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ESPN says no B1G team in title hunt ....

BoilerBonz

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Sep 5, 2002
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Click on Champ Week under NCAAM on the ESPN website. They give an audio run down of the various conferences and their likely success in the NCAAT. Pac 12 has 3 legit title contenders. B1G has none, and the B1GT is a toss up of mediocres. Purdue might be favorite because it has Caleb and no one else does. Minnie is hot but MD has reverted to mediocre self, Wisconsin has now shown it was never any good.

So, who will be the first here to step up and argue that ESPN (aka, ACC) is correct in asserting that the B1G sucks!!! ?
 
Click on Champ Week under NCAAM on the ESPN website. They give an audio run down of the various conferences and their likely success in the NCAAT. Pac 12 has 3 legit title contenders. B1G has none, and the B1GT is a toss up of mediocres. Purdue might be favorite because it has Caleb and no one else does. Minnie is hot but MD has reverted to mediocre self, Wisconsin has now shown it was never any good.

So, who will be the first here to step up and argue that ESPN (aka, ACC) is correct in asserting that the B1G sucks!!! ?
Beauty of the tourney is that we get to prove them wrong.
 
Yes, but as TC4Three said, that's much harder to do when others are seeded for success and B1G teams are seeded for failure. Think 1988, for those old enough to recall.
If your team loses because the main stream media is biased against it and gets a 5 seed instead of a 4 and then promptly loses to a 12 seed, they were never championship material to begin with. Get over it.
 
If your team loses because the main stream media is biased against it and gets a 5 seed instead of a 4 and then promptly loses to a 12 seed, they were never championship material to begin with. Get over it.

How about Purdue goes to Milwaukee rather than Indy, or Syracuse rather than Cincinnati?

As I said to you before, go cheer for Butler.
 
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And you'll probably be glad Butler ends up in Indy for losing 6 regular season games in the mighty Big East, while Purdue gets shipped to Milwaukee for winning the B1G title outright by a 2-game margin.
Actually I expect both of them to probably be in Milwaukee, assuming both teams win two more games.
 
Yes, but as TC4Three said, that's much harder to do when others are seeded for success and B1G teams are seeded for failure. Think 1988, for those old enough to recall.
Huh? We were a 1 seed, played in South Bend first 2 rounds, then played KSU in Detroit.
 
If your team loses because the main stream media is biased against it and gets a 5 seed instead of a 4 and then promptly loses to a 12 seed, they were never championship material to begin with. Get over it.
Exactly... A high seed, 1 or 2 only equals an easier game in the first round. If you can't beat an ALR, you weren't good enough to begin with. This year especially, the tourney is wide open. No better time for Purdue to break through to the FF.
 
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Click on Champ Week under NCAAM on the ESPN website. They give an audio run down of the various conferences and their likely success in the NCAAT. Pac 12 has 3 legit title contenders. B1G has none, and the B1GT is a toss up of mediocres. Purdue might be favorite because it has Caleb and no one else does. Minnie is hot but MD has reverted to mediocre self, Wisconsin has now shown it was never any good.

So, who will be the first here to step up and argue that ESPN (aka, ACC) is correct in asserting that the B1G sucks!!! ?
Man. Cancel the post season
 
Exactly... A high seed, 1 or 2 only equals an easier game in the first round. If you can't beat an ALR, you weren't good enough to begin with. This year especially, the tourney is wide open. No better time for Purdue to break through to the FF.

Good argument for making Purdue a #5 seed this year.

Hell, if you're good enough to win it all, then seeding makes no difference, right?!

Again, who is the "we" in "we let it happen"?
 
Is it wrong to cheer for Butler too? Is Ball State OK? How about ND? Or do we all have to just cheer for the Black and Gold?

Wow, some of you knuckleheads will argue about, or take offense at, anything.

Wrong? WTF does that even mean? Wrong? As in morally wrong? NO!

But if you claim to be a "Purdue fan" and you support a team Purdue is competing with for a seed in Indy, and you argue Purdue deserves no better seeding than ESPN and Lunardi suggest, then that makes you a pretty weak "Purdue fan," I'd say.

