Camden heide to transfer portal

[qazplm]

Well, it is a personal decision for them, but team should still matter and if they put in the work there is no reason to believe that Colvin and Heide wouldn't be getting starter minutes next year. I am a firm believer in finishing what you started but that work ethic seems to be fading. Looking at the damage so far, I can see why Berg and Waddell decided to enter the portal. I mean it is unlikely either one would have cracked the starting line up although they are both good players. For instance, if Waddell transferred to Northwestern let's say - I think he would get a lot of playing time. Idk, between sh*tty refs during the tournament and losing players left and right to the portal I am losing interest fast! Why put yourself through that just to be disappointed every year. I mean currently we still have a good core set of guys, and I will still be invested and still watching but if it gets much worse, then I am done.

There's every reason to believe they wouldn't get starter minutes next season. Cox, Harris, Cluff, Benter, Loyer, Smith, TKR, DJ, Burgess and almost assuredly even before they left another wing was probably coming from the portal.

Your starting lineup was going to be someone not them at the 5, TKR and Cluff getting almost 40 minutes at the 4, Smith getting near 40 at the 1, Loyer getting 30+ at the 2 and Cox getting at least 20+ spread in there.

What's left for one of them not to mention both of them each getting at least 20 a game? I haven't even listed incoming players or Harris yet.

I'm sorry but a lot of this is sanctimonious.

 

[qazplm]

You bring up loyalty....As a fan, are you loyal to the name on the front of the jersey or the back? To mean, you support whoever wears the jersey, regardless of how they got here.
Are you mad that Cluff is on his 3rd school? Is he disloyal or will you cheer for him just as hard ?

Yes. The same people cheering when Jones came or Cluff comes aren't lambasting them for not finishing what they started or being disloyal.

 

[Purdue0023]

You bring up loyalty....As a fan, are you loyal to the name on the front of the jersey or the back? To mean, you support whoever wears the jersey, regardless of how they got here.
Are you mad that Cluff is on his 3rd school? Is he disloyal or will you cheer for him just as hard ?

Loyalty for me is probably 50% for the team and 50% to the player. If you have a completely new team each year, I would be less invested and would not be watching every game. At its worst you would be only entertained by the skill of the player and not his personality as well because there would be no connection except what is learned over the course of one season. Part of the fun of college basketball for me was seeing your players improve year by year and grow as men and as a team and dreaming about how good they could become by the time they are seniors. All that anticipation and belief in a brighter future and the connection is now almost completely taken away. For me that was one of the big reasons why college sports was so much better than the professional leagues. As far as Cluff, he has progressed to a much better basketball school so hard to knock him for that. Can't say the same for Heide unless he ends up a starter for some blue blood program.

 

[DrEss]

At this point, the whole earning a scholarship to play is a farce. Just have these kids sign a contract to play for a school, and if they want an education with it, let them play for it themselves. The whole NCAA handling of this has been a clusterfu$&.

 

[qazplm]

At this point, the whole earning a scholarship to play is a farce. Just have these kids sign a contract to play for a school, and if they want an education with it, let them play for it themselves. The whole NCAA handling of this has been a clusterfu$&.

Well you know if they hadn't ruled with such a moronic heavy handed fist so that players couldn't even get rides in the rain or had to go through giant hoops to transfer, there was probably a path folks would have been satisfied with 15-20 years ago.

But they didn't see the handwriting on the wall.

 

[Purdue0023]

Do you believe your statement sounds hypocritical?

So, you want 'your' players at Purdue, but you also want to leave Purdue because 'your' players left....got it.

Actually, I don't think it is that simple. Loyalty goes both ways. I will always be loyal to Purdue and the university's mission, but if there are no loyal players and none that are a real part of the Purdue community then it all just seems like a fantasy league to me and all the fun is sucked out. I have better things to do with my time.

 

[Poprudy]

Actually, I don't think it is that simple. Loyalty goes both ways. I will always be loyal to Purdue and the university's mission, but if there are no loyal players and none that are a real part of the Purdue community then it all just seems like a fantasy league to me and all the fun is sucked out. I have better things to do with my time.

That was your statement not mine. To me it sounds hypocritical by stating my players should stick around because they committed to Purdue, but I'll jump ship if they leave...shouldn't you be more loyal to Purdue?

