I am not a hater

[BBG]

Nor am I blind to the issues going on. I often get asked whether I am "blind" or "are you CMP" or some such on here and I am sitting here watching a server load, so am bored and thinking about those questions.

Many won't care about this post and that is fine, it is how I truly look at things and is meant nothing more than really to express those thoughts about the team since that is what these forums are for. I figure if I address them in bullet point format, just so it is easier for people to read:

• Are you CMP? No. I am not. I call out the coach every once in a while but refrain from calling him out because I have no idea what is going on in practice, on the sidelines or in the team huddles during a timeout. I just do not see the need to berate a coach when the only thing I have to go off of is my perception and 9 times out of 10 what I THINK is going on, probably isn't.

• So CMP doesn't make mistakes? You bet your sweet baboo he does. No coach is perfect and will always do things that make us question what they are doing. He made mistakes in recruiting, he makes mistakes with his substitutions sometimes and will make mistakes in the future. Personally I think he is learning how to deal with as good if not better talent than he had with the Baby Boilers. After having to deal with head cases here recently, I think there is a little learning curve CMP has to go through again.

• Do you think CMP will get a final four? I have no idea. I would like to think so, but I don't have a crystal ball and have no way of knowing what the future holds. I sure have my opinion, but that is all it is. An opinion and certainly not based in anything factual, simply because it hasn't happened yet.

• So then why do you put your focus on the players? Simple. That is the only tangible thing we have. They bear some of the burden of executing what they are told and while sure some can be directed back to the coach, the players have to perform on the floor as well. Again it goes back to the whole "we don't know .. what we don't know" aspect of this.

• But wait, you berated me for calling CMP out. For that I was mistaken. Everyone has a right to their opinion and I respect that. It is easy to get caught up in the emotion that often swirls around here and lose track of what is important and what we all want, Purdue to win.

• Why aren't you jumping on the fire CMP bandwagon? I fail to see the point. Painter isn't going anywhere and if he continues to get 20 win seasons then he'll be here even longer. And that isn't settling or being okay with being mediocre, it is just reality. I just don't see the reason to jump on to some bandwagon that isn't going to happen. Others can and it is their right, I just choose to be positive about the team as opposed to tearing them down.

• So then where do you think we stand? Somewhere in the middle. There has been improvement over last season and I truly think things are not as bad as some think, but also not as good. Myself, along with many, thought this team could make it to the Final Four and don't regret that for a second. Each year we should all be thinking that and with some luck, it still COULD happen. But realistically the preseason polls and analysts got us right. We're an inconsistent top 20 team looking for a playmaker and some outside shooting.

• How long are you going to support CMP? The biggest benchmark for me will be how the recruiting class of 2017 and how a senior Haas/Edwards class performs. There is a lot of potential there IMO and it continues to improve. Biggie is here at least one more year (unless he gets some bad advice) and we bring in what could be the PG we have been longing for. If that senior class falters, then I will start to question.

• Wait you're already talking next year? Only to the extent of what we have coming back. I am not giving up on this year at all yet. But with as good as Carsen Edwards is playing, it is hard to not think about the future with him running the show.

Anyway, sorry for the long rambling post and thanks for indulging me .. as I said I was bored. Ultimately we all want the same thing, Purdue to win. Sure we see how to get there differently, but that is okay, that is what the forums are for. I've gotten in to arguments with some on here that I shouldn't have and that was wrong on my part, as I said it's easy to get emotionally tied up in things.

Now, time for beer.

 

[boilersallthewaynow]

Nor am I blind to the issues going on. I often get asked whether I am "blind" or "are you CMP" or some such on here and I am sitting here watching a server load, so am bored and thinking about those questions.

Many won't care about this post and that is fine, it is how I truly look at things and is meant nothing more than really to express those thoughts about the team since that is what these forums are for. I figure if I address them in bullet point format, just so it is easier for people to read:

• Are you CMP? No. I am not. I call out the coach every once in a while but refrain from calling him out because I have no idea what is going on in practice, on the sidelines or in the team huddles during a timeout. I just do not see the need to berate a coach when the only thing I have to go off of is my perception and 9 times out of 10 what I THINK is going on, probably isn't.

• So CMP doesn't make mistakes? You bet your sweet baboo he does. No coach is perfect and will always do things that make us question what they are doing. He made mistakes in recruiting, he makes mistakes with his substitutions sometimes and will make mistakes in the future. Personally I think he is learning how to deal with as good if not better talent than he had with the Baby Boilers. After having to deal with head cases here recently, I think there is a little learning curve CMP has to go through again.

• Do you think CMP will get a final four? I have no idea. I would like to think so, but I don't have a crystal ball and have no way of knowing what the future holds. I sure have my opinion, but that is all it is. An opinion and certainly not based in anything factual, simply because it hasn't happened yet.

• So then why do you put your focus on the players? Simple. That is the only tangible thing we have. They bear some of the burden of executing what they are told and while sure some can be directed back to the coach, the players have to perform on the floor as well. Again it goes back to the whole "we don't know .. what we don't know" aspect of this.

• But wait, you berated me for calling CMP out. For that I was mistaken. Everyone has a right to their opinion and I respect that. It is easy to get caught up in the emotion that often swirls around here and lose track of what is important and what we all want, Purdue to win.

• Why aren't you jumping on the fire CMP bandwagon? I fail to see the point. Painter isn't going anywhere and if he continues to get 20 win seasons then he'll be here even longer. And that isn't settling or being okay with being mediocre, it is just reality. I just don't see the reason to jump on to some bandwagon that isn't going to happen. Others can and it is their right, I just choose to be positive about the team as opposed to tearing them down.

• So then where do you think we stand? Somewhere in the middle. There has been improvement over last season and I truly think things are not as bad as some think, but also not as good. Myself, along with many, thought this team could make it to the Final Four and don't regret that for a second. Each year we should all be thinking that and with some luck, it still COULD happen. But realistically the preseason polls and analysts got us right. We're an inconsistent top 20 team looking for a playmaker and some outside shooting.

• How long are you going to support CMP? The biggest benchmark for me will be how the recruiting class of 2017 and how a senior Haas/Edwards class performs. There is a lot of potential there IMO and it continues to improve. Biggie is here at least one more year (unless he gets some bad advice) and we bring in what could be the PG we have been longing for. If that senior class falters, then I will start to question.

• Wait you're already talking next year? Only to the extent of what we have coming back. I am not giving up on this year at all yet. But with as good as Carsen Edwards is playing, it is hard to not think about the future with him running the show.

Anyway, sorry for the long rambling post and thanks for indulging me .. as I said I was bored. Ultimately we all want the same thing, Purdue to win. Sure we see how to get there differently, but that is okay, that is what the forums are for. I've gotten in to arguments with some on here that I shouldn't have and that was wrong on my part, as I said it's easy to get emotionally tied up in things.

Now, time for beer.

Good stuff. I can respect your point of view. The most important thing that I read was that we all want Purdue to win. Boiler Up !

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Nor am I blind to the issues going on. I often get asked whether I am "blind" or "are you CMP" or some such on here and I am sitting here watching a server load, so am bored and thinking about those questions.

Many won't care about this post and that is fine, it is how I truly look at things and is meant nothing more than really to express those thoughts about the team since that is what these forums are for. I figure if I address them in bullet point format, just so it is easier for people to read:

• Are you CMP? No. I am not. I call out the coach every once in a while but refrain from calling him out because I have no idea what is going on in practice, on the sidelines or in the team huddles during a timeout. I just do not see the need to berate a coach when the only thing I have to go off of is my perception and 9 times out of 10 what I THINK is going on, probably isn't.

