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Daniels response...what have others heard?

The only reason he came back is because Purdue got caught with its pants down with a lame duck AD. It wasn't the buyout or what not - they couldn't fire him and hire a new coach with a lame duck AD (which has nothing to do with whether you like him or not)

They can't really hire a new coach in the middle of the season either. If it was a good enough excuse to bring him back you might as well let him coach the season out at this point in my opinion. I see no upside to being without a coach for the next couple months.
 
I don't think you let him coach the season out all the way but you make him recruit in earnest until the last few weeks of the season and do it then. Maybe fire him before the IU game and motivate the players to try and win.
 
They can't really hire a new coach in the middle of the season either. If it was a good enough excuse to bring him back you might as well let him coach the season out at this point in my opinion. I see no upside to being without a coach for the next couple months.

If the coach is a part of the problem both in terms of game management and the culture of the program, then there is upside.
 
I know Mitch and him firing off a "testy" email to someone is entirely within his repertoire.

Yep

That being said, he wasn't president when Hazell washed. he may have been told about it, but at that point he knew nothing about of The Morgue ran things and, frankly, did;t give a damn about the athletic situation at Purdue.

Not true. I worked at the state during the time and directly reported to one of the people who works for him at Purdue now. He knew lots about the AD, to the point that my boss asked me a number of questions on behalf of MD, especially concerning the Painter cheerleader rumors and the football coaching transition. Never really asked my opinion but asked me for general fan reaction and scuttlebutt. I told him to have Mitch join Rivals.
 
Yep



Not true. I worked at the state during the time and directly reported to one of the people who works for him at Purdue now. He knew lots about the AD, to the point that my boss asked me a number of questions on behalf of MD, especially concerning the Painter cheerleader rumors and the football coaching transition. Never really asked my opinion but asked me for general fan reaction and scuttlebutt. I told him to have Mitch join Rivals.
Interesting, thank you. He told me exactly the opposite.
 
I will give Daniels credit where it is due. He has done some great things for Purdue, especially given the utterly craptastic situation Cordova put Purdue in athletically and academically. I still don't agree with most of his policies as Governor (especially working in the public education system), but he has done some good things in cleaning up the obvious wasteful ways Purdue was falling in to.

90% of the budget of academic units is salary. There was no obvious wasteful ways. The academic side is getting Burked.
 
90% of the budget of academic units is salary. There was no obvious wasteful ways. The academic side is getting Burked.
Not true. This article is from the Wall Street Journal....


At Purdue, a Case Study in Cost Cuts
Former Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels, Now University President, Spurs Rethinking on Value of a Degree


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ENLARGE
Purdue University President Mitch Daniels, at right in graduation garb, has been slashing expenses to keep students' costs in check.TAYLOR GLASCOCK FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
By
DOUGLAS BELKIN
Updated July 25, 2014 7:22 p.m. ET
82 COMMENTS

WEST LAFAYETTE, Ind.—Three months into his tenure as president of Purdue University, Mitch Daniels leaned over a table covered with financial statements and pointed to items labeled "cash" sprinkled throughout the pages.

"That's part of the endowment, right?" Mr. Daniels asked the school's treasurer. "Nope," the treasurer said, "that's cash."

Mr. Daniels suggested the rainy-day funds, which totaled "somewhere in the mid-nine figures" and were kept by a host of academic departments for operating expenses, be moved out of low-interest-bearing accounts and put to better use.


It was the first of many steps Mr. Daniels has taken as he seeks to reorganize Purdue's sometimes-antiquated systems. A year and a half into his tenure, Mr. Daniels has frozen tuition (for the first time in 36 years), cut the cost of student food by 10% and introduced volume purchasing to take advantage of economies of scale.

In May, he rolled out the first results from a Gallup poll of 30,000 college graduates from hundreds of schools aimed at discerning what value a university education adds to a person's success and well-being. The results have shed new light on a question that has moved to center stage in higher education: What is the real return on investment for a college degree?

With the poll, the former two-term Republican governor of Indiana is drawing a line in the sand against which U.S. higher education can be measured. And by freezing tuition, he is forcing his own school to modernize its 19th-century business model with a combination of systemic cuts, organizational realignments and cash incentives.

"This place was not built to be efficient," Mr. Daniels said when asked about the structural changes he was making at Purdue. But "you're not going to find many places where you just take a cleaver and hack off a big piece of fat. Just like a cow, it's marbled through the whole enterprise."

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ENLARGE
Jamie Merisotis, president of the Lumina Foundation, a nonprofit focused on increasing postsecondary credentials in the U.S. that teamed with Purdue to produce the Gallup survey, lauded Mr. Daniels's efforts. "He understands that higher education has to evolve to serve the nation's needs," he said.

The stress fractures created by forcing tradition-bound institutions to play by new rules has put university presidents across the country in the cross hairs as they are caught between boards of trustees demanding change and faculties urging caution. Mr. Daniels's path to consolidating support on his own campus hasn't been without friction.

