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Keeping it classy....you can't provide a counter argument so you stoop to personal attacks.

Fact: The players statements about Painter being a player's coach were not given under oath. Therefore, the statements cannot be treated as such. The players have nothing to gain by providing anything but positive remarks about Painter. The only college coach that many of those players have had is Painter. Therefore, they do not have a reference for other college coaches. Maybe, Painter is a mediocre players coach when compared to the other college coaches. It's a logical conclusion that if Painter was such a player's coach then he should be a great recruiter, which he isn't.

Fact: Painter is notorious for pulling younger players out of games immediately after making a mistake. I rarely see other great college coaches do that to their players.
Totally classless post. You are calling the players liars. Because they did not make statements under oath?! You have gone from semi-reasonable criticisms to claims that are truly bizarre. You say you only go by what you read in the media, then with this post you make up a load of B.S. that's in your own head.
 
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Totally classless post. You are calling the players liars. Because they did not make statements under oath?! You have gone from semi-reasonable criticisms to claims that are truly bizarre. You say you only go by what you read in the media, then with this post you make up a load of B.S. that's in your own head.
You're just mad that I have superior critical thinking skills and put together a logical and reasonable assessment of the situation that puts in doubt your pristine perception of Painter.

Let's rehash this. Did the players have the option to say anything but positive comments regarding Painter? The answer is no. It's called white lies. A similar situation would be when your wife asks you if she looks beautiful or fat. The answer is ALWAYS yes she looks beautiful or no she doesn't look fat. The second bit of data is that Painter struggles to recruit. If he is such a player's coach, then why does he struggle to recruit? I say that he isn't as much of a player's coach as we are led to believe.
 
guess you forgot the first 3 games this year when the football team kept making stupid personal fouls at critical times. what did brohm do? he said that players would sit if they did it again. so that pretty much shoots your theory to hell and back
Those are on field issues that are handled differently. I'm talking about off the court issues. You are also talking about 2 coaches with 2 vastly different approaches to playing the players. Brohm sees the value in talent, even if they are young and gives them a chance to play and prove they won't make mistakes. Painter assumes that his young players will make mistakes and only plays them once they have proven that they won't make mistakes.
 
Not sure that anyone on this board has a pristine perception of Painter. In fact, you would probably have an easier time of finding those that seemingly dislike everything about Painter.

Even though you weren't replying to me with, "I have superior critical thinking skills and put together a logical and assessment of the situation" ....

My assessment of your logic is that you have generated a narrative based primarily on your opinions and conjectures of those opinions. I do this sometimes too. Without your posts being grounded primarily in actual facts, people will especially disagree with your opinions of Painter.
 
Keeping it classy....you can't provide a counter argument so you stoop to personal attacks.

Fact: The players statements about Painter being a player's coach were not given under oath. Therefore, the statements cannot be treated as such. The players have nothing to gain by providing anything but positive remarks about Painter. The only college coach that many of those players have had is Painter. Therefore, they do not have a reference for other college coaches. Maybe, Painter is a mediocre players coach when compared to the other college coaches. It's a logical conclusion that if Painter was such a player's coach then he should be a great recruiter, which he isn't.

Fact: Painter is notorious for pulling younger players out of games immediately after making a mistake. I rarely see other great college coaches do that to their players.
So, you are using the absence of any testimony under oath to prove your point? I doesn't work that way. You made outlandish statements about Matt Painter and then fall back on this sort of defense? Wrong, wrong, wrong.

You are displaying a personal and very anti-Purdue perspective with your posts, and have pretty much admitted to just making stuff up. There is no evidence to support either of your speculative accusations. I have seen plenty of errors by young players who Painter allows to keep playing. If there is a teaching point he needs to make, he might call a player off the court, but most of the time he lets the kid play on. Your fact does not meet even a rough definition of the word "fact".
 
You're just mad that I have superior critical thinking skills and put together a logical and reasonable assessment of the situation that puts in doubt your pristine perception of Painter.

Let's rehash this. Did the players have the option to say anything but positive comments regarding Painter? The answer is no. It's called white lies. A similar situation would be when your wife asks you if she looks beautiful or fat. The answer is ALWAYS yes she looks beautiful or no she doesn't look fat. The second bit of data is that Painter struggles to recruit. If he is such a player's coach, then why does he struggle to recruit? I say that he isn't as much of a player's coach as we are led to believe.
"I have superior critical thinking skills and put together a logical and reasonable assessment". LOL!

