isn't talented and skilled, but his size alone changes games. There is no denying that. Hummel unfortunately couldn't stay healthy. Moore, Hummel and Johnson are easily Top 10 in Painters Purdue era and were all on the same team. Health could have made that team pretty special.
It really depends on how one defines "best" but it would be hard to argue that Zach isn't "the best" talent under Painter given that Zach is in the running for National Player of the Year. None of the other listed players made it to that level of national attention.
That is NOT to say the other listed players are not more talented and will not be better NBA talent.
That is NOT to say the other listed players are not more talented and will not be better NBA talent.
Your point is inane. And if I wanted to play your game of reducing players physical attributes, I'd point out that if Hummel was 6'1" instead of 6'8" he wouldn't have been the player he was either. Regardless, I'm done debating with you. If you think Hummel was more impactful than Edey (despite all metrics and accolades saying otherwise), then you're free to have that opinion. Regardless, you're not going to change my mind given that all logic says Edey is the most impactful player Painter has had since Landry.
Edey is in the running for player of the year partly because this has been a very bad year of college basketball talent! Just because he may be the best of a very bad year doesn’t mean he was the best player Painter recruited.
And don’t compare college with the NBA. Some players’s game is better matched for the NBA and some players game is better suited for college!
As for final 4, is Edey better than Joe Barry Carrol?
As was said before, Edey is a great player and is having an awesome year. But you shouldn’t try to use stats as the only factor.
Look at Quin Buckner and then look at his stats. Name one Purdue player who was a better point guard than Quinn. There will be many with better stats, but no one better.
Look at Scotty May and Kent Benson! I’m confident those of you who love stats will Find 20 million better players. Was Walter Jordan better than Scotty May? Was Joe barry better than Kent?
Because a player generates better stats does that mean he is the better player? And if he generates those stats against far inferior talent and becomes the greatest of a very mediocre bunch, does that mean he is the GOAT? How great would Labron be if he had to play the same players magic, bird, MJ and Kareem played against? Would Labron beat out Malone or Bird for first team at PF?
Rather than saying Edey is the GOAT and trying to compare him to the past, why not sit back and what he offers!
As for his NBA career, it’s a totally different game. Will he be successful? Many tall and slow centers have not. Yao Ming was probably the last tall and slow center to be successful in the NBA. What’s Haas doing lately?
And don’t compare college with the NBA. Some players’s game is better matched for the NBA and some players game is better suited for college!
As for final 4, is Edey better than Joe Barry Carrol?
As was said before, Edey is a great player and is having an awesome year. But you shouldn’t try to use stats as the only factor.
Look at Quin Buckner and then look at his stats. Name one Purdue player who was a better point guard than Quinn. There will be many with better stats, but no one better.
Look at Scotty May and Kent Benson! I’m confident those of you who love stats will Find 20 million better players. Was Walter Jordan better than Scotty May? Was Joe barry better than Kent?
Because a player generates better stats does that mean he is the better player? And if he generates those stats against far inferior talent and becomes the greatest of a very mediocre bunch, does that mean he is the GOAT? How great would Labron be if he had to play the same players magic, bird, MJ and Kareem played against? Would Labron beat out Malone or Bird for first team at PF?
Rather than saying Edey is the GOAT and trying to compare him to the past, why not sit back and what he offers!
As for his NBA career, it’s a totally different game. Will he be successful? Many tall and slow centers have not. Yao Ming was probably the last tall and slow center to be successful in the NBA. What’s Haas doing lately?
I never said Hummel was more impactful. I said Hummel was more talented.
The question was is Edey painter’s best college player? I believe in answering the question you need to throw out all nba related success as the question asked about college players.
There is also a subjective difference in the meaning of most talented versus most successful.
And is the level of competition a consideration? It’s quite clear that today’s players are no where close to the level of talent that played in college 10-20 years ago!
There is also a subjective difference in the meaning of most talented versus most successful.
And is the level of competition a consideration? It’s quite clear that today’s players are no where close to the level of talent that played in college 10-20 years ago!
Of course, height is a big part of what makes Edey the dominant player that he is. Nobody would argue that he would be better than Hummel was if he was 6’8”. Make Braden Smith or Carsen Edwards 6’8”, on the other hand…
We'll see how it plays out but if Purdue can stay in the top 5 the remainder of the year, I don't see how Edey can't be considered Painter's top college player. I don't know that anyone else on our roster would be considered a lock as a starter on most upper division B1G teams and yet here we are. By that matrix C Edwards would be a close second.