Soon after taking over as president, faculty questioned his commitment to academic freedom over emails he sent as governor lambasting leftist historian Howard Zinn and asking if his books were being taught in Indiana. Instead of backing off, Mr. Daniels doubled down on his criticism of Mr. Zinn's writings. Campus protests ensued.

A few months later, Mr. Daniels kicked up a second dust storm by using a university plane to fly to a conservative conference. After this blowup, he promised to steer clear of partisan politics during the rest of his tenure as president.

His actions—and a charm offensive conducted around lunch and dinner tables—have helped smooth the bumps. Last fall, the marching band spelled out M-I-T-C-H during the halftime of the Purdue-Notre Dame football game. Then Mr. Daniels won a standing ovation as he drove his Harley-Davidson onto the field.

Still, criticism has come from both directions. Some think he is moving too fast, others not fast enough when it comes to cutting student costs.

"A [tuition] freeze is nice but it seems to me the goal should be to chip away at some of costs that have made tuition go up," said Bekah Ticen, a 22-year-old English major who just graduated and is one of eight children of an Indiana factory worker. Even with Mr. Daniels's efforts, "tuition has gone up $1,000 a year since I've been here," she said. "Where is it all going?"

Most covers diminishing state subsidies. Mr. Daniels cut millions from state higher education as governor, but millions more pay for the administrative salaries that have ballooned at Purdue, along with most universities around the country. At Purdue, there are now 75% more administrators and staff on the payroll than there were 13 years ago.

J. Paul Robinson, a former president of the faculty senate, said Mr. Daniels's worth as a leader will be tied to his ability to prune that administrative bloat. "Let me put it this way," Mr. Robinson said: "A blind man on a galloping horse at midnight with sunglasses on can see the problem. The question is, What can he do about it?"

Mr. Daniels says he is consolidating administrative jobs where prudent and leaving jobs unfilled where the duplication of effort makes that possible. He has jettisoned 10 university cars, consolidated hundreds of thousands of feet of off-campus rental storage and introduced a higher-deductible health-care plan.

He has also created two, half-million-dollar prizes for the first department that devises a three-year degree or a degree based on what a student already knows, not the number of hours he or she sits in a class. This summer, the school offered 200 more classes than last year in an effort to speed time to degree and generate more income for the school.

"There's lots of opportunities" to cut costs, he said.

Meanwhile, the Gallup poll has already begun to reframe the national debate about what gives colleges value at a time when many people, including Mr. Daniels, foresee a shakeout in higher education after years of higher costs.

From his spacious corner office overlooking Purdue's quad, Mr. Daniels says that changes in higher education will create opportunities for those who are prepared. "There is real opportunity during a down market," he said. "If we handle ourselves well, on the other side of this we can get stronger."
 
Not true. This article is from the Wall Street Journal....


At Purdue, a Case Study in Cost Cuts
Former Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels, Now University President, Spurs Rethinking on Value of a Degree

What's "not true" about Boilermaker75's statement that "90% of the budget of academic units is salary. There was no obvious wasteful ways. The academic side is getting Burked."?

This WSJ article was misleading when it came out over 2 years ago and it still is. Not one tangible example of waste is mentioned in the article, despite Daniels' claim that it's "marbled" through the university, like fat in a cow. And the "bloat" J. Paul Robinson refers to is staff employed to oversee administrative operations that are either mandated by state and federal regulations or unavoidable in today's legalistic, PC environment. In the 2-plus years since the article, I've not heard of one tangible example of academic-related waste that Daniels has identified and eliminated.

The facts are, Purdue is losing ground in terms of national recognition in every major academic field because many of the best faculty -- especially up-and-coming junior faculty -- are leaving for more competitive salaries at other institutions. And this is happening largely because of the tuition freeze, the main purpose of which is for Daniels to draw attention for himself.

Purdue's tuition was already less than IU's, before Daniels' freeze, and inexpensive by any measure. The other effect of the freeze is the increase in out-of-state and international students, which has been required to make the budget work given that in-state tuition is frozen.
 
What's "not true" about Boilermaker75's statement that "90% of the budget of academic units is salary. There was no obvious wasteful ways. The academic side is getting Burked."?

This WSJ article was misleading when it came out over 2 years ago and it still is. Not one tangible example of waste is mentioned in the article, despite Daniels' claim that it's "marbled" through the university, like fat in a cow. And the "bloat" J. Paul Robinson refers to is staff employed to oversee administrative operations that are either mandated by state and federal regulations or unavoidable in today's legalistic, PC environment. In the 2-plus years since the article, I've not heard of one tangible example of academic-related waste that Daniels has identified and eliminated.

The facts are, Purdue is losing ground in terms of national recognition in every major academic field because many of the best faculty -- especially up-and-coming junior faculty -- are leaving for more competitive salaries at other institutions. And this is happening largely because of the tuition freeze, the main purpose of which is for Daniels to draw attention for himself.

