Biggie hitting a freshman slump?

[Flyinhawaiian98]

He played pretty well last night against Penn State with 13 points and such but still struggling to hang on to the ball, looks to be just freshman mistakes, not too sure if he is still considered a "one and done". Haas also played very well showing some confidence, i believe he will get better as the season progresses. PJ has been struggling as of late and Stephens has hit a shooting slump, I believe he needs to drive to the basket more. Mathias is probably one of our best players other than AJ and Vince. Johnny Hill also has shown that he deserves starters minutes with his "never give up" mentality, he seems to pride himself on the little things like hustling down to block the shot and grab some rebounds, he has seemed to be one of the toughest playing kids out there

 

[SIBoiler2]

Biggie is going to be here at least another year. He still has a lot to learn and obviously needs polish. He's also played a lot of BB the last year with his international play so fatigue may be a small factor. Last night he did just what it's going to take to get his confidence back by scoring down low. He'll be OK but the game is being played at a different level than he's ever played at before right now.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

I think we can put the one and done talk to bed for now. I think he has huge upside and will only get better. But you can tell he's not used to playing the game at this speed and intensity. Remember he only played HS ball for 3 years. I thought CMP's comments comparing his TO rate to Big Dog's sophomore year was interesting and hopefully prophetic.

 

[PU52Chevy]

with the x's and o's Matt Painter puts on every player...it always mentally weighs down the player until they can figure out what is right and what is wrong....or in CMP case...what is a good shot and what is a bad shot.

When Purdue passes the ball on Offense we do well.....quick bad shots hurt us unless in a fast break, then go to the rim......

I will keep supporting the effort positive.

 

[PaBoiler78]

with the x's and o's Matt Painter puts on every player...it always mentally weighs down the player until they can figure out what is right and what is wrong....or in CMP case...what is a good shot and what is a bad shot.

When Purdue passes the ball on Offense we do well.....quick bad shots hurt us unless in a fast break, then go to the rim......

I will keep supporting the effort positive.

I'll admit, I was expecting a little more out of him but he's only a frosh, it when I see guys that are Jr;'s and Sr's playing in extended slumps , that's a cause of concern to me.

 

[Dryfly88]

Caleb isn't going anywhere. Right now he does 1 thing above average and that is rebound. He is very slow footed and his defense shows that. His shot is unreliable and slow release. For the first time last night (late in the game) he was forced into the low post and scored a couple baskets.

Before everybody jumps..... I think he is going to be a very good college player before he leaves PU. But he has a long ways to go before he is ready for the NBA. I personally think he is closer to a 4 year college player than he is a one and done.

 

[CRBoiler]

I am the one who did the "Is Biggie a 1-and-done?" poll. I was going to do it again, but no need... I think there is a clear consensus he will be here at least one more year. As many things as he does well, the way he hemorrhages turnovers offsets a portion of his positive contributions to the point that I am unsure he should continue to start. I think we may be better off with AJ, Vince, Ray, Dakota, Johnny.

 

[Dryfly88]

I am the one who did the "Is Biggie a 1-and-done?" poll. I was going to do it again, but no need... I think there is a clear consensus he will be here at least one more year. As many things as he does well, the way he hemorrhages turnovers offsets a portion of his positive contributions to the point that I am unsure he should continue to start. I think we may be better off with AJ, Vince, Ray, Dakota, Johnny.

I don't think there is any question we play better when Caleb is on the bench. That isn't popular and I know CMP feels pressure to play him big minutes but the eyes don't lie. When Vince is at the #4 we play better, plain and simple. Caleb should be getting playing time, but no where near what he is getting right now.

 

[lbodel]

He played pretty well last night against Penn State with 13 points and such but still struggling to hang on to the ball, looks to be just freshman mistakes, not too sure if he is still considered a "one and done". Haas also played very well showing some confidence, i believe he will get better as the season progresses. PJ has been struggling as of late and Stephens has hit a shooting slump, Mathias is probably one of our best players other than AJ and Vince. Johnny Hill also has shown that he deserves starters minutes with his "never give up" mentality, he seems to pride himself on the little things like hustling down to block the shot and grab some rebounds, he has seemed to be one of the toughest playing kids out there

I don't know if I'd call it a slump - Swanigan's been struggling with turnovers since day 1.

