Burke doesn't deserve this
- Thread starter Summy1
- Start date
Similar thoughts here but not necessarily focused on spite of Burke but effect on the fan base as a whole. Also I hate to rain on the parade for basketball. But Big Ten revenue stream and alumni/fans content with a good basketball team minimizes the urgency to fix the football mess, which is not a good thing.
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You obviously don't understand how the masterful Burke Master Plan will draw thousands of money wielding fans to the new Morgan Burke football complex who will be so in awe of the masterful Master Plan that they won't care that we continue to be the B1G laughingstock with underqualified coaching and low OVC talent on the field.
Burke deserves no credit for this basketball team and should be given none by anyone! If it was up to Burke, our basketball program would be right along side our football program, at the bottom of the B1G. Painter is the one who put it on the line and saved his program. The Mizzo AD who tried to hire Painter deserves more credit than Burke, for saving Purdue basketball.
I agree. Painter in my mind took a huge risk. Had Burke called his bluff, I think Painter would have had to take the Mizzou deal even if he didn't want to. Otherwise Purdue bball would have never gotten funded because Burke would have "won" and Painter would have been stuck. I really believe the only reason that Burke negotiated with Painter was that Martin had just taken the Tennessee job so we couldn't just grab him from SE Missouri. I never think this was about money for Painter. It was assistant pay and recruiting budget. I'll never forget the quote from Gene at that time: "Matt just wants to make sure that if an assistant wants to go watch a recruit, there is a car available for him." I almost drove my car up there that day. Pathetic that those guys had to deal with that crap.
I don't think Painter had a conflict directly with Burke. I think he had to get the whole Purdue administrative chain to move off dead center. When Painter jerked the money out of Purdue, he got a head start on rebuilding his program. Now you are seeing the results of that action. It will take an equal or longer lead time to get football back on track.
It is my firm belief that Burke was acting on directions and budget constrained by the President and BOD. If you think Burke made these decisions in a vacuum without specific direction, then you just don't understand the way organizations work. Tiller's hiring and his early success was during a period when Purdue athletics were properly funded. Once the administration changed, then ALL the major sports programs went downhill.
You can blindly blame Burke for this, but I think you will miss the guilty and only shoot the obvious.
It is my firm belief that Burke was acting on directions and budget constrained by the President and BOD. If you think Burke made these decisions in a vacuum without specific direction, then you just don't understand the way organizations work. Tiller's hiring and his early success was during a period when Purdue athletics were properly funded. Once the administration changed, then ALL the major sports programs went downhill.
You can blindly blame Burke for this, but I think you will miss the guilty and only shoot the obvious.
I agree but he also knows who the big donors are. He talks to the coaches and knows what they need. The coaches were struggling to compete with programs who were dumping money into their programs while we were giving "extra" BTN money back to the school for pet projects. He has to fight for that money. He has to tell the BOT that before we donate $3M back to the school we have to get the assistant basketball coaches a freaking $6000 Ford Taurus so they can drive to Chicago to watch a recruit. He needs to enlist the donors to help him.
I'm sure we have all worked for a company with one or more executives that can't seem to grasp a good ROI so I feel Burke's pain. But I still think he can do more to keep us competitive.
I'm sure we have all worked for a company with one or more executives that can't seem to grasp a good ROI so I feel Burke's pain. But I still think he can do more to keep us competitive.
Clearly, Burke works under the authority of the President and the BOT, but they do not micromanage his operational bugdeting and allocation decisions, only major cap ex. That said, I agree that under Cordova, Burke had little discretion because there wasn't enough to go around after she started assessing the AD at 6 to 8 times as much as her predecessor. Evidence of such is that Cordova had to call an emergency meeting of the BOT before Burke could address Painter's demands. Regardless, Burke's under investment in football preceded Cordova, and Burke did nothing to address Painter's complaints until Painter made it clear he was ready to leave.
Matt didn't squeeze the money out of Burke. He had no choice except to pony up if he was to keep him.
Bottom line: Burke is reactive, not proactive. He has no concept of how to grow a business. He has no vision. For our next AD, I want a sales-minded visionary, a risk-taker, an entrepreneur, not a middle manager, bureaucrat, green eye shade guy, whose only concern is covering his own ass.
Why do you think it was a bluff? No money, no budget...little chance to succeed. I think Matt was gone if not...
You can have all the vision you want, but if your boss tells you not to spend the money, you don't. As part of the "team" you take the heat and keep the outside world from seeing the internal conflicts. Burke is a good team player. There was little Burke could do.
