Conzo and Cal
- Thread starter takedownboiler
- Start date
I think his results would be about the same as Painter's here. We'd nab better recruits but I don't think we'd be as ready to play night in and night out and be getting as much out of guys like Vince and Dakota if Conzo was here.
Would be frustrating to nab all that talent and do nothing with it.
Would be frustrating to nab all that talent and do nothing with it.
Would love to see him come back as an assistant, but he will see no shortage of high major options.
Mizzou should lock him up if they are smart...Really love Zo but would be so hard to cheer against him in the B1G when we played his team....Just don't wanna have to go there.
I love him as a person and he seemed like a great assistant. His head coaching stints? Meh. Hasn't necessarily been at easy programs (one was a not great situation, one is a non-traditional team), but he hasn't done a lot after the recruiting stages it seems.
When he was coaching either the JV or Freshmen squad at West Lafayette I had heard he isn't really that great of a coach. I used to really want him at Purdue but seeing him go from school to school changed that. He's able to get some nice recruits at times but overall his teams haven't been very impressive. I don't want him at Illinois because I'll be forced to cheer for them.
Yeah, he seems like a good guy but personality-wise, he's kind of similar to Painter. He probably would recruit slightly better but on the whole, I think Painter is able to develop his players more, plus in terms of the details of his motion offense and man D, I think CMP probably has a more intricate grasp of the kinds of things he teaches his players to do on both ends for those schemes. Painter's teams (especially last and this season: I think the shot-clock being reduced to 30 seconds starting in '15-'16 + increased skill and experience have definitely helped in that regard) have been better offensive teams than Martin's.
I can't see Illinois going to the Keady tree again with how the split between Illinois and Weber. Cuozno is definitely cut from the same cloth as any of the coaches from the Keady tree...although thinking in depth about it, maybe they look at him closely because under Weber they were a good and some times very good team.
Not to mention defensively, we aren't a great defensive team this year - but it's really impressive how well they've adjusted to the NCAA rules over the past 1-2 years. That's coaching.
Illinois has a new, aggressive AD. They'll have money to pluck someone from a mid-major or a non-traditional basketball school in a power conference if they do make a change. I think it's a tough call right now for them and it will be interesting to see what they do.
Situations like Illinois - a short drive from Purdue - are why you gotta be careful what you wish for when it comes to not being happy with NCAA Tournament appearances. It's easier said than done to have success (let alone sustained success - look across the border to Ohio) - and Illinois is a school that should easily succeed at basketball. Champaign is a very good college town, it's has a great fan base, a good amount of in-state talent - and a lot of talent across the border, great facilities, etc.
Totally agree. Illinois should own the Chicago and St. Louis market as they had in the past and it seems they have totally lost that recruiting base as their ability to stockpile talent. The rise of NU and Purdue's ability to get a kid like Eastern shows Illinois under Groce has lost some of its' luster.
That's the difference between basketball and football. No program can ever really "own" the major talent areas bringing in 3 or 4 guys each year.
Plus AAU has really changed things. Top players now get national exposure.
Illinois is a quality program very similar to Purdue- more historic success than most but not enough NCAA Tournament cache to really attract the best players.
Plus AAU has really changed things. Top players now get national exposure.
Illinois is a quality program very similar to Purdue- more historic success than most but not enough NCAA Tournament cache to really attract the best players.
Living in the craphole that is IL I believe part of the problem at U of I is the total dysfunction that is the state of IL today. Money is being sucked away from the university just as it is from every other state supported entity all to keep buying votes for Mike Madigan and the Chitcago based Democrat machine. The money problem is beyond dire and only going to continue to get worse. People are taking their money and fleeing (my plan as soon as retirement hits in Sept) and companies are folding their tents daily. Hard to keep a basketball team afloat when the underlying university is having trouble maintaining faculty and staff unless you just turn your team into a basketball program with no underlying education to go with it.
No offense, but this is misplaced logic.