• So CMP doesn't make mistakes? You bet your sweet baboo he does. No coach is perfect and will always do things that make us question what they are doing. He made mistakes in recruiting, he makes mistakes with his substitutions sometimes and will make mistakes in the future. Personally I think he is learning how to deal with as good if not better talent than he had with the Baby Boilers. After having to deal with head cases here recently, I think there is a little learning curve CMP has to go through again.

• Do you think CMP will get a final four? I have no idea. I would like to think so, but I don't have a crystal ball and have no way of knowing what the future holds. I sure have my opinion, but that is all it is. An opinion and certainly not based in anything factual, simply because it hasn't happened yet.

• So then why do you put your focus on the players? Simple. That is the only tangible thing we have. They bear some of the burden of executing what they are told and while sure some can be directed back to the coach, the players have to perform on the floor as well. Again it goes back to the whole "we don't know .. what we don't know" aspect of this.

• But wait, you berated me for calling CMP out. For that I was mistaken. Everyone has a right to their opinion and I respect that. It is easy to get caught up in the emotion that often swirls around here and lose track of what is important and what we all want, Purdue to win.

• Why aren't you jumping on the fire CMP bandwagon? I fail to see the point. Painter isn't going anywhere and if he continues to get 20 win seasons then he'll be here even longer. And that isn't settling or being okay with being mediocre, it is just reality. I just don't see the reason to jump on to some bandwagon that isn't going to happen. Others can and it is their right, I just choose to be positive about the team as opposed to tearing them down.

• So then where do you think we stand? Somewhere in the middle. There has been improvement over last season and I truly think things are not as bad as some think, but also not as good. Myself, along with many, thought this team could make it to the Final Four and don't regret that for a second. Each year we should all be thinking that and with some luck, it still COULD happen. But realistically the preseason polls and analysts got us right. We're an inconsistent top 20 team looking for a playmaker and some outside shooting.

• How long are you going to support CMP? The biggest benchmark for me will be how the recruiting class of 2017 and how a senior Haas/Edwards class performs. There is a lot of potential there IMO and it continues to improve. Biggie is here at least one more year (unless he gets some bad advice) and we bring in what could be the PG we have been longing for. If that senior class falters, then I will start to question.

• Wait you're already talking next year? Only to the extent of what we have coming back. I am not giving up on this year at all yet. But with as good as Carsen Edwards is playing, it is hard to not think about the future with him running the show.

Anyway, sorry for the long rambling post and thanks for indulging me .. as I said I was bored. Ultimately we all want the same thing, Purdue to win. Sure we see how to get there differently, but that is okay, that is what the forums are for. I've gotten in to arguments with some on here that I shouldn't have and that was wrong on my part, as I said it's easy to get emotionally tied up in things.

Now, time for beer.

Great post. I agree with your primary points. And the season is far from over.

 

[BBG]

Good stuff. I can respect your point of view. The most important thing that I read was that we all want Purdue to win. Boiler Up !

Thanks and you are spot on with your takeaway. We all want to just win. Part of the emotional outburst is i think we had high expectations for this season that havent come to be yet.

We haven't had a reason to have those high hopes for a while. So because of that in can see why some take the avenue they do in regards to how to fix things.

 

[boilerzz]

Ultimately we all want the same thing, Purdue to win.

Well, except SeminoleBoiler of course. He'd rather Purdue lose so he can be proven right.

 

[BBG]

Well, except SeminoleBoiler of course. He'd rather Purdue lose so he can be proven right.

What's the old addage, there is an exception to every rule?

 

[HomelessHarvey97]

Nor am I blind to the issues going on. I often get asked whether I am "blind" or "are you CMP" or some such on here and I am sitting here watching a server load, so am bored and thinking about those questions.

Many won't care about this post and that is fine, it is how I truly look at things and is meant nothing more than really to express those thoughts about the team since that is what these forums are for. I figure if I address them in bullet point format, just so it is easier for people to read:

• Are you CMP? No. I am not. I call out the coach every once in a while but refrain from calling him out because I have no idea what is going on in practice, on the sidelines or in the team huddles during a timeout. I just do not see the need to berate a coach when the only thing I have to go off of is my perception and 9 times out of 10 what I THINK is going on, probably isn't.

• So CMP doesn't make mistakes? You bet your sweet baboo he does. No coach is perfect and will always do things that make us question what they are doing. He made mistakes in recruiting, he makes mistakes with his substitutions sometimes and will make mistakes in the future. Personally I think he is learning how to deal with as good if not better talent than he had with the Baby Boilers. After having to deal with head cases here recently, I think there is a little learning curve CMP has to go through again.

• Do you think CMP will get a final four? I have no idea. I would like to think so, but I don't have a crystal ball and have no way of knowing what the future holds. I sure have my opinion, but that is all it is. An opinion and certainly not based in anything factual, simply because it hasn't happened yet.

• So then why do you put your focus on the players? Simple. That is the only tangible thing we have. They bear some of the burden of executing what they are told and while sure some can be directed back to the coach, the players have to perform on the floor as well. Again it goes back to the whole "we don't know .. what we don't know" aspect of this.

• But wait, you berated me for calling CMP out. For that I was mistaken. Everyone has a right to their opinion and I respect that. It is easy to get caught up in the emotion that often swirls around here and lose track of what is important and what we all want, Purdue to win.

• Why aren't you jumping on the fire CMP bandwagon? I fail to see the point. Painter isn't going anywhere and if he continues to get 20 win seasons then he'll be here even longer. And that isn't settling or being okay with being mediocre, it is just reality. I just don't see the reason to jump on to some bandwagon that isn't going to happen. Others can and it is their right, I just choose to be positive about the team as opposed to tearing them down.

• So then where do you think we stand? Somewhere in the middle. There has been improvement over last season and I truly think things are not as bad as some think, but also not as good. Myself, along with many, thought this team could make it to the Final Four and don't regret that for a second. Each year we should all be thinking that and with some luck, it still COULD happen. But realistically the preseason polls and analysts got us right. We're an inconsistent top 20 team looking for a playmaker and some outside shooting.

• How long are you going to support CMP? The biggest benchmark for me will be how the recruiting class of 2017 and how a senior Haas/Edwards class performs. There is a lot of potential there IMO and it continues to improve. Biggie is here at least one more year (unless he gets some bad advice) and we bring in what could be the PG we have been longing for. If that senior class falters, then I will start to question.

• Wait you're already talking next year? Only to the extent of what we have coming back. I am not giving up on this year at all yet. But with as good as Carsen Edwards is playing, it is hard to not think about the future with him running the show.

Anyway, sorry for the long rambling post and thanks for indulging me .. as I said I was bored. Ultimately we all want the same thing, Purdue to win. Sure we see how to get there differently, but that is okay, that is what the forums are for. I've gotten in to arguments with some on here that I shouldn't have and that was wrong on my part, as I said it's easy to get emotionally tied up in things.

Now, time for beer.

Well put. You are one of the posters I actually make a habit of reading.

 

[Do Dah Day]

Thanks and you are spot on with your takeaway. We all want to just win. Part of the emotional outburst is i think we had high expectations for this season that havent come to be yet.

We haven't had a reason to have those high hopes for a while. So because of that in can see why some take the avenue they do in regards to how to fix things.

