G&B Article

[mathboy]

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Lol you seem really butthurt i dont think the team is athletic.

I think you are perfectly welcome to your opinion. However, others may disagree with it, so when you express it, don't be surprised if you receive criticism. It is no big deal, right?

If you are welcome to an opinion, so am I, and I do disagree that the current team lacks athleticism. I think VE is one of the most athletic players in the BIG. PJ is no slouch either. I also think that Dakota is a unique athlete, but he does not have the foot speed of some others. You might note that I separate foot speed from "athleticism", right? A fast runner might not be a good athlete, right? Usain Bolt can't throw a basketball into the ocean, but he has foot speed. Mathias can hit long range shots consistently, under pressure, which means he has strong athletic ability to successfully execute a complex physical action. (This is a very simplistic example but you get the idea).

I am not convinced Ewing, Wheeler, and Eastern are more athletic than VE, PJ, Mathias and Biggie. Hell, I don't have clue how you measure these things.

 

[gd4now]

IMO the whole more athletic thing is sort of a misnomer. Do not get me wrong, there are advantages to be able to jump higher, run faster, move quicker etc than to not being able to do so. But there are also advantages to being able to thread passes, make shots, contested or not, stepping to the foul line and sinking shots when it counts (they all do) and playing the best harassing defensive you are capable of. In my opinion a team that plays like a team, where they are greater than their individual parts, and not like 3 or 4 guys around a star, is better than the other way around.

Basketball is a team sport, even though it appears to be attempting to become an individual sport where stars are the only important part.

 

[PurdueBtfu2]

I think you are perfectly welcome to your opinion. However, others may disagree with it, so when you express it, don't be surprised if you receive criticism. It is no big deal, right?

If you are welcome to an opinion, so am I, and I do disagree that the current team lacks athleticism. I think VE is one of the most athletic players in the BIG. PJ is no slouch either. I also think that Dakota is a unique athlete, but he does not have the foot speed of some others. You might note that I separate foot speed from "athleticism", right? A fast runner might not be a good athlete, right? Usain Bolt can't throw a basketball into the ocean, but he has foot speed. Mathias can hit long range shots consistently, under pressure, which means he has strong athletic ability to successfully execute a complex physical action. (This is a very simplistic example but you get the idea).

I am not convinced Ewing, Wheeler, and Eastern are more athletic than VE, PJ, Mathias and Biggie. Hell, I don't have clue how you measure these things.

Maybe this is where some of the disagreement or different viewpoints originate. When I hear about athleticism in the recruiting world, I first envision a kid's natural raw ability rather than a specific skill subset in a particular sport - or 'complex physical action' as you state. Athleticism in a rudimentary workout type setting rather than a scrimmage or actual plays. That would be the aspect that is almost entirely measurable, such as the combine. 40 times, number of benches, vertical.

When reading scout comments about Lawson or Kilgore, being "athletic freaks" was more common than say Mathias or Cline. They are obviously still division one athletically, but more apt to be described as skilled shooters, high basketball IQ, and so on. Their measurable numbers would likely be a bit less in comparison.

If the new recruits are not as athletic as the returning roster as you suggest, that would be a bit of a new take for me, compared to what I have read here and elsewhere.

 

[PurdueBtfu2]

IMO the whole more athletic thing is sort of a misnomer. Do not get me wrong, there are advantages to be able to jump higher, run faster, move quicker etc than to not being able to do so. But there are also advantages to being able to thread passes, make shots, contested or not, stepping to the foul line and sinking shots when it counts (they all do) and playing the best harassing defensive you are capable of. In my opinion a team that plays like a team, where they are greater than their individual parts, and not like 3 or 4 guys around a star, is better than the other way around.

Basketball is a team sport, even though it appears to be attempting to become an individual sport where stars are the only important part.

Well said, and our staff has a great team compiled for next season to accomplish great things.

 

[punaj]

I started this thread and am excited to see these new guys but athleticism isn't everything. Team ball, passing, shooting, etc is important... just ask Gene Hackman.








TIC

 

[JohnHoosierr]

I think you are perfectly welcome to your opinion. However, others may disagree with it, so when you express it, don't be surprised if you receive criticism. It is no big deal, right?

If you are welcome to an opinion, so am I, and I do disagree that the current team lacks athleticism. I think VE is one of the most athletic players in the BIG. PJ is no slouch either. I also think that Dakota is a unique athlete, but he does not have the foot speed of some others. You might note that I separate foot speed from "athleticism", right? A fast runner might not be a good athlete, right? Usain Bolt can't throw a basketball into the ocean, but he has foot speed. Mathias can hit long range shots consistently, under pressure, which means he has strong athletic ability to successfully execute a complex physical action. (This is a very simplistic example but you get the idea).

I am not convinced Ewing, Wheeler, and Eastern are more athletic than VE, PJ, Mathias and Biggie. Hell, I don't have clue how you measure these things.

Cool story.