The athletic department operates separate from the university budget. I don't think Illinois is losing recruits because of some issues retaining professors and jobs leaving the central part of the state is not terribly significant either to recruiting. They have their own basketball facility, just did a massive renovation to their arena, etc. Champaign is still an attractive town and bring in big entertainment events to their basketball arena still, for example. What you are listing out is not terribly meaningful when it comes to having a good college basketball team.
Would it change how you view Purdue's defense this year much if I told you kenpom rates Purdue's adjO at 22 and adjD at 19 in the country?
It's all relative. Is this one of Purdue's "great" defensive teams? No. But doesn't mean it's bad. We just have high standards! And it's certainly been trending the right way...with just a couple hiccups.
He hasn't been at the best of programs. Look at Cal he is relying on a lot of guys he didn't even recruit. His best two players are Rabb and Moore who he recruited. Need to give him some time and let him get a roster full of his guys before he is truly judged.
He's had plenty of time all over and can absolutely be judged now.
Yes, you can't judge someone completely 2 seasons in. But he also didn't inherit a struggling program. Cuonzo took over a Cal program that went to the NCAA Tournament 4 of the previous 6 seasons and had 0 losing seasons (both years they did not go to the tournament they went to the NIT).
I have not posted here in almost a year. I was last here defending Painter after the 1st rd meltdown last year.
The GOAL is to make the NCAA Tournament. It is then basically a lottery ticket to make the Final 4. But Purdue has a ticket this year and IU, Illinois and OSU don't.
I don't get this obsession over seedings. Upsets happen. If you get a 6 seed or higher. Be happy...
When Purdue loses in the tournament. Whether in the 1st rd or Final 4. The Painter haters will be back on here. As far as I am concerned as long as Painter gets Purdue in the tournament. He has done his job no matter what the results are in the tournament.
There won't be much "Painter hating" if the Boilers at least win their Regional (i.e Final Four). Some of us here have never seen that in our lives. We want them to win it all, but I don't think many will be too upset if they would be in the Final Four and lose that National Semifinal game.
"In-state talent" means very little now, as most kids don't grow up just watching the instate schools. (See 4 top 50 kids leaving IN this year)
It means even less for Illinois, as most of that talent is in Chicago, and geographically they are no closer to it than schools like MSU, Purdue, Wisconsin, Marquette, etc.
If Collins puts down roots at NW, that will make it even harder for Illinois to recruit that area.
The knocks on Painter are not fighting for his players during the game & stubbornness. Particularly trying different defensive & offensive schemes. Not certain if either are facts but during games, he doesn't seem to have as much fire as some would prefer.
I meant it more as in there's talent in that general area - he's not coaching at Colorado where you have to recruit nationally to get a talented team.
I would also argue that in-state talent has always left Indiana for years. But yes, recruiting is less local-based, although those local kids are still ideal targets for a number of reasons (closer to home, familiarity both on tv and in-person, easy to visit/go to games for coaches, etc.). Recruiting is still heavily a relationship business. And it's a lot easier to develop relationships closer to home (home being campus in this situation...).
It would be interesting to see how NW progresses. Obviously a similar school like Stanford has had success building a program with football - and have done so heavily recruiting nation-wide. I'd imagine NW would be similar, but you never know.
I wholeheartedly agree that schools should have a leg up on local kids, due to the reasons you mentioned. Problem is, Champaign is 3 hours from most of the talent in Illinois.
not sure I would dog Cal too much...they are a bubble team this year with a great class coming in next year. They may be serving up some crow.
I'm not going to argue that the tournament can each year seem like a crap shoot, but there is plenty of data out there to know that seedings do matter over time. The higher the seed, the better chance to advance not only out of the 1st round, but also to the final four. There is a huge difference between a 6 seed and a 3 or 4 seed. Seedings do matter.
It's a PU basketball message board, so you could argue we obsess over everything PU!! It's why we are here.
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