Troll alert. I think NC_Boiler is an alias for some other poster who is not a Purdue fan.
 
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You're just mad that I have superior critical thinking skills and put together a logical and reasonable assessment of the situation that puts in doubt your pristine perception of Painter.

Let's rehash this. Did the players have the option to say anything but positive comments regarding Painter? The answer is no. It's called white lies. A similar situation would be when your wife asks you if she looks beautiful or fat. The answer is ALWAYS yes she looks beautiful or no she doesn't look fat. The second bit of data is that Painter struggles to recruit. If he is such a player's coach, then why does he struggle to recruit? I say that he isn't as much of a player's coach as we are led to believe.
How do you explain the players who have graduated and still talk highly of Painter? Are they just blowing smoke too?
 
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"I have superior critical thinking skills and put together a logical and reasonable assessment". LOL!

Troll alert. I think NC_Boiler is an alias for some other poster who is not a Purdue fan.

No dog in the fight,but throwing around the "troll" accusation seems a bit far fetched in this case. The guy joined this board on Feb 2, 2013. In that time he has made 110 posts while garnering 111 "likes".

I'm only an IU grad and no math wiz,but acquiring likes at greater than a 1-1 ratio per post seems pretty impossible for someone posting anti-Purdue posts on a PU board.
That's far more consistency than either of our respective teams have displayed over the past 6 yrs...:)
 
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"I have superior critical thinking skills and put together a logical and reasonable assessment". LOL!

Troll alert. I think NC_Boiler is an alias for some other poster who is not a Purdue fan.

Not sure whether NC is actually a Purdue fan or not, but he certainly seems to fit the definition of a troll by making posts based primarily on his opinion, designed to elicit an emotional response from those with opposing views and choosing selectively choosing partial facts in an attempt to support his opinion.

He’s shown little interest in engaging in real diologue, only in ‘proving’ that he is right. Unfortunately many of the most active posters on this board meet that criteria and a number of the rest of us, myself included, at times make the mistake of getting sucked into their approach.
 
I'm not a troll, and I am a Purdue fan....a very passionate one at that. I used to believe and think Painter could take Purdue to a Final Four. Unfortunately, I no longer have that belief, and I'm no longer willing to turn a blind eye to Painter's mistakes and shortcomings.

For the sake of argument, I'll agree that Painter is a player's coach, and that the comments by the players were genuine and honest. Why can't he recruit better? Isn't the preferred option for top talent to play for a player's coach? Let's add in the claim that Painter is an excellent developer of talent and a successful coach. Why can't he recruit better? Wouldn't it be an almost ideal situation to play for a successful player's coach that is excellent at developing talent? Something just doesn't add up to me.
 
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I'm not a troll, and I am a Purdue fan....a very passionate one at that. I used to believe and think Painter could take Purdue to a Final Four. Unfortunately, I no longer have that belief, and I'm no longer willing to turn a blind eye to Painter's mistakes and shortcomings.

For the sake of argument, I'll agree that Painter is a player's coach, and that the comments by the players were genuine and honest. Why can't he recruit better? Isn't the preferred option for top talent to play for a player's coach? Let's add in the claim that Painter is an excellent developer of talent and a successful coach. Why can't he recruit better? Wouldn't it be an almost ideal situation to play for a successful player's coach that is excellent at developing talent? Something just doesn't add up to me.

I would like him to recruit better too. However, on the contrary, is he really recruiting bad?? If not bad, what? He's hauled in some very nice recruiting classes in his tenure as head coach. Do you need a list of all the great recruiting finds he's had, like Carson Edwards, for example? That being said, it would be great if he could fill the roster top to bottom with coveted players, but I don't have that expectation.

All in all, I still believe Painter is a great X and O coach, decent recruiter, and a class act coach who does it the right way. I think he is the right person for the job.
 
I'm not a troll, and I am a Purdue fan....a very passionate one at that. I used to believe and think Painter could take Purdue to a Final Four. Unfortunately, I no longer have that belief, and I'm no longer willing to turn a blind eye to Painter's mistakes and shortcomings.

