Athletic Big vs Large Slow Big
- Thread starter BTFU2
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Large. In college I believe that to be a larger miss match that most college teams cant counter. Thats assuming he is a talented large center, like Dickinson.
This sounds kind of like the old Larry Bird verses Magic Johnson or Jerry West verses Oscar Robertson type of question. My choices were Magic and Oscar. but all 4 players were awesome and won an NBA title.
I prefer athletic centers. My favorite would be Chamberlain with Kareem second. Shaq third.
The key for me is muscular and rebounding. I like to see the center be the focus of the offense and have the offense go through the center as the first option, , and have the center dish it back out to the perimeter. I also believe a center should be able to get 10+ rebounds and be a great shot blocker. Sort of like a hockey goalie on defense.
I love a center who can bully his way in the paint rather than one who spends his time on the perimeter shooting the three. Shooting 3s is what guards and forwards should do.
Recently, I kind of liked Frank the tank.
Of Dickinson, Kalk and Carlson, I probably like Dickinson the best. but none of the three makes me jump up and shout. I doubt any of the three will become First team multiple year All Americans or NBA all stars. I'm not a huge fan of Chet either despite his lofty rating. I admit I haven't seen him play. I don't know of many great basketball players from Minnesota.
While I'm not crazy in love with Dickinson, he seems a lot better than many other alternatives. and I'd rather give him a scholarship than bank it and save it for 2021. I've heard Furst's name mentioned a lot. I'm not overly excited about him either. Then again, the last three high school players I was really enthused about were Oden, LaBron and Kevin Garnett. I really wanted Oden to come to Purdue.
As for your point about final 4 in the other thread, making the final 4 is usually more dependent on your guard play than your center play. All final 4 teams seem to have awesome guards, or at least ones who can hit a clutch FT or 3 pt shot in a close game.
I prefer athletic centers. My favorite would be Chamberlain with Kareem second. Shaq third.
The key for me is muscular and rebounding. I like to see the center be the focus of the offense and have the offense go through the center as the first option, , and have the center dish it back out to the perimeter. I also believe a center should be able to get 10+ rebounds and be a great shot blocker. Sort of like a hockey goalie on defense.
I love a center who can bully his way in the paint rather than one who spends his time on the perimeter shooting the three. Shooting 3s is what guards and forwards should do.
Recently, I kind of liked Frank the tank.
Of Dickinson, Kalk and Carlson, I probably like Dickinson the best. but none of the three makes me jump up and shout. I doubt any of the three will become First team multiple year All Americans or NBA all stars. I'm not a huge fan of Chet either despite his lofty rating. I admit I haven't seen him play. I don't know of many great basketball players from Minnesota.
While I'm not crazy in love with Dickinson, he seems a lot better than many other alternatives. and I'd rather give him a scholarship than bank it and save it for 2021. I've heard Furst's name mentioned a lot. I'm not overly excited about him either. Then again, the last three high school players I was really enthused about were Oden, LaBron and Kevin Garnett. I really wanted Oden to come to Purdue.
As for your point about final 4 in the other thread, making the final 4 is usually more dependent on your guard play than your center play. All final 4 teams seem to have awesome guards, or at least ones who can hit a clutch FT or 3 pt shot in a close game.
The biggest, most skilled, athletic person you can get with an attitude to improve. With attitude, potential is important, chemistry with other players on the team mentally and skillfully. I liked a lot with Kalk, but if Purdue can get Dickinson I'll be very happy
People get enamored with pure size and mass, but the game now revolves around athletes, not space eaters. Too many bigs are skilled enough to play away from the basket and create mismatches. Having a giant like a Haas plant himself in the paint (unless you're playing a box in 1 zone or something) can actually become a liability, especially on offense because unless you're playing everything through him, he and his defender just clog the lane.
I want a big who can pick n pop, hit the 15-18 foot jumper (hint hint....waiting on you Haarms....)
I want a big who can pick n pop, hit the 15-18 foot jumper (hint hint....waiting on you Haarms....)
Hint hint heard he looking good shooting 15/18 footers and 3s
What's up with Makur Maker? The #8 player in the nation and #2 center, but according to Rivals, only 3 schools are recruiting him.
You haven't seen him play so you're not a huge fan? Makes no sense.
And because you don't know any good basketball players from Minnesota you don't want this one? Makes less sense.
Completely agree that it causes limitations. Having Haas in the paint surrounded by shooters also made the team his senior year dominant at times. Had VE not gotten ill and then seriously spraining his ankle that team would have been a serious contender for a 1 seed. If they go in as a 1 seed and Haas doesn’t get hurt who knows what happens.
Ah, thanks. Must be why the Rivals experts think he's going to Oregon.
this is not an attempt to disagree, but to clarify and provide some insight as to where I'm coming from. Like usual, it's longer than people want. I'm not trying to argue, just providing some background and food for thought.