Purdue's tuition was already less than IU's, before Daniels' freeze, and inexpensive by any measure. The other effect of the freeze is the increase in out-of-state and international students, which has been required to make the budget work given that in-state tuition is frozen.
OK, first of all there is a big difference between faculty salary and administrative salary. As clearly stated in the article, Mitch is cutting administrators, not faculty.

Moving "rainy day funds" into higher-yielding accounts is not "salary".

Cutting food costs by 10% and going to volume buying is not "salary".

Cutting 10 university cars and consolidating hundreds of thousands of feet of off-campus rental storage is not "salary".

Offering 200 more classes than last year in an effort to speed time to degree and generate more income for the school is not "salary"
 
OK, first of all there is a big difference between faculty salary and administrative salary. As clearly stated in the article, Mitch is cutting administrators, not faculty.

Name me one admin position he's cut? I'm not aware of any. Do we have too many? Only by the standards of a bygone era, for reasons I explained, like every other university in the country.

Moving "rainy day funds" into higher-yielding accounts is not "salary".

Really?! At today's interest rates! What would be these mysterious high-yielding opportunities?! So this move probably produces an extra $6 a year in interest income?

Cutting food costs by 10% and going to volume buying is not "salary".

Food costs are in room & board, not tuition.

Cutting 10 university cars and consolidating hundreds of thousands of feet of off-campus rental storage is not "salary".

How much did this save? 10 would be what % of PU's cars? ... immaterial, I'm thinking.

Offering 200 more classes than last year in an effort to speed time to degree and generate more income for the school is not "salary"

Of course it's not salary, but this is an additional cost academic units must bear and how do they do that when tuition is frozen -- and 90% of their budget is salary -- they don't give adequate raises, or counter offers from outside, and then they lose their best faculty and staff. And that's exactly what's happening.

Daniels is a politician first, a businessman second, and an academic third. Good Gov but doesn't know what he's doing as Prez at Purdue.
 
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OK, first of all there is a big difference between faculty salary and administrative salary. As clearly stated in the article, Mitch is cutting administrators, not faculty.

Name me one admin position he's cut? I'm not aware of any. Do we have too many? Only by the standards of a bygone era, for reasons I explained, like every other university in the country.

Moving "rainy day funds" into higher-yielding accounts is not "salary".

Really?! At today's interest rates! What would be these mysterious high-yielding opportunities?! So this move probably produces an extra $6 a year in interest income?

Cutting food costs by 10% and going to volume buying is not "salary".

Food costs are in room & board, not tuition.

Cutting 10 university cars and consolidating hundreds of thousands of feet of off-campus rental storage is not "salary".

How much did this save? 10 would be what % of PU's cars? ... immaterial, I'm thinking.

Offering 200 more classes than last year in an effort to speed time to degree and generate more income for the school is not "salary"

Of course it's not salary, but this is an additional cost academic units must bear and how do they do that when tuition is frozen -- and 90% of their budget is salary -- they don't give adequate raises, or counter offers from outside, and then they lose their best faculty and staff. And that's exactly what's happening.

Daniels is a politician first, a businessman second, and an academic third. Good Gov but doesn't know what he's doing as Prez at Purdue.

I've been associated with Purdue for 45 years. We have had some poor presidents, which is very sad because some great university presidents have come from Purdue such as Steve Sample at USC and Henry Yang at UCSB. But Daniels is the first one I am really worried about significant damage being done.
 
I've been associated with Purdue for 45 years. We have had some poor presidents, which is very sad because some great university presidents have come from Purdue such as Steve Sample at USC and Henry Yang at UCSB. But Daniels is the first one I am really worried about significant damage being done.
You mean serious damage like this?

Purdue Polytechnic High School moving forward in Indy

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Indianapolis Mayor Joe Hogsett, (from left) Purdue President Mitch Daniels, and IPS Superintendent Lewis D. Ferebee on Monday (Oct. 3) discuss the new site for the Purdue Polytechnic High School Indianapolis. (Purdue University photo/John A. Underwood) Download image
WEST LAFAYETTE, Ind. — Purdue University on Monday (Oct. 3) announced an agreement with Indianapolis Public Schools and opened applications for Purdue Polytechnic High School Indianapolis, a new STEM-focused charter school scheduled to open in fall 2017.

“For this freshman class, we were only able to admit 26 students from the entire IPS system. That’s unacceptable and someone has to find a way to do better,” Purdue President Mitch Daniels said. “We thank IPS and the city for this unique partnership, which we hope will build a new pathway to Purdue and to successful careers for future students from downtown Indianapolis.”

The challenges are not unique to Indianapolis. Among the 48,000 Indiana high school graduates in 2014 who took the SAT, only 101 African Americans and 156 Hispanics had SAT scores and GPAs in the range of the average Purdue freshman. Among that same set of graduates, only seven African Americans and 16 Hispanics fell in the range of the top 15 percent of Purdue freshmen.