 

[StickPurdue]

IMO the whole more athletic thing is sort of a misnomer. Do not get me wrong, there are advantages to be able to jump higher, run faster, move quicker etc than to not being able to do so. But there are also advantages to being able to thread passes, make shots, contested or not, stepping to the foul line and sinking shots when it counts (they all do) and playing the best harassing defensive you are capable of. In my opinion a team that plays like a team, where they are greater than their individual parts, and not like 3 or 4 guys around a star, is better than the other way around.

Basketball is a team sport, even though it appears to be attempting to become an individual sport where stars are the only important part.

Being athletic helps with over achieving. Easy examples are Syracuse two years ago, South Carolina, and Oregon last year. They clicked and made deep tournament runs, something that Purdue hasn't done in a long time. Purdue has relied on basketball IQ and shooting for a while and sprinkle in an occasional elite athlete. Eastern has size and length at the guard position that make him a nightmare for opposing teams. Wheeler is also long and athletic. It helps defensively and can lead to more transitional buckets.

PJ has improved probably more than any other player in the Big Ten over the last four years. Went from being ranked in the mid/low 200 range to a starting PG in the Big Ten. There is still a clear difference between what he can do vs what Eastern can do and it is because of physical attributes. The NBA shows a preference for athletic potential and putting more kids in the NBA helps with future recruiting.

At this point Painter needs to start showing what he can do with these type of players. Then we can start landing players like Bingham that literally do everything Painter wants, and have the tools to make deep tournament runs. I think next year is the perfect mix of senior leadership and incoming athleticism. I think Painter will show preference to those that already know the system, but if the young guys show they can handle the system, they will see their opportunities.

 

[BoiledSteel]

Cool story.

Yep, you're just a troll. Kind of figured you were but it's pretty clear now.

Off to ignore you and your narrow minded posts go. Try not to cry so much.

 

[Dakota Girl]

Are you suggesting that we develop a zone over the next few years????? I looked it up, zones are supposed to force the other team too shoot over them. Really, it said that.

Ha! It does sort of seem that I am suggesting that doesn't it, but that would be too simple of a statement to fit my contorted way of the thinking.
While I am a firm believer that Man to Man is the best and most versatile defence, I am not opposed to zone being used situationally if you have the right personnel.
Most people think of a 2-3 when they say zone. That's their experience and that's because in some youth leagues, or some lazy middle school team they played on they were taught 2-3 and it was physically easy and it worked. Therefore it's good.
Unfortunately it only worked because the opponents did not know how easy it is to gap it, collapse it, force it to shift, then slice it up for layups and wide open jumpers.
I'm ok with zones I just like them to be very aggressive and to be used in moderation. There are so many zone presses and half court t traps to play with. I love the Aomeba because it's passive aggressive and it messes with opponents minds.
Purdue could make use of some zone and do it well...next year when the personnel is better suited. Painter doesn't need to learn how as some on here assert. He knows.
Mane he will maybe he won't. I'm good either way.

 

[FirstDownB]

Maybe this is where some of the disagreement or different viewpoints originate. When I hear about athleticism in the recruiting world, I first envision a kid's natural raw ability rather than a specific skill subset in a particular sport - or 'complex physical action' as you state. Athleticism in a rudimentary workout type setting rather than a scrimmage or actual plays. That would be the aspect that is almost entirely measurable, such as the combine. 40 times, number of benches, vertical.

When reading scout comments about Lawson or Kilgore, being "athletic freaks" was more common than say Mathias or Cline. They are obviously still division one athletically, but more apt to be described as skilled shooters, high basketball IQ, and so on. Their measurable numbers would likely be a bit less in comparison.

If the new recruits are not as athletic as the returning roster as you suggest, that would be a bit of a new take for me, compared to what I have read here and elsewhere.

Well stated. Athleticism is typically used in the context of natural athletic abilities that are not unique to a specific sport or skill set. Example, some coaches have remarked how they like to recruit players who play multiple sports because it shows overall athleticism. Also, football players recruited as "athletes" have the raw talent (typically speed) to play more than one position.
It's not a knock on those who cannot run fast or jump high or have exceptional fine motor skills, but the ceiling on a recruit is typically higher if he has the traits. It is more common for an exceptional athlete to develop a jump shot and learn to pass well than it is for a skill guy to become exceptionally athletic.

 

[JohnHoosierr]

Yep, you're just a troll. Kind of figured you were but it's pretty clear now.

Off to ignore you and your narrow minded posts go. Try not to cry so much.

Thanks for writing an entire paragraph about how you put me on ignore. I feel kinda special.

 

[Chauncey Hill]

Thanks for writing an entire paragraph about how you put me on ignore. I feel kinda special.

Are you feeling even more special now?

 

[JohnHoosierr]

Are you feeling even more special now?

Unless you write a paragraph announcing to the world you blocked me, then no.

 

[PU52Chevy]

In basketball...above the rim players seem to be categorized as athletic and under the rim guys more as skilled......

Ewing, Eastern and Wheeler are above the rim guys because they can jump and their length.

VE is very athletic and skilled........as are many on the team now.

