My brother's a Maryland grad and follows their sports pretty closely.
He said he's hearing JJJ is headed to West Lafayette.
He said he's hearing JJJ is headed to West Lafayette.
FWIW: JJJ
- Thread starter bonefish1
- Start date
Don't have any idea where he's going, but the fact that CMP visited him twice in the last week tells me we're in the running.
Purdue has been in the running from the outset...that has never been a question or in question...unfortunately, being in the running is pretty irrelevant...you either succeed or fail in getting his commitment.
Agreed. The "Painter recruited JJJ perfectly and couldn't have done any more than he did" crowd is ridiculous.
You either win or you lose.
I'm not saying CMP isn't recruiting with a more difficult hand than say, Izzo, but it's part of Painter's job to accentuate Purdue's basketball program, which coincides with recruiting.
No, it's a fact. What is ridiculous is thinking recruiting is as cut and dry as to partner it with a "win or lose" effect. The ultimate decision is not in any of the coach's hands but that of the recruit. So yeah, Painter has done all he can do but in the end the recruit makes the choice, not the coach.
Hearing MSU now too. But it's all mass speculation.
What is also interesting is that this would be Izzos first 2017 commit. Which just means there is a LOT of recruiting yet to go.
What is also interesting is that this would be Izzos first 2017 commit. Which just means there is a LOT of recruiting yet to go.
Don't lose hope, Kessy.
Remember Einstein said that e = m•c^2
John Paul Jones said "I have not yet begun to fight"
"Trust in Painter" ! ! ! !
And:
Divine providence .
Rabbit's foot
Four leaf clover
Random chance
Hang in there, this is gonna be a bumpy ride
This. +1000. He may or may not pick us but CMP was all-in. There's still a lot of talent out there with or without JJJ. We'll have a solid class either way.
Recruiting is sales. Some salesmen are built to catch the whales. Effort only matters if you close. Painter just does not appear to have it. A great coach can overcome mid-level talent and make the Final Four. Unfortunately....
All that said it ain't over till it's over.
I can see both sides on this...
Is it ultimately the decision of the recruit? Yes. But that can be said for any coach and any program. And as far as I can see other (peer) fan bases are holding their coaches accountable for recruiting.
Are Painter and his staff "trying hard" in recruiting the 2017 class? Yes. But can you try your best and still not be very good at something? Without doubt. I suck at drawing and a lot of other things, not matter how hard I try.
In the end it is the results that count, not effort. In the words of Yodi "Do or do not. There is no try."
The real question to me is how well is he doing compared to coaches at peer programs or how well would peer coaches do at Purdue. I'm just not sure the answer to that.
Is it ultimately the decision of the recruit? Yes. But that can be said for any coach and any program. And as far as I can see other (peer) fan bases are holding their coaches accountable for recruiting.
Are Painter and his staff "trying hard" in recruiting the 2017 class? Yes. But can you try your best and still not be very good at something? Without doubt. I suck at drawing and a lot of other things, not matter how hard I try.
In the end it is the results that count, not effort. In the words of Yodi "Do or do not. There is no try."
The real question to me is how well is he doing compared to coaches at peer programs or how well would peer coaches do at Purdue. I'm just not sure the answer to that.
Although I like CMP and believe he is a good fit st Purdue, my favorite line from a great movie called 'Glen Gary, Glen Ross:'
'Coffee is for closers.'
You can take the best recruiter in the world and if you put him at Ball State he's not going to land the top recruits. There are other factors outside of the coach's control.
Or, in your world, where the only thing that matters is the coach, you could have the #2 recruiter in the country but if he's battling the #1 recruiter for a player then he would lose out (because in this hypothetical world of yours the coach is all that matters in recruiting).
I guess I've always just thought the coach should be held accountable for winning. Recruiting is part of that but only part of that and rating it is an inexact science. The proof of our recruiting success will be our performance over the next few years, not some manufactured number by a high school player's name. There is correlation but it's not absolute.
That's certainly one way to look at it. We'll see if Bobinski agrees in a few years.
You don't see a correlation between Painter's bad classes and losing?
If you have listened to the interviews he's done so far (particularly the long one GBI did) I certainly feel like I got a good read on that.
I wouldn't expect him to say otherwise at this point, especially with Football being job 1, 2, and 3 at the moment.