Stephens is 5/12 in the last 3 games. Not sure I'd consider that a slump - but he only shot 1 time yesterday.

 

[lbodel]

Caleb isn't going anywhere. Right now he does 1 thing above average and that is rebound. He is very slow footed and his defense shows that. His shot is unreliable and slow release. For the first time last night (late in the game) he was forced into the low post and scored a couple baskets.

Before everybody jumps..... I think he is going to be a very good college player before he leaves PU. But he has a long ways to go before he is ready for the NBA. I personally think he is closer to a 4 year college player than he is a one and done.

There's few productive things to come from prognosticating someone's pro status. I hardly find Swanigan to be selfish, but I think he's struggling to do adjust to college basketball and not being a "star" given how much he forces things and the amount of shooting he does. I don't necessarily think he's operating this way, but it's almost as if there's been so much said around him about being a one and done, he's forcing it upon himself to be a one and done. The amount of shots he takes is sometimes mind boggling. He usually shoots a good percentage, but with that - there's a lot of turnovers happening before shots even get off. Swanigan leads the team in shot attempts - not sure how I feel about him surpassing AJ in this game after game.

One thing about adjusting to college basketball is letting the game come to you and not forcing it. This is even more glaring in big guys like Swanigan who usually take longer to adjust than guards.

Overall, analyzing whether someone is at Purdue for 1 year, 2 years or 4 years may be interesting, but it's literally impossible to predict for most players. Many people thought JaJuan Johnson was going to be gone after his sophomore year. Then his junior. Well, he was a second round pick after this senior year. Meanwhile, E'twaun (who had next to no hype surrounding him leaving early) is the one that is still in the NBA.

Obviously this board is for discussions and that's great. But there's also a sense of reality to it too. I'm sure people around Swanigan (students, friends, etc.) talk about him going to the NBA and being a one and done, etc. They don't have to read this board for it to get to them.

And earlier this season, people were talking about Vince and Haas being gone this year. I think people need to operate more so on the side of "prove it" vs. "hype" on this board. It's the same for the overall team - we were preseason ranked to finish in the 20-25 range. That's where we are today and it's a "disappointment". So instead of buying into hype based on games against Incarnate Word, having them prove it against good teams first may be the better route for everyone's sanity.

 

[C'ville Boiler]

Biggie is going to be really good and is an excellent rebounder but TOs and bad shot selection really hamper this team. What we need more of Vince being aggressive and looking to score. Love Biggie's work ethic but think Edwards should probably start at the 4. The TOs and bad shots offset the rebounds. Besides, Edwards is a good rebounder in his own right

 

[Dryfly88]

There's few productive things to come from prognosticating someone's pro status. I hardly find Swanigan to be selfish, but I think he's struggling to do adjust to college basketball and not being a "star" given how much he forces things and the amount of shooting he does. I don't necessarily think he's operating this way, but it's almost as if there's been so much said around him about being a one and done, he's forcing it upon himself to be a one and done. The amount of shots he takes is sometimes mind boggling. He usually shoots a good percentage, but with that - there's a lot of turnovers happening before shots even get off. Swanigan leads the team in shot attempts - not sure how I feel about him surpassing AJ in this game after game.

One thing about adjusting to college basketball is letting the game come to you and not forcing it. This is even more glaring in big guys like Swanigan who usually take longer to adjust than guards.

Overall, analyzing whether someone is at Purdue for 1 year, 2 years or 4 years may be interesting, but it's literally impossible to predict for most players. Many people thought JaJuan Johnson was going to be gone after his sophomore year. Then his junior. Well, he was a second round pick after this senior year. Meanwhile, E'twaun (who had next to no hype surrounding him leaving early) is the one that is still in the NBA.

