'Average' at Purdue means much more

[Born Boiler]

Way too many on this board are selling themselves short on what long had been a Boilermaker birthright.

Up until the last five years, Purdue stood above all others with the most Big Ten basketball championships while also holding winning records over each and every school in Big Ten history. That was a fully unique status -- a rightful claim to being the league’s all-time best program.

Painter, however, not only has lost both of those distinctions, but he has Purdue’s lowest record in Big Ten play since Mackey Arena opened -- he’s the worst of our five coaches in the past 50 years.

Purdue Coaches vs. Big Ten
1. Ralph Jones (1910-1912) .719
2. Ward Lambert (1917-1945) .685
3. Lee Rose (1979-1980) .667
4. Fred Schaus (1973-1978) .650
5. George King (1966-1972) .623
6. Gene Keady (1981-2005) .611
7. E. J. Stewart (1909) .600
8. Matt Painter (2006-Present) .582

I don’t “hate” him or wish for someone else. I don’t want him fired because of “unrealistic expectations.” I just want him to be average. Purdue’s average.

 

[rgarlitz]

Well, Painter will be back to .600 in the B1G if Purdue wins 14 league games this year.

Might be enough to net another league title, too.

 

[NashvilleBoiler]

Way too many on this board are selling themselves short on what long had been a Boilermaker birthright.

Up until the last five years, Purdue stood above all others with the most Big Ten basketball championships while also holding winning records over each and every school in Big Ten history. That was a fully unique status -- a rightful claim to being the league’s all-time best program.

Painter, however, not only has lost both of those distinctions, but he has Purdue’s lowest record in Big Ten play since Mackey Arena opened -- he’s the worst of our five coaches in the past 50 years.

Purdue Coaches vs. Big Ten
1. Ralph Jones (1910-1912) .719
2. Ward Lambert (1917-1945) .685
3. Lee Rose (1979-1980) .667
4. Fred Schaus (1973-1978) .650
5. George King (1966-1972) .623
6. Gene Keady (1981-2005) .611
7. E. J. Stewart (1909) .600
8. Matt Painter (2006-Present) .582

I don’t “hate” him or wish for someone else. I don’t want him fired because of “unrealistic expectations.” I just want him to be average. Purdue’s average.

You obviously cheer for IU. You have no facts to back up you total lack of basketball knowledge. We have been accumulating lessons learned from 11 years of losing to upper tier competition to unleash them...this year in the tournament. All those other coaches had players that would listen and MOVE! Troll! And Kess thinks you're a negatwat mf'er douschebag!

 

[Born Boiler]

You obviously cheer for IU. You have no facts to back up you total lack of basketball knowledge. We have been accumulating lessons learned from 11 years of losing to upper tier competition to unleash them...this year in the tournament. All those other coaches had players that would listen and MOVE! Troll! And Kess thinks you're a negatwat mf'er douschebag!

You're write. We're do.

 

[Born Boiler]

Well, Painter will be back to .600 in the B1G if Purdue wins 14 league games this year.

Might be enough to net another league title, too.

Sixteen would be sweeter, especially with a sweep of dem bums down south.

 

[Kesselschmiede]

You obviously cheer for IU. You have no facts to back up you total lack of basketball knowledge. We have been accumulating lessons learned from 11 years of losing to upper tier competition to unleash them...this year in the tournament. All those other coaches had players that would listen and MOVE! Troll! And Kess thinks you're a negatwat mf'er douschebag!

Na, see the OP could put together a coherent post without the bitching and unfounded hating on Painter. Something you and the other negatwatts aren't capable of doing.

But in the case of cpr and dg10, they most certainly are iu fans and that much has been proven. Jury is still out on you and is more leaning towards you just being a dumbass more than anything else.

 

[BBG]

You obviously cheer for IU. You have no facts to back up you total lack of basketball knowledge. We have been accumulating lessons learned from 11 years of losing to upper tier competition to unleash them...this year in the tournament. All those other coaches had players that would listen and MOVE! Troll! And Kess thinks you're a negatwat mf'er douschebag!

Why poke the troll? Come on Nash, you guys are better than that.

 

[cprh9u]

Way too many on this board are selling themselves short on what long had been a Boilermaker birthright.