Many people call mj the goat! What they fail to include in their praise was the reality of nba basketball when he played in it. Mj was 6’6. And for the majority of his nba career he played shooting guard and not small forward. At the time he played, the majority of shooting guards were 6’1-6’3. This afforded him a tremendous defensive mismatch allowing him to easily shoot over his would be defenders.
This also led the nba to wanting taller guards!
If you like, look back at the archives and look to see Jordan’s best games and then look at the height of the opposing team’s defenders. It’s a lot easier to make an outside shot or drive to the basket when you have a 3-5 inch advantage.
This also led the nba to wanting taller guards!
If you like, look back at the archives and look to see Jordan’s best games and then look at the height of the opposing team’s defenders. It’s a lot easier to make an outside shot or drive to the basket when you have a 3-5 inch advantage.
The same applied to Dr J. Many called him a forward but in reality he played like a sg
Yep. Rutgers had no shot when Edwards was running the show
Other than your facts being wrong.......
Penny Hardaway, John Starks, Clyde Drexler, Craig Ehlo, Reggie Miller, Reggie Lewis Danny Ainge, Gerald Wilkins and Ron Harper were all 6' 5" plus and that took me five minutes to come up with that list. Byron Scott and Joe Dumars were 6'4". Jordan was also often guarded by athletic small forwards like Byron Russell and Dennis Rodman.
Now name me a few guys that were 6'1 to 6'3" who were guarding Michael Jordan.
Mj played against more than 5 teams! I said to look for his great games and to see who was guarding him! The fact that Rodman was assigned to guard mj kind of proves my point that mj torched their sg that was previously assigned to guard him.
And the players you named were players in mj’s later years. Mj ‘s success against smaller guards led to other teams starting to play taller players at sg! A lot of players who were small forwards in college became sg in the nba! MJ changed the game of the shooting guard!
You could have said Oscar Robertson, magic Johnson, jerry west, haveleck, Pierce, Rick Barry and pistol Pete were also big guards. And my point would be, look at their success as well. The smaller guards in the league could not defend them. The size difference created mis matches and they took advantage of it.
Part of my point was if MJ played small forward instead of shooting guard, he would not have been as successful as he was. A great majority of his success came against much smaller guards. And the same could be said about other tall guards.
It’s kind of obvious to try to defend MJ, teams had to adjust their defense because their starting guards could not defend against him because of their height!
Look at today’s NBA! Nobody wants a short SG!
The latest predicted NBA draft list does not have Zach in the top 30. I have no opinion - just the facts
This is absurd. MJ would torch most small forwards. Joe Dumars was widely considered the best defender against Jordan at 6’3”, partly because nobody MJ’s height could stay in front of him. Detroit was famous for implementing the “Jordan rules” which was an entire defensive scheme designed to contain Jordan, but Jordan still averaged over 31 ppg against Dumars and eventually broke through to beat the Pistons on the way to their first of 6 championships.
Gary Payton was nicknamed the glove, but Jordan dominated him. Sydney Moncrief was widely considered one of the best defenders in the league when Jordan was a rookie, but quickly called Jordan unguardable.
You can debate whether Lebron is better than MJ if you want (though I would go with MJ), but to argue that MJ would struggle to score against today’s guards is pretty ridiculous.
I’ve seen him around 45. It will be tough for him to defend the pick n roll at the NBA level, but I have to think that he will get his shot.
Zach is a hard one to project. I'm not sure you can compare him to anyone in today's NBA, so that would give me pause when considering drafting him.
I'm not sure Zach is dominant enough to be the focal point of an NBA offense. If he's not the focal point of the offense (feeding the low post), I don't see him having much of an impact in the NBA.
I'm not sure Zach is dominant enough to be the focal point of an NBA offense. If he's not the focal point of the offense (feeding the low post), I don't see him having much of an impact in the NBA.
Caleb Swanigan had a ton of national attention. I think he finished behind Frank Mason for player of the year.
I watched the Pacers and Raptors last night. I saw plenty of "feeding the post" type play to justify the player Zach has become. The post was being feed by the other players, same as Purdue is doing with Zach. Right down to the left block and let the right handed center go to work, trying to get the angle for his little hook shot. But Zach can not play that position in the NBA right now. He needs to more build strength and ball handling skills that will get him into the move to score. Better footwork under pressure wouldn't hurt either as that will help his maneuverability and quickness. Just my take on watching for a quarter.
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