Did Carsen get injured?

[mathboy]

I saw where someone mentioned that the Motion Offense was not playing to Carson's strengths. I could not disagree more. The MO provides great openings for players who can drive, like CE. I can't think of a better offense for him to play in than CMP's Motion.

Now, to his bench time. CE made some bad decisions during the last 2-3 games, and needed to observe for a while. If he had stayed in the NW game, we probably would have lost it. Maybe it is the freshman wall, and he needs a little rest time instead of playing every game. With Painter, you win or lose starting time in practice. You must guess what has happened in practice, but I think it is obvious.

CE will continue to be a valuable asset in the NCAA games this year, and his growth next year will be astronomical. Wait and see. He will be a terror of the BIG next year.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Well he did score 18 points (2nd highest total in Big Ten games) and shoot .500 from the field. Not sure how many conference games you've seen him play better but it can't be that many.

I liked his first two minutes of the conference season, against TMHR. He played his most minutes against the Huskers. Those would be the likely candidates.

Candidly, I think both Carsen Edwards and Ryan Cline are figuring out how best to perform in the new starting roles.

 

[nagemj02]

I saw where someone mentioned that the Motion Offense was not playing to Carson's strengths. I could not disagree more. The MO provides great openings for players who can drive, like CE. I can't think of a better offense for him to play in than CMP's Motion.

Now, to his bench time. CE made some bad decisions during the last 2-3 games, and needed to observe for a while. If he had stayed in the NW game, we probably would have lost it. Maybe it is the freshman wall, and he needs a little rest time instead of playing every game. With Painter, you win or lose starting time in practice. You must guess what has happened in practice, but I think it is obvious.

CE will continue to be a valuable asset in the NCAA games this year, and his growth next year will be astronomical. Wait and see. He will be a terror of the BIG next year.

The spacing in Painter's motion offense is not as great as it would be in a spread-out, pro-style setup. That would be the ideal halfcourt set-up to run some pick-and-roll action or iso's for CE.

 

[tjreese]

I think everyone is missing my point. I agree CE was awful today and has been since the game before he was replaced by Cline as a starter. Cline also seemed to hit a wall since he's been starting, aside from the two 3's he hit in the OT game against PSU. My question is, if he's going to play anyhow, and he's been better most of the season when he's started, why not start him (especially since Cline has been better this year coming off the bench)? This is the time of year to get players on track that have hit a wall, not send a message. I don't think anyone here thinks that CE is a selfish player that needs to be benched. If the kid has more confidence as a starter, why not do it.

*********************************
I fully understood what you said above the first time and understand why you hold the position you do...and you could be right ...Carsen may play better starting.

That said, none of us know anything other than he is not starting. I do not think Carsen is selfish, but do think he doesn't make good decisions sometimes and think it is more of being a freshman than anything else. The margin for error also decreases as the season goes on. Everyone of the players on the team were major players in their highschool and all have had to improve areas beyond what they did in highschool. I must say, I have always touted Carsen as doing a good job on the ball on D, but his off the ball D has not been very good. Off the ball D is more about focus, scouting reports and just beating your guy to what he wants to do...and learning his habits. On the ball D is more about physical abilities and that is enhanced by the guy he is guarding tendencies. That difference just on that side of the ball tells me he has the physical abilities, but doesn't focus like he should and may approach D like he did in high school where he would not focus away from the ball but double when he could and use his quickness to guard others. There were a couple of times in teh game he was VERY lost on D...and the game before a possession or so where he was spaced out. I think the mental part is important and try to watch players in warmup and in the huddle when possible. I think it was the IU game where it appeared to me that he was going through motions and not really trying to warm up that I was disappointed in his approach.

Matt has to put together a team and the team can't be built around a freshman that is eratic...that freshman must adapt to the team's style adn approach. Now, I want Carsen to play and play well. He can't shoot the second most shots on the team unless he is on fire and he can't shoot until he gets on fire as others are pretty good as well. IMO, Carsen is the single player on the team that can break a game wide open and take Purdue another step, but his consistency was lacking some it seems in the games just prior to nto starting and in that first game he got about the same minutes even though he didn't start. Does Purdue win the last couple of games if he is erratic and shoots his numbers?