For the sake of argument, I'll agree that Painter is a player's coach, and that the comments by the players were genuine and honest. Why can't he recruit better? Isn't the preferred option for top talent to play for a player's coach? Let's add in the claim that Painter is an excellent developer of talent and a successful coach. Why can't he recruit better? Wouldn't it be an almost ideal situation to play for a successful player's coach that is excellent at developing talent? Something just doesn't add up to me.
Every good player he has recruited he has "lucked into". That is the only scenario that fits your argument, right?
 
I don’t think its too much to expect that at least 75% of Indiana’s 5* recruits at least take an official visit to Purdue. Brooks/TJD/Wilkes/Langford/Thomas/
Oden/JJJ.....can’t remember them all since they didn’t stop by.
 
I'm not a troll, and I am a Purdue fan....a very passionate one at that. I used to believe and think Painter could take Purdue to a Final Four. Unfortunately, I no longer have that belief, and I'm no longer willing to turn a blind eye to Painter's mistakes and shortcomings.

For the sake of argument, I'll agree that Painter is a player's coach, and that the comments by the players were genuine and honest. Why can't he recruit better? Isn't the preferred option for top talent to play for a player's coach? Let's add in the claim that Painter is an excellent developer of talent and a successful coach. Why can't he recruit better? Wouldn't it be an almost ideal situation to play for a successful player's coach that is excellent at developing talent? Something just doesn't add up to me.
The fact that previous players speak highly of Matt does not mean that other players do not speak highly of their coach. I would never assume that Matt is the only coach a player likes...just that he is liked by his players. I do NOT know that the preferred option for top talent is to play for a players coach at all. That is an assumption you make that may or may not be correct.

What may very well be a bigger impact is the media falling in love wiht some coaches more than others and the perception they generate in the TV viewers...some of which are influential to various players. We drive the car sometimes as well in fawning over the three week tourney. There are some people that love to ski, but there is no way anyone can sell me on the idea to ski.

Take a cursory view of the posts when Purdue loses and sometimes when they win. You will find a lot of different opinions on the same game we all watched. You will see not only views of the game, but maybe how things would be different had their thoughts been enacted. The game didn't change..only the difference in focus and interest...coupled sometimes with understanding and yet the opinions are varied. That is human nature. Is it possible that years ago when there were beauty contests that the runner ups might be prettier to different people? If we see countless examples of humanity having different views on the same set of stimuli (agreeing on some things and disagreeing on others), is it possible that recruits have more than one thing in mind other than the coach? Do the players lie when they have their five visits and say they have good relationships with different coaches and players adn that only one was coach or team had anyone the players visiting liked?

Thought this was interesting even if football. Recruits talking about coaches...schools etc and their views

https://n.rivals.com/news/recruits-like-early-signing-period-even-with-coaching-changes
 
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The fact that previous players speak highly of Matt does not mean that other players do not speak highly of their coach. I would never assume that Matt is the only coach a player likes...just that he is liked by his players. I do NOT know that the preferred option for top talent is to play for a players coach at all. That is an assumption you make that may or may not be correct.

What may very well be a bigger impact is the media falling in love wiht some coaches more than others and the perception they generate in the TV viewers...some of which are influential to various players. We drive the car sometimes as well in fawning over the three week tourney. There are some people that love to ski, but there is no way anyone can sell me on the idea to ski.

Take a cursory view of the posts when Purdue loses and sometimes when they win. You will find a lot of different opinions on the same game we all watched. You will see not only views of the game, but maybe how things would be different had their thoughts been enacted. The game didn't change..only the difference in focus and interest...coupled sometimes with understanding and yet the opinions are varied. That is human nature. Is it possible that years ago when there were beauty contests that the runner ups might be prettier to different people? If we see countless examples of humanity having different views on the same set of stimuli (agreeing on some things and disagreeing on others), is it possible that recruits have more than one thing in mind other than the coach? Do the players lie when they have their five visits and say they have good relationships with different coaches and players adn that only one was coach or team had anyone the players visiting liked?