Daniels said that if the Indianapolis high school can be made successful, the university would hope to open similar high schools in many of the eight other Indiana cities where the Polytechnic Institute already operates technology centers.



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Scott Bess (center), Purdue Polytechnic High School Indianapolis head of school, talks about the school’s new home with, from left, Bill Taft, executive director of Local Initiatives Support Corporation (LISC) Indianapolis; Susie Howard, Purdue Polytechnic Institute director of high school initiatives; and Joe Bowling, co-director of the Englewood Community Development Corporation. (Purdue University photo/John A. Underwood) Download image
Daniels, along with Dr. Lewis D. Ferebee, superintendent of Indianapolis Public Schools (IPS), and Indianapolis Mayor Joe Hogsett, announced that Purdue Polytechnic High School will be an IPS Innovation Network School and will be located at 3029 E. Washington St., in the former PR Mallory building, which is owned by the City of Indianapolis. During renovations, which are expected to be complete before the start of the 2018-19 academic year, the school will have temporary residence nearby at 201 S. Rural St.

Purdue Polytechnic High School is chartered by the City of Indianapolis.

"Today, the city of Indianapolis is thrilled to welcome the significant investment that President Daniels and Purdue University are prepared to make in this building in order to bring Purdue Polytechnic High School to the Eastside of Indianapolis," Hogsett said. "When the doors to the school open in a little more than a year, we will be doing more than merely putting Indianapolis kids in a high-quality educational environment, we will be helping the young men and women from Englewood and other Eastside neighborhoods reach their full potential, prepared for today’s fast-moving economy."

Joe Bowling, co-director of the Englewood Community Development Corporation, the neighborhood in which the school will be located, said the school fits perfectly with the goals of the Englewood neighborhood.

“Englewood Community Development Corporation is thrilled to support Purdue Polytechnic's partnership with IPS and their commitment to invest within our neighborhood and in our community's children,” Bowling said. “The new school is a critical component to our efforts, along with the contributions of dozens of partners, to revitalize the Englewood Neighborhood through Great Places 2020.”

Applications opened Monday for the school’s first students, those who will be ninth-graders in fall 2017. Space will be available for 150 students in the first year, and a new freshman class will be added each year, working toward a total enrollment of 600 in grades 9-12. Applications are available at the high school’s website at https://pphsi.purdue.edu/. Students who live within IPS boundaries will have first preference for spaces.

The high school curriculum will mirror the Purdue Polytechnic Institute on Purdue’s West Lafayette campus and serve as a pipeline to the college. Scott Bess, who was named head of school in April, and Shatoya Jordan, who will serve as principal for the school, will work with Purdue faculty on curriculum development. The process is under way to hire teachers for the school.



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An architectural rendering of the building exterior. Download image
As part of the IPS Innovation Network, Purdue Polytechnic High School will have access to transportation and food services provided by IPS. In turn, Purdue Polytechnic Institute and Polytechnic High School will provide professional development opportunities for IPS teachers and staff related to STEM education.

“We are pleased to engage in this exciting partnership with Purdue University, as it is certain to have a profound impact on IPS students, our educators and our community, Ferebee said. “With the expertise of Purdue’s faculty and research, we have the opportunity to inspire students and unlock their limitless potential.”



polyrender-interiorLO.jpg
An architectural rendering of the building interior. Download image
Planning for the new school has been in the works for more than a year under the direction of the high school’s board composed of leaders from Purdue, the city of Indianapolis and USA Funds. USA Funds provided a $500,000 planning grant, administered by EmployIndy, for the start-up of the school.



How it will work

Purdue Polytechnic Indianapolis High School will have open enrollment for a technology-based curriculum. The first two years will encompass problem- and project-based learning focused on science, technology, engineering and mathematics with a connection among those subjects and real-world challenges. Students entering 11th grade will select a specific pathway to master skills, earn college credit and gain industry credentials while learning in the high school classroom, at Purdue’s West Lafayette campus and in the workplace. In the 12th grade, students will complete an internship in their chosen pathway. As part of the program, Purdue also will provide programs that help students transition from high school to college and college-level courses. Additional information is available online at https://pphsi.purdue.edu/.
 
You mean serious damage like this?

Purdue Polytechnic High School moving forward in Indy

This High School will probably provide a great education for the children of some Indy residents, but it has nothing to do with the quality of Purdue University's academic programs. And it does concern me that Daniels is spending time and resources on this when PU's core academic mission is suffering, and he is apparently oblivious to that.
 
No I mean accumulated damage from many little things like this,

http://www.purdueexponent.org/campus/article_0fb45b11-6eb6-5116-9d4e-77022d952623.html

But most of the things I am talking about won't make it into PR pieces.

The University of Michigan raises their tuition and fees each year. For this current year the increase was 3.9%. Do you really think the gap is not widening between us and a place like the University of Michigan each year? I am all for being economical in the use of resources, but I want the president's primary focus to be improving the quality of Purdue, not providing a place where one can get a cheap education. It is clear what this approach has done for athletics.
 
