Did a little comparison between Hope and Hazell's first three years...

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Danny Hope:

2009:
Overall Record: 5 -7
SOS: 33
O vs. D Comparison: 334 - 349
Average: 27.8 - 29.1

2010:
Overall Record: 4 - 8
SOS: 74
O vs. D Comparison: 236 - 345
Average: 19.8 - 28.8

2011:
Overall Record: 7 - 6
SOS: 28
O vs. D Comparison: 313 - 317 (350 - 349 w/ bowl game)
Average: 26.1 - 26.4 (27.9 - 26.85)

Darrell Hazell:

2013:
Overall Record: 1 - 11
SOS: 3
O vs. D Comparison: 173 - 456
Average: 14.4 - 38

2014:
Overall Record: 3 - 9
SOS: 43
O vs. D Comparison: 286 - 380
Average: 23.8 - 31.7

2015:
Overall Record: 2 - 10
SOS: 6
O vs. D Comparison: 301 - 438
Average: 25.1 - 36.5

I used Phil Steele's SOS numbers for this as well.

I like taking a look at raw data and comparing things we are seeing now to things we have previously seen, not only with the football program but with the basketball programs as well.

My personal take:
Yes we have seen some horrible football the last three years but the schedule has done no help to a coach who is trying to rebuild something from the ground up. I am not giving him a pass because many times the team simply hasn't been competitive and can't build on the small amounts of success they have had at this point. Not being able to build on the small successes is what inevitably get a coach fired during a rebuild and I think Hazell is on his way to that fate. I'm unsure of where the schedule will fall next fall but the best that we have seen the team under Hazell was the 2014 season with a SOS of 43. Unfortunately, Morgan Burke has done a completely terrible job of scheduling games to get wins and not being able to look forward enough to know that a program is built first on wins and that everything else is secondary. At this point, Burke may have to bite the bullet with some of these non-conference games in two years and pay to cancel them (if possible) and schedule easier games. Laugh all you want at what IU has done with the cupcake schedule but the fact is their head coach can clearly point to improvement under his watch and sell that his program is trending up with a bowl game this season...and one that they have a good chance of winning.

 

[OldStyle1902]

Please tell me we are moving either Louisville or at Mizzou in 2017? This makes absolutely no sense with a three game out of conference schedule and potential new coach.

 

[nat100]

IU's cupcake parade is coming to an end. Delaney sent a directive to stop scheduling FCS schools. That will take two wins a year away from IU (and 1 win a year away from Hazell).

As for SOS, that number is somewhat skewed. Hazell didnt have to face OSU or ND this year. Hope had to face both the years he went to bowl games.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

they are not even in the same ballpark. At least Hope knew when he did something right and when he did something wrong and to ride his best horses. Haze is off the rails. What can you even say at this point? It's getting historic.

 

[BBG]

You know things are bad when people are defending Hope.

I'd take Hope over Hazell any day of the week and twice on sunday.

 

[uncleboiler]

The Phil Steele SOS you used were pre-season numbers...not final season.
The final SOS after the season:
2015 27
2014 50
2013 30
avg. SOS 36

2012 48
2011 65
2010 52
avg. SOS 55

hazell's schedule was a little more difficult, but 6 wins in 3 years is ridiculous.

ps: Indiana SOS:
2015 55
2014 46
2013 56
avg. SOS 52....15 wins

 

[lbodel]

The Phil Steele SOS you used were pre-season numbers...not final season.
The final SOS after the season:
2015 27
2014 50
2015 30
avg. SOS 36

2012 48
2011 65
2010 52
avg. SOS 55

hazell's schedule was a little more difficult, but 6 wins in 3 years is ridiculous.

The difference between 36 and 55 in the grand scheme of things is not that great.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

they are not even in the same ballpark. At least Hope knew when he did something right and when he did something wrong and to ride his best horses. Haze is off the rails. What can you even say at this point? It's getting historic.