You are fine to do whatever you would like....just like the players.

 

[Purdue0023]

Yes. The same people cheering when Jones came or Cluff comes aren't lambasting them for not finishing what they started or being disloyal.

Meh. Both Jones and Cluff came to a much better basketball school and Jones was in his last year of eligibility (5th year) so that is a lot easier to accept. Cam leaving (with two years left) one of the best programs in the country (with National Championship aspirations next year) when he is so close to cracking the starting line-up is why on the surface I disagree with his choice.

 

[Purdue0023]

That was your statement not mine. To me it sounds hypocritical by stating my players should stick around because they committed to Purdue, but I'll jump ship if they leave...shouldn't you be more loyal to Purdue?

You are fine to do whatever you would like....just like the players.

I still like the program and will still be supportive, but to say that the new landscape that has become college basketball doesn't affect my interest would be a lie. I like all the players, don't dislike anyone, but it doesn't mean I agree with all their decisions.

 

[Purdue0023]

There's every reason to believe they wouldn't get starter minutes next season. Cox, Harris, Cluff, Benter, Loyer, Smith, TKR, DJ, Burgess and almost assuredly even before they left another wing was probably coming from the portal.

Your starting lineup was going to be someone not them at the 5, TKR and Cluff getting almost 40 minutes at the 4, Smith getting near 40 at the 1, Loyer getting 30+ at the 2 and Cox getting at least 20+ spread in there.

What's left for one of them not to mention both of them each getting at least 20 a game? I haven't even listed incoming players or Harris yet.

I'm sorry but a lot of this is sanctimonious.

Perhaps. I always had high aspirations for Heide and seeing how he could jump out of the gym I always thought he would easily be a starter next year but perhaps not. I always had thoughts of more alley oops from Smith to Heide as an almost unstoppable weapon. Not trying to be sanctimonious just expressing my selfish bias.

 

[Dryfly88]

Perhaps. I always had high aspirations for Heide and seeing how he could jump out of the gym I always thought he would easily be a starter next year but perhaps not. I always had thoughts of more alley oops from Smith to Heide as an almost unstoppable weapon. Not trying to be sanctimonious just expressing my selfish bias.

After reading your latest posts on this, I recommend you find a different hobby besides watching college basketball. You are going to find yourself unhappy virtually every year. Find something else.

 

[GemstateBoiler]

It's a business now sadly. How each fan supports it, is up to them now. I still support because I graduated from this fine school and have thrived partly due to that degree and connection. Plus, I am a avid sports fan. That connection keeps me coming back, good or bad. That said, this whole portal thing has darkened my enthusiasm somewhat. Same happened to me with the NFL and NBA.

I do hope this is over for us this year with the player losses. I do have to say that when I click on this site each morning, I am praying that there isn't something new, something worse relating to the players. Onward, I guess.

 

[Purdue0023]

After reading your latest posts on this, I recommend you find a different hobby besides watching college basketball. You are going to find yourself unhappy virtually every year. Find something else.

Well, I do have other hobbies thank goodness. Lol.

 

[qazplm]

Meh. Both Jones and Cluff came to a much better basketball school and Jones was in his last year of eligibility (5th year) so that is a lot easier to accept. Cam leaving (with two years left) one of the best programs in the country (with National Championship aspirations next year) when he is so close to cracking the starting line-up is why on the surface I disagree with his choice.

So loyalty and finishing what you start doesn't matter if you are going to a better situation for you?

 

[Dryfly88]

Well, I do have other hobbies thank goodness. Lol.

That's good, because with your position and feelings on this, you are going to be disappointed more often than not.

I'm not crazy about it either. But I've made the decision that I'm still going to be excited and participate each season despite my concerns. I think each fan will need to look at themselves and make that call.

Hobbies should make us happy and feel fulfilled, otherwise, why bother??

