Independent autopsy prelim results

[gr8indoorsman]

Re: there are plenty of good cops

Originally posted by hunkgolden:

Originally posted by gr8indoorsman:
There are plenty of good cops, and then there's that asshat who was pointing his assault rifle at bystanders (including one who was taking video...) two nights ago, and said "I'll f********* kill you." What an idiot, hopefully he never wears a badge again. (STL police suspended him.)

MSNBC reported this morning that there was a someone in the crowd near the guy with the camerphone that pulled out what was believed to be a handgun and was pointing it at the police. That is why the guy raised his rifle. The handgun later turned out to be a bb gun.

Please provide a link if you can. I can't find that anywhere.

 

[threeeputtt]

Re: look at the grouping

Originally posted by qazplm:
of the shots. no I highly doubt his arms were extended outward like he was getting ready to make a tackle from 30 feet away.

And no marijuana is not something that leads to violence except a very narrow subset of people. And the report doesn't say he was "high" it says he had marijuana in his system, which as we all know, it can take 30 days or more for marijuana to leave your system since it collects in fat cells.

The military will teach you that you CAN NOT react fast enough at 21 feet to stop an assailant with a knife before you are likely dead. Add what appears to be a an eye injury clouding the issue of response time. I am willing to let the GJ do its work and should it be a true bill let a jury decide and accept it, or no bill that is OK also. None of us have all of the "facts".
This post was edited on 8/26 11:50 AM by threeeputtt

 

[hunkgolden]

Re: there are plenty of good cops


Jimenez said Albers drew his gun after seeing what may have been a BB gun in the crowd. The officer asked a member of the media to move, he said. "The media person refused to cooperate, and in an attempt to keep the public safe, my officer used profanity with the public and told the media person that he was going to kill him if he didn't move," Jimenez said in an email. "We certainly do not condone the verbiage that was used and the officer will be counseled on his choice of words. The St. Ann Police Department regrets this unfortunate situation and hopes for a peaceful resolution in Ferguson. "

Link to Story

 

[atmafola]

Re: Well

Originally posted by gr8indoorsman:

Originally posted by qazplm:
he wasn't shot in the back, but he was shot at while running away. Then he turned, then he was shot again. Having said that one of the things the medical examiner said was possible was that one or two of the shots in the arm could have been while he was turned away.

I feel fairly confident that multiple witnesses saying he was shooting at him, then he turned around are legit. There's this thing floating around about "12 witnesses who support the cops version of events" even though not one has come forward yet or the audio that purports to have someone say they saw him charge (but says absolutely nothing like that and it's barely clear what the folks in the audio are even talking about since they seem to think personal pronouns and identifiers are just suggestions).

I think the pattern of shots, and the location strongly suggest arms raised. I think the distance from the car suggest the cop wasn't in imminent physical danger. I think it unlikely he would run that distance, then for no apparent reason, turn around and start charging an armed cop. You know if the kid were on PCP or cocaine or something like that, maybe...marijuana, no. Kid has no arrest history that I'm aware of, which let's be honest, is pretty surprising given the neighborhood and the obviously poor relationship with the cops, and while clearly a thief, his confrontation in the store was a push, that's it. Nothing to suggest a wild, crazed aggressive guy.

I disagree with you that the police are slow to put out evidence favorable. On the contrary, I think they released the evidence about marijuana (leaked actually) as soon as the results came in. I think they released the store video as soon as they got it. I think they are releasing things as soon as they can that help. I agree with you that there isn't more is likely because there isn't more.

What I'm concerned about is:

1. The police car was not remotely treated like evidence
2. DNA/fingerprint testing of the gun supposedly fought over
3. Ballistics testing of the car, the area outside where the car was
4. How far was the shooting from the car?
5. How far was the officer from Brown when he shot?
6. A little digging shows that the PD there up until recently filed disciplinary reports locally (i.e. they had a very lax system) would like to see the history of this officer. Does he file a lot of "resisting arrest" charges?
7. Did they test the cop's blood to see if he was on anything? (of course they didn't).
8. Did they take pics of the cops face? Browns hands? If he supposedly punched the cop in the face, one of those should have some evidential value.

I'm more to open to the idea that there is a universe of facts that justifies or excuses this shooting. IF the kid was grabbing the gun and gets shot in the car? Justified. If the kid attacks the officer, and the officer fires, justified. Six times might not be, but it's excused in that case. But unless the evidence swings wildly in the other direction...

You keep saying a few things as if they are facts: specifically, he was shot while running away. That's one story. It's not been confirmed. The link I gave yesterday gave another side which said Brown was shot while running towards Wilson. I agree that he might have been running away at some point, but for who knows what reason may have turned around - perhaps because he was being shot at, perhaps not.

I also find it unlikely that a somewhat experienced police officer without a history would all of a sudden go shooting someone in the back as they run away without cause. I find that more unlikely than I find someone who had just committed a crime (he probably didn't know that the police didn't know) and had drugs "in his system" (whatever that means) being completely innocent of any wrongdoing in this situation.

As I've repeatedly said, the truth is likely somewhere in the middle. Wilson thought he was in danger, but probably wasn't in "open fire" danger; Brown was probably doing something wrong and/or illegal, up to and including resisting arrest (and maybe doing so under the influence), but likely nothing which deserved being shot, certainly not killed. And that's going to be the overarching point. I don't think it'll be a "murder" situation, but likely whatever the police equivalent of "manslaughter" is, along with the wrongful death civil suit.

To be clear, based on everything I've heard, read, and watched about this, I find it unlikely that Wilson will be (or should be) fully exonerated.

I am quite certain that the formal investigaton was likely not handled properly right off the bat. In chaotic situations like that, it'd be hard to expect that considering the first "authority" on the scene was also involved in the shooting. There will be questions about anything the police put out. Frankly, I'm glad the Feds are getting involved with the investigation because there needs to be an independent investigation here. No one is going to trust what local authorities say, and rightly so for a lot of reasons, IMO.

Do you believe the part in bold now that 2 more witnesses have come out and pretty much said the same thing. There are now 6 witnesses that say something along the line of Brown was being shot at from the back while running away. Some of them say he might have been hit (of course given they were not exactly there to examine Brown, they can't say that with certainty). From their vantage point, it isn't unreasonable for them to think Brown was hit since they said Brown stopped. Turned around, and raised his hands up.