Obviously this board is for discussions and that's great. But there's also a sense of reality to it too. I'm sure people around Swanigan (students, friends, etc.) talk about him going to the NBA and being a one and done, etc. They don't have to read this board for it to get to them.

And earlier this season, people were talking about Vince and Haas being gone this year. I think people need to operate more so on the side of "prove it" vs. "hype" on this board. It's the same for the overall team - we were preseason ranked to finish in the 20-25 range. That's where we are today and it's a "disappointment". So instead of buying into hype based on games against Incarnate Word, having them prove it against good teams first may be the better route for everyone's sanity.

You quoted my message, but I'm not sure what your point was??

The OP brought up the question of one and done and I gave my opinion. Agree, disagree I really don't care but you seem to have a problem with people discussing his status on this board and then you proceed to write 5 paragraphs about it. Am I missing something?

 

[C'ville Boiler]

Another thing, us Purdue fans aren't used to having this much hype coming in. I think in our own minds a lot of fans thought he would be a dominant force. As the season has wore on he is still struggling and it can be frustrating. I for one still think he has real value for us but should bring him off bench. Another thing that may add to the frustration is seeing other B1G frosh big men like Diamond Stone and hate to say it, Thomas Bryant performing better

 

[punaj]

Another thing, us Purdue fans aren't used to having this much hype coming in. I think in our own minds a lot of fans thought he would be a dominant force. As the season has wore on he is still struggling and it can be frustrating. I for one still think he has real value for us but should bring him off bench. Another thing that may add to the frustration is seeing other B1G frosh big men like Diamond Stone and hate to say it, Thomas Bryant performing better

I wouldn't go so far as to say Bryant is performing better. No way I would trade him for Caleb. About the only stat Bryant is out-performing Caleb is field goal percentage and that is because IU has one big man and he hardly gets a change to play. He gets it down low, 2 feet from the basket for a dunk or he gets a rebound on a missed shot and puts it back.

Bryant: 12 ppg, 5.5 rpg, and 1.1 apg
Caleb: 10 ppg, 8.7 rpg (leads the entire B1G), and 2.1 apg

Caleb does turn it over more, but I contribute that to playing at the top of the key and trying to drive more than Bryant.

Like I said, I wouldn't make the trade and I would say Bryant is performing better.

Stone: 13.6 ppg, 5.8 rpg, and 0.1 apg... also turns it over more than Bryant and less than Caleb. He had one great game when the other team decided to leave him open to shut down Melo, and their other studs.

I'm keeping Biggie!

 

[Dryfly88]

I wouldn't go so far as to say Bryant is performing better. No way I would trade him for Caleb. About the only stat Bryant is out-performing Caleb is field goal percentage and that is because IU has one big man and he hardly gets a change to play. He gets it down low, 2 feet from the basket for a dunk or he gets a rebound on a missed shot and puts it back.

Bryant: 12 ppg, 5.5 rpg, and 1.1 apg
Caleb: 10 ppg, 8.7 rpg (leads the entire B1G), and 2.1 apg

Caleb does turn it over more, but I contribute that to playing at the top of the key and trying to drive more than Bryant.

Like I said, I wouldn't make the trade and I would say Bryant is performing better.

Stone: 13.6 ppg, 5.8 rpg, and 0.1 apg... also turns it over more than Bryant and less than Caleb. He had one great game when the other team decided to leave him open to shut down Melo, and their other studs.

I'm keeping Biggie!

I'm keeping him too!

I would just like to see his minutes reduced and VE minutes to increase. Caleb is going to be a very good college player. Right now he is an above average rebounder, until the rest of his game gets better I would just like to see CMP take a little more conservative approach with his playing time.

 

[C'ville Boiler]

I wouldn't go so far as to say Bryant is performing better. No way I would trade him for Caleb. About the only stat Bryant is out-performing Caleb is field goal percentage and that is because IU has one big man and he hardly gets a change to play. He gets it down low, 2 feet from the basket for a dunk or he gets a rebound on a missed shot and puts it back.