Put bluntly, the president and BOD caused this sports decline. They told Burke exactly what amount he could spend, across all sports. He did the best he could, but his options were limited. Recruiting was severely damaged in ALL major sports as a result. Burke is simply a handy target you guys can growl about, but he was not the cause. Budget constraints caused (1) the decline under Tiller at the end, (2) the failure of both successive football coaches to win, (3) the swift decline of MBB, and the (4) gradual decline of WBB during the Cordova presidency. Put the blame where it belongs, and recognize the good people we have who have worked under sever constraints.
I agree with this, but also that Burke could have done more. If he was a passionate visionary leader he would have risked his own job FORCING the issue with the President and BOT. He would have taken a stand and either won and freed up more funding/control for athletics or he would have been fired and likely looked upon as a high character AD and could have gotten a job elsewhere (if not at a power 5 conf). It is the fighting-for-what-is-right for PU athletics that the Boilermaker faithful want to see, not the keeping-my-job mentality. Now I am a pot calling the kettle black in that I go along to get along in many ways to keep my job, but I am paid MUCH less than Burke and do not have a job in the spotlight like he does.
Respectfully disagree. Burke was not proactive in going to the BOT to sell them on why we needed to put more money into the football and basketball programs, until the damage had already been done. A real salesman could have made that case while both programs were still on the upswing.
Not to mention his spending like a drunken sailor on non revenue sporting venues...
Wow some real revisionist history going here. Check assistant salaries and they haven't risen all that much. This was about Matt getting paid in line with other coaches and forcing the BOT to stop draining the AD to fund some pet projects with the BTN money.
Burke doesn't work for the athletic department. He works for the university. He was given his orders and needed to follow them. All this crap about him needing to "sell better" or "fight harder" is all nonsense. Go work for a business sometime. You can put up resistance only so long, then you either quit or you do the best you can with what you have. Sorry but all these Burke should have done this or that are not relevant to the issue. It was the Cordova administration that is to blame and not Burke.
Please also recognize that spending on capital projects (drunken sailor??) is out of a different budget than operational expenses like recruiting. Maybe, just maybe, Burke did what he could with what he was given.
Strongly disagree. Beering and others made it very clear that Burke is the CEO of Purdue athletics. He runs his own joint.
Burke alone created the current cash shortage by over-investing in sports that produce no return on this investment and simply are cost centers. Had Burke slowly improved facilities for the non-revenue sports while continuing to invest in the revenue sports, football would still be going strong. And revenue for the athletic department would be in terrific shape.
It has taken particular incompetence to drive football and women's basketball to the historically low performance levels they currently enjoy. Men's basketball has struggled as well until this year. Once Mackey was renovated, recruiting for both basketball teams picked up quickly. Funny how that works!
Now even Burke and the Board Chair are admitting that the new football facility is needed to catch up. What? It's the AD's job to keep facilities current, not allow them to fall behind.
Burke's legacy is one of focusing on his beloved minority sports at the expense of the revenue sports which are the financial drivers of the whole department. He is a lousy manager.
Maybe bluff isn't the right word. I don't think Matt wanted to leave Purdue, he just wanted things addressed. I agree he would have been gone for the reasons you mention but he would have been very unhappy about it.
I take it you have never been in sales. Eventually the BOT was "sold" on increasing coaching salaries, unfortunately it was the Mizzou AD and a tanking football program that did the selling, instead of our "my hands are tied" AD. The fact that hazell's staff is being paid what they are is proof that
Burke was squeezing the football operation under Hope and Tiller.
So by that logic he deserves no disdain for the shitter that Painter put the program in before digging himself out of said hole. It cracks me up how much Burke is brought up around here. The old farts love to talk about good Purdue football players/teams in years past but Purdue will never be a contender in football. Won't happen. Best case scenario is we pull an Iowa or MSU and get embarrassed when we play teams that get 5 star players.
Nobody cares about an AD until their football or basketball program is struggling. Burke is here for a couple more years until he is 65, the sooner people accept this the better, because these Burke posts are stale.
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Did ohio state, michigan, and notre dame embarrass us with their 5 star players in 2000?
And if you think Burke's refusal to pay competitive salaries to assistants, or his tight-assed recruiting budget had nothing to do with the basketball programs' decline, I don't know what to tell you.
Glad you could find a couple examples from the last 15 years, that really proved your point.
Uh, no, I think Painter's recruiting failures and subsequent player retention for several straight years was the reason for the basketball program's decline. Painter is a man and admitted his recruiting failures were the reason for those two consecutive losing seasons, so your argument isn't just wrong, it's blatantly wrong. Did he or did he not have the same "tight-assed recruiting budget" when he landed the 2007 class?