Agreed. WE had high expectations. And now, when the team and/or the coach doesn't meet OUR expectations, we're mad at them. I don't know if anyone here is a professional scout or a D1 coach or holds another job that gives him the insight and experience to judge a coach or a player at this lever. I know I don't. And yes, going without for a while does make one highly desirous, but it does not put the burden on them to be more than they are. I do think there are some key ingredients missing from this team, but they don't have to do with the coaching or too much with an individual player. I also think some players came back this fall and have not performed like WE thought they would/should. The way several played against the weak early schedule just added fuel to our high hopes. It all adds-up to disappointment and frustration.

Being able to go up by so much in the first halves of several games has built-up the high expectations and greatly increased the desolate feelings at the ends of those games.

Having been a coach for 22 years and spending a large amount of my time the past four years in Mackey, Mollenkopf, and Brees gives me a bit more understanding than many. I refrain from adding comments to those who make statements that assume they know what is going on behind the scenes because there is an amount of professionalism that needs to go along with the friendships and conversations that I have. Let me assure you, if I had a son that could play B1G ball, I would want him to play for CMP as much or more than any other coach. The work he puts into helping those players mature and become men who contribute to society and who want his help, along with several others on the staff (and there are staff members working with these guys every single day, year-round) and the PLAYERS WHO COME BACK to the program to help is astonishing.

I have done a reasonable amount of research into who could possibly be a better coach that would make a move to PU and have a high expectation of being better ... but then I ran into that word expectation again, and decided that was a waste of my time to pursue further.

 

[boiler-deuce]

Well, I enjoyed reading that BBG. I always respect a well put together and thought out piece put up here by us. You Sir, did a fine job and I commend you. What I request of you is to please follow through on this: "But wait, you berated me for calling CMP out. For that I was mistaken." I don't always hammer Painter, but when I do, I do it in an honest, spirited and respectful way. I do get tried of any critical analysis, being met instantly with ad homs. I try to not generally just smoke the guy, but when I put my disappointment up, it's a real and honest opinion. And, this: "Anyway, sorry for the long rambling post and thanks for indulging me", Actually when you put together an entertaining and well written piece, it's not rambling and doesn't need indulging. Thanks for sharing! And BOILER UP!!

 

[BBG]

Well put. You are one of the posters I actually make a habit of reading.

Well thanks. I get caught up like others, but try and be practical or joking at least.

 

[BBG]

Well, I enjoyed reading that BBG. I always respect a well put together and thought out piece put up here by us. You Sir, did a fine job and I commend you. What I request of you is to please follow through on this: "But wait, you berated me for calling CMP out. For that I was mistaken." I don't always hammer Painter, but when I do, I do it in an honest, spirited and respectful way. I do get tried of any critical analysis, being met instantly with ad homs. I try to not generally just smoke the guy, but when I put my disappointment up, it's a real and honest opinion. And, this: "Anyway, sorry for the long rambling post and thanks for indulging me", Actually when you put together an entertaining and well written piece, it's not rambling and doesn't need indulging. Thanks for sharing! And BOILER UP!!

Thanks BD and I will do my best to hold myself to that line when it comes to your posts . A lot of us I think would agree more often if we waited to post for a bit. Especially after a loss when emotions are running high and I am no exception.

 

[BBG]

Agreed. WE had high expectations. And now, when the team and/or the coach doesn't meet OUR expectations, we're mad at them. I don't know if anyone here is a professional scout or a D1 coach or holds another job that gives him the insight and experience to judge a coach or a player at this lever. I know I don't. And yes, going without for a while does make one highly desirous, but it does not put the burden on them to be more than they are. I do think there are some key ingredients missing from this team, but they don't have to do with the coaching or too much with an individual player. I also think some players came back this fall and have not performed like WE thought they would/should. The way several played against the weak early schedule just added fuel to our high hopes. It all adds-up to disappointment and frustration.

Being able to go up by so much in the first halves of several games has built-up the high expectations and greatly increased the desolate feelings at the ends of those games.

Having been a coach for 22 years and spending a large amount of my time the past four years in Mackey, Mollenkopf, and Brees gives me a bit more understanding than many. I refrain from adding comments to those who make statements that assume they know what is going on behind the scenes because there is an amount of professionalism that needs to go along with the friendships and conversations that I have. Let me assure you, if I had a son that could play B1G ball, I would want him to play for CMP as much or more than any other coach. The work he puts into helping those players mature and become men who contribute to society and who want his help, along with several others on the staff (and there are staff members working with these guys every single day, year-round) and the PLAYERS WHO COME BACK to the program to help is astonishing.

I have done a reasonable amount of research into who could possibly be a better coach that would make a move to PU and have a high expectation of being better ... but then I ran into that word expectation again, and decided that was a waste of my time to pursue further.

Great post and thanks for enlightening me and hopefully others.

 

[PU pit bull]

Good stuff BBG. For me, it's simple. I will support PU, win or lose.........no matter what coach is coaching........no matter what players are on the team. There is no other team for me. Do I question things from time to time? Sure, who doesn't? Will it stop me from watching/supporting PU? No way. Maybe that is a bit of a robotic approach......but I'm just a fan of PU, plain and simple. Would I like to see a modern day NC? Definitely. But I also know that may never happen.........ain't going to jump off any bridges. BTFU!!!

 

[tjreese]

Agreed. WE had high expectations. And now, when the team and/or the coach doesn't meet OUR expectations, we're mad at them. I don't know if anyone here is a professional scout or a D1 coach or holds another job that gives him the insight and experience to judge a coach or a player at this lever. I know I don't. And yes, going without for a while does make one highly desirous, but it does not put the burden on them to be more than they are. I do think there are some key ingredients missing from this team, but they don't have to do with the coaching or too much with an individual player. I also think some players came back this fall and have not performed like WE thought they would/should. The way several played against the weak early schedule just added fuel to our high hopes. It all adds-up to disappointment and frustration.

Being able to go up by so much in the first halves of several games has built-up the high expectations and greatly increased the desolate feelings at the ends of those games.

Having been a coach for 22 years and spending a large amount of my time the past four years in Mackey, Mollenkopf, and Brees gives me a bit more understanding than many. I refrain from adding comments to those who make statements that assume they know what is going on behind the scenes because there is an amount of professionalism that needs to go along with the friendships and conversations that I have. Let me assure you, if I had a son that could play B1G ball, I would want him to play for CMP as much or more than any other coach. The work he puts into helping those players mature and become men who contribute to society and who want his help, along with several others on the staff (and there are staff members working with these guys every single day, year-round) and the PLAYERS WHO COME BACK to the program to help is astonishing.

I have done a reasonable amount of research into who could possibly be a better coach that would make a move to PU and have a high expectation of being better ... but then I ran into that word expectation again, and decided that was a waste of my time to pursue further.

Well said...

 

[tigerchump]

Nor am I blind to the issues going on. I often get asked whether I am "blind" or "are you CMP" or some such on here and I am sitting here watching a server load, so am bored and thinking about those questions.

Many won't care about this post and that is fine, it is how I truly look at things and is meant nothing more than really to express those thoughts about the team since that is what these forums are for. I figure if I address them in bullet point format, just so it is easier for people to read:

• Are you CMP? No. I am not. I call out the coach every once in a while but refrain from calling him out because I have no idea what is going on in practice, on the sidelines or in the team huddles during a timeout. I just do not see the need to berate a coach when the only thing I have to go off of is my perception and 9 times out of 10 what I THINK is going on, probably isn't.