Apparently you missed the whole rotate the QBs every quarter experiment that Hope put us through. Hope's coaching lost us multiple games each year. Hazell's recruiting and ACs are what's killing us now.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

You know things are bad when people are defending Hope.

I'd take Hope over Hazell any day of the week and twice on sunday.

I'm not ready to make that claim. I will give Hazell one more chance on hiring these two coordinators. If he miraculously gets two solid hires (not holding my breath) he still could be better than Hope.

 

[gelesen]

Apparently you missed the whole rotate the QBs every quarter experiment that Hope put us through. Hope's coaching lost us multiple games each year. Hazell's recruiting and ACs are what's killing us now.

Have you forgotten all the QB injuries under Hope beyond his control.

 

[uelnesm]

Neither of these are acceptable. Period. End of discussion.

Who gives a rip if the SOS was 43 or 32

There are almost 70 freaking teams in bowl games every year. For Purdue NOT to be in one of them is disgraceful.

Our absolute worst year should be no worse than .500

To be under .500 for 5 out of the 6 last years is a complete joke.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Have you forgotten all the QB injuries under Hope beyond his control.

Of course not but that wasn't my point. I've never been more upset about a Purdue coaching decision than when Hope benched Marve to start the 3rd quarter against ND. Maybe all of these years of mediocrity have worn me down, but for me I've always thought Hazell > Hope. And that's NOT a defense of Hazell. They've both been train wrecks.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

My point in all of this is that although Hazell has been a monumental disaster at this point (and as someone pointed out he may be able to get it corrected with good hires coming up), the schedule hasn't done him any justice in an attempt to rebuild a sinking program when he came in. The fact is, after that first year, Hazell and Burke should have sat down and planned out an OOC that allowed Purdue to be successful...even if it meant scheduling the sisters of the poor. The most important thing is W's to show and getting to a bowl game, The bowl committees don't care about anything else except that a team made it to 6 wins (or 5 if you are Nebraska this year). At this point in time, any W in the column is of extreme importance not showing that your OOC is difficult and then making excuses for it.

 

[RegionWarrior101]

My point in all of this is that although Hazell has been a monumental disaster at this point (and as someone pointed out he may be able to get it corrected with good hires coming up), the schedule hasn't done him any justice in an attempt to rebuild a sinking program when he came in. The fact is, after that first year, Hazell and Burke should have sat down and planned out an OOC that allowed Purdue to be successful...even if it meant scheduling the sisters of the poor. The most important thing is W's to show and getting to a bowl game, The bowl committees don't care about anything else except that a team made it to 6 wins (or 5 if you are Nebraska this year). At this point in time, any W in the column is of extreme importance not showing that your OOC is difficult and then making excuses for it.

Schedules are done YEARS in advance. It is impossible to come in like PlayStation and change games around. Take for example when we played Hawaii in 2006(?). That game was set up in the late 90s with the thought it would be an easy W, a nice vacation for Morgan and his buddies, etc. Then Hawaii was on a really good stretch and beat us.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Schedules are done YEARS in advance. It is impossible to come in like PlayStation and change games around. Take for example when we played Hawaii in 2006(?). That game was set up in the late 90s with the thought it would be an easy W, a nice vacation for Morgan and his buddies, etc. Then Hawaii was on a really good stretch and beat us.

That simply isn't true. I understand it isn't a playstation game and the schedules can just be poofed away. However, when MB saw the program starting to take a nose dive under Hope, he should have had the foresight to change around the OOC to easier matchups in the years where he was able to adjust them. At some point, MB has to realize it may cost some money to cancel those contracts but had he done that going in to Hazell's first year, the cost of cancelling and the securing wins would pay dividends later. That would, however, require MB to realize that he probably had to spend money upfront for a larger return later on. Seeing his constant under investment and neglect of the football program and facilities, I guess one shouldn't be surprised.

I would really like to see if, somewhere in his office, there is a pamphlet or notebook with a master plan for facilities after the completion of Ross Ade's initial upgrade about 15 years ago. I would be fascinated to look and see if anything in there mentions simply leaving the football facilities to deteriorate to the point of being the absolute worst in the B1G and if building newer non-revenue sports facilities would bring a return. If that's the case, why hasn't volleyball (which has probably been the most consistent winner in the last 10-15 years) hasn't gotten a brand new facility?

