In State Recruits

[FirstDownB]

Let me preface this by saying this is not a knock on any of the recent commitments..

But I can't help but wonder what is in the water in Indiana that 50% of the top 100 recruits since 2010 have chosen to leave the state. There was a time when that would have been inconceivable. You can say that times have changed, but in places like Texas and Ohio they still pretty much lock down the borders, especially in football which is king in those states as basketball is in Indiana. I'm not even asking how we are not beating IU head-to-head for recruits. They are having the same issue with pulling in state talent. Both getting beat out by KY, UM, MSU, OSU, Illinois, Xavier, and even Virginia. I'd almost feel better if these guys were going to IU or Notre Dame.

Is it too much vitriol between the in state fan bases that some kids simply choose to escape? I can't help but wonder how negative recruiting feeds into that thought process. Or is that we just happen to be surrounded by extremely successful coaches in neighboring states?

Please don't turn this into a Painter bashing thread. As I stated the other in state schools are having similar results. Here are the top 100 in state recruits since 2010 by school: Purdue (6), Indiana (5), Butler (2), Notre Dame (2), Others (15).

 

[Do Dah Day]

Indiana produces great basketball players ... the blue chip college basketball programs are not in Indiana. No need to make it more complex than that.

 

[TC4THREE]

You can say that times have changed, but in places like Texas and Ohio they still pretty much lock down the borders, especially in football which is king in those states as basketball is in Indiana.

Are there statistics to support that? I would guess that recruiting is more national now than it has ever been and that applies to most sports. The world is such a smaller place now than it was 20 years ago.

If Ohio State is locking down Ohio, I would guess that's because Meyer has turned them into a juggernaut. Texas used to be a major player on the national scene and probably had their pick of in-state kids and that's probably changed some but kids there can still go to A&M, Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, or Houston too so I'm guessing those schools have always recruited Texas primarily and always will. I'd still be surprised if they aren't losing a few more to national powers than they used to.

 

[Do Dah Day]

Are there statistics to support that? I would guess that recruiting is more national now than it has ever been and that applies to most sports. The world is such a smaller place now than it was 20 years ago.

If Ohio State is locking down Ohio, I would guess that's because Meyer has turned them into a juggernaut. Texas used to be a major player on the national scene and probably had their pick of in-state kids and that's probably changed some but kids there can still go to A&M, Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, or Houston too so I'm guessing those schools have always recruited Texas primarily and always will. I'd still be surprised if they aren't losing a few more to national powers than they used to.

With ZERO research into this, overall, it seems to me, that IN has produced more great players than OH or TX. With some really good ones from here going to OSU and X especially. With that in mind, the comparison doesn't validate. If lesser players stay in-state, so what ... the discussion is about losing great players.

 

[TC4THREE]

With ZERO research into this, overall, it seems to me, that IN has produced more great players than OH or TX. With some really good ones from here going to OSU and X especially. With that in mind, the comparison doesn't validate. If lesser players stay in-state, so what ... the discussion is about losing great players.

But he was talking about football recruiting for Ohio and Texas compared to basketball in Indiana.

 

[Do Dah Day]

But he was talking about football recruiting for Ohio and Texas compared to basketball in Indiana.

OH ... well hell ... I stand by my thoughts ... but the thought process needs refined.

I still think that the great players are heavily recruited and WANT to go to the blue-ships (duh) and we just don't have those programs to offer them at this point in time. The lesser players don't get the recruiting, nor do they think they will fit in the blue-chips; therefiore, they stay in-state. We have had some great players the past few years ... thus skewing the stats a bit.

 

[TC4THREE]

OH ... well hell ... I stand by my thoughts ... but the thought process needs refined.

I still think that the great players are heavily recruited and WANT to go to the blue-ships (duh) and we just don't have those programs to offer them at this point in time. The lesser players don't get the recruiting, nor do they think they will fit in the blue-chips; therefiore, they stay in-state. We have had some great players the past few years ... thus skewing the stats a bit.

I think we're on the same page. The difference being that Ohio State can lock down their borders right now because they are a football blue blood and they're playing like it as well. Texas used to be that way in football but they've fallen in recent years. That's why I'd be surprised if a few more Texas kids aren't slipping out to other national powers right now.