What would you call it?
 
ESPN has it out for the big ten. There is no question about it. It is clear. This is as clear as day. Why that is we can debate, we cannot debate the fact that it's true because it is. They're deliberately diluting the value of the big ten and their agenda is anti-big ten. They're in favor of ACC teams year in and year out and display them at an advantage for recruiting purposes. It's been that way for decades and its time the Big Ten take this stuff personally. This is offensive and it has to stop. I've been frustrated for years watching it and watching them get away with it without being put into check. That is part to blame by the mentality instilled in the players and also more so the completely biased worship of them towards primarily Kansas, Duke, UNC, the rest of the fodder in the ACC, and Kentucky, coupled with anti-big ten sentiment. If another conference has a bad year you don't see them getting called out on ESPN. You might see negative print on them in the back of the newspaper in small hidden print metaphorically. IU beats both Kansas and UNC, Purdue almost beats Villanova, beats Notre Dame and suddenly the big ten is the worst conference in basketball history and Purdue should be a 4 seed as a conference champion 6 loss team with a 2 game lead on the conference. That's when a 7 loss Butler team and what is surely going to be a 9 loss Duke team gets the 3 seeds. Then Purdue wins 4 of the next 5 and ESPN says 5 seed. Maybe if they win Big Ten tourney they'll be lucky enough to be an 8 seed or a 9 seed.
 
I think Purdue is the best team in the Big - that's undisputable. I don't think any other teams have differentiated themselves enough in the national picture. The Big will not be seeded well. But it will be underestimated. What the national press refuses to learn year after year is that this conference beats up so much on each other that individual teams' potential is disguised by their record. It's not that we don't have a couple standout teams, it's that there are a lot of very good teams. It's probably less true that Wisconsin, MSU, and Maryland are playing down to the Minnesota/Michigan/Iowa/Northwestern level, than that those latter teams overperformed more than normal. All one has to do is look at conference RPI to see that we're only a fraction of a point below the three conferences above us, after having a bad November. And that consistently high level of competition prepares these teams like no top-heavy conference ever could.

Look at the team ranked one higher than Purdue - SMU. Only four losses this year. Impressive, right? But then look at their schedule. I bet they would have 8 or 9 losses and be unranked if they played in the Big. Games against Iowa or IU would be a toss up, and they'd lose their share while also dropping one or two to a bottom of the conference foe that they underestimate, just as nearly every good team with a Big schedule does.

Nobody can say which Big teams will make it to the 16, but history shows there will be multiple - and in the sweet sixteen it's likely that a couple or three will advance, with a very good chance one will make the final four. From there, it's a battle of matchups, X's and O's, and determination. I don't know how this conference will do, but I would bet a thousand dollars they significantly outplay their seeding and shock everyone with a couple big upsets - everyone that is, except for anyone who has payed attention to how the conference does year after year in the tourney.
 
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Two things that hurt the perception of the BIG:
1. Lost the ACC - BIG challenge
2. Both teams from last year's BIG championship game lost in the 1st round of the tournament. THAT was embarrassing and a black eye to the league.

I don't buy that the BIG will perform better than last year or that it is underrated. I hope I'm wrong.
 
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Two things that hurt the perception of the BIG:
1. Lost the ACC - BIG challenge
2. Both teams from last year's BIG championship game lost in the 1st round of the tournament. THAT was embarrassing and a black eye to the league.

I don't buy that the BIG will perform better than last year or that it is underrated. I hope I'm wrong.

Both points are notable, but not based on a large sample size - especially point 2. Regression toward the mean is a real thing, and the Big gets better as the season progresses. They work through their shortcomings against a perennially underrated schedule.

I bet there's no team in the country that will feel good about playing MSU as a 9 seed when they are an 8, and I bet dollars to donuts the vegas odds will not be in line with seeding in a game like that.
 
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Wow, some of you knuckleheads will argue about, or take offense at, anything.

Wrong? WTF does that even mean? Wrong? As in morally wrong? NO!