I saw some of Chet's highlight reels. I also looked at some highlight reels of Dickinson and Kalkbrenner. From my experience, highlight reels are a lot different than watching game film. All they show are their best efforts, not their overall efforts. I saw what their physical body looks like. As for Chet, for somebody who is included in the top 5 in the nation, I came away unimpressed. He was good, but worthy of being top 5? Do other people here base their impression of players based solely on highlight reels and what they read on the internet ?
I don't consider myself an expert or scout. My son played on the AAU circuit for 3 years and I've stayed at a lot of Holiday Inn Express. From my perspective, a lot of AAU games are not real games as their coach is trying his best to showcase his players' talents in the first few rounds. The players show flashes of their talents, but are not always focused in every game. Some are - some aren't. A lot of AAU coaches earn their respect and recruit players based on how many of their players get scholarships, so they tend to play all of their players - especially in opening pool games. I didn't have the opportunity to watch many championship round games. My son played for the Illinois Bears, not Illinois Wolves, Irvin Fire, or Mean Streets. I'm also not going to Minnesota anytime soon to watch a high school basketball game. So I wonder, how many others here who love Chet have actually seen him play live?
To be ranked as one of the top 5 in the nation, I expect a lot more. I didn't say I didn't want him, or didn't like him or that he won't be a great college basketball player. Rather, I just want more from him than what I saw in his highlight reels. I once watched OJ Mayo in practices and Cliff Alexander, Rose, Stephens and Jabari Parker in live AAU games. Based on their hype at the time, I came away unimpressed with their play. It's not that their play wasn't great. It was. However, it's that the unheralded 3 star playing against them looked almost as good. I didn't see that huge gap in the difference of talent verses hype.
I'm not sure how best to describe it. To me if you are one of the 5 best in the nation, I expect a lot more. I expect that player to be the star that can carry a team. I expect that player to be awesome on both ends of the court. I expect more than just somebody who can drain threes. I expect that person to be somebody like Danny Manning or KG. I expect that person to start and star on any team they play on at every level from Day 1. Isn't that what KG and LeBron and Magic did? Isn't that what Zion Williams did ? is it unfair to compare Chet to Zion ?
Toni Kukoc was a great player nd NBA all star. Brad Lohaus was a great college player and played in the NBA. Bradley was tall and could block shots and was an NBA player. Manute Bol made it to the NBA. Swanigan, JJ and Hammons were great centers for Purdue. they were all great big men If Chet came to Purdue , he'd probably be one of the best big man in Purdue's history of players.
if I'm critical about a player, it doesn't mean he won't be a great player. But I have to ask, how much better is Chet than the 80th player like Kalk? I'm willing to be honest and admit, I don't know.
Treed may have said it best a couple of years ago. She said her son competed against many of those super hyped players at national competitions and there wasn't much difference. Romeo is good, but was he really worthy of being a lottery pick? Was he that much better than Carsen or Eastern?
So when I say I'm not impressed, it's more that I'm not that impressed with the hype a player is generating. and that to me, the player doesn't look that much better than players we already have or are recruiting. How much better is Chet than Goode or Furst?
As a parent who have seen it all been at many major events whether AAU Or USA tryouts my son played against many guys that you speak of and dominating a lot of them however politics name recognition and many many of these scouting services speak same language they talk about only the players they know but not players they actually see. Looking at a high light reel can be so deceiving bcuz u will only see all the good things the player does but u will never see all the bad things those players do. I like your take on this subject and as a mother who son played on a Nike sponsored team in HS and played all over the country against the elite elite many of these scouting services are guys who give opinions never ever facts.
If you are saying Dickinson is a “large, slow big” you are misinformed. He is much more skilled and nimble than say, Haas. HD is a decent athlete for his size. HD can shoot jumpers and is a skilled passer. He is not just a low post guy who camps in the lane. He’s a good rebounder.
Kalkbrenner is quicker afoot and a better leaper right now but is going to get pushed around because of his lack of girth.
I’d prefer HD over Kalkbrenner, but would have been happy with either.
That was the only serious knock on JJ. As athletically dominant as he was at his position, he couldn't hold his ground against some of the bigger bodies he played against. Physics was not his ally. So the ideal center might look like Dow, who has some bulk to go along with his speed and strength. But he will also need skills and experience to make it all work together.
I would prefer a 6' 6" high IQ, GRITTY, sharp shooting SG/SF with a name that rhymes with Cryin Rine
I believe a coach looks for match-ups. We have an athletic, shot blocking center in Dow. he actually has a lot of talent. Tre came to Purdue grossly out of shape due to his injury. I believe he's also very athletic and fast.
I don't know how athletic or fast Dickinson is. but it's a team game. All 5 players play off the strength of each other, and also should know and be able to cover for their deficiencies. Isn't that why Grady played last year? and Brian Cardinal?
I don't know how athletic or fast Dickinson is. but it's a team game. All 5 players play off the strength of each other, and also should know and be able to cover for their deficiencies. Isn't that why Grady played last year? and Brian Cardinal?
Well we could use a few since the quest continues for 5 but I’d take one when I can get it
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