Everyone wants CArsen to get it together, because Purdue needs him. Purdue needs Haas as well. Both are struggling mentally right now and as Purdue gets against teams that do not know these two as well, the door will be open for both to play well and I expect them to do just that. The balancing act is ...does the team play as well if CArsen is holding back effort (mentally and physically) and starting him...."IF" another is not holding back? I'm not about to second guess the staff on what their expectations are and have been and for how long...I just hope Carsen AND Haas get through this. Imagine Haas...touted NBA as a freshman..playing really well his freshman year and sophomore year only to think his junior year would be his year to have as few a minutes or less than Carsen that hasn't completed his first year?

Purdue needs both players to go far. It was just a couple of months ago that many on this forum were wanting to dump Biggie and Haas playing together (Vince who Purdue needs was on the bench) to have a better team. Haas a junior went to the bench as a coaching staff decision and those same people sent the freshman there as well later on in the year. None of us know how long anything the staff wanted corrected in Carsen or why he was sent to teh bench...but I think everyone wants him to play like he is capable...and everyone (coaching staff included) know how crucial he can be...

 

[mathboy]

The spacing in Painter's motion offense is not as great as it would be in a spread-out, pro-style setup. That would be the ideal halfcourt set-up to run some pick-and-roll action or iso's for CE.

You are correct. Pro-style is a lot about 1-on-1, with the court spread. Carsen is too short for really good use of this offense, I think.

However, the motion can free up the dribbler at the top of the key for an easy basket if he can drive quickly enough. He can get to the basket with the defense still rotating around. The Motion works really well for kids with CE's talent

 

[TC4THREE]

Alright.

As a starter:
25 mpg
PER GAME 10 points, 2.7 boards, 2.2 assists, .9 steals, 2 fouls, 2 turnovers
37.7% from the field
36% from 3
76% from the line

From the bench:
20 mpg
PER GAME 10.6 points, 2.2 boards, 1.2 assists, 1.2 steals, 1.6 fouls 1.5 turnovers
38% from the field
32.6% from 3
64% from the line

Just wanted to make sure that everyone saw this since I took the time to do it. There doesn't appear to be much difference to me.

 

[tjreese]

Alright.

As a starter:
25 mpg
PER GAME 10 points, 2.7 boards, 2.2 assists, .9 steals, 2 fouls, 2 turnovers
37.7% from the field
36% from 3
76% from the line

From the bench:
20 mpg
PER GAME 10.6 points, 2.2 boards, 1.2 assists, 1.2 steals, 1.6 fouls 1.5 turnovers
38% from the field
32.6% from 3
64% from the line

What I suspected, but didn't know...no difference other than FT line which may be an indicator of coming into a game when in bonus as opposed to getting loose prior to bonus...I don't know but he gets 80% less time and produces the same! Did that 20% of his time he never got that he used to result in improved play of others that got those minutes...or improved team play...I don't know. Matt always talks about it being tough to come off the bench, but you have to b e productive. Now, all that data is on offense...we don't know the data on D

 

[TC4THREE]

What I suspected, but didn't know...no difference other than FT line which may be an indicator of coming into a game when in bonus as opposed to getting loose prior to bonus...I don't know but he gets 80% less time and produces the same! Did that 20% of his time he never got that he used to result in improved play of others that got those minutes...or improved team play...I don't know. Matt always talks about it being tough to come off the bench, but you have to b e productive. Now, all that data is on offense...we don't know the data on D

I wondered if maybe he tries to look to score more when he's coming off the bench. Like trying to make up for lost time to get his average or something? He does average 10 attempts per game in 20 minutes off the bench and only 9.5 attempts per game in 25 minutes starting.

 

[lbodel]

I'm not sure why this is such a controversial thread.