But if you claim to be a "Purdue fan" and you support a team Purdue is competing with for a seed in Indy, and you argue Purdue deserves no better seeding than ESPN and Lunardi suggest, then that makes you a pretty weak "Purdue fan," I'd say.

What would you call it?
I've posted on this board more than once that PU should be at least a 3. My question was "Is it okay if I cheer for more than one team in the tourney"? I happen to like Butler and the way they play, I like what ND basketball has become but can't stand their FB program with the current coach. I think I can be happy if another Hoosier State school is in the show....save IU but I want to see PU in the final game.....and winning it.
 
I think Purdue is the best team in the Big - that's undisputable. I don't think any other teams have differentiated themselves enough in the national picture. The Big will not be seeded well. But it will be underestimated. What the national press refuses to learn year after year is that this conference beats up so much on each other that individual teams' potential is disguised by their record. It's not that we don't have a couple standout teams, it's that there are a lot of very good teams. It's probably less true that Wisconsin, MSU, and Maryland are playing down to the Minnesota/Michigan/Iowa/Northwestern level, than that those latter teams overperformed more than normal. All one has to do is look at conference RPI to see that we're only a fraction of a point below the three conferences above us, after having a bad November. And that consistently high level of competition prepares these teams like no top-heavy conference ever could.

Look at the team ranked one higher than Purdue - SMU. Only four losses this year. Impressive, right? But then look at their schedule. I bet they would have 8 or 9 losses and be unranked if they played in the Big. Games against Iowa or IU would be a toss up, and they'd lose their share while also dropping one or two to a bottom of the conference foe that they underestimate, just as nearly every good team with a Big schedule does.

Nobody can say which Big teams will make it to the 16, but history shows there will be multiple - and in the sweet sixteen it's likely that a couple or three will advance, with a very good chance one will make the final four. From there, it's a battle of matchups, X's and O's, and determination. I don't know how this conference will do, but I would bet a thousand dollars they significantly outplay their seeding and shock everyone with a couple big upsets - everyone that is, except for anyone who has payed attention to how the conference does year after year in the tourney.
SMU got gored by Michigan earlier in the season.
 
ESPN has it out for the big ten. There is no question about it. It is clear. This is as clear as day. Why that is we can debate, we cannot debate the fact that it's true because it is. They're deliberately diluting the value of the big ten and their agenda is anti-big ten. They're in favor of ACC teams year in and year out and display them at an advantage for recruiting purposes. It's been that way for decades and its time the Big Ten take this stuff personally. This is offensive and it has to stop. I've been frustrated for years watching it and watching them get away with it without being put into check. That is part to blame by the mentality instilled in the players and also more so the completely biased worship of them towards primarily Kansas, Duke, UNC, the rest of the fodder in the ACC, and Kentucky, coupled with anti-big ten sentiment. If another conference has a bad year you don't see them getting called out on ESPN. You might see negative print on them in the back of the newspaper in small hidden print metaphorically. IU beats both Kansas and UNC, Purdue almost beats Villanova, beats Notre Dame and suddenly the big ten is the worst conference in basketball history and Purdue should be a 4 seed as a conference champion 6 loss team with a 2 game lead on the conference. That's when a 7 loss Butler team and what is surely going to be a 9 loss Duke team gets the 3 seeds. Then Purdue wins 4 of the next 5 and ESPN says 5 seed. Maybe if they win Big Ten tourney they'll be lucky enough to be an 8 seed or a 9 seed.
Well since ESPN just announced another 1000 layoffs from the company, it appears that quite a few folks are catching on to their many agendas and tuning them out.
I know I have really made an effort to watch the other sports outlets available
 
Click on Champ Week under NCAAM on the ESPN website. They give an audio run down of the various conferences and their likely success in the NCAAT. Pac 12 has 3 legit title contenders. B1G has none, and the B1GT is a toss up of mediocres. Purdue might be favorite because it has Caleb and no one else does. Minnie is hot but MD has reverted to mediocre self, Wisconsin has now shown it was never any good.

