Hazell buyout

[BBG]

I wonder if the lost revenue over the last 2 or 3 years was more than CDH's buyout.

 

[banshee90]

I looked at Hazell's contract again today. His base comp is a meager $250k, with over $1.45M for "supplemental annual stipend/talent fee". The real boner move in all of the contract stuff is that Purdue apparently deemed all of Hazell's comp to be fixed. So when the University's contract says it will pay the remaining "fixed compensation" over the remaining term if they fire him, they're on the hook for oodles and gobs of money.

I can appreciate the balance of needing fixed and incentive-laden comp, but I wonder if there should be another 3rd category - it's not incentive-based in the sense that you need to hit metrics to earn it, rather the only metric needed to gain it is to still be employed. In other words, just find some other category to preclude it from a component of "fixed compensation" category such that it isn't included in the balance of the "remaining fixed compensation" upon termination. And if you had to, you could ratchet up the base comp so as to make the buyout still be attractive for a coach, but for crying out loud, try to get it somewhere under 100%.

As a point of comparison, I also looked up Wilson's contract at IU; and it's written exactly as noted above. His deal is for up to $1.2M per year for 7 years, but only $500k is noted as base salary in his contract, and only "base salary" is noted as included in the buyout calc if the university terms him without cause. Obviously, IU football is hardly the program most should aspire to, but on-field results aside, that appears to be a better way to draft a contract (assuming that it could be accomplished at a school that has had more success in football than IU, which would be nearly all of them).

the 250k I think is the max salary a Purdue employee can make so they add the next bit to get it to 2mil

 

[banshee90]

Yeah, zero chance of this happening. And even if there was, we should never use endowment funds for sports. That's not why the endowment is there.

Duh you don't directly use endowment money. You put your hands in the endowment money to pay for academic stuff whose budget got smaller due to the buyout. Like how Purdue academics doesn't take JPC money they just take revenue from the Athletics. You better believe that if the JPC had a huge surplus Purdue Academic would be stealing more B1G tv deal money.

 

[Statey]

The $1.45 is actually guaranteed and standard boiler plate. I don't remember if is the PAA or similar but, almost all past contracts have had that. It has something to do with not showing too much as state part funding......something like that. You don't want to show him as making more than Daniels and Burke. Kinda like "outside" consulting. Very normal.

That makes sense... I do think it's entirely negotiable though what amounts get classified under the "fixed compensation" classification under his contract (as evidenced by the Wilson contract which has the same end-of-contract guaranteed money, but excludes some of the comp; in other words, the pool on which the guarantee is made is simply less than the full boat).

 

[cprh9u]

This whole thread sucks

 

[pboiler18]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but why on earth would DH want to trade some guaranteed money for anything? He's guaranteed all of his non-incentive comp for the next 3 full years. He's going to finish this year with another lousy record; are you suggesting that Purdue would be willing to extend him if he was willing to negotiate down his annual buyout amount? More years would be the only thing I could think of that Purdue could offer at this point... but it would also be one of the stupidest things I can think of that Purdue could offer at this point!

If I'm Hazell (or his attorney), there is no way I'd restructure my contract unless it somehow offered a greater amount of guaranteed money. Period. In this particular situation, there'd be no point in signing an 10-year extension in exchange for your buyout being reduced... well, unless you're getting a big annual raise and you think you're still going to be the coach in 8 or 9 years, but there's no way Hazell's attorney is giving him that kind of advice right now.

You say that....but Hazell still thinks this is his long-term home and benefits greatly from being here as long as possible....especially since the ominous start. So Hazell is most likely here another year....don't you think he'd want an extension to point to recruits and say "Hey, you're the guy who can help me turn this around AND i'm going to be here your entire career!" That's not worth nothing....

IF Hazell's year ends poorly and MB comes to the table and says...let's restructure and extend you but now it's going to be more favorable to US instead of you guaranteed compensation wise...he'd be a fool to NOT do it. You know why? Because right there it shows that Hazell is only looking out for his interests and not Purdue's. At that point, you show him the door and go look for a new coach. Sure, he gets paid out a large sum of money....but he likely is never a P5 head coach again. That's gotta hurt for a guy who realistically has 10+ years of a career left. He's set for life no doubt, but at the same time, he'd likely be working sub $200k assistant jobs for the next 10 years.