No I mean accumulated damage from many little things like this,

http://www.purdueexponent.org/campus/article_0fb45b11-6eb6-5116-9d4e-77022d952623.html

But most of the things I am talking about won't make it into PR pieces.

The University of Michigan raises their tuition and fees each year. For this current year the increase was 3.9%. Do you really think the gap is not widening between us and a place like the University of Michigan each year? I am all for being economical in the use of resources, but I want the president's primary focus to be improving the quality of Purdue, not providing a place where one can get a cheap education. It is clear what this approach has done for athletics.
I assume you didn't read this part of your link:

"However, not all students thought the program was a good use of the University’s money.

"Patrick Smalls, a sophomore in the College of Engineering, said he’s glad Daniels made such decision and didn’t think the program was successful at what it was trying to achieve − incorporate a common learning system for all freshmen to foster a bonding relationship.

“I think the cons outweighed the pros for the program,” Smalls said. “No one hardly read the book. So why waste the money if it’s not working?”
 
I assume you didn't read this part of your link:

"However, not all students thought the program was a good use of the University’s money.

"Patrick Smalls, a sophomore in the College of Engineering, said he’s glad Daniels made such decision and didn’t think the program was successful at what it was trying to achieve − incorporate a common learning system for all freshmen to foster a bonding relationship.

“I think the cons outweighed the pros for the program,” Smalls said. “No one hardly read the book. So why waste the money if it’s not working?”

Right, let's allow a sophomore engineering major to have the final word on whether this literature reading program was worthwhile. Regardless, the point is, Daniels made the cut to save a few bucks, not to improve academics.
 
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Right, let's allow a sophomore engineering major to have the final word on whether this literature reading program was worthwhile. Regardless, the point is, Daniels made the cut to save a few bucks, not to improve academics.
Can you get it into your head? The reading program was not working. Incoming students were not reading the books. It was a waste of money.
 
[QUOTE="The other effect of the freeze is the increase in out-of-state and international students, which has been required to make the budget work given that in-state tuition is frozen.[/QUOTE]
This is what goes unmentioned...and ignored...and, that most outside of Purdue are totally unaware of.

At the expense of in-state students, more out-of-state students and far more international students were admitted at higher tuitions.
 
Can you get it into your head? The reading program was not working. Incoming students were not reading the books. It was a waste of money.
And you conclude this on the basis of the feedback from one student, when everyone else quoted in the article was supportive of the program, along with Boilermaker75, who apparently knows more about this program than either you or me. The issue is, was the decision to cut this program made because it wasn't effective, academically, or just to cut costs? From the article, it seems it was the latter. Regardless, it appears you're going to support everything Daniels does or says, even if you know nothing about it.
 
[QUOTE="The other effect of the freeze is the increase in out-of-state and international students, which has been required to make the budget work given that in-state tuition is frozen.
This is what goes unmentioned...and ignored...and, that most outside of Purdue are totally unaware of.

At the expense of in-state students, more out-of-state students and far more international students were admitted at higher tuitions.[/QUOTE]
That's right! Purdue is a STATE university and should offer the best deal possible to students from INDIANA! Now, if kids from other states and other nations want to pay top dollar for the Purdue experience, that's fine. Their high tuition payments help to support the greatest deal on earth for INDIANA kids attending Purdue.
 
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And you conclude this on the basis of the feedback from one student, when everyone else quoted in the article was supportive of the program, along with Boilermaker75, who apparently knows more about this program than either you or me. The issue is, was the decision to cut this program made because it wasn't effective, academically, or just to cut costs? From the article, it seems it was the latter. Regardless, it appears you're going to support everything Daniels does or says, even if you know nothing about it.
Are you brain dead to the "...giant leap for mankind..." that is being made by the creation of the Purdue Polytech high schools? This is the greatest outreach program to inner city kids that has ever been made by any university in the history of America.

You want a more diverse student body? Wanna reach down into the streets and pull these disadvantaged kids into an environment that will enable them to bootstrap themselves? This is it. I won't guarantee that it will succeed but there is no question that it is a fabulous effort.

And Purdue is anticipating seven more of these polytech high schools throughout Indiana if the first one is a success.

Now, you wanna compare that to this constipated book reading club?
 
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And you conclude this on the basis of the feedback from one student, when everyone else quoted in the article was supportive of the program, along with Boilermaker75, who apparently knows more about this program than either you or me. The issue is, was the decision to cut this program made because it wasn't effective, academically, or just to cut costs? From the article, it seems it was the latter. Regardless, it appears you're going to support everything Daniels does or says, even if you know nothing about it.

The last year of the program Daniels recommended a book, "Unbroken" by Laura Hillenbrand, which was not selected. The next year he cut the program. So one year he must have been supportive and the next year he decides the program was a waste of resources?
 