Up until the last five years, Purdue stood above all others with the most Big Ten basketball championships while also holding winning records over each and every school in Big Ten history. That was a fully unique status -- a rightful claim to being the league’s all-time best program.

Painter, however, not only has lost both of those distinctions, but he has Purdue’s lowest record in Big Ten play since Mackey Arena opened -- he’s the worst of our five coaches in the past 50 years.

Purdue Coaches vs. Big Ten
1. Ralph Jones (1910-1912) .719
2. Ward Lambert (1917-1945) .685
3. Lee Rose (1979-1980) .667
4. Fred Schaus (1973-1978) .650
5. George King (1966-1972) .623
6. Gene Keady (1981-2005) .611
7. E. J. Stewart (1909) .600
8. Matt Painter (2006-Present) .582

I don’t “hate” him or wish for someone else. I don’t want him fired because of “unrealistic expectations.” I just want him to be average. Purdue’s average.

Careful there. Using stats like what you have above, or the fact that Painter could only put together 2 sweet 16's and 1 CO-B1G championship in a dozen years will get you a label- TROLL! How can you support Purdue but not be in love with CMP???

 

[boilerzz]

Way too many on this board are selling themselves short on what long had been a Boilermaker birthright.

Up until the last five years, Purdue stood above all others with the most Big Ten basketball championships while also holding winning records over each and every school in Big Ten history. That was a fully unique status -- a rightful claim to being the league’s all-time best program.

Painter, however, not only has lost both of those distinctions, but he has Purdue’s lowest record in Big Ten play since Mackey Arena opened -- he’s the worst of our five coaches in the past 50 years.

Purdue Coaches vs. Big Ten
1. Ralph Jones (1910-1912) .719
2. Ward Lambert (1917-1945) .685
3. Lee Rose (1979-1980) .667
4. Fred Schaus (1973-1978) .650
5. George King (1966-1972) .623
6. Gene Keady (1981-2005) .611
7. E. J. Stewart (1909) .600
8. Matt Painter (2006-Present) .582

I don’t “hate” him or wish for someone else. I don’t want him fired because of “unrealistic expectations.” I just want him to be average. Purdue’s average.

None of those coaches since Mackey opened inherited a mess like Painter did. If you extract his 3-13 first season, which was as much on Keady as Painter, his Big Ten winning percentage is .618, slightly better than Keady and just behind King.

 

[mathboy]

None of those coaches since Mackey opened inherited a mess like Painter did. If you extract his 3-13 first season, which was as much on Keady as Painter, his Big Ten winning percentage is .618, slightly better than Keady and just behind King.

Here is the real story. Some times we take statistics at face value and try to make an argument with them that is not valid. I liked the OP but the flaw was in the statistics used. I would also add that Painter had to coach through a time when his support from the administration was at an all time low.

 

[rgarlitz]

None of those coaches since Mackey opened inherited a mess like Painter did. If you extract his 3-13 first season, which was as much on Keady as Painter, his Big Ten winning percentage is .618, slightly better than Keady and just behind King.

Fair point, boilerzz.

But, to flesh that out a little more: Purdue has finished last in the B1G only three times since the 1963-64 season. Two of them have come under Painter.

 

[BBG]

Here is the real story. Some times we take statistics at face value and try to make an argument with them that is not valid. I liked the OP but the flaw was in the statistics used. I would also add that Painter had to coach through a time when his support from the administration was at an all time low.

Great points. There is always more to numbers than what we see on the surface. Some good, some bad.. but those things need to be taken in to account regardless.

 

[boilerzz]

Fair point, boilerzz.

But, to flesh that out a little more: Purdue has finished last in the B1G only three times since the 1963-64 season. Two of them have come under Painter.

Yep, and one of them is the aforementioned first season. The other one is absolutely on him and unacceptable and I'm sure he'd say the same if you asked him.

I'm hopeful that he's learned from the circumstance that led to that finish and it won't happen again.

 

[Born Boiler]

Here is the real story. Some times we take statistics at face value and try to make an argument with them that is not valid. I liked the OP but the flaw was in the statistics used. I would also add that Painter had to coach through a time when his support from the administration was at an all time low.

There’s no bigger stat than win-loss records, and there’s no better measuring stick than our peers in the Big Ten, as opposed to the cupcakes that have become common fare in the last 20 years.