Whereas if he restructures, by some miracle turns the ship around (say after firing his pee-wee league cordinators and getting some decent ones in) he could potentially be making $2.25 million dollars for the next 10+ years instead of dropping a 0 on that.

Here's a hint on why this is a possibility. Purdue did this to their last coach and he accepted and was extended....

If you're Hazell's agent....I think you tell him to play the long game and forgo a few million up front for the potential prospect that you make tens of millions more over your career in the long run.

 

[bonefish1]

Yeah, zero chance of this happening. And even if there was, we should never use endowment funds for sports. That's not why the endowment is there.

I'm gonna disagree with you on that one. I think the athletics programs are every bit as important as the university's academic/research mission. Doing well in the high profile sports generates more donations, applications, and free publicity outside of anything done on the academic side.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

I'm gonna disagree with you on that one. I think the athletics programs are every bit as important as the university's academic/research mission. Doing well in the high profile sports generates more donations, applications, and free publicity outside of anything done on the academic side.

I can respect your opinion but I still disagree with it. And I am confident there's no chance we would tap the endowment to cover a buy out.

 

[Redhotfill]

Boilers1975 said: ↑
I've asked several times on this board with no response. Who else was talking/ looking at Hazell? Why did we pay him 2m when he was only making 350,000 ?
Burke should be demoted or dismissed immediately.
Click to expand...

So lets do some simple math:
$2.2M / 350k = 6.28 6.28 x 6 years= 37.68 So Burke offered this guy the equivalent of 37.68 years of his then annual pay and the opportunity to move up to a B1G School, to sign with us WTF! Really, really who the hell is worth that kind of bump in pay JUST TO SIGN and collect a paycheck? Burke must be senile.

 

[Statey]

You say that....but Hazell still thinks this is his long-term home and benefits greatly from being here as long as possible....especially since the ominous start. So Hazell is most likely here another year....don't you think he'd want an extension to point to recruits and say "Hey, you're the guy who can help me turn this around AND i'm going to be here your entire career!" That's not worth nothing....

I have no idea whether DH views the greater Lafayette ares his long-term home or not. As far as "benefiting greatly" from being "here", where is here? This school?... this town? Regardless, I don't know how he benefits here any more than any other town he could live and work. Does he have some other connection to northern Indiana that perhaps I don't know about?

IF Hazell's year ends poorly and MB comes to the table and says...let's restructure and extend you but now it's going to be more favorable to US instead of you guaranteed compensation wise...he'd be a fool to NOT do it.

This, I just cannot agree with. You say that the restructuring would be favorable to Purdue, and at the same time, say that Hazell would be a fool not to do it. I'm not sure how this can really be viewed as a no-brainer for both sides.

You know why? Because right there it shows that Hazell is only looking out for his interests and not Purdue's.

So in order for Hazell to prove he's willing to complete the job he was hired to do, he has to renegotiate his contract to take less guaranteed money? You do realize he's still doing all the things that Purdue has asked him to do. Yes, the winning hasn't accompanied it, but technically - i.e. based on what's in his contract - he isn't paid to win games. Now certainly, not winning is often what gets guys fired, but winning isn't what his contract is paying him to do. If you're Hazell, and you're honoring the letter of your contract, why should you have to negotiate to Purdue's favor to prove your loyalty?

Whereas if he restructures, by some miracle turns the ship around (say after firing his pee-wee league cordinators and getting some decent ones in) he could potentially be making $2.25 million dollars for the next 10+ years instead of dropping a 0 on that.

Well, if by some miracle he turns it around this year or the next year or the next, he'll probably be given an extension anyway and make that same $2.25M figure you referenced. Again, if you're Hazell: advantage, current contract terms

If you're Hazell's agent....I think you tell him to play the long game and forgo a few million up front for the potential prospect that you make tens of millions more over your career in the long run.

I've never been an agent. It seems like a cool gig though. But if I'm playing one on this forum right now, I most definitely am not telling him the smart thing to do is "forgo a few million upfront for the potential" to make more down the road if he turns it around. Because if he turns it around, he'll make those same millions anyway. As you suggested, if he's a man of relatively simple means, his Purdue contract could easily set him and his family for life. If I'm his agent, I'm not telling him to put it on black and risk it all for the possibility of becoming more rich.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

There's no logical reason for DH to restructure his contract. He has all the leverage.