Carsen played 13 of the first half's 20 minutes against NW. Just because he didn't start, doesn't mean he didn't play. He didn't play well and others were (i.e. Spike), so his minutes were not there in the second half.

Against Michigan, he played pretty well and played 24 minutes that game. With our lineup of PJ, Carsen and Spike - that's a pretty good chunk of minutes (just as a point of reference, Mathias played 31 minutes).

It's no surprise - we actually have depth at the guard position (between PG and SG). So yeah, minutes are not going to be handed out like candy.

 

[tjreese]

I wondered if maybe he tries to look to score more when he's coming off the bench. Like trying to make up for lost time to get his average or something? He does average 10 attempts per game in 20 minutes off the bench and only 9.5 attempts per game in 25 minutes starting.

I think that would be a natural tendency...especially for one that was regarded as a scorer.

 

[nagemj02]

You are correct. Pro-style is a lot about 1-on-1, with the court spread. Carsen is too short for really good use of this offense, I think.

However, the motion can free up the dribbler at the top of the key for an easy basket if he can drive quickly enough. He can get to the basket with the defense still rotating around. The Motion works really well for kids with CE's talent

I disagree. His quickness and overall ability level makes up for being 5'11 or 6'0 tall. Would I like to see them run this all the time? No, I wouldn't, but I think it would benefit the team to sprinkle in that kind of set from time-to-time when CE is bringing the ball up the court. An iso for him or pick-and-roll action with Swanigan, VE, or Haas can certainly be successful at times against any team in college basketball this season.

 

[*4purdue*]

Alright.

As a starter:
25 mpg
PER GAME 10 points, 2.7 boards, 2.2 assists, .9 steals, 2 fouls, 2 turnovers
37.7% from the field
36% from 3
76% from the line

From the bench:
20 mpg
PER GAME 10.6 points, 2.2 boards, 1.2 assists, 1.2 steals, 1.6 fouls 1.5 turnovers
38% from the field
32.6% from 3
64% from the line

Those are Cline's numbers? I can't believe he was shooting 32% from the arc this year.

 

[cgnops]

You are correct. Pro-style is a lot about 1-on-1, with the court spread. Carsen is too short for really good use of this offense, I think.

However, the motion can free up the dribbler at the top of the key for an easy basket if he can drive quickly enough. He can get to the basket with the defense still rotating around. The Motion works really well for kids with CE's talent

Yogi is doing pretty well right now and is same height as Carsen, their game is different but i see enough similarity to warrant a comparison.

 

[mathboy]

When CE drives to the basket and the post defender is able to rotate over, it usually results in a blocked shot and a run out at the other end. CE must be aware of that post defender. A straight pro-style offense does not pull that post defender away in most cases. The motion does. Hence my opinion (it is no more than that) that CMP's motion offense is one of the best for CE.

Yogi s another story. He has learned to drive the basket and get above the basket before letting go of the ball. That makes him harder to block, but IIRC, most of Yogi's game is long range shooting, combined with dishing to his front court players. The pro-style 1-on-1 stuff would not be his forte anyway. His success is not in challenging the opponent's posts in drives. However, I say that not having watched him play in the pro game, so it is just my long-distance opinion.

 

[BoilerGal74]

you and TC4 are both correct in my mind. Matt lets freshmen play based upon performance. Carsen will be back...he is needed for more than scoring. Matt has great confidence in his abilities, but as a freshmen that did better on the ball D...he has got to focus ALL the time. HE in my opinion is one that can provide a missing ingredient for PUrdue when stuck. I was really impressed with how well Purdue played..except for a few bad rebound bounces and such. After running too much the first half, they remembered who they were the second and the grind set in. Againe, Vince and Biggie were really good...but the unexpected boost was Spike since he has played so little and the competitive spirit he brings. Spike knows his time is running out...his body is done after this year and he wants to win as bad as anyone.

My husband looked at me like I was nuts as loud as I was shouting "Slow Down" that first half( but how else were they going to hear me in Evanston?). And I swear our African Gray has been hollering "Slow Down" in my voice since Sunday.....lol!