Are you brain dead to the "...giant leap for mankind..." that is being made by the creation of the Purdue Polytech high schools? This is the greatest outreach program to inner city kids that has ever been made by any university in the history of America.

You want a more diverse student body? Wanna reach down into the streets and pull these disadvantaged kids into an environment that will enable them to bootstrap themselves? This is it. I won't guarantee that it will succeed but there is no question that it is a fabulous effort.

And Purdue is anticipating seven more of these polytech high schools throughout Indiana if the first one is a success.

Now, you wanna compare that to this constipated book reading club?

I was pointing to one example that is known outside of Purdue with the termination of the Common Reading program.
 
The last year of the program Daniels recommended a book, "Unbroken" by Laura Hillenbrand, which was not selected. The next year he cut the program. So one year he must have been supportive and the next year he decides the program was a waste of resources?
Yes, exactly right. Events transpire. Things change. Watch a program that may seem to be a good idea on Day One but a year later, it becomes obvious that it isn't working. So should a university president stubbornly continue to support the failed program?
 
Are you brain dead to the "...giant leap for mankind..." that is being made by the creation of the Purdue Polytech high schools? This is the greatest outreach program to inner city kids that has ever been made by any university in the history of America.

You want a more diverse student body? Wanna reach down into the streets and pull these disadvantaged kids into an environment that will enable them to bootstrap themselves? This is it. I won't guarantee that it will succeed but there is no question that it is a fabulous effort.

And Purdue is anticipating seven more of these polytech high schools throughout Indiana if the first one is a success.

Now, you wanna compare that to this constipated book reading club?

I didn't criticize the Polytech HS concept. I just pointed out that it's unrelated to the academic quality of PU programs, and it's unrelated to the fact that PU's academic quality is declining because we're losing our best junior-level profs to other schools, because of the tuition freeze.
 
I didn't criticize the Polytech HS concept. I just pointed out that it's unrelated to the academic quality of PU programs, and it's unrelated to the fact that PU's academic quality is declining because we're losing our best junior-level profs to other schools, because of the tuition freeze.
I call BS on you right here. Show me a link that even vaguely suggests that Purdue is losing our best profs to other schools. That is nothing but crap that you made up.

The FACTS are that Purdue has recently expanded the engineering faculty by 100, enrollment is at an all-time high and this year's freshmen class is the largest ever. So I'm calling you out on this bogus claim that Purdue is losing our best junior-level profs to other schools. Post a link to support your claim or STFU.
 
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This is what goes unmentioned...and ignored...and, that most outside of Purdue are totally unaware of.

At the expense of in-state students, more out-of-state students and far more international students were admitted at higher tuitions.
That's right! Purdue is a STATE university and should offer the best deal possible to students from INDIANA! Now, if kids from other states and other nations want to pay top dollar for the Purdue experience, that's fine. Their high tuition payments help to support the greatest deal on earth for INDIANA kids attending Purdue.[/QUOTE]

Wow, you're clueless, really. Try processing thoughts beyond your blind loyalty to Mitch before responding. DG10's point wasn't that PU is too expensive for out-of-state and international students, relative to in-states. His point was that a consequence of freezing in-state tuition is that deserving Indiana HS students are now being denied admission to PU because proportionally more out-of-state and international students are being admitted to offset the financial effects of the freeze on in-state tuition. I.e., Mitch isn't serving a "free lunch." Tuition hasn't gone up for Indiana residents but it's also much harder for Indiana residents to gain admission now than it was just a few years ago.
 
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This is what goes unmentioned...and ignored...and, that most outside of Purdue are totally unaware of.

At the expense of in-state students, more out-of-state students and far more international students were admitted at higher tuitions.
That's right! Purdue is a STATE university and should offer the best deal possible to students from INDIANA! Now, if kids from other states and other nations want to pay top dollar for the Purdue experience, that's fine. Their high tuition payments help to support the greatest deal on earth for INDIANA kids attending Purdue.[/QUOTE]

http://www.iss.purdue.edu/Resources/Docs/Reports/ISS_StatisticalReportFall16.pdf

I heard these numbers late summer, so this is approximate recall. First Year Engineering can handle about 1,850 students, this year they had to take over 2,200.
That's right! Purdue is a STATE university and should offer the best deal possible to students from INDIANA! Now, if kids from other states and other nations want to pay top dollar for the Purdue experience, that's fine. Their high tuition payments help to support the greatest deal on earth for INDIANA kids attending Purdue.

Wow, you're clueless, really. Try processing thoughts beyond your blind loyalty to Mitch before responding. DG10's point wasn't that PU is too expensive for out-of-state and international students, relative to in-states. His point was that a consequence of freezing in-state tuition is that deserving Indiana HS students are now being denied admission to PU because proportionally more out-of-state and international students are being admitted to offset the financial effects of the freeze on in-state tuition. I.e., Mitch isn't serving a "free lunch." Tuition hasn't gone up for Indiana residents but it's also much harder for Indiana residents to gain admission now than it was just a few years ago.[/QUOTE]

To quantify that in Electrical and Computer Engineering 40% of the undergraduates are international, 30% out-of-state, and 30% in-state.



http://www.iss.purdue.edu/Resources/Docs/Reports/ISS_StatisticalReportFall16.pdf
 
I call BS on you right here. Show me a link that even vaguely suggests that Purdue is losing our best profs to other schools. That is nothing but crap that you made up.