 

[pboiler18]

I have no idea whether DH views the greater Lafayette ares his long-term home or not. As far as "benefiting greatly" from being "here", where is here? This school?... this town? Regardless, I don't know how he benefits here any more than any other town he could live and work. Does he have some other connection to northern Indiana that perhaps I don't know about?


This, I just cannot agree with. You say that the restructuring would be favorable to Purdue, and at the same time, say that Hazell would be a fool not to do it. I'm not sure how this can really be viewed as a no-brainer for both sides.


So in order for Hazell to prove he's willing to complete the job he was hired to do, he has to renegotiate his contract to take less guaranteed money? You do realize he's still doing all the things that Purdue has asked him to do. Yes, the winning hasn't accompanied it, but technically - i.e. based on what's in his contract - he isn't paid to win games. Now certainly, not winning is often what gets guys fired, but winning isn't what his contract is paying him to do. If you're Hazell, and you're honoring the letter of your contract, why should you have to negotiate to Purdue's favor to prove your loyalty?


Well, if by some miracle he turns it around this year or the next year or the next, he'll probably be given an extension anyway and make that same $2.25M figure you referenced. Again, if you're Hazell: advantage, current contract terms


I've never been an agent. It seems like a cool gig though. But if I'm playing one on this forum right now, I most definitely am not telling him the smart thing to do is "forgo a few million upfront for the potential" to make more down the road if he turns it around. Because if he turns it around, he'll make those same millions anyway. As you suggested, if he's a man of relatively simple means, his Purdue contract could easily set him and his family for life. If I'm his agent, I'm not telling him to put it on black and risk it all for the possibility of becoming more rich.

1. He benefits from being the coach at Purdue. That could end as early as January. Sure, he gets 3 more years of pay....but does he ever work for more than avg. assistants pay ever again? Not likely....

Look at Danny Hope. And Danny Hope did better than Hazell has done.

2. Of course Purdue wants to renegotiate. I think Hazell needs all the people in his camp that he can get at this time. If he doesn't renegotiate, he likely loses his job....sure, he gets paid....but I think he'd probably rather be a head football coach than get paid. His passion for coaching at some point will outweigh his lust for money....if hes a good one. He might not be.

3. I'm not advocating that Hazell take less up front money, Hope didn't take less up front money when he renegotiated. All he did was take an extension for recruiting purposes and roped into that extension was a reduction in his buyout. It was like a $2million buyout and got reduced to $1million or so with the next contract.

4. I can tell you aren't a sports business agent. Advocating that Hazell take the money and run is doing your client a disservice. Its assuring that he's fired as a loser...which sure, could happen anyhow....but its not giving him a chance to stick around and reverse the negatives of his P5 HC career. If Hazell goes now....would you hire him as a HC if you were ANY NCAA football program? I surely wouldn't.

What do you enjoy doing? Like, really enjoy doing? What would you give up to keep doing it at a high level? Maybe Hazell's is being a P5 head football coach. People do crazy things when you threaten to take away what they love doing. I'd give up a few million bucks for the chance to keep going on doing what I love with the opportunity to earn more in the future and not be kicked back down the ladder rungs a year or two or maybe 10 before I should be.

 

[pboiler18]

There's no logical reason for DH to restructure his contract. He has all the leverage.

It's not always all about the $$$$. Hazell got his already....and can take it and run. If he does, he's likely never a head coach in the NCAA again. That's something he's not likely to give up over a few million dollars.

Would you? Sure. Would he? I don't buy it.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

1. He benefits from being the coach at Purdue. That could end as early as January. Sure, he gets 3 more years of pay....but does he ever work for more than avg. assistants pay ever again? Not likely....

Look at Danny Hope. And Danny Hope did better than Hazell has done.

2. Of course Purdue wants to renegotiate. I think Hazell needs all the people in his camp that he can get at this time. If he doesn't renegotiate, he likely loses his job....sure, he gets paid....but I think he'd probably rather be a head football coach than get paid. His passion for coaching at some point will outweigh his lust for money....if hes a good one. He might not be.

3. I'm not advocating that Hazell take less up front money, Hope didn't take less up front money when he renegotiated. All he did was take an extension for recruiting purposes and roped into that extension was a reduction in his buyout. It was like a $2million buyout and got reduced to $1million or so with the next contract.