• So CMP doesn't make mistakes? You bet your sweet baboo he does. No coach is perfect and will always do things that make us question what they are doing. He made mistakes in recruiting, he makes mistakes with his substitutions sometimes and will make mistakes in the future. Personally I think he is learning how to deal with as good if not better talent than he had with the Baby Boilers. After having to deal with head cases here recently, I think there is a little learning curve CMP has to go through again.

• Do you think CMP will get a final four? I have no idea. I would like to think so, but I don't have a crystal ball and have no way of knowing what the future holds. I sure have my opinion, but that is all it is. An opinion and certainly not based in anything factual, simply because it hasn't happened yet.

• So then why do you put your focus on the players? Simple. That is the only tangible thing we have. They bear some of the burden of executing what they are told and while sure some can be directed back to the coach, the players have to perform on the floor as well. Again it goes back to the whole "we don't know .. what we don't know" aspect of this.

• But wait, you berated me for calling CMP out. For that I was mistaken. Everyone has a right to their opinion and I respect that. It is easy to get caught up in the emotion that often swirls around here and lose track of what is important and what we all want, Purdue to win.

• Why aren't you jumping on the fire CMP bandwagon? I fail to see the point. Painter isn't going anywhere and if he continues to get 20 win seasons then he'll be here even longer. And that isn't settling or being okay with being mediocre, it is just reality. I just don't see the reason to jump on to some bandwagon that isn't going to happen. Others can and it is their right, I just choose to be positive about the team as opposed to tearing them down.

• So then where do you think we stand? Somewhere in the middle. There has been improvement over last season and I truly think things are not as bad as some think, but also not as good. Myself, along with many, thought this team could make it to the Final Four and don't regret that for a second. Each year we should all be thinking that and with some luck, it still COULD happen. But realistically the preseason polls and analysts got us right. We're an inconsistent top 20 team looking for a playmaker and some outside shooting.

• How long are you going to support CMP? The biggest benchmark for me will be how the recruiting class of 2017 and how a senior Haas/Edwards class performs. There is a lot of potential there IMO and it continues to improve. Biggie is here at least one more year (unless he gets some bad advice) and we bring in what could be the PG we have been longing for. If that senior class falters, then I will start to question.

• Wait you're already talking next year? Only to the extent of what we have coming back. I am not giving up on this year at all yet. But with as good as Carsen Edwards is playing, it is hard to not think about the future with him running the show.

Anyway, sorry for the long rambling post and thanks for indulging me .. as I said I was bored. Ultimately we all want the same thing, Purdue to win. Sure we see how to get there differently, but that is okay, that is what the forums are for. I've gotten in to arguments with some on here that I shouldn't have and that was wrong on my part, as I said it's easy to get emotionally tied up in things.

Now, time for beer.

Wonderful post.Thanks.

 

[Chuchumutha]

Agreed. WE had high expectations. And now, when the team and/or the coach doesn't meet OUR expectations, we're mad at them. I don't know if anyone here is a professional scout or a D1 coach or holds another job that gives him the insight and experience to judge a coach or a player at this lever. I know I don't. And yes, going without for a while does make one highly desirous, but it does not put the burden on them to be more than they are. I do think there are some key ingredients missing from this team, but they don't have to do with the coaching or too much with an individual player. I also think some players came back this fall and have not performed like WE thought they would/should. The way several played against the weak early schedule just added fuel to our high hopes. It all adds-up to disappointment and frustration.

Being able to go up by so much in the first halves of several games has built-up the high expectations and greatly increased the desolate feelings at the ends of those games.

Having been a coach for 22 years and spending a large amount of my time the past four years in Mackey, Mollenkopf, and Brees gives me a bit more understanding than many. I refrain from adding comments to those who make statements that assume they know what is going on behind the scenes because there is an amount of professionalism that needs to go along with the friendships and conversations that I have. Let me assure you, if I had a son that could play B1G ball, I would want him to play for CMP as much or more than any other coach. The work he puts into helping those players mature and become men who contribute to society and who want his help, along with several others on the staff (and there are staff members working with these guys every single day, year-round) and the PLAYERS WHO COME BACK to the program to help is astonishing.

I have done a reasonable amount of research into who could possibly be a better coach that would make a move to PU and have a high expectation of being better ... but then I ran into that word expectation again, and decided that was a waste of my time to pursue further.

I enjoyed reading this. You are obviously closer to the program than most of us and insights like this are valuable. I have no first hand knowledge on this subject but your thoughts validate what I have sensed about Matt for years. He seems to have the respect and affection of his past and present players. It's not something that is outwardly obvious like Izzo for example, but it's there. You can hear it in some of the comments of the players like when Kendall said Painter wasn't a good coach, he's a great coach. Even Bryson had nothing negative to say when he made the decision to leave. I think most of us recognize and appreciate true honesty when we hear it. We may not like what we hear but if we truly believe it is coming from someone who has our best interests in mind, we can accept it, learn from it, and grow. And I believe that is what Matt gives his players on and off the court. Is he a perfect coach? Of course not. But he has his players backs and they have his.

 

[atmafola]

Anybody who is willing to criticize players but not coaches gets little respect from me. Only one of those persons is paid, handsomely too, to get us wins. By definition, Coach Painter has some culpability in every single loss. Period.

 

[BBG]

Anybody who is willing to criticize players but not coaches gets little respect from me. Only one of those persons is paid, handsomely too, to get us wins. By definition, Coach Painter has some culpability in every single loss. Period.

And while I don't disagree with your opinion, by that same token the players are getting a free education so while not paid millions, that still is a significant thing. This is a team sport, so really to me all entities bear the load on a loss ... and a win.... from the top down.

My point with my original post really is that just because I call out the players, it doesn't necessarily mean I don't hold Painter responsible as well. It's just more tangible to to point out the player because it is one area we can all visibly see where we don't know really what is going on inside the huddle or practice or what have you.

 

[Do Dah Day]

Anybody who is willing to criticize players but not coaches gets little respect from me. Only one of those persons is paid, handsomely too, to get us wins. By definition, Coach Painter has some culpability in every single loss. Period.

The conventional wisdom is that players get the credit for the wins, coaches get the credit for the losses. We all know it is more a fifty-fifty. There can be games that are coached perfectly and the players don't execute and we know that there are games that are coached poorly and the players play awesome. There are also the poor match-ups. There are always great teams who get a bad match-up in a tourney and go out early. Basketball is a far more complex game that having great players who are emotionally UP every game and great coaches who roll the dice and win every roll.

How many times has King James been criticized for passing to another player when he should have shot the ball. Even the best are faced with endless decisions which must be made in the heat of the moment and in a split second. Or at least during a time out. And most will be lauded to the clouds if they work and sent straight to hell if they don't work.

If a coach has culpability for every loss, he then also gets credit for every win. Seems to me we are back at the same spot we started.

 

[FirstDownB]

I do think there are some key ingredients missing from this team, but they don't have to do with the coaching or too much with an individual player. I also think some players came back this fall and have not performed like WE thought they would/should. The way several played against the weak early schedule just added fuel to our high hopes. It all adds-up to disappointment and frustration.

This is a very good 4 sentence summary. Fact is this is largely the same team as last year and will likely end up with 2-3 more wins. I think a lot of people were mistaken in believing there would be a huge jump in terms of wins. I'll admit that was my hope, but it wasn't my expectation.