 

[FirstDownB]

Just to reframe the conversation, the recruits I am talking about (top 100) aren't just the great one but all the four stars too. These guys are leaving to play at Michigan, Illinois, Xavier, etc.

 

[arcb102000]

TV and cable has changed the landscape. Games from all over are televised, so it is less important to stay local. Also, travel costs have declined, so your parents find it more affordable to come see you play. Good players can go wherever they like easily.

Coach, team and prestige matter more these days than local ties.

 

[FirstDownB]

Ok. Ohio was a horrible example. Their four stars passed over by OSU all go out of state.
In the 2016 football top 250, 19 of the 35 Texas kids stayed in state. So, majority but not by much. The ones who went out of state went mostly to powerhouse programs. I'm guessing Florida would be similar to Texas.

I get the 'small world' phenomenon. I've just conceded that was enough sway the blue chips, but all things being even a kid would stay close to home to play ball. Lost in losing these guys to out of state is the fact that our in state rivals, one of which a self proclaimed blue blood, are experiencing the same thing.

 

[FirstDownB]

One more thought.. It is almost undeniable that kids today are growing up watching more NBA and less NCAA hoops. Indiana boys aren't deciding whether to bleed Crimson or Gold. They are bleeding whatever color the team is Lebron plays for.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Let me preface this by saying this is not a knock on any of the recent commitments..

But I can't help but wonder what is in the water in Indiana that 50% of the top 100 recruits since 2010 have chosen to leave the state. There was a time when that would have been inconceivable. You can say that times have changed, but in places like Texas and Ohio they still pretty much lock down the borders, especially in football which is king in those states as basketball is in Indiana. I'm not even asking how we are not beating IU head-to-head for recruits. They are having the same issue with pulling in state talent. Both getting beat out by KY, UM, MSU, OSU, Illinois, Xavier, and even Virginia. I'd almost feel better if these guys were going to IU or Notre Dame.

Is it too much vitriol between the in state fan bases that some kids simply choose to escape? I can't help but wonder how negative recruiting feeds into that thought process. Or is that we just happen to be surrounded by extremely successful coaches in neighboring states?

Please don't turn this into a Painter bashing thread. As I stated the other in state schools are having similar results. Here are the top 100 in state recruits since 2010 by school: Purdue (6), Indiana (5), Butler (2), Notre Dame (2), Others (15).

Morgan Burke and Kelvin Sampson.

 

[BoilerInChiTown]

Morgan Burke and Kelvin Sampson.

I would replace these names with one major reason: No real NCAA successes (FF & NC) in recent memories. Kids nowadays have short memories. Great players want to be in great programs.

 

[proudopete]

Kids nowadays probably have short memories because they are kids.

 

[Boilerkid18]

Kids nowadays probably have short memories because they are kids.

Simply not true

 

[Dryfly88]

Simply not true

Well, to be fair, a 17 year old kid can only have so much "memory". They are after all only 17.

 

[proudopete]

So tell me what you remember about 1994?

 

[BoilerInChiTown]

So tell me what you remember about 1994?

That's was little more than 17 years ago...But I think I remembered Big Dog dropping 30pts almost every game and took us to the Elite 8 and was beaten by Duke.

 

[proudopete]

That's was little more than 17 years ago...But I think I remembered Big Dog dropping 30pts almost every game and took us to the Elite 8 and was beaten by Duke.

I was replying to the kid saying it want true. I posted a minute before the 17 comment, so I am not sure how it got above my post.
My point is kids that don't have a long memory because, well they haven't been alive very long.
Yes 1994 was a good year, well up until the last game.

 

[dwhitebash11]

Let me preface this by saying this is not a knock on any of the recent commitments..

But I can't help but wonder what is in the water in Indiana that 50% of the top 100 recruits since 2010 have chosen to leave the state. There was a time when that would have been inconceivable. You can say that times have changed, but in places like Texas and Ohio they still pretty much lock down the borders, especially in football which is king in those states as basketball is in Indiana. I'm not even asking how we are not beating IU head-to-head for recruits. They are having the same issue with pulling in state talent. Both getting beat out by KY, UM, MSU, OSU, Illinois, Xavier, and even Virginia. I'd almost feel better if these guys were going to IU or Notre Dame.

