Hunter interview

[tjreese]

At the same time though, Painter allowed his system to evolve to allow Biggie to play more as a stretch 5...which is really what he has been doing at the NBA level so far. He showed and was able to show while at Purdue to play a 4 role (freshman year) and then showed his growth in the role as a 5 who can work outside in.

Biggie and Rosie were sold on being a 4, but he was never promised (I seem to recall) that he wouldn't see time at the 5. Traditionally a 4 is effective on teh blocks and out to 15...biggie just extended that a bit farther. Any coach worth a damn (and Matt certainly is) lets all players do "what they can really do" since that coach was the most effective offense possible. Biggie worked to make himself a ball player...and Matt saw the improvement and let others see it as well

 

[Boilersss]

At the same time though, Painter allowed his system to evolve to allow Biggie to play more as a stretch 5...which is really what he has been doing at the NBA level so far. He showed and was able to show while at Purdue to play a 4 role (freshman year) and then showed his growth in the role as a 5 who can work outside in.

I agree. My point wasn't at all a knock against CMP. I think he handle that situation very well. My point was that sometimes things are said in recruiting that don't always come true. I wouldn't call it lying, and I don't think Biggie or CMP would call it lying either.

 

[TC4THREE]

It's ridiculous to tell someone you can guarantee their future. Ethical people would say you are a liar or full of crap. Either way you would be lying. Call it salesmanship - I will stick with lying.

Agree with this.

You can say...

Purdue has had x players come through ranked at a certain level and they've all been stars at the college level and received guaranteed contracts in the NBA. If you work as hard as those guys worked and listen to the coaches, there's no reason you can't be a star here and play professionally as well.

That combines the truth with the upside and I'd be stunned if that's not what the pitch actually sounds like. I have zero issues if the coach is honest that hard work is required and all playing time is earned. Those things are going to be true at any program and should be evident to anyone with half a brain anyway so if those scare a recruit off then I'm not sure they were worth having to begin with.

 

[Boilersss]

Agree with this.

You can say...

Purdue has had x players come through ranked at a certain level and they've all been stars at the college level and received guaranteed contracts in the NBA. If you work as hard as those guys worked and listen to the coaches, there's no reason you can't be a star here and play professionally as well.

That combines the truth with the upside and I'd be stunned if that's not what the pitch actually sounds like. I have zero issues if the coach is honest that hard work is required and all playing time is earned. Those things are going to be true at any program and should be evident to anyone with half a brain anyway so if those scare a recruit off then I'm not sure they were worth having to begin with.

The problem with this is that the sales pitch is exactly the same one that the blue bloods are pitching. The difference is when talking about "x players have gone pro" the blue bloods point to multiple lottery picks each year from their programs. The things that Purdue can offer that the blue bloods can't is mega playing time right away, and the opportunity to be "The Guy" from the start. Purdue should be selling the areas that make them stand out even against the blue bloods.

 

[TC4THREE]

The problem with this is that the sales pitch is exactly the same one that the blue bloods are pitching. The difference is when talking about "x players have gone pro" the blue bloods point to multiple lottery picks each year from their programs. The things that Purdue can offer that the blue bloods can't is mega playing time right away, and the opportunity to be "The Guy" from the start. Purdue should be selling the areas that make them stand out even against the blue bloods.

I'm sure that the "opportunity" is sold. That's not the same as guaranteeing a player will be a star or guaranteeing they will start if they can't earn it.

 

[Boilersss]

I'm sure that the "opportunity" is sold. That's not the same as guaranteeing a player will be a star or guaranteeing they will start if they can't earn it.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree with recruiting tactics.

 

[BoilerGal74]

Every commit we have had recently says CMP told them "If I come in and work hard, I could compete for playing time right away."

At the same time you hear Romeo Langford talk about IU's approach and says "They are really selling me on being a star at Indiana. They are telling me If I go to Indiana, everybody is going to love me."

Neither approach are lies.