Fans wanted to take, for example, the upside of Biggie without the downside that a freshman big man brings. Fans wanted to believe the returning players are all going to be much better than last year. Fans wanted to believe they saw something the prognosticators were blind to.

Unfortunately the reality is the players on the roster have limited ceilings and many simply are what they are. It is what it is. Hopes do not always match reality. Sure, there are areas for constructive criticism, and this team could probably have won 1 or 2 more games as currently constructed, but to me there have been fewer surprise results this season than most seasons I can remember. The 50/50 games have gone pretty much 50/50, and we dropped one we shouldn't have (Illinois). If you go back to the advanced stat projections from 4-6 weeks ago, no game since the Illinois game has significantly deviated from projections. In other words, we saw what this team was going to be 1-2 months ago, but many were deluded to think those were uncharacteristic because of their own expectations and the early season W/L record.

To see people jumping off a cliff after a loss on the road to a top 50 team in mid-Feb just tells me a lot of fans really haven't been paying close attention the last 2 months.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

no need for all this. Anyone who's not a troll knows you're a Boilermaker. The losses are frustrating but we still have a lot of ball to play!

 

[Do Dah Day]

no need for all this. Anyone who's not a troll knows you're a Boilermaker. The losses are frustrating but we still have a lot of ball to play!

sometimes talking things out can be cathartic for the person writing...so that fulfills a need.

 

[tjreese]

Anybody who is willing to criticize players but not coaches gets little respect from me. Only one of those persons is paid, handsomely too, to get us wins. By definition, Coach Painter has some culpability in every single loss. Period.

There is no question that some culpability is fair. A coach should share in that. In all areas of life the debate could and should be whether it is poor execution or poor procedure. The lines of demarcation blur or should blur in that debate, but they exist and will always exist anytime things are not perfect or at least do not meet a preconceived expectation. In my experience outside basketball in dealing with problems in manufacturing sites all over the world when quality issues arise, it is rare that a procedure is the problem. Typically there is a bloat of bureaucracy already in place to attempt to eliminate human error, but it is typically human error or lack of execution of the existing procedures that is the problem, not that the procedures never addressed the problem. Now that is not 100% and will never be a 100% and again this is not to suggest that a coach should not share in the lack of execution or provide a better way to execute…just that good execution typically prevents the need to look at improving the procedures.

When students don’t do as well in school, most the time for most students it is the student that has not executed rather than the teacher not teaching as well. Now, don’t think that I don’t think teachers have some problems or contribute to poor learning by faddish practices in pedagogy because I know for a fact they do as a result that many of my years were spent studying education in our k-12 government schools and that is a whole tome of information I don’t think is needed here. Sometimes the coffee pot over flowing is not due to the coffee pot, but a person using too much water or two filters and such…human mistakes.

In basketball or sports in general there is no question that coaches make a difference. I have some philosophical differences with Matt, but very few relative to basketball. He is not perfect and has made mistakes in my opinion. That said there is no question in my mind that he is much better than most. There is no question his players today and in the past think that as well. Just right now we see Robbie choosing to live with him to see if coaching might be in the future. Just the other day before MSU, Jon Octeus was there with the team in workout gear. Sterling Carter just tweeted a couple of days ago how happy he was to be a boiler. When Matt worked with an international team, players like Trevor Mbakwe went on and on about how much he learned in a short time. Don’t think Matt doesn’t know basketball…and don’t think he is above fair criticism.

People need to understand that Matt’s team is not playing years ago when you could coach and have the discipline to take a good shot if not there in the first 23 seconds like today. People need to understand that the rule emphasis has protected offensive athletic guard play today more than post play and that too goes against Purdue. Purdue was in a mess a couple of years ago with players. Today a significant step forward is in place and a good shot in 2017 to step up again. Purdue shows signs of really being good and reveals the inherent Achilles heel in the same game many times and that only serves to frustrate people with the “potential”…

Matt is fair game in criticism and deserves some, but I must say many posters appear to me that to perhaps not understand the situation enough for my liking and perhaps not understand some of the finer details in a game. This is NOT aimed at you, just a general statement of my opinion on end results and cupability.

 

[BBG]

no need for all this. Anyone who's not a troll knows you're a Boilermaker. The losses are frustrating but we still have a lot of ball to play!

Thanks Top and complely agree on all your points. Do Dah nailed it, this was more or less for my own attempt to spark some civil conversation and to relay my honest opinions since I've been asked lately.

I must say, I do like your very direct approach to things I've seen from you on here in the past.

 

[TJBoiler]

Nor am I blind to the issues going on. I often get asked whether I am "blind" or "are you CMP" or some such on here and I am sitting here watching a server load, so am bored and thinking about those questions.

Many won't care about this post and that is fine, it is how I truly look at things and is meant nothing more than really to express those thoughts about the team since that is what these forums are for. I figure if I address them in bullet point format, just so it is easier for people to read:

• Are you CMP? No. I am not. I call out the coach every once in a while but refrain from calling him out because I have no idea what is going on in practice, on the sidelines or in the team huddles during a timeout. I just do not see the need to berate a coach when the only thing I have to go off of is my perception and 9 times out of 10 what I THINK is going on, probably isn't.

• So CMP doesn't make mistakes? You bet your sweet baboo he does. No coach is perfect and will always do things that make us question what they are doing. He made mistakes in recruiting, he makes mistakes with his substitutions sometimes and will make mistakes in the future. Personally I think he is learning how to deal with as good if not better talent than he had with the Baby Boilers. After having to deal with head cases here recently, I think there is a little learning curve CMP has to go through again.

• Do you think CMP will get a final four? I have no idea. I would like to think so, but I don't have a crystal ball and have no way of knowing what the future holds. I sure have my opinion, but that is all it is. An opinion and certainly not based in anything factual, simply because it hasn't happened yet.

• So then why do you put your focus on the players? Simple. That is the only tangible thing we have. They bear some of the burden of executing what they are told and while sure some can be directed back to the coach, the players have to perform on the floor as well. Again it goes back to the whole "we don't know .. what we don't know" aspect of this.

• But wait, you berated me for calling CMP out. For that I was mistaken. Everyone has a right to their opinion and I respect that. It is easy to get caught up in the emotion that often swirls around here and lose track of what is important and what we all want, Purdue to win.

• Why aren't you jumping on the fire CMP bandwagon? I fail to see the point. Painter isn't going anywhere and if he continues to get 20 win seasons then he'll be here even longer. And that isn't settling or being okay with being mediocre, it is just reality. I just don't see the reason to jump on to some bandwagon that isn't going to happen. Others can and it is their right, I just choose to be positive about the team as opposed to tearing them down.

• So then where do you think we stand? Somewhere in the middle. There has been improvement over last season and I truly think things are not as bad as some think, but also not as good. Myself, along with many, thought this team could make it to the Final Four and don't regret that for a second. Each year we should all be thinking that and with some luck, it still COULD happen. But realistically the preseason polls and analysts got us right. We're an inconsistent top 20 team looking for a playmaker and some outside shooting.

• How long are you going to support CMP? The biggest benchmark for me will be how the recruiting class of 2017 and how a senior Haas/Edwards class performs. There is a lot of potential there IMO and it continues to improve. Biggie is here at least one more year (unless he gets some bad advice) and we bring in what could be the PG we have been longing for. If that senior class falters, then I will start to question.

• Wait you're already talking next year? Only to the extent of what we have coming back. I am not giving up on this year at all yet. But with as good as Carsen Edwards is playing, it is hard to not think about the future with him running the show.