Is it too much vitriol between the in state fan bases that some kids simply choose to escape? I can't help but wonder how negative recruiting feeds into that thought process. Or is that we just happen to be surrounded by extremely successful coaches in neighboring states?

Please don't turn this into a Painter bashing thread. As I stated the other in state schools are having similar results. Here are the top 100 in state recruits since 2010 by school: Purdue (6), Indiana (5), Butler (2), Notre Dame (2), Others (15).

I mentioned this in a post about a month ago and I "concur", as the lady in the verizon or sprint or att, whatever the hell cell phone company it was, said. I think a lot of it is due to social media, and the fact that the local organizations aren't viewed as highly as they used to be. I, for one, still try to contribute to my local communities, as it will help out my local brother/sisters living by me, which in turn helps me out, as long as the majority thinks that way. But the younger generation ( and I'm not necessarily saying there's nothing wrong with it, but I am at the same time?????) seem to go for the glamour and popularity more-so now than ever. I understand you have to do whats best for you, but at the same time, what's best for you is usually whats best for the community you live in.


Did I go way out into left field on that one? It may be me, or the Sam Adams Octoberfest, or the rum, I'm not sure, but both went down really well, and I still concur.

 

[jadeezra]

Internet , aau, Twitter a lot of everything. They can communicate between each other much better nowadays and aren't as uncomfortable leaving the state. Is what it is that was a different time at this point

 

[FirstDownB]

In hindsight the 2017 class obviously wasn't as much ours for the taking as some of us would have liked to believe. Much of that hype was based on the large concentration of local talent. But now unless they grow up in a Purdue family the locality seems to be a complete non factor. Just amazing how fast that has turned since 2007.

 

[Boilerkid18]

I was replying to the kid saying it want true. I posted a minute before the 17 comment, so I am not sure how it got above my post.
My point is kids that don't have a long memory because, well they haven't been alive very long.
Yes 1994 was a good year, well up until the last game.

Not a long memory, doesn't mean we can't have a good memory. A lot of kids are sharper than their adult counterparts.

 

[Boilerkid18]

So tell me what you remember about 1994?

I could tell you a lot about 1994... It's called knowing previous history.. That's like me asking you what happened in 1837, neither of us lived during that time, yet we both have equal access and opportunity to recall what happened.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Let me preface this by saying this is not a knock on any of the recent commitments..

But I can't help but wonder what is in the water in Indiana that 50% of the top 100 recruits since 2010 have chosen to leave the state. There was a time when that would have been inconceivable. You can say that times have changed, but in places like Texas and Ohio they still pretty much lock down the borders, especially in football which is king in those states as basketball is in Indiana. I'm not even asking how we are not beating IU head-to-head for recruits. They are having the same issue with pulling in state talent. Both getting beat out by KY, UM, MSU, OSU, Illinois, Xavier, and even Virginia. I'd almost feel better if these guys were going to IU or Notre Dame.

Is it too much vitriol between the in state fan bases that some kids simply choose to escape? I can't help but wonder how negative recruiting feeds into that thought process. Or is that we just happen to be surrounded by extremely successful coaches in neighboring states?

Please don't turn this into a Painter bashing thread. As I stated the other in state schools are having similar results. Here are the top 100 in state recruits since 2010 by school: Purdue (6), Indiana (5), Butler (2), Notre Dame (2), Others (15).

The rise of online social media...the answer is that easy. A coach can now reach or have the ability to reach a player at pretty much any time. That player is also hyper-aware of the landscape of college basketball more so now than ever before. Plus, leaving home isn't as scary as before because of things like FaceTime and Skype.

 

[nagemj02]

To the OP, outside of the Butler/Brad Stevens phenomenon in 2010/2011, no college hoops program from Indiana has made it to a Final Four or further since IU in 2002. Before that, it was IU in 1987, so that's probably a big reason why there's not as much in-state talent staying in state, plus they know that Stevens isn't at Butler anymore and that Crean is at IU. Also, they probably don't even know that Purdue and Notre Dame have made it to Final Fours in the past because it's been 36 (1980) and 38 (1978) years respectively for each program. Notre Dame has at least knocked on the door in each of the past two seasons, so that's probably fresh in the minds of some of the talented Indiana HS hoopers.