Bryant: 12 ppg, 5.5 rpg, and 1.1 apg
Caleb: 10 ppg, 8.7 rpg (leads the entire B1G), and 2.1 apg

Caleb does turn it over more, but I contribute that to playing at the top of the key and trying to drive more than Bryant.

Like I said, I wouldn't make the trade and I would say Bryant is performing better.

Stone: 13.6 ppg, 5.8 rpg, and 0.1 apg... also turns it over more than Bryant and less than Caleb. He had one great game when the other team decided to leave him open to shut down Melo, and their other studs.

I'm keeping Biggie!

I'm keeping him as well. Just some thoughts of maybe why people may be getting a little frustrated.

 

[punaj]

I'm keeping him too!

I would just like to see his minutes reduced and VE minutes to increase. Caleb is going to be a very good college player. Right now he is an above average rebounder, until the rest of his game gets better I would just like to see CMP take a little more conservative approach with his playing time.

I'd be ok with his minutes going down from 26 to around 20 and VE picking up a few more. I'd also say he is a lot better than above average rebounder. He is #1 in the B1G and he has to fight off 2 other 7 footers to snag them - AJ gets 8, Issac gets 5 and VE gets 5 per game. I wouldn't be surprised to see him average 15 and 14 or better next year.

 

[TC4THREE]

I'd be stunned if he averaged 14 boards next year. He is good at rebounding and AJ won't be here anymore but Isaac and Vince will. I see Isaac getting most of AJs minutes and probably Taylor might work I to the rotation some. Caleb might average a few more but I don't see him getting too far above 30 mpg.

Double digit rebound average would be very impressive, especially if it were accompanied by a decrease in turnovers. I'm just not sure 14 per game is very realistic although I'd love to be wrong.

 

[*4purdue*]

I don't think there is any question we play better when Caleb is on the bench. That isn't popular and I know CMP feels pressure to play him big minutes but the eyes don't lie. When Vince is at the #4 we play better, plain and simple. Caleb should be getting playing time, but no where near what he is getting right now.

I don't agree with this at all. I do think Vince is more aggressive when he's on the floor without Biggie. Maybe it's because he think he needs to score more then. Biggie leads us in rebounding & is one of the top in the B1G. I do think his turnovers stand out to some people more than the plays he makes. Obviously his good outweighs his bad or CMP would bench him. I also like the comparison that CMP made with Big Dog making alot of TO his first year. I remember that well, but he eventually got better. We need to live with Biggies growing pains, because he has alot of upside.

 

[Dryfly88]

I'd be ok with his minutes going down from 26 to around 20 and VE picking up a few more. I'd also say he is a lot better than above average rebounder. He is #1 in the B1G and he has to fight off 2 other 7 footers to snag them - AJ gets 8, Issac gets 5 and VE gets 5 per game. I wouldn't be surprised to see him average 15 and 14 or better next year.

Fair enough. My comment about "above average" rebounder was more to emphasize that rebounding is the only thing he is above average at right now. Not really a statement of how good a rebounder he is or could become.

 

[Dryfly88]

I don't agree with this at all. I do think Vince is more aggressive when he's on the floor without Biggie. Maybe it's because he think he needs to score more then. Biggie leads us in rebounding & is one of the top in the B1G. I do think his turnovers stand out to some people more than the plays he makes. Obviously his good outweighs his bad or CMP would bench him. I also like the comparison that CMP made with Big Dog making alot of TO his first year. I remember that well, but he eventually got better. We need to live with Biggies growing pains, because he has alot of upside.

I respect your opinion, but in my mind and eyes there is no doubt we are a better team with VE at the #4. Since Caleb can't or doesn't want to play any other position I think his minutes need to be reduced and VE minutes increased.

I will emphasize once again, I think Caleb is going to be a very good college player for PU. I would just like to see him brought on a little slower as he learns. As the other parts of his game catch up to the rebounding than the minutes increase with it.

 

[*4purdue*]

I respect your opinion, but in my mind and eyes there is no doubt we are a better team with VE at the #4. Since Caleb can't or doesn't want to play any other position I think his minutes need to be reduced and VE minutes increased.