I agree CMP and staff have assembled some great young men who want to be at Purdue (which is the key) and as a whole make us very competitive and a contender for Big Ten Champ and NCAA.

That's all one can ask and be proud of.

Boiler Up!

 

[since1980]

Didn't realize bringing up athleticism was going to cause such a stir.
It's not rocket science. Skill + Athleticism + good size relative to position played+ Effort+ HIgh BBall IQ = the best basketball players (I.E Lebron, Kobe, Jordan, Magic). Substitute in excessively good shooting ability and you can possibly cover up some of those traits (i.e Steve Kerr, Kyle Korver).
Remove one of those traits and most likely none of those players become Hall of Famers.

Athleticism increases your ceiling as a player. Mathias is athletic if compared to high school players, but he's not considered Athletic when compared to college players. He has a ceiling for which regardless of how much skill, effort, bball IQ he has, he would never make the NBA because he isn't athletic enough.
Even Vince's main issue relative to the NBA is he is not athletic enough at his position to be a sure fire bet. He's got just about everything else, but small forwards in the NBA are mostly top-end athletes these days.

So my original point was, now we have Wheeler and Ewing who are freak athletes and we have Haarms and Eastern who are very long for their position (which somewhat makes up for athleticism).
PJ, Cline, Mathias and neither long nor athletic or their position. So to make my point, this will be Painters first team in a while that exceeds what we have been used to seeing...and it will be interesting if that changes any stylistic offense or defensive system to take advantage of those traits....especially in terms of PNR or defensively when we have a bunch of length out there.

 

[Do Dah Day]

It's not rocket science. Skill + Athleticism + good size relative to position played+ Effort+ HIgh BBall IQ = the best basketball players
.... regardless of how much skill, effort, bball IQ he has, he would never make the NBA because he isn't athletic enough.

Oh no - you included Basketball IQ." I'm heating-up the popcorn popper.

 

[*4purdue*]

I'm waiting for Nage to read the article and report back here that we still don't know how to beat a press...

Seriously can't wait to see this team. Could be really special come March.

PJ has always had a problem against big guards... nothing new here. I like PJ as a player, but IMO he's really a role player. CMP is making a mistake if he doesn't play CE at the point ahead of him. Only way we advance in March is if we have guards that can compete athletically. PJ takes care of the ball better than anyone & is an above average shooter, but against really athletic guards, he's a step slow & very limited.

 

[*4purdue*]

We are gonna be sssooooo athletic, teams ain't gonna know what hit em! We are definitely ahead of the curve on this athleticism thing

We have some nice pieces in the freshman class.... but with IH & PJ on the floor, I don't think we are going to blow teams away with our athleticism.

 

[PU52Chevy]

Remember it takes a "Team" to win.......everyone one was assembled to be on this team to contribute...it is up to CMP to put them in the right positions to win and then it is on the player to rely on experience, talent and skill to actually perform and win.

I like our chances to be a 28+ winner this year and good things like either Big Ten Champ or BTTC or Final 4/NCAA Champ.

Boiler Up and pass me more koolaid.

 

[tjreese]

So you mean we cant have a team full of Jacob Lawsons or team full of ryan clines and be good?!? Im shocked I tell ya!

True, but generally the lean is slightly towards skill since points only come by making baskets. Too many people get hung up on great athletes alone. That said an athlete with the right outlook can develop skill. The rule changes increase the athlete's importance, but it is not a fifty fifty share

 

[tjreese]

Glad we got that cleared up.

The reality is that some are infatuated with the athlete as shown in some posts. I still lean to skill over athlete meani.g I would take a 4 star skill, 3 athlete over a 4 athlete and 3 skill. Course the athlete has a higher ceiling. I do think it is more than just getting some of each

 

[tjreese]

A flute with no holes isn't a flute and a donut with no holes is a danish.

A person that runs fast and jumps high is a track star and a person that can do that and dribble, pass and shoot is a basketball star.

 

[tjreese]

Being athletic helps with over achieving. Easy examples are Syracuse two years ago, South Carolina, and Oregon last year. They clicked and made deep tournament runs, something that Purdue hasn't done in a long time. Purdue has relied on basketball IQ and shooting for a while and sprinkle in an occasional elite athlete. Eastern has size and length at the guard position that make him a nightmare for opposing teams. Wheeler is also long and athletic. It helps defensively and can lead to more transitional buckets.

PJ has improved probably more than any other player in the Big Ten over the last four years. Went from being ranked in the mid/low 200 range to a starting PG in the Big Ten. There is still a clear difference between what he can do vs what Eastern can do and it is because of physical attributes. The NBA shows a preference for athletic potential and putting more kids in the NBA helps with future recruiting.

At this point Painter needs to start showing what he can do with these type of players. Then we can start landing players like Bingham that literally do everything Painter wants, and have the tools to make deep tournament runs. I think next year is the perfect mix of senior leadership and incoming athleticism. I think Painter will show preference to those that already know the system, but if the young guys show they can handle the system, they will see their opportunities.

Matt has always played freshman ready to play