 

[FirstDownB]

Follow-up question: Would IU returning to 1980's status (some day post-Crean) be good or bad for Purdue recruiting? Or does it make any difference?

Pro: would bring more attention back to the Purdue/IU rivalry
Con: would be more difficult to recruit against them head-to-head

My hypothesis is that it would have negligible effect on Purdue's in-state recruiting, but overall it would help regional and national recruiting due to the media attention of the rivalry, which would benefit both sides, as long as we also have a strong program.
A strong Butler or Notre Dame wouldn't help as they are not rivals nor in conference.
Obviously the biggest thing is Purdue doing its part, and I'm not going to bring myself to root for IU just for some theoretical benefit. But it wouldn't be all bad if they did.

 

[mathboy]

How many of you listen/watch your local news channels? I would guess most of us watch CNN/FOX/MSN, or at least the national versions of the ABC/NBC/CBS, right? You don't hear "Our Boilermakers" or "our Hoosiers" anymore. No, you hear "The number 1 UK Wildcats" or " #2 Kansas...".

The national media focuses on the top 20 teams, and not the local teams. After a while people lose their sense of local allegiance that way. It's gone. We need to stop thinking in-state kids have any in-state loyalty.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

The biggest difference between FB and BB recruiting is basketball is driven by AAU now and AAU knows no borders. Football is still driven by HS and of course Texas coaches will be tight long term relationships with the powerful HS programs in the state. The ties to home are much stronger in FB IMO.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

I think it's as simple as Purdue and iu aren't doing anything in the tourney. If you were 18 you would have grown up watching Purdue and iu at some of their lowest points, finishing last in the conference and not making the tourney. What would draw you there as a blue chip unless your parents happened to go there? When I was growing up Purdue and iu fought it out for the conference title almost every year and if your team wasn't part of the fight it was almost shameful.

 

[BoilerInChiTown]

Follow-up question: Would IU returning to 1980's status (some day post-Crean) be good or bad for Purdue recruiting? Or does it make any difference?

Pro: would bring more attention back to the Purdue/IU rivalry
Con: would be more difficult to recruit against them head-to-head

My hypothesis is that it would have negligible effect on Purdue's in-state recruiting, but overall it would help regional and national recruiting due to the media attention of the rivalry, which would benefit both sides, as long as we also have a strong program.
A strong Butler or Notre Dame wouldn't help as they are not rivals nor in conference.
Obviously the biggest thing is Purdue doing its part, and I'm not going to bring myself to root for IU just for some theoretical benefit. But it wouldn't be all bad if they did.

More IU successes in the NCAA tournament will be totally bad for PU unless we do the same. More successes mean better recruits as there shouldn't be any doubts on this correlation. We simply can not afford anther flop in the tournament, otherwise there won't be any rivalry, as they will be kicking our tails left and right with consistently better recruiting.

 

[Dryfly88]

The biggest difference between FB and BB recruiting is basketball is driven by AAU now and AAU knows no borders. Football is still driven by HS and of course Texas coaches will be tight long term relationships with the powerful HS programs in the state. The ties to home are much stronger in FB IMO.

Excellent point. AAU has changed a lot for basketball recruiting.

 

[FirstDownB]

More IU successes in the NCAA tournament will be totally bad for PU unless we do the same. More successes mean better recruits as there shouldn't be any doubts on this correlation. We simply can not afford anther flop in the tournament, otherwise there won't be any rivalry, as they will be kicking our tails left and right with consistently better recruiting.

What difference is it if some of the talent that is currently leaving the state goes to IU instead? If there is nothing special about state borders, isn't it just as likely we grab some 4/5-star from Delaware or Texas in 2028 who grew up watching IU/Purdue on TV than it is we lose out on a 4/5-star from Indy to IU? And yes, Purdue doing its part was listed as an assumption and primary contributor to recruiting.

 

[BoilerInChiTown]

What difference is it if some of the talent that is currently leaving the state goes to IU instead? If there is nothing special about state borders, isn't it just as likely we grab some 4/5-star from Delaware or Texas in 2028 who grew up watching IU/Purdue on TV than it is we lose out on a 4/5-star from Indy to IU? And yes, Purdue doing its part was listed as an assumption and primary contributor to recruiting.