Anyway, sorry for the long rambling post and thanks for indulging me .. as I said I was bored. Ultimately we all want the same thing, Purdue to win. Sure we see how to get there differently, but that is okay, that is what the forums are for. I've gotten in to arguments with some on here that I shouldn't have and that was wrong on my part, as I said it's easy to get emotionally tied up in things.

Now, time for beer.

 

[FirstDownB]

There is no question that some culpability is fair. A coach should share in that. In all areas of life the debate could and should be whether it is poor execution or poor procedure. The lines of demarcation blur or should blur in that debate, but they exist and will always exist anytime things are not perfect or at least do not meet a preconceived expectation. In my experience outside basketball in dealing with problems in manufacturing sites all over the world when quality issues arise, it is rare that a procedure is the problem. Typically there is a bloat of bureaucracy already in place to attempt to eliminate human error, but it is typically human error or lack of execution of the existing procedures that is the problem, not that the procedures never addressed the problem. Now that is not 100% and will never be a 100% and again this is not to suggest that a coach should not share in the lack of execution or provide a better way to execute…just that good execution typically prevents the need to look at improving the procedures.

When students don’t do as well in school, most the time for most students it is the student that has not executed rather than the teacher not teaching as well. Now, don’t think that I don’t think teachers have some problems or contribute to poor learning by faddish practices in pedagogy because I know for a fact they do as a result that many of my years were spent studying education in our k-12 government schools and that is a whole tome of information I don’t think is needed here. Sometimes the coffee pot over flowing is not due to the coffee pot, but a person using too much water or two filters and such…human mistakes.

In basketball or sports in general there is no question that coaches make a difference. I have some philosophical differences with Matt, but very few relative to basketball. He is not perfect and has made mistakes in my opinion. That said there is no question in my mind that he is much better than most. There is no question his players today and in the past think that as well. Just right now we see Robbie choosing to live with him to see if coaching might be in the future. Just the other day before MSU, Jon Octeus was there with the team in workout gear. Sterling Carter just tweeted a couple of days ago how happy he was to be a boiler. When Matt worked with an international team, players like Trevor Mbakwe went on and on about how much he learned in a short time. Don’t think Matt doesn’t know basketball…and don’t think he is above fair criticism.

People need to understand that Matt’s team is not playing years ago when you could coach and have the discipline to take a good shot if not there in the first 23 seconds like today. People need to understand that the rule emphasis has protected offensive athletic guard play today more than post play and that too goes against Purdue. Purdue was in a mess a couple of years ago with players. Today a significant step forward is in place and a good shot in 2017 to step up again. Purdue shows signs of really being good and reveals the inherent Achilles heel in the same game many times and that only serves to frustrate people with the “potential”…

Matt is fair game in criticism and deserves some, but I must say many posters appear to me that to perhaps not understand the situation enough for my liking and perhaps not understand some of the finer details in a game. This is NOT aimed at you, just a general statement of my opinion on end results and cupability.

There is a time for the big picture discussion regarding the coach. It is his program, his players, his philosophies, and his record.
But people rehashing the same arguments after each and every loss grows tiresome. To me it is far more interesting and constructive to discuss the finer points and constructive criticisms within the constraints of what this team and its players are realistically capable of than to bitch about why we don't have a PG who can do this or that or why we don't have a dominant playmaker.

 

[TJBoiler]

There is no question that some culpability is fair. A coach should share in that. In all areas of life the debate could and should be whether it is poor execution or poor procedure. The lines of demarcation blur or should blur in that debate, but they exist and will always exist anytime things are not perfect or at least do not meet a preconceived expectation. In my experience outside basketball in dealing with problems in manufacturing sites all over the world when quality issues arise, it is rare that a procedure is the problem. Typically there is a bloat of bureaucracy already in place to attempt to eliminate human error, but it is typically human error or lack of execution of the existing procedures that is the problem, not that the procedures never addressed the problem. Now that is not 100% and will never be a 100% and again this is not to suggest that a coach should not share in the lack of execution or provide a better way to execute…just that good execution typically prevents the need to look at improving the procedures.

When students don’t do as well in school, most the time for most students it is the student that has not executed rather than the teacher not teaching as well. Now, don’t think that I don’t think teachers have some problems or contribute to poor learning by faddish practices in pedagogy because I know for a fact they do as a result that many of my years were spent studying education in our k-12 government schools and that is a whole tome of information I don’t think is needed here. Sometimes the coffee pot over flowing is not due to the coffee pot, but a person using too much water or two filters and such…human mistakes.

In basketball or sports in general there is no question that coaches make a difference. I have some philosophical differences with Matt, but very few relative to basketball. He is not perfect and has made mistakes in my opinion. That said there is no question in my mind that he is much better than most. There is no question his players today and in the past think that as well. Just right now we see Robbie choosing to live with him to see if coaching might be in the future. Just the other day before MSU, Jon Octeus was there with the team in workout gear. Sterling Carter just tweeted a couple of days ago how happy he was to be a boiler. When Matt worked with an international team, players like Trevor Mbakwe went on and on about how much he learned in a short time. Don’t think Matt doesn’t know basketball…and don’t think he is above fair criticism.

People need to understand that Matt’s team is not playing years ago when you could coach and have the discipline to take a good shot if not there in the first 23 seconds like today. People need to understand that the rule emphasis has protected offensive athletic guard play today more than post play and that too goes against Purdue. Purdue was in a mess a couple of years ago with players. Today a significant step forward is in place and a good shot in 2017 to step up again. Purdue shows signs of really being good and reveals the inherent Achilles heel in the same game many times and that only serves to frustrate people with the “potential”…

Matt is fair game in criticism and deserves some, but I must say many posters appear to me that to perhaps not understand the situation enough for my liking and perhaps not understand some of the finer details in a game. This is NOT aimed at you, just a general statement of my opinion on end results and cupability.

BBG I don't think Painter is the greatest coach in the world. He is old school using some of Knight's philosophy. He is not a bad coach either. The NCAA tournament is soo based on variables. I laugh my azz off every year over this obsession by the media and fans over seedings. Tom Izzo is a great coach but if you look at MSU history in the tournament. They have gotten alot of luck in facing teams late in the tourney that upset higher ranked teams.

Lets look at Matt's teams in the tourney. In 2007 upset a talented Arizona lost to 2 time Champ Florida and gave them everything they could handle. In 2008 lost to an experienced, talented Xavier team. In 2009 upset Wash St who had that Isaiah Thomas in Seattle and lost to a more talented U Conn team that went to Final 4. 2010 lost Hummel and upset Texas losing to eventual champ Duke. 2011 that team fizzled out and was upset by Virginia Tech who went to Final 4. 2012 almost upset Kansas in 2nd rd and last year an inexperienced team lost to Cincy.

What I really wanted to post is this: Villanova is #1 in the country right now. Villanova was the 2 seed losing in 2nd rd 2 years ago and a 1 seed last year losing in the 2nd rd. Now #1 again.

COULD you imagine If Purdue under Painter was a #2 seed 2014 and #1 seed last year losing in 2nd rd both years? Fans on here would be demanding Painters head.

I agree the team has been disappointing this year and is inconsistent. Hammons is their best player and their are games where he doesn't show up like Michigan mentally. I ask how does it affect a team when the other players don't know if their BEST player is going to show up or not. Will Hammons have the team's back or will he be a no show?