4. I can tell you aren't a sports business agent. Advocating that Hazell take the money and run is doing your client a disservice. Its assuring that he's fired as a loser...which sure, could happen anyhow....but its not giving him a chance to stick around and reverse the negatives of his P5 HC career. If Hazell goes now....would you hire him as a HC if you were ANY NCAA football program? I surely wouldn't.

What do you enjoy doing? Like, really enjoy doing? What would you give up to keep doing it at a high level? Maybe Hazell's is being a P5 head football coach. People do crazy things when you threaten to take away what they love doing. I'd give up a few million bucks for the chance to keep going on doing what I love with the opportunity to earn more in the future and not be kicked back down the ladder rungs a year or two or maybe 10 before I should be.

You're not thinking this through: what guarantee would Hazell have under your "reduce the buyout by $1 million" scenario that Burke doesn't get fired in January and a new AD doesn't come in and boot Hazell to bring his own guy in?

There's a better chance of him getting caught running a Ponzi scheme than agreeing to something like that.

Our best bet is him willing to reduce the buyout by the amount he would likely make over the next 3 years in his next coaching job. What's Lafayette Jeff paying their JV coach these days?

 

[Summy1]

Boilers1975 said: ↑
I've asked several times on this board with no response. Who else was talking/ looking at Hazell? Why did we pay him 2m when he was only making 350,000 ?
Burke should be demoted or dismissed immediately.
Click to expand...

So lets do some simple math:
$2.2M / 350k = 6.28 6.28 x 6 years= 37.68 So Burke offered this guy the equivalent of 37.68 years of his then annual pay and the opportunity to move up to a B1G School, to sign with us WTF! Really, really who the hell is worth that kind of bump in pay JUST TO SIGN and collect a paycheck? Burke must be senile.

I too think they over paid. Okay if they are going to give him 2 million a year then why not lessen the years from 6 to maybe 4 and let Hazell be able to prove that he is a good coach. Now they are stuck with his long contract and have to pay big time if they let him go.

 

[Statey]

1. He benefits from being the coach at Purdue. That could end as early as January. Sure, he gets 3 more years of pay....but does he ever work for more than avg. assistants pay ever again? Not likely....

I'll give you that it's possible Hazell just has to retire and change careers after his stint at Purdue because of how bad it's going. Is it likely that he'd never get another head coaching job? I'm not nearly as convinced as you on this. Not counting coaches in the NFL, at any given time, there are, say, 400-500 people in college athletics in the country with the requisite background, knowledge, experience, etc. to even be considered for a heading coaching job in college football? Bad coaches get recycled all the time; look at the NFL, it's more noticeable there because there are so few teams.

Of course Purdue wants to renegotiate. I think Hazell needs all the people in his camp that he can get at this time. If he doesn't renegotiate, he likely loses his job....sure, he gets paid....but I think he'd probably rather be a head football coach than get paid. His passion for coaching at some point will outweigh his lust for money....if hes a good one. He might not be.

I'm not sure that renegotiating his contract get's Purdue "in his camp". And I'm kind of surprised you look at it like this. By getting Purdue in his camp this way, he provides Purdue an opportunity to fire him sooner and presumably with less of a buyout than Purdue agreed to less than 3 years ago. If that's making friends and getting people in your camp... I'm not sure Hazell can afford to have any enemies...

I'm not advocating that Hazell take less up front money, Hope didn't take less up front money when he renegotiated. All he did was take an extension for recruiting purposes and roped into that extension was a reduction in his buyout. It was like a $2million buyout and got reduced to $1million or so with the next contract.

OK, that's fair. If you're not advocating he take less money now, are you advocating he get a pay increase instead? If you're the AD, and you want him to give up something - a portion of his buyout guarantee - you better be offering him something more than just more years (because these "more years" are useless if Hazell continues on the track he's on because he'll just be fired anyway).

I can tell you aren't a sports business agent. Advocating that Hazell take the money and run is doing your client a disservice. Its assuring that he's fired as a loser...which sure, could happen anyhow....but its not giving him a chance to stick around and reverse the negatives of his P5 HC career. If Hazell goes now....would you hire him as a HC if you were ANY NCAA football program? I surely wouldn't.

There is a big difference between me saying I'd recommend DH not renegotiate his contract vs. you saying I advocated him "taking the money and run". The latter implies that he's getting paid for nothing, or skipping out on responsibilities, etc. All I suggested was that Hazell continue to honor the deal he and Purdue signed. If Purdue wants to renegotiate and gives him something he wants in exchange for what Purdue wants, hey that's great. But Hazell and his agent shouldn't feel compelled for no reason other than fan angst to just give something while he's still performing all of the same duties as he was performing the day he took the job.