And none of our other coaches in any sport ever have had so much spent on their program’s facility at one time -- $100 million reasons we should’ve been much better through the past five years, instead of unranked for four straight and underachieving in general.

And it’s not at all the administration’s fault we lost Frank Kendrick or Cuonzo Martin. Throwing money at assistants wasn’t the matter. Their personal decisions and careers came into play. Who wants to be an assistant forever? Or stay in one place? Not many. Still, losing our best recruiters was what really set us on our heels, twice in the past two decades, and neither has been adequately replaced.

 

[Born Boiler]

None of those coaches since Mackey opened inherited a mess like Painter did. If you extract his 3-13 first season, which was as much on Keady as Painter, his Big Ten winning percentage is .618, slightly better than Keady and just behind King.

Actually George King took over a program that was 15-27 in the Big Ten for the previous three years. Then he and Bob King landed a couple of future pros named Gilliam and Keller and, finally, Mount.

Painter inherited a first-team Juco All-American (Landry), plus great guards Teague and McKnight, but he also got the Mayo Clinic, which we could have filled. A half-dozen one-time or eventual starters became supporting casts -- sidelined in street clothes.

Speaking of clinics, if eye-ewe feels it must start its own engineering programs because somehow it can’t work with ours, why can’t we have our own med school and bury that damned devils’ pitchfork? You know … the one that declares our University Street building to be eye-ewe’s “Lafayette Campus.” Isn’t that diagnosis about two miles off target? What’s up, Doc?

 

[boilerzz]

Actually George King took over a program that was 15-27 in the Big Ten for the previous three years.

Interesting that you use the '62-'63 season to support your conclusion. Eddy went 2-12, then 8-6, then 5-9 in Big Ten play so adding that 3rd year makes for a more biased statistic, doesn't it?

If you compare the last two seasons, Eddy went 13-15 and 24-24 overall. Keady went 10-22 and 24-39 overall. Not even close.

 

[BoilerDeac]

Well, Painter will be back to .600 in the B1G if Purdue wins 14 league games this year.

Might be enough to net another league title, too.

"might," "maybe," "could be" "if" ...The Painter Story.

 

[Born Boiler]

Interesting that you use the '62-'63 season to support your conclusion. Eddy went 2-12, then 8-6, then 5-9 in Big Ten play so adding that 3rd year makes for a more biased statistic, doesn't it?

If you compare the last two seasons, Eddy went 13-15 and 24-24 overall. Keady went 10-22 and 24-39 overall. Not even close.

You're really big on "extracting" years. Extract Keady's six Big Ten championships in 25 years, too? Or just Painter's two cellars?

Fact is, counting each and every year, Painter has the worst record of any Purdue coach in Big Ten men's basketball in the 50 years since Mackey Arena opened. Opinion is, we should have been much, much better.

 

[boilerzz]

You're really big on "extracting" years. Extract Keady's six Big Ten championships in 25 years, too? Or just Painter's two cellars?

Fact is, counting each and every year, Painter has the worst record of any Purdue coach in Big Ten men's basketball in the 50 years since Mackey Arena opened. Opinion is, we should have been much, much better.

I extracted one year, which IMO was a valid exercise. You then chose an arbitrary cutoff to try to dispute my assertion. Given that freshmen were ineligible, none of the guys who played on that 2-12 season for Eddy ever suited up for George King. Hence why I think it was a poor cutoff.

 

[BoiledSteel]

"might," "maybe," "could be" "if" ...The Painter Story.

"ignore facts"... "I-know-all" ... "Painter has proven me wrong"...... The Hater story

 

[BoilerDeac]

"ignore facts"... "I-know-all" ... "Painter has proven me wrong"...... The Hater story

lol

 

[Born Boiler]

I extracted one year, which IMO was a valid exercise. You then chose an arbitrary cutoff to try to dispute my assertion. Given that freshmen were ineligible, none of the guys who played on that 2-12 season for Eddy ever suited up for George King. Hence why I think it was a poor cutoff.

And that's exactly why a three-year interval applies -- a full recruiting cycle in those days. King did more with less and did it quicker and better. He didn't inherit an All-American. He brought them in. And he reached the national championship game in four years.