No but one is much more honest....There is a big difference.... Painter isn't looking for prima Donna's and if they have to be told they will be a star to get their attention then let'em go. Kids know if they are that good and should be looking for someone to make them better- not be their biggest fan. Plus remember ole Tommy Boy...." You remind me of Dwayne Wade!!" Eventually a kid will recognize the line.

 

[pig1960]

The problem with this is that the sales pitch is exactly the same one that the blue bloods are pitching. The difference is when talking about "x players have gone pro" the blue bloods point to multiple lottery picks each year from their programs. The things that Purdue can offer that the blue bloods can't is mega playing time right away, and the opportunity to be "The Guy" from the start. Purdue should be selling the areas that make them stand out even against the blue bloods.

Exactly which Blue Blood are you talking about? You think the 5 stars are not hitting the court regularly at Duke, UK or Kansas? We must be watching different sports. Hell sometimes they start 4 and 5 freshman. True elite players are going to be on the court getting mega playing time.

 

[Boilersss]

Exactly which Blue Blood are you talking about? You think the 5 stars are not hitting the court regularly at Duke, UK or Kansas? We must be watching different sports. Hell sometimes they start 4 and 5 freshman. True elite players are going to be on the court getting mega playing time.

Will you clarify this post? I'm not sure I understand the discussion. Did I say they weren't working hard at those 3 schools? I said the opposite. Of course true elite players will be getting mega playing time. That's exactly why it isn't lying to a recruit to tell him he would be getting mega playing time at Purdue.

 

[Boilersss]

No but one is much more honest....There is a big difference.... Painter isn't looking for prima Donna's and if they have to be told they will be a star to get their attention then let'em go. Kids know if they are that good and should be looking for someone to make them better- not be their biggest fan. Plus remember ole Tommy Boy...." You remind me of Dwayne Wade!!" Eventually a kid will recognize the line.

Those "Prima Donna's" are the players that win championships. Since 1978 only two teams have won the championship without a McDonald's All-American.

I always find it ironic when posters here mock Tom Crean's success at IU. He has had the same results (2 Big Ten championships, 3 Sweet 16s) as Painter. Crean had the success, because he had elite talent. Painter has had the success, because he is a great in game coach.

Imagine if Painter had elite talent....

 

[pig1960]

Will you clarify this post? I'm not sure I understand the discussion. Did I say they weren't working hard at those 3 schools? I said the opposite. Of course true elite players will be getting mega playing time. That's exactly why it isn't lying to a recruit to tell him he would be getting mega playing time at Purdue.

Now you're just fvcking with me right?

From your own damned post "the things that Purdue can offer that blue bloods can't is mega playing time".

I just responded that elite players will get playing time (a lot) at the blue bloods. Where did I mention anything about working hard or not working hard?

Sweet baby Jeebus are you drunk?

 

[pig1960]

I gotta admire the simple mindedness of some regarding recruiting. It's easy as pie. If old Matt would just follow my 4 simple actions for recruiting success.

 

[Boilersss]

Now you're just fvcking with me right?

From your own damned post "the things that Purdue can offer that blue bloods can't is mega playing time".

I just responded that elite players will get playing time (a lot) at the blue bloods. Where did I mention anything about working hard or not working hard?

Sweet baby Jeebus are you drunk?

Ah thanks for clarifying. By mega playing time, I'm talking 25+ min/gm. Freshmen at blue bloods can get those minutes, but those are the elite of the elite (top 10 players). The elite players I'm talking about for Purdue are in the 15-40 range (think JJJ, Wilkes, Malik Williams). These players likely won't get 25 min/gm at their respective schools. However, at Purdue they would likely all get 25 + min/gm. The big point is that Purdue should be selling players on being "The Guy".

 

[Boilersss]

I gotta admire the simple mindedness of some regarding recruiting. It's easy as pie. If old Matt would just follow my 4 simple actions for recruiting success.