 

[mryankee2397]

imho, if you hire an agent, then you are looking for money first and playing time second

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

Meh. Both Jones and Cluff came to a much better basketball school and Jones was in his last year of eligibility (5th year) so that is a lot easier to accept. Cam leaving (with two years left) one of the best programs in the country (with National Championship aspirations next year) when he is so close to cracking the starting line-up is why on the surface I disagree with his choice.

makes me wonder if there is a personality clash somewhere. Some of this doesn't seem logical. We know the agent is telling the kids they've got to get over their sense of loyalty and sell yourself to the highest bidder. But what about WINNING?? Even if you are tying to get yourself set for life (I think many of us are forgetting that in our angst, myself included) wouldn't he be worth more than twice as a much next year after starting on a national champion? Every team in the country wants a national champion transfer on their team.
hmmmm

 

[qazplm]

imho, if you hire an agent, then you are looking for money first and playing time second

What?

 

[Purdue0023]

So loyalty and finishing what you start doesn't matter if you are going to a better situation for you?

Come on dude. It's varying degrees and you have to weigh all the factors. Waddell for instance I don't see as disloyal because he wasn't and wouldn't be (most likely) getting any playing time. Heide's situation is much different and his decision effects the entire team going forward. Jones leaving SIU after giving them 4 years and getting an opportunity to play for a program that is on a whole different level; that is different. It was like Gillis leaving for Duke for a 5th year of playing eligibility - I didn't really see that as being disloyal.

 

[Poprudy]

imho, if you hire an agent, then you are looking for money first and playing time second

I'm assuming most will. As these are very complex contracts that an agent knows how to navigate within the best means of his/her client.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

I'm assuming most will. As these are very complex contracts that an agent knows how to navigate within the best means of his/her client.

Bingo. You wouldn’t negotiate contracts without a lawyer which is what an agent is.

 

[qazplm]

Come on dude. It's varying degrees and you have to weigh all the factors. Waddell for instance I don't see as disloyal because he wasn't and wouldn't be (most likely) getting any playing time. Heide's situation is much different and his decision effects the entire team going forward. Jones leaving SIU after giving them 4 years and getting an opportunity to play for a program that is on a whole different level; that is different. It was like Gillis leaving for Duke for a 5th year of playing eligibility - I didn't really see that as being disloyal.

So it's only disloyal to think about yourself and your future if it affects the team. I see. So you think Jones and Cluff are disloyal guys right?oh wait no because he was improving his own position, then it's ok to hurt the team.

Dude it all boils down to it's bad if it hurts my team and good if it helps it for you here.

 

[Poprudy]

Come on dude. It's varying degrees and you have to weigh all the factors. Waddell for instance I don't see as disloyal because he wasn't and wouldn't be (most likely) getting any playing time. Heide's situation is much different and his decision effects the entire team going forward. Jones leaving SIU after giving them 4 years and getting an opportunity to play for a program that is on a whole different level; that is different. It was like Gillis leaving for Duke for a 5th year of playing eligibility - I didn't really see that as being disloyal.

I totally get what you are saying, but look how many players have moved on and it created a better position for themselves.

I just pulled up last year's Draft and the 13th, 15th,17th and 20th (I didn't go beyond that) were players that moved-on from their original committed school. Sometimes it just doesn't work out and players/schools need to move on.

 

[bonefish1]

Loyalty for me is probably 50% for the team and 50% to the player. If you have a completely new team each year, I would be less invested and would not be watching every game. At its worst you would be only entertained by the skill of the player and not his personality as well because there would be no connection except what is learned over the course of one season. Part of the fun of college basketball for me was seeing your players improve year by year and grow as men and as a team and dreaming about how good they could become by the time they are seniors. All that anticipation and belief in a brighter future and the connection is now almost completely taken away. For me that was one of the big reasons why college sports was so much better than the professional leagues. As far as Cluff, he has progressed to a much better basketball school so hard to knock him for that. Can't say the same for Heide unless he ends up a starter for some blue blood program.

I agree with all of this but unfortunately, the NCAA has created free agency and the $ will speak louder than almost anything else. I mean, these kids have the opportunity be almost set for life (some of them) before they even graduate college. It's hard to argue with chasing the $.
A lot of teams are now building for 1 year runs (Purdue is for next year). I wouldn't be surprised to see 2 brand new players in the starting 5 next year with a 3rd pushing for significant playing time at the 2-3.

 

[galoot]

What?