So, who will be the first here to step up and argue that ESPN (aka, ACC) is correct in asserting that the B1G sucks!!! ?
Remember a few years ago when a very average during the regular season UCONN team suddenly hit their full stride in their conference tourney and took the NCAA Tourney by storm with the likes of Kemba Walker? I'm not saying anyone in the conference is like that BUT Maryland does have a player in Melo Trimble and enough talent around him to make a deep run in the tourney. In all honesty, I wouldn't put it past the B1G to put three teams in the Elite Eight in Minny, Maryland, and Purdue given the talents of each team. And frankly, Whisky can go on a run with the big three they have in Happ, Hayes, and Koenig as well.
 
If your team loses because the main stream media is biased against it and gets a 5 seed instead of a 4 and then promptly loses to a 12 seed, they were never championship material to begin with. Get over it.
I don't think and perhaps I'm wrong...but don't think he was talking about any single specific pairing, but brackets in general. I know this...I'll take the field and ESPN can have their favorite almost every year. Just like the ACC/Big...that too can have a lean that favors one side. Now bottom line...you are going to have to beat some good teams where ever and when ever to advance to the end...but your first games could be harder than some others depending on opposite strengths and ref interpretation of that game. This is not about the best team, but who plays the best in a "single" game with whoever the NCAA wanted them to play against.

Give me the field...
 
Both points are notable, but not based on a large sample size - especially point 2. Regression toward the mean is a real thing, and the Big gets better as the season progresses. They work through their shortcomings against a perennially underrated schedule.

I bet there's no team in the country that will feel good about playing MSU as a 9 seed when they are an 8, and I bet dollars to donuts the vegas odds will not be in line with seeding in a game like that.
AS I said before...10 years from now or next year???? the best team in the Big should be a 4 at worse (almost always at least a 3) and the same goes for the ACC. What other conferances are going to provide that many better teams?
 
Remember a few years ago when a very average during the regular season UCONN team suddenly hit their full stride in their conference tourney and took the NCAA Tourney by storm with the likes of Kemba Walker? I'm not saying anyone in the conference is like that BUT Maryland does have a player in Melo Trimble and enough talent around him to make a deep run in the tourney. In all honesty, I wouldn't put it past the B1G to put three teams in the Elite Eight in Minny, Maryland, and Purdue given the talents of each team. And frankly, Whisky can go on a run with the big three they have in Happ, Hayes, and Koenig as well.

I agree, teams fall into funks and get on runs -- Purdue, Minne, Wisky, and MD could beat or lose to Butler or Nova on a given night, and I wouldn't put the odds on any such games far from 50-50.

With the parity in NCAA basketball today, it's just beyond ridiculous to draw strong conclusions about the current relative strengths of conferences based on a handful of inter-conference games played over 2 months ago. It would be like calling a regular season conference title winner after a quarter of the season based on the "logic" that we wouldn't learn anything from playing the rest of schedule. And penalizing teams for not beating teams they never played is even more ignorant!
 
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ESPN and every other sports site/station has to provide analysis and predictions. Who cares if they think we are championship worthy? Most thought Bama would whip Clemson a few months ago as well. Let's see how it goes in the actual games and then we can see how accurate they are in their prediction. They aren't going out on a huge limb after last year and the B1G's non-conference games (outside of 2 big time IU wins).
 
ESPN and every other sports site/station has to provide analysis and predictions. Who cares if they think we are championship worthy? Most thought Bama would whip Clemson a few months ago as well. Let's see how it goes in the actual games and then we can see how accurate they are in their prediction. They aren't going out on a huge limb after last year and the B1G's non-conference games (outside of 2 big time IU wins).

This thread isn't about trying to pre-judge who is the best before the games are played. In fact, it's about how ESPN is promoting exactly that, pre-judging teams across conferences based on very limited info, which is in turn stacking the seeding process so as to set up some for success and others for failure.
Granted, seeding would mean very little in a low-variance sport where the truly best team usually wins. But NCAA basketball today is a high-variance sport with tremendous parity. I'd venture this upcoming NCAAT could, in theory, be played 10 times and we'd have 8 or 9 different winners.
 
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I agree, teams fall into funks and get on runs -- Purdue, Minne, Wisky, and MD could beat or lose to Butler or Nova on a given night, and I wouldn't put the odds on any such games far from 50-50.