The FACTS are that Purdue has recently expanded the engineering faculty by 100, enrollment is at an all-time high and this year's freshmen class is the largest ever. So I'm calling you out on this bogus claim that Purdue is losing our best junior-level profs to other schools. Post a link to support your claim or STFU.

Do you think Purdue publicizes that they're losing their best junior-faculty to other schools?

Of course not.

Just like we only learned about the penny pinching in Athletics when the effects became apparent and Painter called 'em out.
 
Wow, you're clueless, really. Try processing thoughts beyond your blind loyalty to Mitch before responding. DG10's point wasn't that PU is too expensive for out-of-state and international students, relative to in-states. His point was that a consequence of freezing in-state tuition is that deserving Indiana HS students are now being denied admission to PU because proportionally more out-of-state and international students are being admitted to offset the financial effects of the freeze on in-state tuition. I.e., Mitch isn't serving a "free lunch." Tuition hasn't gone up for Indiana residents but it's also much harder for Indiana residents to gain admission now than it was just a few years ago.
I am not knowledgeable on other aspects of this argument, but I posted this part on the bball board as well.

Regarding current trend of In state and international freshman:
In MDs Sept letter....
"We were thrilled to welcome our largest freshman class in recent history, roughly 500 students larger than last fall. The 7,243 new freshmen include more Hoosiers than recent years and a record number of students from minority backgrounds, up about 17% from last year’s class. By design, we reduced the number of international students in the freshman class by about 10%, but we are very pleased that they will be a diverse group in terms of country of origin, adding to our global and dynamic student body"

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I am not knowledgeable on other aspects of this argument, but I posted this part on the bball board as well.

Regarding current trend of In state and international freshman:
In MDs Sept letter....
"We were thrilled to welcome our largest freshman class in recent history, roughly 500 students larger than last fall. The 7,243 new freshmen include more Hoosiers than recent years and a record number of students from minority backgrounds, up about 17% from last year’s class. By design, we reduced the number of international students in the freshman class by about 10%, but we are very pleased that they will be a diverse group in terms of country of origin, adding to our global and dynamic student body"

qfTqJqyEzOzccr7RQfKZ0TCxYOajEPek9CeHHGVuzxRh6NhqIiDomhdoaVmZXpjkwzUZvENrTmFnpUC8BB0AwmFBOGOPUWcSun7pRB1nBt4X1RTh3Xj5Qev46otS5daqiLoNkx3RdhwgFjdKfRs=s0-d-e1-ft
Numerous qualified in-state students have repeatedly been denied admission since the inception of the tuition freeze...it is purely a PR move...every bit a misleading one sold only as a politician could and would sell it.

There has been a substantial focus on accepting more out-of-state students, and even more of a substantial focus on accepting international students...at the expense (literally) of in-state students.

It is a state University, but, it has not been run that way, at least in this regard...and many are not aware of that, and Purdue certainly has tried to avoid making them aware of it.
 
This High School will probably provide a great education for the children of some Indy residents, but it has nothing to do with the quality of Purdue University's academic programs. And it does concern me that Daniels is spending time and resources on this when PU's core academic mission is suffering, and he is apparently oblivious to that.

Why would anyone, after Daniels' clear agenda against the public education sector that left Indiana falling desperately in the national rankings of education, be surprised by what he is doing at Purdue? The man wants to privatize education to make it run like a business so he and others can make money off of it. Are you surprised by all the tests young students have to take during their time (hell, my nephew as a kindergartner was taking math placement tests his FIRST DAY!)? Do you know how much money those companies make to not only create those tests but then create textbooks and online resources that teach to that test?

Show me, across the board, how charter schools even remotely outpace a public school education and I'll point you to fudging numbers and hand picking high ability students to make it appear as though the school is doing well. What this comes down to is a new segregation that is not based on race but is based on ability and on economics...and it is truly sickening.
 
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Why would anyone, after Burke's clear agenda against the public education sector that left Indiana falling desperately in the national rankings of education, be surprised by what he is doing at Purdue? The man wants to privatize education to make it run like a business so he and others can make money off of it. Are you surprised by all the tests young students have to take during their time (hell, my nephew as a kindergartner was taking math placement tests his FIRST DAY!)? Do you know how much money those companies make to not only create those tests but then create textbooks and online resources that teach to that test?

Show me, across the board, how charter schools even remotely outpace a public school education and I'll point you to fudging numbers and hand picking high ability students to make it appear as though the school is doing well. What this comes down to is a new segregation that is not based on race but is based on ability and on economics...and it is truly sickening.
Saaay, maybe it was Mitch Daniels behind the grassy knoll in Dallas....
 