Thought this was interesting even if football. Recruits talking about coaches...schools etc and their views

https://n.rivals.com/news/recruits-like-early-signing-period-even-with-coaching-changes
Again this is football, but here are some snippets from ALL of the players in the previous link from the All -American Bowl.
1 “Honestly, I didn’t even care about the coach leaving because Miami is in my heart,” Smith said. “That was my dream school and I always wanted to play there. No matter the coach, I still want to play there.

2 “I think it’s a good thing because it shows how much you are committed to that team and it shows the coaches how much you care about the team.”

3 I don’t go to a school because of the coaches; I go because I like the school and I feel like it fit me. For me, it doesn’t scare me too much. You should know that going in, and you should be fine.”

4 It can be bittersweet. It depends on the school you sign to. If you sign to a pretty stable program, then you should be solid, because you know your coach is going to remain there. If you sign to a school that isn’t winning games, like all those kids who signed to Miami, the head coach is gone now.”

5 “I like it a lot, especially since I have been committed for a long time to Purdue and am enrolling early. If you can sign whenever you want, I think that would be a good idea also. If you are committed to the coach, just hold off until the late signing period. But, if you are committed to the school – like, I am committed to Purdue, I don’t care who is there – then I think (signing early) is a good thing.”

6 Like I’ve always been told, don’t go to a school because of the coach. You go to a school because when you got on campus it felt like home. Obviously the coach plays a little bit of a factor, but not the biggest factor.”

7 You are not supposed to go to a school for a coach. You are supposed to go to a school because you love that school and that’s where you see yourself. Coaches leave every year.

8 “It’s a good thing because once you sign and get everything out of the way, you get a lot of stress off your shoulders. You don’t sign to coaches; you sign to a university. So, if you really want to go to that university regardless of coaches, you’ll be straight with your decision.”
 
I would like him to recruit better too. However, on the contrary, is he really recruiting bad?? If not bad, what? He's hauled in some very nice recruiting classes in his tenure as head coach. Do you need a list of all the great recruiting finds he's had, like Carson Edwards, for example? That being said, it would be great if he could fill the roster top to bottom with coveted players, but I don't have that expectation.

All in all, I still believe Painter is a great X and O coach, decent recruiter, and a class act coach who does it the right way. I think he is the right person for the job.
You say Painter is a decent recruiter, but I say he's more of a borderline poor recruiter. Yes, he has recruited some great players, but that is more an anomaly than a norm. In basketball, talent beats X's and O's more often than not, and I don't see Painter adapting to become a better recruiter. Look at the struggles at the 4 this year. I struggle to understand why Painter couldn't find someone that could make an immediate impact and fill the void left by VE. I realize that he brought in Wheeler, but Wheeler was redshirted so he obviously couldn't make an immediate impact. Wheeler doesn't start this year so he obviously isn't ready this year. At some point, you would think Painter would recognize the vulnerability and go get an instant impact 4. There's basically unlimited playing time at 4. I realize recruiting is more complex than that, but the coaching staff has to have forward thinking and be proactive in filling voids.
 
You say Painter is a decent recruiter, but I say he's more of a borderline poor recruiter. Yes, he has recruited some great players, but that is more an anomaly than a norm. In basketball, talent beats X's and O's more often than not, and I don't see Painter adapting to become a better recruiter. Look at the struggles at the 4 this year. I struggle to understand why Painter couldn't find someone that could make an immediate impact and fill the void left by VE. I realize that he brought in Wheeler, but Wheeler was redshirted so he obviously couldn't make an immediate impact. Wheeler doesn't start this year so he obviously isn't ready this year. At some point, you would think Painter would recognize the vulnerability and go get an instant impact 4. There's basically unlimited playing time at 4. I realize recruiting is more complex than that, but the coaching staff has to have forward thinking and be proactive in filling voids.

Who has recruited at an elite level for Purdue basketball? What makes you assume it’s Painter and not Purdue?
 