 

[Dryfly88]

This is a very good 4 sentence summary. Fact is this is largely the same team as last year and will likely end up with 2-3 more wins. I think a lot of people were mistaken in believing there would be a huge jump in terms of wins. I'll admit that was my hope, but it wasn't my expectation.

Fans wanted to take, for example, the upside of Biggie without the downside that a freshman big man brings. Fans wanted to believe the returning players are all going to be much better than last year. Fans wanted to believe they saw something the prognosticators were blind to.

Unfortunately the reality is the players on the roster have limited ceilings and many simply are what they are. It is what it is. Hopes do not always match reality. Sure, there are areas for constructive criticism, and this team could probably have won 1 or 2 more games as currently constructed, but to me there have been fewer surprise results this season than most seasons I can remember. The 50/50 games have gone pretty much 50/50, and we dropped one we shouldn't have (Illinois). If you go back to the advanced stat projections from 4-6 weeks ago, no game since the Illinois game has significantly deviated from projections. In other words, we saw what this team was going to be 1-2 months ago, but many were deluded to think those were uncharacteristic because of their own expectations and the early season W/L record.

To see people jumping off a cliff after a loss on the road to a top 50 team in mid-Feb just tells me a lot of fans really haven't been paying close attention the last 2 months.

Very good points.

While a few of the losses have been particularly frustrating (Illinois/Michigan home vs Iowa) this team is really right where most "experts" had them picked. Upper/middle part of conference, upper parts of top 25 and a 5-7 seed in the dance.

I'm glad this thread was started. It gave me a chance to take a breath, put down the bottle of Jack and realize we are right where we probably should be. 20-6 and hopefully after tonight 21-6 is nothing to be mad about. Just continue to fight and get as high as seed as possible in conference and big dance. Hope for some good match-ups in tournament and see what we can do.

 

[atmafola]

excellent point folks. By the way, I agree with most that Coach Painter is a pretty good coach for us. Whether he is elite is still up for debate. He has the chance to prove that. Overall, I am glad he is our coach. If we fired him, I believe there is a much bigger than chance we would end up with somebody worse than we would someone better.

That said, I just have a fundamental problem with people who simultaneously blame students while defending the coach. It smirks of tribal hypocrisy and rubs me off the wrong way. If we we want to discuss specific things people didn't do well in a particular game - coach and/or students, I am game with that as long as it is done respectfully to both coach and students.

Tjreese, agree with most of your post except some of the student-teacher bits. A great teacher inspires even students to learn and can make a helluva difference.

 

[Do Dah Day]

What I really wanted to post is this: Villanova is #1 in the country right now. Villanova was the 2 seed losing in 2nd rd 2 years ago and a 1 seed last year losing in the 2nd rd. Now #1 again.

COULD you imagine If Purdue under Painter was a #2 seed 2014 and #1 seed last year losing in 2nd rd both years? Fans on here would be demanding Painters head.

2010 - Kansas, Big12 Champ, 1 seed --- loses in 2nd round to Northern Iowa
2014 - Kansas, Big12 Champ, 2 seed --- loses in 2nd round to Stanford
2015 - Kansas, Big12 Champ, 2 seed --- loses in 2nd round to Wichita St by 13

Yes, they have won the championship, yes they have been to the final 4 more than twice, but stil .... their fans are not happy campers the past 24 months.

 

[tjreese]

There is a time for the big picture discussion regarding the coach. It is his program, his players, his philosophies, and his record.
But people rehashing the same arguments after each and every loss grows tiresome. To me it is far more interesting and constructive to discuss the finer points and constructive criticisms within the constraints of what this team and its players are realistically capable of than to bitch about why we don't have a PG who can do this or that or why we don't have a dominant playmaker.

now you are talking basketball and THAT is what I like!

 

[mkotyuk]

excellent point folks. By the way, I agree with most that Coach Painter is a pretty good coach for us. Whether he is elite is still up for debate. He has the chance to prove that. Overall, I am glad he is our coach. If we fired him, I believe there is a much bigger than chance we would end up with somebody worse than we would someone better.

That said, I just have a fundamental problem with people who simultaneously blame students while defending the coach. It smirks of tribal hypocrisy and rubs me off the wrong way. If we we want to discuss specific things people didn't do well in a particular game - coach and/or students, I am game with that as long as it is done respectfully to both coach and students.

Tjreese, agree with most of your post except some of the student-teacher bits. A great teacher inspires even students to learn and can make a helluva difference.

 

[tjreese]

excellent point folks. By the way, I agree with most that Coach Painter is a pretty good coach for us. Whether he is elite is still up for debate. He has the chance to prove that. Overall, I am glad he is our coach. If we fired him, I believe there is a much bigger than chance we would end up with somebody worse than we would someone better.

That said, I just have a fundamental problem with people who simultaneously blame students while defending the coach. It smirks of tribal hypocrisy and rubs me off the wrong way. If we we want to discuss specific things people didn't do well in a particular game - coach and/or students, I am game with that as long as it is done respectfully to both coach and students.

Tjreese, agree with most of your post except some of the student-teacher bits. A great teacher inspires even students to learn and can make a helluva difference.

Absolutely...THAT can happen. Exhibit 1... Jaime Escalante Exhibit 2...Marva Collins

I have the original study that led to TVAAS as a statistical mentor for me many years ago was Robert McLean who pioneer with Bill here http://tn.chalkbeat.org/2015/06/09/...eceive-national-education-award/#.VsNKLfkrKCg

I think a teacher can be HUGE! However, most of the minimal competency tests and such are more aligned with students than teacher...although teachers through faddish practices can absolutely be destructive to learning..such as the NCTM of 1989. Here is a great book on the fads historically that continually get pushed in ed schools...Amazon product ASIN 0684844176 the first reviewer I used to share emails with and the fourth (Richard) is a FB and cyber friend for a few decades. I don't want to change this to an educational thread, but I don't want you to misunderstand my comments relative to education either

 

[mkotyuk]

IMO it is very wrong to pick on kids who are getting something for free that I gladly paid for and to be clear I am not a Matt Painter fan; for a lot of good reasons. The fact that he played at Purdue means very little to me as opposed to his ability to do his job. Matt said when they pulled that prank with Missouri he was here to win championships. He was here to win championships, we got none. Will we win the B1G this year, NO. Although we could win the B1G tournament it appears less and less likely. Will we get to a final four this year, again appears less and less likely.

All you Painter heads seem to be the same, wait till next year, wait till we get this player, it's not Matt's fault its the players. Well Matt pulled AJ from the game against Michigan to yell at him and what happened, MI goes on a run and we lose, hope Matt feels better.

Do we get better as the season goes on?
Do we play our best in the big games?
Does our coach get the best out of his players?
Does the coach create an environment where it is OK to fail if you are trying hard?
Does the coach pick the recruits?
Does the coach pick who is playing and who sits?
Does our coach know how to recruit a point guard?
Does the coach know how to draw up a play that is executed properly in critical times?

We seem to be out played by many of our opponents even when we win. Of course we always get to listen to Mattie yell "MOVE" while we are on offense I guess that makes the losses worthwhile.

The reason we do not win more is COACHING or the lack of it.

 

[FirstDownB]

We seem to be out played by many of our opponents even when we win.

What does this even mean?? I'd really like to know which of the 20 losing opponents 'outplayed' Purdue and by what measure.

 

[Do Dah Day]

The reason we do not win more is COACHING or the lack of it.