2011 was a terrible class. 2012 had a two-year poison pill but other than that I don't think it has been bad. I think you can trace the 2 bad years to that one player and that one terrible class. Don't think we've seen another class like it since and I don't really see a huge problem player on our roster right now.
Obviously any coach is only a few bad years away from losing his job no matter how much equity they have but I thought he tipped his hand regarding what he thinks about the job Painter has done of late.
Time will tell. I really do hope you are right. Seems like 2017 is now officially going to be just an "OK" class, at best.
I think that's reasonable. But the reason I am hoping for a strong 2017 class is I am rooting for Painter but believe that his overall performance is hovering right around replacement level for Purdue. As you and others have stated there is a correlation between recruiting and performance. Hopefully he'll close on other 2017 'Plan A' targets. Izzo can't take them all..
Does he have room to sign both eastern and Tillman? Those seem to be the last 2 of our Plan A guys.
I'm an optimist i admit it, but one key takeaway here is that CMP is swinging for the fences and seemingly holding his own. Now that does not mean I'm happy with a participation trophy in these cases, but what it does show is he is making ground IMO.
Exactly. He's greatly widened the net in the past few years (basically since our recruiting budget was increased) and we are going hard after talent across the country. We won't get every 5 star; no one does, not even Izzo. Let's see the class he pulls together. He's proven lately he can find diamonds in the 3 star range (Haas, CE), sign 4 stars, and get the occasionally 5 star over the past 3 years.
Last I checked we were preseason #12. I view the program on the upswing. Others may think differently. Fine.
Haas was a 4 star. CE ended up a 4 star, but was a 3 star when he committed I think.
So you are gloating that a good recruit went to another school instead of Purdue? That really cements my opinion of you as a Purdue fan. Thanks for confirming what I thought of you already.
I disagree. Recruiting is all (or 90%) about the coach. When Duke loses Coach K, I think you're going to see a huge drop in that program.
Do you think that Coach Cal, Pitino, Self or any of the other guys who consistently bring in top 10 classes wouldn't be able to do so at Purdue given the same resources as Painter? I believe 100% that they would.
I think you're right. It's looking likely that we'll miss out on all the top players from IN in the '17 class. That's on the verge of being unacceptable from a recruiting standpoint.
Look at the number of times Painter has come in 2nd place for some top players. I don't question his time and effort, I just question his ability to close the deal with those top players.
This is the crux of the argument on this board. All want to be a top 5 program (i.e. Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, NC, and over the next few years MSU).
Some demand it and are unwilling to accept anything less. Others are content with being good but not great.
There is a price to be paid for either point of view which coincides with what it takes to be at each of those two levels. Neither is inherently right or wrong.
Good point. Expectations are very different across the fan base. The one's who want to be great can't understand why the one's who believe we're in a good place feel that way.
Some people want Purdue to strive to be a top program while others would like that to happen but don't think it's realistic.
Budget is part of it, and the staff/cmp has changed their philosophy over time.
In an older interview (jmv iirc), painter equated recruiting to dating. He mentioned approaching it pragmatically, and not chasing and offering every 5 star guy (vs a crean approach of the time). If you strike out on all the hot girls((5 stars), you're left taking no one to the school dance.
Now that we have a slightly higher budget for recruiting, more commitment and pay for assistants, improved facilities, nba draft selections, consistently top 25, preseason top 10ish....
We have seen some change in their approach, and are more capable of going after and landing some of these top players now than ever before.
Actual Fact...you have no idea what a fact is, as you throw the term around all of the time and it is never actually a fact when you do.
Here are some facts...
-Painter saved and banked scholarships for this class, due to how deeply talented it is and so as to have room for the number of recruits that he anticipated securing commitments from...and he has not landed a single recruit thus far in the 2017 class.
-The graduating class in the state of Indiana this year is incredibly loaded...maybe as loaded as at any other time in a single class with respect to nationally recognized talent, and Painter not only did not land any of them, he did not even get a sniff from a couple of them.
As for other things that he might have done/could have done that you apparently overlooked (or consciously failed to mention) would be have some actual NCAA tournament success...have some legitimate recruiting success so as to be able to sell prospective recruits on playing with key former recruits that are part of the program...and perhaps have an assistant coach on the staff that is a guy that has had recruiting success and is able to appeal to and draw in legitimate big-time talent.
And none of what you said changes the FACT that ultimately it is up to the player to decide where he wants to go and really, you have no business discussing it because you are most certainly entirely too clueless to grasp simple concepts like that.