 

[boilerzz]

And that's exactly why a three-year interval applies -- a full recruiting cycle in those days. King did more with less and did it quicker and better. He didn't inherit an All-American. He brought them in. And he reached the national championship game in four years.

Now you are making no sense and moving the argument.

King inherited guys who went 13-15 in the Big Ten in their careers. This is a fact.

What King did four years later has nothing to do with what I presented.

 

[Born Boiler]

Now you are making no sense and moving the argument.

King inherited guys who went 13-15 in the Big Ten in their careers. This is a fact.

What King did four years later has nothing to do with what I presented.

Painter inherited an All-American. That is a fact. He finished last. That is a fact. And not for the last time. That is a fact.

But, moving the argument, you want to blame Painter's whole first year on someone else.

Fine, we'll give full credit for the next year to Landry and Teague and for the Baby Boilers to Cuonzo Martin.

 

[boilerzz]

Painter inherited an All-American. That is a fact. He finished last. That is a fact. And not for the last time. That is a fact.

But, moving the argument, you want to blame Painter's whole first year on someone else.

Fine, we'll give full credit for the next year to Landry and Teague and for the Baby Boilers to Cuonzo Martin.

OK, you don't want to discuss the original point so I'm done.

 

[NVBoilerFan]

Here are s

Painter inherited an All-American. That is a fact. He finished last. That is a fact. And not for the last time. That is a fact.

But, moving the argument, you want to blame Painter's whole first year on someone else.

Fine, we'll give full credit for the next year to Landry and Teague and for the Baby Boilers to Cuonzo Martin.

Here are some facts for you:

After recovering from the leg injury, Landry returned to play his senior season under first-year head coach, Matt Painter. He recorded a career-high 35 points in the second game of the season against South Alabama before he re-injured his knee three games later against Evansville. He was forced to sit out the rest of the season and earned a medical redshirt to be eligible for the 2006–07 season. After missing three games his junior season and only playing in five his senior season, Landry's absence on the court, along with teammate, David Teague, left Purdue struggling with just 16 wins in the two seasons.[2]

 

[Born Boiler]

Here are s

Here are some facts for you:

After recovering from the leg injury, Landry returned to play his senior season under first-year head coach, Matt Painter. He recorded a career-high 35 points in the second game of the season against South Alabama before he re-injured his knee three games later against Evansville. He was forced to sit out the rest of the season and earned a medical redshirt to be eligible for the 2006–07 season. After missing three games his junior season and only playing in five his senior season, Landry's absence on the court, along with teammate, David Teague, left Purdue struggling with just 16 wins in the two seasons.[2]

I alluded to all the injuries earlier, adding that we need our own med school.

 

[Born Boiler]

OK, you don't want to discuss the original point so I'm done.

The original point was made in the original post. You're the one who started dropping years and making absurd exceptions.

 

[rgarlitz]

Interesting that you use the '62-'63 season to support your conclusion. Eddy went 2-12, then 8-6, then 5-9 in Big Ten play so adding that 3rd year makes for a more biased statistic, doesn't it?

If you compare the last two seasons, Eddy went 13-15 and 24-24 overall. Keady went 10-22 and 24-39 overall. Not even close.

boilerzz: just to clarify: I used 1963-1964 simply because that was the first year after Purdue finished last in 1962-1963. I'm not really trying to make any claim about Ray Eddy or Gene Keady. My only point is that Purdue has endured 3 last-place finishes in the past half century. Two have come under Painter.

I'm not trying to bash Painter. I think he's a pretty good coach, solid B+ level coach. A few deep runs in the NCAA tournament would more than forgive and forget his down years.

 

[boilerzz]

boilerzz: just to clarify: I used 1963-1964 simply because that was the first year after Purdue finished last in 1962-1963. I'm not really trying to make any claim about Ray Eddy or Gene Keady. My only point is that Purdue has endured 3 last-place finishes in the past half century. Two have come under Painter.

I'm not trying to bash Painter. I think he's a pretty good coach, solid B+ level coach. A few deep runs in the NCAA tournament would more than forgive and forget his down years.

I wasn't talking about your cutoff. I was talking about Born Boiler's. Your cutoff was fine to me. His was clearly biased IMO.