With the parity in NCAA basketball today, it's just beyond ridiculous to draw strong conclusions about the current relative strengths of conferences based on a handful of inter-conference games played over 2 months ago. It would be like calling a regular season conference title winner after a quarter of the season based on the "logic" that we wouldn't learn anything from playing the rest of schedule. And penalizing teams for not beating teams they never played is even more ignorant!
They have to use something. I understand that, but obviously there are flaws. Put all the teams in as a start
 
I've posted on this board more than once that PU should be at least a 3. My question was "Is it okay if I cheer for more than one team in the tourney"? I happen to like Butler and the way they play, I like what ND basketball has become but can't stand their FB program with the current coach. I think I can be happy if another Hoosier State school is in the show....save IU but I want to see PU in the final game.....and winning it.
I think so - my modus operandi is to cheer for the Big Ten teams in the ACC-Big 10 Challenge, NCAA tournament, etc as long as they are not playing or in any way threatening Purdue. [Admittedly with little or no enthusiasm when it is MSU or IU] I do the same thing when the Big Ten is playing"outsiders" in football bowl games - I want the Big Ten to look good/great. So I can understand why you would want Indiana to look like the cradle of great basketball!
 
They have to use something. I understand that, but obviously there are flaws. Put all the teams in as a start

I understand but I also wish they were smart enough to recognize that what they have in terms of relative conference strength isn't very reliable and they shouldn't place so much weight on it.
 
I understand but I also wish they were smart enough to recognize that what they have in terms of relative conference strength isn't very reliable and they shouldn't place so much weight on it.
The whole scenario has human bias. WE can only hope that the unethical NCAA finds ethics.
 
This thread isn't about trying to pre-judge who is the best before the games are played. In fact, it's about how ESPN is promoting exactly that, pre-judging teams across conferences based on very limited info, which is in turn stacking the seeding process so as to set up some for success and others for failure.
Granted, seeding would mean very little in a low-variance sport where the truly best team usually wins. But NCAA basketball today is a high-variance sport with tremendous parity. I'd venture this upcoming NCAAT could, in theory, be played 10 times and we'd have 8 or 9 different winners.
"Very limited info"? We've never had more objective measures of relative performance ever before in the history of the sport. If anything we have too much info.

And if we are high variance with low parity, that makes seeding less important not more. I don't disagree with your comment about 8 or 9 different winners, but again that means 3, 4, or 5 seed are essentially interchangeable. We could win or lose in any round at any one of those seeds.

Honestly you're getting too worked up over perceived biases that have zero bearing on whether we win or lose a basketball. If we lose in the first round again, I'm not blaming ESPN.
 
ESPN has it out for the big ten.

They always have and always will. That's why I don't watch them at all anymore. The BTN is more objective in my opinion.

As for the upcoming NCAA tourney, I think it is better for Purdue to play with the 'underdog' mindset. Be the hunter than the hunted. They may go far this year.
 
They always have and always will. That's why I don't watch them at all anymore. The BTN is more objective in my opinion.

As for the upcoming NCAA tourney, I think it is better for Purdue to play with the 'underdog' mindset. Be the hunter than the hunted. They may go far this year.
While I can't argue about ESPN and their agendas, not watching ESPN at all is not an option for me. I love college basketball too much to miss that many good games.
 
They always have and always will. That's why I don't watch them at all anymore. The BTN is more objective in my opinion.

As for the upcoming NCAA tourney, I think it is better for Purdue to play with the 'underdog' mindset. Be the hunter than the hunted. They may go far this year.
I wish ESPN had it out for me too considering the size of check they write to the B1G each year. It's an interesting ROI for them to give us millions of dollars a year and then work so diligently behind the scenes to insure we are unsuccessful.
 
While I can't argue about ESPN and their agendas, not watching ESPN at all is not an option for me. I love college basketball too much to miss that many good games.

Selective viewing with a lot of channel switching works wonders. And it's good practice for the upcoming tournament switching between CBS, TNT, TBS, and truTV. Wonder what the over/under for "Turribles" will be?
 
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