I will emphasize once again, I think Caleb is going to be a very good college player for PU. I would just like to see him brought on a little slower as he learns. As the other parts of his game catch up to the rebounding than the minutes increase with it.

I think to much is being made of playing the 4 vs playing the 3. There is not much different between the 2 in CMP's offense, especially when we have 2 seven footers that play inside most of the time. I think if & when VE decides he's going to be aggressive every game & take more shots, you will see that we are a better team no matter who is on the floor. Purdue's main problem right now is having the right people take the shots. Hammons/Haas & Edwards should be option 1.

 

[TC4THREE]

Don't forget that Caleb is also struggling greatly trying to guard opposing 4s in conference play. Taylor had most of his field goals last night against Swanigan.

So yea, I think we do see that he struggles and those plays stand out because the excessive turnovers are only part of the problem if you are watching both ends of the court.

 

[FirstDownB]

Perhaps I am becoming an advanced stats junkie, but I would love to see a statistical breakdown of Biggie's impact on games. Him in particular because it would be interesting to quantify the balance between his positives (rebounding, size) and also negatives (turnovers, quickness). Is individual plus-minus tracked and published anywhere? I assume the advanced stat RPM, which is used by the NBA, is not tracked at the collegiate level.

 

[FirstDownB]

I think to much is being made of playing the 4 vs playing the 3. There is not much different between the 2 in CMP's offense, especially when we have 2 seven footers that play inside most of the time. I think if & when VE decides he's going to be aggressive every game & take more shots, you will see that we are a better team no matter who is on the floor. Purdue's main problem right now is having the right people take the shots. Hammons/Haas & Edwards should be option 1.

With the current roster there is a huge difference between Vince playing the 3 and 4. If he is playing the 4 then there are 3 guards and 1 post player on the floor with him. If he is playing the 3 then there are 2 post players and 2 guards on the floor. It changes everything because he and Biggie have very different skills.

 

[Dryfly88]

With the current roster there is a huge difference between Vince playing the 3 and 4. If he is playing the 4 then there are 3 guards and 1 post player on the floor with him. If he is playing the 3 then there are 2 post players and 2 guards on the floor. It changes everything because he and Biggie have very different skills.

This exactly. Thanks for stating it much better than I was!

 

[FiveWeight]

You can see his elite potential. Most guys struggle to adjust to BIG play their freshman year because they've never seen defenses like this game after game. You can tell he has the moves, and isn't used to anybody (or anybodies) getting in his way. He has confidence - you have to give him that. He's an elite rebounder and has a solid all-around offensive game with decent range for a frontcourt player. This year he will learn when to do his thing, and when he isn't in a position to score because he's being mobbed. Even last night you could tell he adjusted his game at halftime. His defense will improve just because he plays for Painter and that's something he coaches as well as anyone in the country. I think he's every bit as good as advertised, minus the correctable mistakes which shouldn't be a surprise. He chose the right school and the right conference to prepare his game for the next level - it's probably just going to take more than a single season.

 

[punaj]

I can't remember where I heard/read this, but didn't Vince himself say that he liked playing the 3 better than the 4 because he didn't have to bang/get banged up as much as last year? Maybe he is just making nice and does't want to stir the pot this year. That said, playing the 3 he will typically have a quicker guy that can stay with him better than an opposing 4.

I'm hoping last night was the start of the Vince we all thought we would consistently see this year and not just because we played a banged up Penn St.

 

[boilerzz]

Perhaps I am becoming an advanced stats junkie, but I would love to see a statistical breakdown of Biggie's impact on games. Him in particular because it would be interesting to quantify the balance between his positives (rebounding, size) and also negatives (turnovers, quickness). Is individual plus-minus tracked and published anywhere? I assume the advanced stat RPM, which is used by the NBA, is not tracked at the collegiate level.