We have beaten Ohio State, michigan, and ND since 2000, do you need me to list the dates for you?
You obviously don't follow the basketball program real closely. Painter lost assistants to lateral positions, and his recruiting budget was so far behind schools like MSU and IU, that he had to go get an offer from Mizzou in order to force MB to get his head out of his ass.
I think some of you have confused the long term capital improvement spend on facilities with, some how, taking money out of operating expenses. You just don't understand how these things are funded and how the money is allocated. First, the spending on facilities was minimal, and managed to bring Purdue's facilities up to par with the bottom third of the BIG. Excessive spending (cough, cough)? It did not take money away from the operational expenses that paid coaches salaries, or funded recruiting visits.
Second, why do you think Burke might have "squeezed" the operating expenses of Tiller and Hope? Why do you think Painter's recruiting was restricted to Indiana for many of those years? Yes, sure, it was an arbitrary decision by Burke to screw over the athletic programs he loved. He must have put that money in his sock, right ? Please get real here! Burke's operating budget was severely constrained by a President that was more interested in feathering her own nest.
Third, people that say he should have quit over this issue are just nuts. He is a loyal Purdue man, and felt he could do the best possible job dealing with an administration that could give a shit about athletics. No amount of selling could change that.
I don't know that defending my position is worth the effort. Burke will be the Purdue AD until he retires. Let's move on.
Second, why do you think Burke might have "squeezed" the operating expenses of Tiller and Hope? Why do you think Painter's recruiting was restricted to Indiana for many of those years? Yes, sure, it was an arbitrary decision by Burke to screw over the athletic programs he loved. He must have put that money in his sock, right ? Please get real here! Burke's operating budget was severely constrained by a President that was more interested in feathering her own nest.
Third, people that say he should have quit over this issue are just nuts. He is a loyal Purdue man, and felt he could do the best possible job dealing with an administration that could give a shit about athletics. No amount of selling could change that.
I don't know that defending my position is worth the effort. Burke will be the Purdue AD until he retires. Let's move on.
I was with you until you said "Burke". Burke fought for Painter and got our President and BOT to give up the money. It was their collective heads up Cordova's rear that needed to change. Up to then, Burke did not have the funding to change the situation.
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Besides, I am not certain Hazell should be fired at this point. I think he deserves a chance with a decent recruiting budget and good assistants. Help he has not had until this year.
gain, you confuse the capital expenditures with operating expenses. Get over the facilities spending. It has nothing to do with the money we spend or didn't spend on assistants and on recruiting.
Besides, I am not certain Hazell should be fired at this point. I think he deserves a chance with a decent recruiting budget and good assistants. Help he has not had until this year.
We all understand capital expenditures. When you are lacking in the profit centers' infrastructure, it makes no sense to pour money into the infrastructure of cost centers, instead of into the profit centers, i.e. basketball and football facilities that were alarmingly behind.
Also, how and why did the BOT magically find the money for basketball in 2011, if they didn't "give a shit" about athletics? Odd coincidence that it happened after Mizzou's AD went after Painter, don't you think?
I don't understand why you think you are refuting my statement when you clearly understand that the BOD had to authorized the increases given to the basketball program. Burke had no authority to do any of that. That was my frikken point! It was not Burke withholding the money. The BOD (probably at the direction of Cordova) cut the operating funds, NOT burke. The lynch mob mentality that somehow this is all Burke's fault is wrong. That is my point in this thread. Thank you for confirming that the BOD had to authorize the additional expenses.
Simply put, Painter forced the BOD's hand. I would bet that Burke was working with Painter to get the change accomplished. Painter gave him the leverage and Burke took it to the BOD and Cordova to get those funds back. There was nothing "magical" about it. That money was probably earmarked for some special project of Cordova's.
As to the areas where the capital expenditures were made, that is a good question. I agree that the money could have been spent in better places, maybe. That is not the real issue here. The issue is that people confuse the spending on capital improvements with increasing the operational budget. That money cannot be transferred from one type of expense to the other in state run enterprises.
That is exactly the issue here. While Iowa, MSU, Wisconsin, and even frickin IU were investing in football facilities, Burke was blowing money on women's soccer fields, baseball and softball fields, (all of which have lights by the way) and of course the Morgan J Burke Natatorium.
So Burke and Painter were working together, along with the Mizzou AD, to hold up the BOT. Right. How then do you explain the sudden increase in football salaries when hazell came aboard?
Much easier to turn a basketball program around than a football program. You get 2-3 real good recruits to buy in and stay for 2-3 years, there you go.
* Vince Edwards, AJ Hammons, Caleb Swanigan*