No one said it was easy. It is clear that the current pitch is not working with elite recruits. I want Purdue to win a championship more than anything. That requires getting McDonald's All-American type talent.

 

[TC4THREE]

The big point is that Purdue should be selling players on being "The Guy".

You don't think we do?

 

[Boilersss]

You don't think we do?

We might. There isn't evidence that we have (That I remember). There is plenty of evidence that we say "If you come in and bust your ass, you could get playing time early."

 

[TC4THREE]

No one said it was easy. It is clear that the current pitch is not working with elite recruits. I want Purdue to win a championship more than anything. That requires getting McDonald's All-American type talent.

Have you ever considered that there can be other factors than the "pitch"? Do you really think there is some magic speech any coach can give that will land him a recruit? If so I suggest you discover it, bottle it, and sell it.

 

[TC4THREE]

We might. There isn't evidence that we have (That I remember). There is plenty of evidence that we say "If you come in and bust your ass, you could get playing time early."

And because we know this is said, you assume that's the full extent of the oh-so-important "pitch"?

 

[TC4THREE]

I seem to recall CMP commenting before that we feature our best players in our offense, at any position. He just wants to make sure we start with our best option and build our offense around that. In other words, he's selling these guys on coming in and being that #1 option. The part you appear not to like is that he's not promising them that they are that #1 option before they sign.

Case and point, Caleb Swanigan was not our most efficient offensive player as a freshman.... Hammons was. Dare I say he was one of our worst options that year when you factor in turnovers and bad shots as a frosh. He worked his ass off and developed a consistent jumper and got better at passing and he was that guy as a sophomore. When he became THE GUY, he got the role of THE GUY. That's the opportunity I'm sure Matt Painter would promise every recruit. When you become the best option on the team, our offense will start with you. That's not always going to be the case right away for a freshman...even one as highly regarded as Swanigan. Yet you want CMP to insinuate that he can be THE GUY before he earns it.

 

[tjreese]

Those "Prima Donna's" are the players that win championships. Since 1978 only two teams have won the championship without a McDonald's All-American.

I always find it ironic when posters here mock Tom Crean's success at IU. He has had the same results (2 Big Ten championships, 3 Sweet 16s) as Painter. Crean had the success, because he had elite talent. Painter has had the success, because he is a great in game coach.

Imagine if Painter had elite talent....

but recruiting is not solely on the coach. IU due to teh media and many grads staying in state has a leg up on Purdue day in and day out just because it is IU. YOu seem, there a lot more dumb people than smart people...

 

[Boilersss]

Have you ever considered that there can be other factors than the "pitch"? Do you really think there is some magic speech any coach can give that will land him a recruit? If so I suggest you discover it, bottle it, and sell it.

I obviously understand there are other factors. What are some of the reasons schools like Illinois, Missouri, or Maryland can get elite talent consistently? I don't see many differences as far as location (for missouri and Illinois), history/tradition, campus life, or facilities.

 

[tjreese]

I obviously understand there are other factors. What are some of the reasons schools like Illinois, Missouri, or Maryland can get elite talent consistently? I don't see many differences as far as location (for missouri and Illinois), history/tradition, campus life, or facilities.

One consideration is that Indiana is not a high population state and has IU, Purdue, Notre Dame and Butler in it.

 

[Boilersss]

but recruiting is not solely on the coach. IU due to teh media and many grads staying in state has a leg up on Purdue day in and day out just because it is IU. YOu seem, there a lot more dumb people than smart people...

I know the coach/pitch is not the only factor, but they are probably the biggest factors. For example, Alabama basketball was nothing before Avery Johnson got there. Since he became coach, they have reeled in a lot of elite talent. Another example would be IU with Langford. Langford wanted no part of IU when Crean was the coach, but now IU finds themselves in the drivers seat with Miller as the head coach. None of the other factors changed in either scenario.