Numerous qualified in-state students have repeatedly been denied admission since the inception of the tuition freeze...it is purely a PR move...every bit a misleading one sold only as a politician could and would sell it.

There has been a substantial focus on accepting more out-of-state students, and even more of a substantial focus on accepting international students...at the expense (literally) of in-state students.

It is a state University, but, it has not been run that way, at least in this regard...and many are not aware of that, and Purdue certainly has tried to avoid making them aware of it.
oh bs. This has been going on since the mid 2000s. If you didn't get into Purdue as in state student, then you aren't a good student. Admissions are not that difficult. You also conveniently leave out that funds from the state have been dropping, decreasing by greater than 20M between 08 and 14. So no, it's not literally at anyone's expense.
 
oh bs. This has been going on since the mid 2000s. If you didn't get into Purdue as in state student, then you aren't a good student. Admissions are not that difficult. You also conveniently leave out that funds from the state have been dropping, decreasing by greater than 20M between 08 and 14. So no, it's not literally at anyone's expense.
Could not be more wrong...there are numerous qualified in-state students that have been denied admission, all in the name of accepting more out-of-state and international students, due to the increased tuition.
 
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I am not knowledgeable on other aspects of this argument, but I posted this part on the bball board as well.

Regarding current trend of In state and international freshman:
In MDs Sept letter....
"We were thrilled to welcome our largest freshman class in recent history, roughly 500 students larger than last fall. The 7,243 new freshmen include more Hoosiers than recent years and a record number of students from minority backgrounds, up about 17% from last year’s class. By design, we reduced the number of international students in the freshman class by about 10%, but we are very pleased that they will be a diverse group in terms of country of origin, adding to our global and dynamic student body"

qfTqJqyEzOzccr7RQfKZ0TCxYOajEPek9CeHHGVuzxRh6NhqIiDomhdoaVmZXpjkwzUZvENrTmFnpUC8BB0AwmFBOGOPUWcSun7pRB1nBt4X1RTh3Xj5Qev46otS5daqiLoNkx3RdhwgFjdKfRs=s0-d-e1-ft

Other than 2014, the number appears to be pretty consistent from 2011-2015 with obviously a huge jump this year. I don't know what the causes of the 2014 dip or the 2016 jump were but if this is valid it certainly shoots holes in the declining in-state argument.
 
Why would anyone, after Burke's clear agenda against the public education sector that left Indiana falling desperately in the national rankings of education, be surprised by what he is doing at Purdue? The man wants to privatize education to make it run like a business so he and others can make money off of it. Are you surprised by all the tests young students have to take during their time (hell, my nephew as a kindergartner was taking math placement tests his FIRST DAY!)? Do you know how much money those companies make to not only create those tests but then create textbooks and online resources that teach to that test?

Show me, across the board, how charter schools even remotely outpace a public school education and I'll point you to fudging numbers and hand picking high ability students to make it appear as though the school is doing well. What this comes down to is a new segregation that is not based on race but is based on ability and on economics...and it is truly sickening.

I think you're referring to Daniels' agenda, not Burke's. Regardless, I can't agree with you on this one. IMO, Daniels' "agenda," which is the current basis for funding K-12 education in Indiana, is not against public education. It's against the monopoly previously enjoyed by local public schools, which was, and is, abused by the ideologically-motivated NEA. The voucher system allows access to private schools by those who could not otherwise afford it, and charter's must admit a diverse demographic. Maybe the public schools work where you live, JDB; in which case, I'm happy for you. But they sure has heck don't work where I, and a lot of other Hoosiers, live. So I'm thankful the state implemented Daniels' K-12 funding policies.

Regardless, I'm done on this one -- don't want to debate K-12 ed here.
 
Could not be more wrong...there are numerous qualified in-state students that have been denied admission, all in the name of accepting more out-of-state and international students, due to the increased tuition.
actually everything I said is correct. If the student isn't top 25%, there's a good chance they will need to go to a less competitive school. There's more demand and less resources. Welcome to globalization.
 
actually everything I said is correct. If the student isn't top 25%, there's a good chance they will need to go to a less competitive school. There's more demand and less resources. Welcome to globalization.
Numerous students that are/were top 10% at premier schools in Indiana that have been denied admission.

Two students that are neighbors that were accepted at Ivy League schools, but denied acceptance by Purdue.

One student that was accepted at more than 20 other schools, including every other in-state school to which they applied, but denied acceptance by Purdue.

Students that received the highest academic scholarship available at other schools, the Presidential Scholarship, yet were denied acceptance by Purdue.

It is indeed more competitive today than it was in the past, but what you had said is absolutely not correct, and Purdue is indeed consciously denying more than qualified in-state students at the expense of out-of-state and international students, which plays a large role in why they are able to maintain the tuition freezes...and it is not public knowledge.
 
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