 

[boiler_pride]

Not to defend Hazell's inept coaching, but one thing that helped Hope is he had two world class defensive linemen in Kawaan Short and Ryan Kerrigan.

Short is probably the NFL's top rated defensive tackle and Kerrigan already has 1 Pro Bowl under his belt and is a sack machine.

Again - not defending Hazell. This game starts and ends with players before anything else and you need to find and recruit the best if you want to be the best. Just look at the basketball team. Getting Caleb here made us an instant contender.

Actually now that I think about it, with the talent we had at CB and DL, I feel like Hope's teams should have been really good defensively. Oh well, the past is the past.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Not to defend Hazell's inept coaching, but one thing that helped Hope is he had two world class defensive linemen in Kawaan Short and Ryan Kerrigan.

Short is probably the NFL's top rated defensive tackle and Kerrigan already has 1 Pro Bowl under his belt and is a sack machine.

Again - not defending Hazell. This game starts and ends with players before anything else and you need to find and recruit the best if you want to be the best. Just look at the basketball team. Getting Caleb here made us an instant contender.

Actually now that I think about it, with the talent we had at CB and DL, I feel like Hope's teams should have been really good defensively. Oh well, the past is the past.

I think that truly goes to show how important an OC and a DC truly are to a program. Lots of talent on the defensive side for Hope's teams but never could quite make it consistent. Although I'm not personally thrilled with Hazell having to find two coordinators instead of starting over this next year, if he gets two guys who are above average quality wise, the program could see a jump. The question is, if Hazell gets those hires will he dump an OC/DC if the chance comes along to improve the staff?

 

[RegionWarrior101]

That simply isn't true. I understand it isn't a playstation game and the schedules can just be poofed away. However, when MB saw the program starting to take a nose dive under Hope, he should have had the foresight to change around the OOC to easier matchups in the years where he was able to adjust them. At some point, MB has to realize it may cost some money to cancel those contracts but had he done that going in to Hazell's first year, the cost of cancelling and the securing wins would pay dividends later. That would, however, require MB to realize that he probably had to spend money upfront for a larger return later on. Seeing his constant under investment and neglect of the football program and facilities, I guess one shouldn't be surprised.

I just don't see how you can adjust the schedule in the short term. Like now we are locked up until 2018. 3 more full seasons plus a scattered ND and Nevada matchups. In the old days you could add a 12th game as a "Pigskin Classic." But as for changing that is tough.

And where would we go to find cupcakes? MAC? CUSA? We were 0-2 against those outfits this year. 5-5 against the MAC in last 10. Hard to find people to beat.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

What I am saying is that back in the year that MB hired Hazell, he and Hazell should have sat down and discussed the importance of an easier schedule in the future and made changes THEN. Had they done that, the schedule for next season and moving forward could have been changed easily. The problem is that MB, IMHO, simply doesn't see that the most important aspect to rebuild a program is wins. I'm not advocating scheduling FCS teams but I am sure there are plenty of Sunbelt, WAC, lower level MAC, Mountain West and Conference USA teams that Purdue could easily schedule to get to 3-1 or 4-0 EVERY SINGLE YEAR until they get to a level to compete with better teams.

With the dropping of Notre Dame, Purdue could easily have scheduled one mid-level to low level Power 5 conference team (Kansas, Kentucky, Vandy, Colorado, Iowa State, Syracuse, NC State, Wake Forest) or a team from the AAC (UCONN, Memphis, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, Navy, ECU, UCF). With one to two of those games per year, sprinkle in the cupcakes and Purdue would have had a real shot at 3-1 or potentially 4-0 in the OOC. The Marshall loss was literally a blow that Hazell wasn't able to bring the team back from and had that been a W, I think Purdue could have gotten to 4 wins or potentially 5 this season.