 

[tjreese]

I know the coach/pitch is not the only factor, but they are probably the biggest factors. For example, Alabama basketball was nothing before Avery Johnson got there. Since he became coach, they have reeled in a lot of elite talent. Another example would be IU with Langford. Langford wanted no part of IU when Crean was the coach, but now IU finds themselves in the drivers seat with Miller as the head coach. None of the other factors changed in either scenario.

Maybe Langford wanted IU, but didn't want to go there with Crean there? I mean there are different outcome reasonings. I don't doubt that a coach is "THE BIGGEST reason for a recruit. I just wonder if it is more than the other variables... Those thoughts are entirely different...

 

[pig1960]

I obviously understand there are other factors. What are some of the reasons schools like Illinois, Missouri, or Maryland can get elite talent consistently? I don't see many differences as far as location (for missouri and Illinois), history/tradition, campus life, or facilities.

I guess I'm just ignorant..,Illinois. Maryland and Mo consistently get 5* talent? Maryland seems relatively good...Illinois and Missouri have been dumpster fires. They must be really really bad at utilizing talent. Purdue consistently beats Illinois and certainly competes well with Md year in year out.

 

[Boilersss]

One consideration is that Indiana is not a high population state and has IU, Purdue, Notre Dame and Butler in it.

Are you saying Purdue gets less talent in state because of the other s

Maybe Langford wanted IU, but didn't want to go there with Crean there? I mean there are different outcome reasonings. I don't doubt that a coach is "THE BIGGEST reason for a recruit. I just wonder if it is more than the other variables... Those thoughts are entirely different...

I agree that they are different thoughts. To me Coach/pitch are the biggest factors and outweigh all other factors. Larry Brown goes to SMU and starts bringing in talent.... granted he probably cheated his ass off. I think it's possible for Purdue to bring in elite talent consistently. I don't know what the solution is to make it happen, but given similar programs and the recruiting successes they have had, it's possible. We all know Painter is a great in game coach. If he had top talent to go along with it we would be set.

 

[tjreese]

Are you saying Purdue gets less talent in state because of the other s

I agree that they are different thoughts. To me Coach/pitch are the biggest factors and outweigh all other factors. Larry Brown goes to SMU and starts bringing in talent.... granted he probably cheated his ass off. I think it's possible for Purdue to bring in elite talent consistently. I don't know what the solution is to make it happen, but given similar programs and the recruiting successes they have had, it's possible. We all know Painter is a great in game coach. If he had top talent to go along with it we would be set.

I don't disagree at all that Purdue rarely has more talent than IU, Mich, MSU, OSU, Ill and Maryland and that given the same talent, Matt would really get things going. I think there is a lag due to the budget and what happened after the Baby Boilers. Who knows how it would shake out had Robbie not hurt his knee? I just consider "now" the starting point for recruiting comparison after the budget and coaches leaving. I really think Purdue was moved back a few steps due to that...just like football...

 

[Boilersss]

I guess I'm just ignorant..,Illinois. Maryland and Mo consistently get 5* talent? Maryland seems relatively good...Illinois and Missouri have been dumpster fires. They must be really really bad at utilizing talent. Purdue consistently beats Illinois and certainly competes well with Md year in year out.

This year Missouri has two 5* and a top 40 4*. Illinois in the last 5 years has Leron Black, Coleman-Lands, Kendrick Nunn, and will be getting 5* Ayo Dosunmu this weekend when he announces. Maryland obviously gets big time talent.

You are correct, Purdue does beat those teams. As I have now said 15 times, Painter is a great in game coach which leads to wins. If he had elite talent to go along with it we would be set.

 

[Boilersss]

I don't disagree at all that Purdue rarely has more talent than IU, Mich, MSU, OSU, Ill and Maryland and that given the same talent, Matt would really get things going. I think there is a lag due to the budget and what happened after the Baby Boilers. Who knows how it would shake out had Robbie not hurt his knee? I just consider "now" the starting point for recruiting comparison after the budget and coaches leaving. I really think Purdue was moved back a few steps due to that...just like football...