There are so many assumptions in this post that it is impossible to address them all. I will say that assuming the coach chooses the recruits is tough to support. He chooses who he makes offers to and chooses who he and his assistants spend more time on, but the recruit chooses which offer to accept. And often for totally illogical reasons. Or reasons that PU simply could not provide regardless of the coach. Based on the the point guards we have recruited the past few years, some of which we have gotten, some we have not, but that is not based on not recruiting good ones, I would say he does know how to recruit a PG.

There are also some things to consider when suggesting the Painter be fired. The first one is what signal that sends to other coaches. A signal that clearly says we have very high expectations since CMP has not done too badly in the unemotional analysis of his career. Therefore, what chance will a new coach be given? Is he looking at hopelessly unrealistic expectations. If so, why go there? Now, who is a great coach that is now in a position in which PU would be a step up? The list is very short. What are the real Las Vegas, intelligent, unemotion-based odds that we would get someone better? My opinion is very, very slim.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

All I can say is that this is a strange year in college basketball. The top teams in the country all have 3 or 4 losses. The top teams in our conference have 4 and 5 losses. We have 6. No dominant team has emerged, but there are a hell of a lot of good ones out there.

Purdue's a good team. We're not great. I don't know that the expectation to go from a 9 seed up to a 1 or 2 seed was realistic considering what most folks thought had to happen to get there:

- Johnny Hill proved to be Octeus 2.0. That hasn't happened. He's been out played by PJT, who is solid, and will likely always be solid for better or for worse. Point guard hasn't been a marked weakness of this team, but it's certainly not a strength.
- Our shooters had to finally emerge. They haven't. They're inconsistent, and Stephens was showing flashes of being a more complete player before his issue arose. That's been a tough blow to deal with, but the 2s and 3s have been disappointing overall.
- Biggie had to play at a high level to make the shift of Edwards to the 3 work. He has, and he hasn't. More often than not, and certainly in the Michigan game, teams have taken advantage of their matchup more than we've taken advantage of our matchup at the 4.
- Hammons and Haas had to be dominant. For the most part, they are.

So things haven't gone ideally, thus our results aren't ideal. None of that means we can't put together a run where our shooters all start hitting and Biggie figures things out (turnovers, shot selection, effort) and do something special. I wouldn't bet on it, only because it's unlikely that three or four things we haven't seen with any consistency are all of a sudden going to emerge all at the same time.

Our best lineup, in my opinion, is a mirror of last year's: a 5, Edwards, Davis, Mathias, PJT. For the most part, those guys are all a little bit better than last year. If you look at it through that perspective, and add in the fact that the other four guys that play regularly are all a little bit better than last year, and then subtract Octeus, you get a team that's a little bit better than last year... and that's pretty much exactly where we are.

It's disappointing, but that doesn't mean we suck, it doesn't mean the coach sucks, and it doesn't mean the players suck. It means we're a good team that needs to get better at a bunch of stuff and is running out of time to do it this year.

Oh, and calling for the coach's head in a season where they'll probably win 28 games is pretty silly, if you ask me.

 

[Do Dah Day]

All I can say is that this is a strange year in college basketball. The top teams in the country all have 3 or 4 losses. The top teams in our conference have 4 and 5 losses. We have 6. No dominant team has emerged, but there are a hell of a lot of good ones out there.

Purdue's a good team. We're not great. I don't know that the expectation to go from a 9 seed up to a 1 or 2 seed was realistic considering what most folks thought had to happen to get there:

- Johnny Hill proved to be Octeus 2.0. That hasn't happened. He's been out played by PJT, who is solid, and will likely always be solid for better or for worse. Point guard hasn't been a marked weakness of this team, but it's certainly not a strength.
- Our shooters had to finally emerge. They haven't. They're inconsistent, and Stephens was showing flashes of being a more complete player before his issue arose. That's been a tough blow to deal with, but the 2s and 3s have been disappointing overall.
- Biggie had to play at a high level to make the shift of Edwards to the 3 work. He has, and he hasn't. More often than not, and certainly in the Michigan game, teams have taken advantage of their matchup more than we've taken advantage of our matchup at the 4.
- Hammons and Haas had to be dominant. For the most part, they are.

So things haven't gone ideally, thus our results aren't ideal. None of that means we can't put together a run where our shooters all start hitting and Biggie figures things out (turnovers, shot selection, effort) and do something special. I wouldn't bet on it, only because it's unlikely that three or four things we haven't seen with any consistency are all of a sudden going to emerge all at the same time.

Our best lineup, in my opinion, is a mirror of last year's: a 5, Edwards, Davis, Mathias, PJT. For the most part, those guys are all a little bit better than last year. If you look at it through that perspective, and add in the fact that the other four guys that play regularly are all a little bit better than last year, and then subtract Octeus, you get a team that's a little bit better than last year... and that's pretty much exactly where we are.

It's disappointing, but that doesn't mean we suck, it doesn't mean the coach sucks, and it doesn't mean the players suck. It means we're a good team that needs to get better at a bunch of stuff and is running out of time to do it this year.

Oh, and calling for the coach's head in a season where they'll probably win 28 games is pretty silly, if you ask me.

Excellent analysis. Well done and spot on.

 

[tjreese]

There are so many assumptions in this post that it is impossible to address them all. I will say that assuming the coach chooses the recruits is tough to support. He chooses who he makes offers to and chooses who he and his assistants spend more time on, but the recruit chooses which offer to accept. And often for totally illogical reasons. Or reasons that PU simply could not provide regardless of the coach. Based on the the point guards we have recruited the past few years, some of which we have gotten, some we have not, but that is not based on not recruiting good ones, I would say he does know how to recruit a PG.

There are also some things to consider when suggesting the Painter be fired. The first one is what signal that sends to other coaches. A signal that clearly says we have very high expectations since CMP has not done too badly in the unemotional analysis of his career. Therefore, what chance will a new coach be given? Is he looking at hopelessly unrealistic expectations. If so, why go there? Now, who is a great coach that is now in a position in which PU would be a step up? The list is very short. What are the real Las Vegas, intelligent, unemotion-based odds that we would get someone better? My opinion is very, very slim.

you save me so much typing...thank you

 

[BoilerDeac]

I enjoyed reading this. You are obviously closer to the program than most of us and insights like this are valuable. I have no first hand knowledge on this subject but your thoughts validate what I have sensed about Matt for years. He seems to have the respect and affection of his past and present players. It's not something that is outwardly obvious like Izzo for example, but it's there. You can hear it in some of the comments of the players like when Kendall said Painter wasn't a good coach, he's a great coach. Even Bryson had nothing negative to say when he made the decision to leave. I think most of us recognize and appreciate true honesty when we hear it. We may not like what we hear but if we truly believe it is coming from someone who has our best interests in mind, we can accept it, learn from it, and grow. And I believe that is what Matt gives his players on and off the court. Is he a perfect coach? Of course not. But he has his players backs and they have his.

Look, I get how important it is to have players backs, and how awesome it is that CMP is clearly a venerable figure among these players.

With that being said, that doesn't just excuse his repetitive mistakes, like having Swanigan guard Robert Carter or Zak Irvin, or leaving PJ in at home against Iowa. It's all great that he's a good, honest man, but, at the end of the day, we see the same mistakes made over and over again.

I get it, all coaches make mistakes, and no coach in the history of the world is perfect, but, over the years, it's clear that CMP has some deficiencies, and I'd like to see those get resolved, or at least improved upon.