My point is this though: Hazell sold himself to MB as a man who wanted to rebuild every aspect of the program in to one that would have a lasting effect. With that knowledge, they should have made the things in their control as easy as possible. Scheduling is one of those aspects that, although the first two or three years probably couldn't have been changed, they could have made those changes this upcoming season back in 2013. Other things in their realm of control are facilities, staff, and recruiting. If those are the things within their realm of control, show me which of those things are the absolute easiest thing to control? Recruiting and scheduling would be at the top of my list.

 

[nat100]

Hazell lost to a Conference USA team and what was a mid level MAC team in 2013. He should have been 3-1 OOC this year. Schedule is a small part of the problem.

Historically terrible coaching is the bulk of the issue.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Hazell lost to a Conference USA team and what was a mid level MAC team in 2013. He should have been 3-1 OOC this year. Schedule is a small part of the problem.

Historically terrible coaching is the bulk of the issue.

And I have said that in this thread previously, however I am saying that before MB knew that Hazell would be a huge failure (up to this point), you make things as easy as possible when faced with a rebuild of this proportion. Scheduling is one of those things that COULD have and SHOULD have been changed.

 

[nat100]

And I have said that in this thread previously, however I am saying that before MB knew that Hazell would be a huge failure (up to this point), you make things as easy as possible when faced with a rebuild of this proportion. Scheduling is one of those things that COULD have and SHOULD have been changed.

The rebuild narrative didnt come in until this year. In 2013 his comments pointed to taking a middling team to the next level.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

The rebuild narrative didnt come in until this year. In 2013 his comments pointed to taking a middling team to the next level.

I think most would agree that if MB was a competent AD, he could easily have seen and had discussions with Hazell about what was needed to take the team away from decline and back to respectability. The issue is that MB either failed to recognize it or attempted to once again cheap his way out of striking lighting in a bottle again with Hazell. This time he cheaped out on facilities and fan amenities instead of coaching salaries.

 

[RegionWarrior101]

What I am saying is that back in the year that MB hired Hazell, he and Hazell should have sat down and discussed the importance of an easier schedule in the future and made changes THEN. Had they done that, the schedule for next season and moving forward could have been changed easily. The problem is that MB, IMHO, simply doesn't see that the most important aspect to rebuild a program is wins. I'm not advocating scheduling FCS teams but I am sure there are plenty of Sunbelt, WAC, lower level MAC, Mountain West and Conference USA teams that Purdue could easily schedule to get to 3-1 or 4-0 EVERY SINGLE YEAR until they get to a level to compete with better teams.

With the dropping of Notre Dame, Purdue could easily have scheduled one mid-level to low level Power 5 conference team (Kansas, Kentucky, Vandy, Colorado, Iowa State, Syracuse, NC State, Wake Forest) or a team from the AAC (UCONN, Memphis, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, Navy, ECU, UCF). With one to two of those games per year, sprinkle in the cupcakes and Purdue would have had a real shot at 3-1 or potentially 4-0 in the OOC. The Marshall loss was literally a blow that Hazell wasn't able to bring the team back from and had that been a W, I think Purdue could have gotten to 4 wins or potentially 5 this season.

My point is this though: Hazell sold himself to MB as a man who wanted to rebuild every aspect of the program in to one that would have a lasting effect. With that knowledge, they should have made the things in their control as easy as possible. Scheduling is one of those aspects that, although the first two or three years probably couldn't have been changed, they could have made those changes this upcoming season back in 2013. Other things in their realm of control are facilities, staff, and recruiting. If those are the things within their realm of control, show me which of those things are the absolute easiest thing to control? Recruiting and scheduling would be at the top of my list.

I want to say the Nevada game was booked in 2010? Before Darrell. Same with Cincinnati. So you have an FCS team in EKU, a WAC team, and a Big Least team to play. Also with that logic you could have said in the mid 2000s "lets book Baylor, they are a 3-9 Big 12 Team" then come 2011 they would whip you. Same thing with Ole Miss. Mississippi State. It goes the other way too. It is not like we are playing Alabama, USC, Clemson in the non conference. Those 3 should be winnable games.