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You say Painter is a decent recruiter, but I say he's more of a borderline poor recruiter. Yes, he has recruited some great players, but that is more an anomaly than a norm. In basketball, talent beats X's and O's more often than not, and I don't see Painter adapting to become a better recruiter. Look at the struggles at the 4 this year. I struggle to understand why Painter couldn't find someone that could make an immediate impact and fill the void left by VE. I realize that he brought in Wheeler, but Wheeler was redshirted so he obviously couldn't make an immediate impact. Wheeler doesn't start this year so he obviously isn't ready this year. At some point, you would think Painter would recognize the vulnerability and go get an instant impact 4. There's basically unlimited playing time at 4. I realize recruiting is more complex than that, but the coaching staff has to have forward thinking and be proactive in filling voids.

Fair enough post, and thanks for being cordial.

I don't consider it possible to be a borderline recruiter and also recruit some great players.

Also, the year isn't over, and Wheeler's career isn't finished to assume he won't be impactful. I realize you mean immediate help.. but that's not likely happening unless he found a high four/five star.. even then, not guaranteed that any recruit can immediately be impactful. Anyway, I'd argue that wheeler has been impactful this season already. He redshirted last year for probably several reasons, but mainly due to depth at his position. Just because he isn't starting, doesn't mean he isn't ready this year, or can't be impactful. Wheeler has done very well coming off the bench (and now Haarms is too).

Here's something we *may* be able to agree on: I'd like to see Painter add/adjust his staff to improve recruiting. I remember Cuonzo Martin doing an excellent job in that area. Problem is, all these guys move on to head coaching gigs (as they should).
 
Who has recruited at an elite level for Purdue basketball? What makes you assume it’s Painter and not Purdue?
as there is some support for that in my post above with player quotes from the All-American bowl...all 8 that I assume were nto directly asked about what is important in determining the school, but what was offered along those lines...by what I assume was a somewhat random group of players...not previously sorted for answers. This agrees with Treed's comments.

Now the inquisitive mind wonders if players commit differently between football and basketball. I doubt it, but...

Next, the obvious question is "if" players were not sorted out due to responses, what is the likelyhood that the sampling of players listed the school primarily and team next as a sampling error...meaning that the group of 8 were sampling from a population where agreement for their views was highly unlikely and yet resulting in pretty much uniform agreement? Not likely. Just some things to make an inquiring mind go hmmmnnnnn.

Certainly not definitive, but "should" bring into some doubt about the magnitude of the coach's influence...with at least the high profile players...or maybe only those that attend the All-American Bowl and a complete anomaly to all other players?
 
Who has recruited at an elite level for Purdue basketball? What makes you assume it’s Painter and not Purdue?
Very true northside. I remember GK being bridesmaid to 2 recruits years ago that frustrated me. Jerome Lane from Gary who ended up at Louisville and Rashard Griffith who was on the cover of SI as a 8th grader picked Wisc over Purdue.
 
Rashard Griffith: that miss was every bit as big as Glenn's back and Robbie's knee injuries.
Btw, didn't Jerome Lane go to Pitt? I recall him shattering a backboard once.
 
Rashard Griffith: that miss was every bit as big as Glenn's back and Robbie's knee injuries.
Btw, didn't Jerome Lane go to Pitt? I recall him shattering a backboard once.
Any chance the discussion is about Jerome Harmon that went to Louisville?
 
Rashard Griffith: that miss was every bit as big as Glenn's back and Robbie's knee injuries.
Btw, didn't Jerome Lane go to Pitt? I recall him shattering a backboard once.
Could’ve been Pitt. That was the 70s which was my blurry decade.
 
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Could’ve been Pitt. That was the 70s which was my blurry decade.
I'm unaware (and that goes for several things) that Purdue ever recruited Jerome Lane. However, many thought Purdue was going to land Jerome Harmon that went to Louisville
 
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I'm unaware (and that goes for several things) that Purdue ever recruited Jerome Lane. However, many thought Purdue was going to land Jerome Harmon that went to Louisville
From Gary? Again , could’ve been. See above.
 
From Gary? Again , could’ve been. See above.
you would have to have been blurry in the 80s too! ;) yeah, from Gary. For whatever reason I seem to recall him lining up on the lane as a teammate was shooting a Ft. I don't know how to erase little things that have no significance today... ;)
 
Rashard Griffith: that miss was every bit as big as Glenn's back and Robbie's knee injuries.
Btw, didn't Jerome Lane go to Pitt? I recall him shattering a backboard once.

Yes......the famed "Send it in, Jerome!" from Bill Raftery.

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