What do you enjoy doing? Like, really enjoy doing? What would you give up to keep doing it at a high level? Maybe Hazell's is being a P5 head football coach. People do crazy things when you threaten to take away what they love doing. I'd give up a few million bucks for the chance to keep going on doing what I love with the opportunity to earn more in the future and not be kicked back down the ladder rungs a year or two or maybe 10 before I should be.

I don't know you from Adam, so not suggesting you're not genuine about this statement, but I will say it's a hell of lot easier to say when it's not your "few million bucks" we're talking about.

 

[pboiler18]

I'll give you that it's possible Hazell just has to retire and change careers after his stint at Purdue because of how bad it's going. Is it likely that he'd never get another head coaching job? I'm not nearly as convinced as you on this. Not counting coaches in the NFL, at any given time, there are, say, 400-500 people in college athletics in the country with the requisite background, knowledge, experience, etc. to even be considered for a heading coaching job in college football? Bad coaches get recycled all the time; look at the NFL, it's more noticeable there because there are so few teams.


I'm not sure that renegotiating his contract get's Purdue "in his camp". And I'm kind of surprised you look at it like this. By getting Purdue in his camp this way, he provides Purdue an opportunity to fire him sooner and presumably with less of a buyout than Purdue agreed to less than 3 years ago. If that's making friends and getting people in your camp... I'm not sure Hazell can afford to have any enemies...


OK, that's fair. If you're not advocating he take less money now, are you advocating he get a pay increase instead? If you're the AD, and you want him to give up something - a portion of his buyout guarantee - you better be offering him something more than just more years (because these "more years" are useless if Hazell continues on the track he's on because he'll just be fired anyway).


There is a big difference between me saying I'd recommend DH not renegotiate his contract vs. you saying I advocated him "taking the money and run". The latter implies that he's getting paid for nothing, or skipping out on responsibilities, etc. All I suggested was that Hazell continue to honor the deal he and Purdue signed. If Purdue wants to renegotiate and gives him something he wants in exchange for what Purdue wants, hey that's great. But Hazell and his agent shouldn't feel compelled for no reason other than fan angst to just give something while he's still performing all of the same duties as he was performing the day he took the job.


I don't know you from Adam, so not suggesting you're not genuine about this statement, but I will say it's a hell of lot easier to say when it's not your "few million bucks" we're talking about.

I just still don't think you get it. Purdue holds A LOT of power here as far as the future of it's own program AND Darrel Hazell are concerned. It''s not written in stone Hazell gets to come back for year 4. It's not written in stone that Hazell will ever or never be a head coach again. That said, college IS NOT the NFL. Will Hazell be a coach again? Absolutely. Will he ever make the big bucks again? HIGHLY DOUBT IT! What program is going to take a risk on a guy who is currently averaging less than 2 wins a year?

You're not asking yourself what options Hazell has POST Purdue. If he gets the boot after this year, his options are likely to not coach next year....and then after that leverage one of his buddies for a WR or Offensive position coach job. Do you want this guy in charge of your whole offense if you're a team? Do you want this guy in charge of your whole team?

His best outcome is to do what the administration asks to stick around to have the chance to right the ship. Taking the money and running (and never working a high level job again) is far less appealing when you already have money in the bank. I'm sure you're a Purdue grad and do well, but I doubt you're sitting on the stash of cash Hazell is and therefore unless you put yourself in his mindset can't understand what you'd do in that situation. Hazell has the money.....at this point he wants the head job more IMO. Giving up $2 or so million in guarantees might be worth it if it means you get 1 more chance to save your career. If Purdue isn't working this option hard behind the scenes, the AD IS NOT doing its due dilligence.

If Hazell is going to be here past this year, I GUARANTEE that you will see some kind of extension worked out and it WILL include some buyout reduction....most likely a small one....and one spaced out over more years. He's owed what, $6.75mil over his last 3 years? If he renegotiates, it might look like something like $6mil over the last 5.....saving Purdue $750,000 AND spacing the payments out, allowing Purdue to reinvest more, earlier in a new coach. This is EXACTLY what happened when Hope got an extension after 2012.