 

[TC4THREE]

Have you forgotten all the QB injuries under Hope beyond his control.

Also, Burke gave Hazell more money and more money to hire his staff than Hope got. Hope was trying to compete with Big Ten peers but did not have a competitive wage to offer his staff.

 

[TC4THREE]

And I have said that in this thread previously, however I am saying that before MB knew that Hazell would be a huge failure (up to this point), you make things as easy as possible when faced with a rebuild of this proportion. Scheduling is one of those things that COULD have and SHOULD have been changed.

One problem with this is that it makes an already horrendous season ticket situation even worse. Nobody is paying to see us play terrible non-conference games. Did you see the near full house against Virginia Tech? It was a big game and people were excited. The team just didn't deliver at all. I have been to three home games for this coaching staff (1 per year) and they have yet to keep me at the game into the fourth quarter. The fans have given this staff the benefit of the doubt going into each new season and each season they fail to even be consistently competitive. Scheduling automatic wins does nothing but mask the problem.

 

[nat100]

One problem with this is that it makes an already horrendous season ticket situation even worse. Nobody is paying to see us play terrible non-conference games. Did you see the near full house against Virginia Tech? It was a big game and people were excited. The team just didn't deliver at all. I have been to three home games for this coaching staff (1 per year) and they have yet to keep me at the game into the fourth quarter. The fans have given this staff the benefit of the doubt going into each new season and each season they fail to even be consistently competitive. Scheduling automatic wins does nothing but mask the problem.

Agree with this. The home schedule this year wasnt one that would draw the casual fan. They have to have a big name to generate sales

 

[BoilerBulldog]

One problem with this is that it makes an already horrendous season ticket situation even worse. Nobody is paying to see us play terrible non-conference games. Did you see the near full house against Virginia Tech? It was a big game and people were excited. The team just didn't deliver at all. I have been to three home games for this coaching staff (1 per year) and they have yet to keep me at the game into the fourth quarter. The fans have given this staff the benefit of the doubt going into each new season and each season they fail to even be consistently competitive. Scheduling automatic wins does nothing but mask the problem.

Completely agree. Dumbing down on schedule makes no sense.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Completely agree. Dumbing down on schedule makes no sense.

What would draw the casual fan to the stadium on a consistent basis, generate publicity, and build your program...scheduling guaranteed losses against teams like Missouri, VT, etc or getting W's in the column which leads to better recruits getting on campus. No recruit is going to come to Purdue with the pitch that we play a hard schedule and that's why we have won a total of 6 games in 3 years. It may not be a ton of fun to admit but the fact is Purdue NEEDS to dumb their schedule down or it isn't going to get better any time soon.

 

[loftygoal]

What would draw the casual fan to the stadium on a consistent basis, generate publicity, and build your program...scheduling guaranteed losses against teams like Missouri, VT, etc or getting W's in the column which leads to better recruits getting on campus. No recruit is going to come to Purdue with the pitch that we play a hard schedule and that's why we have won a total of 6 games in 3 years. It may not be a ton of fun to admit but the fact is Purdue NEEDS to dumb their schedule down or it isn't going to get better any time soon.

I agree with this. Winning will generate interest and ticket sales, not watching us get trounced. The problem is that we've been the only consistently crummy team for the past several years. The only way for us to schedule "sure" winners is to put more FCS teams on the schedule.

 

[nat100]

Big Ten has banned members from scheduling FCS schools going forward.

 

[ahhculdee]

Can we schedule North Texas and Idaho then?

 

[nat100]

Can we schedule North Texas and Idaho then?

They fbs?

 

[ahhculdee]

They fbs?

Yeah, Sun Belt and C-USA. North Texas was god-awful this season and lost 66-7 to Portland State(FCS team), after which they fired their coach and Idaho is just barely holding on to staying in FBS since the WAC dissolved. I'd be scared to play even Georgia State at this point, they made a bowl game this season and had a huge passing attackm