Well, I don't know for collegiate athletes for cetain, but agents are typically paid as a percentage of the contract $'s. While the players have the ultimate say in who they sign with, there's little doubt that the agents are incentivized toward the $ side of the equation. Not hard to imagine that an agent leaning on a kid to sign for the highest dollar contract even if it's not in the kid's overall best interest.

 

[qazplm]

Well, I don't know for collegiate athletes for cetain, but agents are typically paid as a percentage of the contract $'s. While the players have the ultimate say in who they sign with, there's little doubt that the agents are incentivized toward the $ side of the equation. Not hard to imagine that an agent leaning on a kid to sign for the highest dollar contract even if it's not in the kid's overall best interest.

Ok, you're a kid who wants to go to a new school because you think you can get a chance to start, or improve your chances at a pro career. NIL is not your primary motivation.

Do you hire an agent? Or do you start cold calling schools?

 

[Poprudy]

Bingo. You wouldn’t negotiate contracts without a lawyer which is what an agent is.

Heck. I've been a real estate investor for 25+ years and most can't/won't tackle a simple Purchase Agreement.

I feel all athletes should have one. It's in their best interest to have someone with knowledge.

 

[galoot]

Ok, you're a kid who wants to go to a new school because you think you can get a chance to start, or improve your chances at a pro career. NIL is not your primary motivation.

Do you hire an agent? Or do you start cold calling schools?

I'm not saying what's right or wrong or what the SOP for a kid wanting to transfer should look like. I'm just pointing out that the system is very heavily weighted toward the $ side of things, including the agents that represent the athletes. Maybe this is just an extension of the 'handlers' for highly rated kids coming out of high school?

 

[Poprudy]

Well, I don't know for collegiate athletes for cetain, but agents are typically paid as a percentage of the contract $'s. While the players have the ultimate say in who they sign with, there's little doubt that the agents are incentivized toward the $ side of the equation. Not hard to imagine that an agent leaning on a kid to sign for the highest dollar contract even if it's not in the kid's overall best interest.

I can only speak of a few that I personally know.

It's not always about the money vs. the better situation for their client. Put it this way Mylan Graham had a large bump in a NIL deal to Tennessee, his agent negotiated a deal with OSU to keep him there. Sometimes the situation is better in the long run for what's desired.

 

[Purdue0023]

So it's only disloyal to think about yourself and your future if it affects the team. I see. So you think Jones and Cluff are disloyal guys right?oh wait no because he was improving his own position, then it's ok to hurt the team.

Dude it all boils down to it's bad if it hurts my team and good if it helps it for you here.

Jones leaving SIU was not disloyal. He gave SIU 4 good years, and the programs are not on the same level. Similarly, with Cluff he went to a program that was light years ahead of where he came from. However you want to label it or not, it is not the same as Heide leaving. Have a nice day!

 

[spoilerdave]

I wonder if Cam goes to Minnesota. Instant starter minutes in his home state with a new coach. Zero National Championship hopes but he might get paid and would definitely start.

 

[qazplm]

Jones leaving SIU was not disloyal. He gave SIU 4 good years, and the programs are not on the same level. Similarly, with Cluff he went to a program that was light years ahead of where he came from. However you want to label it or not, it is not the same as Heide leaving. Have a nice day!

So if you go up to a higher program from a lower one it's not disloyal but if you go sideways or down because you want to start or play more it is disloyal. Got it lol

 

[Poprudy]

I wonder if Cam goes to Minnesota. Instant starter minutes in his home state with a new coach. Zero National Championship hopes but he might get paid and would definitely start.

Man, I feel players go there to crush their own dreams of the NBA. Garcia, Carr, Payne, Battle to name some, but some have gone as well. They just seem to suck every year.

 

[jdbrees922]

There's every reason to believe they wouldn't get starter minutes next season. Cox, Harris, Cluff, Benter, Loyer, Smith, TKR, DJ, Burgess and almost assuredly even before they left another wing was probably coming from the portal.

Your starting lineup was going to be someone not them at the 5, TKR and Cluff getting almost 40 minutes at the 4, Smith getting near 40 at the 1, Loyer getting 30+ at the 2 and Cox getting at least 20+ spread in there.

What's left for one of them not to mention both of them each getting at least 20 a game? I haven't even listed incoming players or Harris yet.