Your follow-up question was what will happen if IU get back to their 1980's status (FF & NC days) and how it will affect PU recruiting. I'm saying it will be totally bad for PU if we do not do the same. We are holding up in in state recruiting because IU haven't done much lately in the NCAA tournament. They are slightly ahead of us in out of state recruiting (maybe due to their 1980 successes). If they are suddenly making back to the FF & NC games and we are not doing the same, they will be out recruiting us in and out of the state of Indiana, and kicking out butts left and right. Period.

 

[cgnops]

I wonder how the distance from home town to college location for student-athletes correlates to that for non-athlete students.

Generally, the most highly achieving students (academically) end up moving significant distances to attend university, while average achievers tend to stay closer to home. Of course, the best students get to pick from the best universities and no one is surprised when valedictorians pick an Ivy or MIT or CalTech. Those sorts of educations are seen as a guarantee of professional success to come.

I think that the best help for attracting the top recruits here is to see Purdue putting players in the draft as often as possible, getting drafted as highly as possible, and succeeding in the NBA. The best publicity for our program will be cultivating a game or work ethic which translates to success in the NBA.

Forget all the tourney success, being in the HOF etc., I imagine this is how Izzo recruits right now: Izzo takes a picture of a chubby, freshman forward nicknamed the "dancing bear," then gets him (Draymond Green) on the phone to say "Izzo made me what I am, if it werent for Izzo, I dont think I would be here."

All that said, looks like ETwaun has a shot at major minutes this year and Hammons will get some play as well, hopefully they turn some heads.

 

[FirstDownB]

Your follow-up question was what will happen if IU get back to their 1980's status (FF & NC days) and how it will affect PU recruiting. I'm saying it will be totally bad for PU if we do not do the same. We are holding up in in state recruiting because IU haven't done much lately in the NCAA tournament. They are slightly ahead of us in out of state recruiting (maybe due to their 1980 successes). If they are suddenly making back to the FF & NC games and we are not doing the same, they will be out recruiting us in and out of the state of Indiana, and kicking out butts left and right. Period.

The follow-up question was in light of the original question, which was answered by multiple people to the effect that in-state recruiting is a thing of the past and geography is largely irrelevant. It appears you are taking a different stance which sort of voids the follow up question.

 

[Dakota Girl]

I could tell you a lot about 1994... It's called knowing previous history.. That's like me asking you what happened in 1837, neither of us lived during that time, yet we both have equal access and opportunity to recall what happened.

Hey Pete,
Did he just say his age to 1994 is relatively the same as your age to 1837? Probably right.

 

[proudopete]

Hey Pete,
Did he just say his age to 1994 is relatively the same as your age to 1837? Probably right.

I remember 1837. It was a very cold winter that year.

 

[88btfu92]

Let me preface this by saying this is not a knock on any of the recent commitments..

But I can't help but wonder what is in the water in Indiana that 50% of the top 100 recruits since 2010 have chosen to leave the state. There was a time when that would have been inconceivable. You can say that times have changed, but in places like Texas and Ohio they still pretty much lock down the borders, especially in football which is king in those states as basketball is in Indiana. I'm not even asking how we are not beating IU head-to-head for recruits. They are having the same issue with pulling in state talent. Both getting beat out by KY, UM, MSU, OSU, Illinois, Xavier, and even Virginia. I'd almost feel better if these guys were going to IU or Notre Dame.

Is it too much vitriol between the in state fan bases that some kids simply choose to escape? I can't help but wonder how negative recruiting feeds into that thought process. Or is that we just happen to be surrounded by extremely successful coaches in neighboring states?

Please don't turn this into a Painter bashing thread. As I stated the other in state schools are having similar results. Here are the top 100 in state recruits since 2010 by school: Purdue (6), Indiana (5), Butler (2), Notre Dame (2), Others (15).

Purdue and Indiana have made it very easy for recruits to say no. Very easy.

 

[mathboy]

Purdue and Indiana have made it very easy for recruits to say no. Very easy.

How is that? I guess the good old fashioned "Shanghai technique" is out these days. How has Purdue made it easy to say no? I think it is a fair question.

We know we don't have an HOF coach who cries at the doors of potential recruits. Hard to find those, especially with the prerequisite drama. Aside from that, well, what?