I agree with that. Now Painter has a good budget, a good coaching staff, and an AD who supports him. It's time to go fishing!

 

[tjreese]

I agree with that. Now Painter has a good budget, a good coaching staff, and an AD who supports him. It's time to go fishing!

...and I think we have seen a marked improvement. Wheeler has a high ceiling...Haarm's has a high ceiling...Nojel has high ceiling...I really like Hunter and think he will be a very good player as well...and see the hunger and ceiling with Dowuona...even Shasha will be very solid when a junior. I think everyone can see how much more improved the talent is since the budget increase...it just may be a little slower than some wish...but it has improved quite a bit...

 

[TC4THREE]

I obviously understand there are other factors. What are some of the reasons schools like Illinois, Missouri, or Maryland can get elite talent consistently? I don't see many differences as far as location (for missouri and Illinois), history/tradition, campus life, or facilities.

There are infinite factors.

 

[pig1960]

I know the coach/pitch is not the only factor, but they are probably the biggest factors. For example, Alabama basketball was nothing before Avery Johnson got there. Since he became coach, they have reeled in a lot of elite talent. Another example would be IU with Langford. Langford wanted no part of IU when Crean was the coach, but now IU finds themselves in the drivers seat with Miller as the head coach. None of the other factors changed in either scenario.

Alabama basketball was still nothing last I checked. Zo got elite talent at UT and Cal and...zippo. Not sure that will change at Mo but betting not. We went down this road with Keady and it turned out badly. In my view Purdue can get a ship without selling out its core values. I just saw the photo op from NY of the 4 seniors. I have to admit I am quite proud of all those guys and thrilled they represent Purdue. Also proud that to this point that the coach and the team represent my Alma Mater well. I couldn't say that if I was a UL or UNC or Arizona fan (and others).

 

[Boilersss]

...and I think we have seen a marked improvement. Wheeler has a high ceiling...Haarm's has a high ceiling...Nojel has high ceiling...I really like Hunter and think he will be a very good player as well...and see the hunger and ceiling with Dowuona...even Shasha will be very solid when a junior. I think everyone can see how much more improved the talent is since the budget increase...it just may be a little slower than some wish...but it has improved quite a bit...

I don't disagree, there is a ton of upside to our recruits. However, I want Purdue to win the championship. As I have posted already, since 1978 only two teams have won the championship without a McDonald's All-American. We need those types of players to mix in with our project/high upside guys.

 

[Boilersss]

Alabama basketball was still nothing last I checked. Zo got elite talent at UT and Cal and...zippo. Not sure that will change at Mo but betting not. We went down this road with Keady and it turned out badly. In my view Purdue can get a ship without selling out its core values. I just saw the photo op from NY of the 4 seniors. I have to admit I am quite proud of all those guys and thrilled they represent Purdue. Also proud that to this point that the coach and the team represent my Alma Mater well. I couldn't say that if I was a UL or UNC or Arizona fan (and others).

Zo's success has nothing to do with my argument. I love the 4 seniors we have as well. If this team had Biggie still, then we would certainly be championship contenders. I'm not saying we need a team full of elite players. We need an elite player or two to compliment our experienced guys.

 

[Wolegib]

I'm going to ask a leading question. I believe we all agree Painter sold Biggie on coming to Purdue because we had Haas, and he would play PF instead of center, and he bought the sales pitch.

What nobody has talked about is this. Do you believe Painter gave Biggie that same sales pitch as mentioned above - if you play hard ... blah, blah blah........ or do you think he told Biggie we have an opening at PF, and he would start at PF from opening day ??

Do you believe Painter gave JJJ the same sales pitch he gave every other recruit?

on the other hand, I truly believe Painter is probably one of the few coaches who would actually tell a recruit, yes, I' m recruiting player X, and he's my first choice, but if he signs elsewhere, you're my next choice if you're willing to wait. I wonder how many other coaches would be that honest with a player telling him they are a plan B.