There are some interesting advanced stats here. They admit that some (like +/-) are calculated rather than actuals since they don't analyze play by play and substitutions.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/purdue/2016.html

 

[FirstDownB]

There are some interesting advanced stats here. They admit that some (like +/-) are calculated rather than actuals since they don't analyze play by play and substitutions.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/purdue/2016.html

Thanks. I used to follow kenpom player stats until it became premium content.

 

[patj11288]

There's few productive things to come from prognosticating someone's pro status. I hardly find Swanigan to be selfish, but I think he's struggling to do adjust to college basketball and not being a "star" given how much he forces things and the amount of shooting he does. I don't necessarily think he's operating this way, but it's almost as if there's been so much said around him about being a one and done, he's forcing it upon himself to be a one and done. The amount of shots he takes is sometimes mind boggling. He usually shoots a good percentage, but with that - there's a lot of turnovers happening before shots even get off. Swanigan leads the team in shot attempts - not sure how I feel about him surpassing AJ in this game after game.

One thing about adjusting to college basketball is letting the game come to you and not forcing it. This is even more glaring in big guys like Swanigan who usually take longer to adjust than guards.

Overall, analyzing whether someone is at Purdue for 1 year, 2 years or 4 years may be interesting, but it's literally impossible to predict for most players. Many people thought JaJuan Johnson was going to be gone after his sophomore year. Then his junior. Well, he was a second round pick after this senior year. Meanwhile, E'twaun (who had next to no hype surrounding him leaving early) is the one that is still in the NBA.

Obviously this board is for discussions and that's great. But there's also a sense of reality to it too. I'm sure people around Swanigan (students, friends, etc.) talk about him going to the NBA and being a one and done, etc. They don't have to read this board for it to get to them.

And earlier this season, people were talking about Vince and Haas being gone this year. I think people need to operate more so on the side of "prove it" vs. "hype" on this board. It's the same for the overall team - we were preseason ranked to finish in the 20-25 range. That's where we are today and it's a "disappointment". So instead of buying into hype based on games against Incarnate Word, having them prove it against good teams first may be the better route for everyone's sanity.

For the record, I do not think "shot attempts" is a completely fair metric considering he is also playing the most minutes on the team. For instance, Biggie is taking fewer shots per minutes played than AJ (.32 to .41). Also, as far as taking a mind boggling amount of shots (especially bad shots), that crown pretty much has to go to Stephens considering hes only taken 25 less shots then Biggie in 183 fewer minutes. I mean he is taking .43 shots per minute played compared to AJ's .41. That is absolutely insane and probably a reason why he only played like 9 minutes last night.

 

[TC4THREE]

There are some interesting advanced stats here. They admit that some (like +/-) are calculated rather than actuals since they don't analyze play by play and substitutions.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/purdue/2016.html

BPM - Basically how many points above an average player that each player contributes per 100 possessions.

1. Hammons - 12.6
2. Hill - 11.2
3. Edwards 10.1
4. Thompson 8.9
5. Haas 8.6
6. Davis 6.6
7. Mathias 6.4
8. Stephens 5.4
9. Swanigan 4.2
10. Cline 4.1

Not all that surprising to me. Thompson is higher than I'd have thought. Davis and Mathias a bit lower. Swanigan is down towards the bottom. About the same as Cline. Only problem is that he averages twice as many minutes.

Here's the one that stands out to me.

OBPM - Box score estimate of offensive points contributed per 100 possessions compared to an average player on an average team.

Swanigan is the only rotational player that has a negative number here which I guess means that he is worse for our offense than an average player on an average team. Like I said, he is the ONLY player who has a negative number in this column.

 

[Dryfly88]

BPM - Basically how many points above an average player that each player contributes per 100 possessions.

1. Hammons - 12.6
2. Hill - 11.2
3. Edwards 10.1
4. Thompson 8.9
5. Haas 8.6
6. Davis 6.6
7. Mathias 6.4
8. Stephens 5.4
9. Swanigan 4.2
10. Cline 4.1

Not all that surprising to me. Thompson is higher than I'd have thought. Davis and Mathias a bit lower. Swanigan is down towards the bottom. About the same as Cline. Only problem is that he averages twice as many minutes.