I'm sorry but a lot of this is sanctimonious.

Why would you put Benter or Burgess in that list

 

[Purdue0023]

So if you go up to a higher program from a lower one it's not disloyal but if you go sideways or down because you want to start or play more it is disloyal. Got it lol

You're not listening or comprehending so never mind!

 

[qazplm]

Why would you put Benter or Burgess in that list

Because Heide played minutes at the 3 and 4, and Colvin played minutes at the 2 and 3, and Burgess reduces mins at one and Benter at the other.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Butt hurt. It's amazing say Painter is anything less than perfection and people get "butt hurt" but go after the players and everyone nods their heads.

How do you know how hard they worked? How do you know they weren't simply a fit here? If Painter isn't out there attacking them why are you? It was pretty clear they weren't likely to start next season and it was pretty clear that their talents work better on a fast break high rep team, not on the slow it down, big man centric style we play now.

Not wanting to once again be role players in a system they weren't suited to maximize their ability doesn't make them either butt hurt nor lazy.

Wow....great speech. Big stump you're on. I'm not attacking them, but I don't like quitters. I don't know how hard they worked, but had they worked harder, they had every chance to supplant and get more time. Do you think had Colvin or Heide played better, smarter, and harder than Loyer, Painter wouldn't have started him? And any coach of CMP's caliber is going to play those who give the TEAM the best chance of winning. His paycheck demands it. Maybe they could have become defensive stoppers, maybe they would have learned to dribble and drive had they worked just a bit harder.

Painter rewards effort and hustle and intelligent basketball. Always has and always will, and I'd bet good money he did the same with both of them. He gave them every chance.

I'd guess mom and dad were in Myle's ear because all those folks in HS told them how great he was. I'm sure Heide suffered the same accolades. Truth of the matter, both could become better players at another location where the coach lets them dictate their rules. My guess, they won't.

As for attacking them, Painter can't do that. It wouldn't look professional, and it would alienate other recruits if he did it. I've had players I couldn't get rid of quick enough after having them for a month, but no way would I degrade them in public. And before I did let them go, I'd take time to talk to them and give them what they needed to improve and I'm sure CMP does the same.

Many kids today want it all given to them because they've been told how great they are and it's the worst thing that can happen to them. And now with getting paid to play, that whole conversation rears lt''s ugly head and boom.... off they go.

Again, I hope the door didn't hit 'em in the arse.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

makes me wonder if there is a personality clash somewhere. Some of this doesn't seem logical. We know the agent is telling the kids they've got to get over their sense of loyalty and sell yourself to the highest bidder. But what about WINNING?? Even if you are tying to get yourself set for life (I think many of us are forgetting that in our angst, myself included) wouldn't he be worth more than twice as a much next year after starting on a national champion? Every team in the country wants a national champion transfer on their team.
hmmmm

Great point Schmedly. Every time the kid signs a new deal, the agent gets a larger %. So does that agent have the kid's best interest at heart?

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Because Heide played minutes at the 3 and 4, and Colvin played minutes at the 2 and 3, and Burgess reduces mins at one and Benter at the other.

Bad strawman Q. How are Burgess and or Benter going to beat out Heide or Colvin who have much PT experience in the previous season? Or are you saying that you know AS FACT that Burgerss and Benter are better players and would earn the time because of that?

 

[qazplm]

Bad strawman Q. How are Burgess and or Benter going to beat out Heide or Colvin who have much PT experience in the previous season? Or are you saying that you know AS FACT that Burgerss and Benter are better players and would earn the time because of that?

TKR will get minutes at the 4, Cluff will get minutes at the 4, Burgess will get minutes at the 4 or possibly the swing 3/4 we were going after even before they left, that leaves about almost zero minutes at the 4 for Heide. Benter is going to play. Smith is going to play near 40 minutes at the 1 so that leaves the 2 spot where Loyer is going to get 30 plus. Cox is getting at least 20 at the 2/3. Probably most of it at the 3. But again we have that 3/4 mystery player who probably also takes minutes at the 3. Let's say 10.

Now that leaves very little minutes left for Colvin or Heide. It most certainly does not leave guaranteed starter minutes, and I haven't even mentioned Harris yet.