 

[Boilersss]

I'm going to ask a leading question. I believe we all agree Painter sold Biggie on coming to Purdue because we had Haas, and he would play PF instead of center, and he bought the sales pitch.

What nobody has talked about is this. Do you believe Painter gave Biggie that same sales pitch as mentioned above - if you play hard ... blah, blah blah........ or do you think he told Biggie we have an opening at PF, and he would start at PF from opening day ??

Do you believe Painter gave JJJ the same sales pitch he gave every other recruit?

on the other hand, I truly believe Painter is probably one of the few coaches who would actually tell a recruit, yes, I' m recruiting player X, and he's my first choice, but if he signs elsewhere, you're my next choice if you're willing to wait. I wonder how many other coaches would be that honest with a player telling him they are a plan B.

To your first question: Yes, I believe Painter gave Biggie and JJJ the same pitch as the others (I have zero proof of this, and this is purely speculation).

As far as your second point, I would find it hard to believe Painter would say he favored another recruit. I doubt he tells a recruit they have a spot if "player x" commits elsewhere. He probably tells both "Player A" and "Player B" we have one scholarship to give for this position. The first one to take it, gets it.

 

[Do Dah Day]

No but one is much more honest....There is a big difference.... Painter isn't looking for prima Donna's and if they have to be told they will be a star to get their attention then let'em go. Kids know if they are that good and should be looking for someone to make them better- not be their biggest fan. Plus remember ole Tommy Boy...." You remind me of Dwayne Wade!!" Eventually a kid will recognize the line.

MIchael Jordan would not have been as good as he was if Phil Jackson had not been his coach AND if he had not respected Phil and listened to him.

Prima Donna's at times are not listeners.

 

[tjreese]

To your first question: Yes, I believe Painter gave Biggie and JJJ the same pitch as the others (I have zero proof of this, and this is purely speculation).

As far as your second point, I would find it hard to believe Painter would say he favored another recruit. I doubt he tells a recruit they have a spot if "player x" commits elsewhere. He probably tells both "Player A" and "Player B" we have one scholarship to give for this position. The first one to take it, gets it.

I'm going to agree and add one. I say he tells Biggie and JJJ the same thing..and both were good enough to know they would play. A coach will not be successful long if he promises time to a player in high school. An outstanding player already knows he will play though. I will also agree that on "many" he will offer to a few and tell them all the first one gets it. Where I'll add is that I believe there are times that he will tell a kid that there are some in front of him and that he might get a lot more time at another school that may needs what he brings a bit more...but if he is still available in ???? Purdue may reconsider...

 

[BoilerGal74]

Those "Prima Donna's" are the players that win championships. Since 1978 only two teams have won the championship without a McDonald's All-American.

I always find it ironic when posters here mock Tom Crean's success at IU. He has had the same results (2 Big Ten championships, 3 Sweet 16s) as Painter. Crean had the success, because he had elite talent. Painter has had the success, because he is a great in game coach.

Imagine if Painter had elite talent....

No...they are not the same. Purdue has NEVER had a basketball Coach where the AD turned down a home game in a tourney because we were embarrassed the fans would be booing him at home on home court.
We have never had the laughing stock of the B1G as our Basketball Coach.. Nor whom will most probably be the laughing stock of the B1G for years to come. Sorry, not the same at all... Kind of like those Harley Davidson t-shirts, "If I have to explain it you'll never understand".

 

[Boilersss]

No...they are not the same. Purdue has NEVER had a basketball Coach where the AD turned down a home game in a tourney because we were embarrassed the fans would be booing him at home on home court.
We have never had the laughing stock of the B1G as our Basketball Coach.. Nor whom will most probably be the laughing stock of the B1G for years to come. Sorry, not the same at all... Kind of like those Harley Davidson t-shirts, "If I have to explain it you'll never understand".

I wasn't comparing their character? I was comparing their success.