Here's the one that stands out to me.

OBPM - Box score estimate of offensive points contributed per 100 possessions compared to an average player on an average team.

Swanigan is the only rotational player that has a negative number here which I guess means that he is worse for our offense than an average player on an average team. Like I said, he is the ONLY player who has a negative number in this column.

I know this isn't cast in stone. But doesn't that back up what we actually see with our eyes? Caleb is struggling to adapt to D1 basketball. There is no shame in that, in fact it is pretty predictable. How many freshman bigs come in and are effective right away? The answer is damn few. If they do they are exceptionally talented and not long for the college game.

He is going to be a very good college player. He just isn't there yet. I just think it would be better for the team if his minutes were reduced some while he is coming into his own.

 

[*4purdue*]

With the current roster there is a huge difference between Vince playing the 3 and 4. If he is playing the 4 then there are 3 guards and 1 post player on the floor with him. If he is playing the 3 then there are 2 post players and 2 guards on the floor. It changes everything because he and Biggie have very different skills.

We will have to agree to disagree. Biggie plays on the perimeter as much as any guard.

 

[*4purdue*]

I can't remember where I heard/read this, but didn't Vince himself say that he liked playing the 3 better than the 4 because he didn't have to bang/get banged up as much as last year? Maybe he is just making nice and does't want to stir the pot this year. That said, playing the 3 he will typically have a quicker guy that can stay with him better than an opposing 4.

I'm hoping last night was the start of the Vince we all thought we would consistently see this year and not just because we played a banged up Penn St.

That's the only difference in playing the 3 vs playing the 4 in CMP's system. It's not playing in a particular spot, it's mainly who you are guarding on defense. Vince has made reference to this in many interviews I've seen with him. He's now usually guarding a smaller quicker player rather than guarding a 4 when Biggie is on the floor. Even that is a stretch since most teams don't have a traditional 4.

 

[FirstDownB]

We will have to agree to disagree. Biggie plays on the perimeter as much as any guard.

I think you are missing the point being made. When people talk about Edwards playing more 4 they are referring to the lineups when Biggie is on the bench and VE is essentially the second big.
Yes, when they are both on the floor there is not much difference in what position you assign them other than who they guard.

 

[*4purdue*]

I think you are missing the point being made. When people talk about Edwards playing more 4 they are referring to the lineups when Biggie is on the bench and VE is essentially the second big.
Yes, when they are both on the floor there is not much difference in what position you assign them other than who they guard.

No, what I'm saying is if VE is aggressive and looking for his shot like he was last night, it doesn't matter who is on the floor with him.

 

[FirstDownB]

No, what I'm saying is if VE is aggressive and looking for his shot like he was last night, it doesn't matter who is on the floor with him.

So what you are essentially saying is Biggie is interchangeable with Mathias. You're right, agree to disagree.

 

[*4purdue*]

So what you are essentially saying is Biggie is interchangeable with Mathias. You're right, agree to disagree.

I'm saying Biggie should keep starting. DF88 was saying we are better with VE at the 4 and Biggie on the bench. I don't agree with that. VE is a great player and with the 2 bigs we have, it really doesn't matter what other 4 are on the floor... Which is partly why CMP has continued to play 10 man rotation this year. No one else has separated themselves from the pack. In fact, when Biggie came out first possession last night, Mathias did come in for him. Most of the players on this team are interchangeable at positions, other than H & H.

 

[FirstDownB]

I'm saying Biggie should keep starting. DF88 was saying we are better with VE at the 4 and Biggie on the bench. I don't agree with that. VE is a great player and with the 2 bigs we have, it really doesn't matter what other 4 are on the floor... Which is partly why CMP has continued to play 10 man rotation this year. No one else has separated themselves from the pack. In fact, when Biggie came out first possession last night, Mathias did come in for him. Most of the players on this team are interchangeable at positions, other than H & H.

I think we have entered an infinite loop here so I will terminate. Peace.