An original thought

[Wolegib]

I know . It's rare on this board.

I was one of the first to shout the praise of Eastern. I wanted him to start and PJ come off the bench as a 6th man. I like the idea of having a skilled 6th man. the bucks drafted Villinova's 6th man in the first round showing how valuable 6th men actually are.

from the day he arrived, Eastern's mom kept talking about her son wanting to be a point guard. yes, he was athletic enough to play 4 different positions. But every single year, she pointed out his desire was to be a point guard.

It's been said by many respected posters on this board that painter runs a motion offense, and he does it without the typical traditional point guard play. And that's a main reason traditional elite point guards don't usually come to Purdue or play for Painter. They are not going to be that coach on the floor running the show and racking up 8-10 assists a game.

and thinking about all the times Eastern's mom said her son was a tremendous point guard, it made me think.

Maybe despite his ability and athleticism, Eastern didn't really want to play all those different positions. maybe he just wanted to exclusively play point guard at a school that has a traditional point guard. and that was never going to be Purdue. At Purdue he was going to be used at Multiple positions and never shine or be a star at any of them. Maybe Michigan promised him he'd be able to play strictly point guard. and maybe that's also what his handlers and his mom wanted him to do. his prospects as a pro being able to play 4 positions is low. but they are a lot higher if he was just a PG and dishing off the ball.

And maybe the same was true for Haarms. maybe he hated playing center, and knew that's what he was going to play if he returned to Purdue. When he was first being recruited, he was playing outside power forward for his Euro league team.

maybe both players left for basically selfish reasons in that they both wanted to play exclusively at one position, and that wasn't going to happen at Purdue. I've seen a lot of players willing to move positions to help out the team. And I've seen a lot of players refuse position changes and transfer away. it happens in all sports.

it's nobody's fault. they wanted to pursue their dream, and realized it wasn't going to happen at Purdue. The unfortunate part is that in doing a review of all the transfers at all the other schools, throughout sports history, it rarely happens at their next stop either. eastern may have been promised to play point guard. but what happens when the coach asks him to play other positions?

Michigan is a great school with a lot of incoming talent. They were looking for a veteran guard to add depth, not to be a star. Unfortunately, I don't see the grass being any greener there. Their one and dones will start. .

 

[BBG]

Anyone have a TLDR version?

 

[spradecki]

I know . It's rare on this board.

I was one of the first to shout the praise of Eastern. I wanted him to start and PJ come off the bench as a 6th man. I like the idea of having a skilled 6th man. the bucks drafted Villinova's 6th man in the first round showing how valuable 6th men actually are.

from the day he arrived, Eastern's mom kept talking about her son wanting to be a point guard. yes, he was athletic enough to play 4 different positions. But every single year, she pointed out his desire was to be a point guard.

It's been said by many respected posters on this board that painter runs a motion offense, and he does it without the typical traditional point guard play. And that's a main reason traditional elite point guards don't usually come to Purdue or play for Painter. They are not going to be that coach on the floor running the show and racking up 8-10 assists a game.

and thinking about all the times Eastern's mom said her son was a tremendous point guard, it made me think.

Maybe despite his ability and athleticism, Eastern didn't really want to play all those different positions. maybe he just wanted to exclusively play point guard at a school that has a traditional point guard. and that was never going to be Purdue. At Purdue he was going to be used at Multiple positions and never shine or be a star at any of them. Maybe Michigan promised him he'd be able to play strictly point guard. and maybe that's also what his handlers and his mom wanted him to do. his prospects as a pro being able to play 4 positions is low. but they are a lot higher if he was just a PG and dishing off the ball.

And maybe the same was true for Haarms. maybe he hated playing center, and knew that's what he was going to play if he returned to Purdue. When he was first being recruited, he was playing outside power forward for his Euro league team.

maybe both players left for basically selfish reasons in that they both wanted to play exclusively at one position, and that wasn't going to happen at Purdue. I've seen a lot of players willing to move positions to help out the team. And I've seen a lot of players refuse position changes and transfer away. it happens in all sports.

it's nobody's fault. they wanted to pursue their dream, and realized it wasn't going to happen at Purdue. The unfortunate part is that in doing a review of all the transfers at all the other schools, throughout sports history, it rarely happens at their next stop either. eastern may have been promised to play point guard. but what happens when the coach asks him to play other positions?

Michigan is a great school with a lot of incoming talent. They were looking for a veteran guard to add depth, not to be a star. Unfortunately, I don't see the grass being any greener there. Their one and dones will start. .

the problem michigan will have is there is no jelly

 

[northside100]

I know . It's rare on this board.

I was one of the first to shout the praise of Eastern. I wanted him to start and PJ come off the bench as a 6th man. I like the idea of having a skilled 6th man. the bucks drafted Villinova's 6th man in the first round showing how valuable 6th men actually are.

from the day he arrived, Eastern's mom kept talking about her son wanting to be a point guard. yes, he was athletic enough to play 4 different positions. But every single year, she pointed out his desire was to be a point guard.

It's been said by many respected posters on this board that painter runs a motion offense, and he does it without the typical traditional point guard play. And that's a main reason traditional elite point guards don't usually come to Purdue or play for Painter. They are not going to be that coach on the floor running the show and racking up 8-10 assists a game.

and thinking about all the times Eastern's mom said her son was a tremendous point guard, it made me think.

Maybe despite his ability and athleticism, Eastern didn't really want to play all those different positions. maybe he just wanted to exclusively play point guard at a school that has a traditional point guard. and that was never going to be Purdue. At Purdue he was going to be used at Multiple positions and never shine or be a star at any of them. Maybe Michigan promised him he'd be able to play strictly point guard. and maybe that's also what his handlers and his mom wanted him to do. his prospects as a pro being able to play 4 positions is low. but they are a lot higher if he was just a PG and dishing off the ball.

And maybe the same was true for Haarms. maybe he hated playing center, and knew that's what he was going to play if he returned to Purdue. When he was first being recruited, he was playing outside power forward for his Euro league team.

maybe both players left for basically selfish reasons in that they both wanted to play exclusively at one position, and that wasn't going to happen at Purdue. I've seen a lot of players willing to move positions to help out the team. And I've seen a lot of players refuse position changes and transfer away. it happens in all sports.

it's nobody's fault. they wanted to pursue their dream, and realized it wasn't going to happen at Purdue. The unfortunate part is that in doing a review of all the transfers at all the other schools, throughout sports history, it rarely happens at their next stop either. eastern may have been promised to play point guard. but what happens when the coach asks him to play other positions?

Michigan is a great school with a lot of incoming talent. They were looking for a veteran guard to add depth, not to be a star. Unfortunately, I don't see the grass being any greener there. Their one and dones will start. .

Not necessarily original but not inaccurate.

 

[Pu71indy]

Anyone have a TLDR version?

I'm searching for the Cliff Notes version.

 

[bodog57]

It's tough playing point guard. Especially if you are offensively challenged, not a threat from the free throw line, and make poor decisions with the ball in your hands (when it should be your season to shine).

We'll miss his defense though.

 

[SCBoiler1]

I know . It's rare on this board.

I was one of the first to shout the praise of Eastern. I wanted him to start and PJ come off the bench as a 6th man. I like the idea of having a skilled 6th man. the bucks drafted Villinova's 6th man in the first round showing how valuable 6th men actually are.

from the day he arrived, Eastern's mom kept talking about her son wanting to be a point guard. yes, he was athletic enough to play 4 different positions. But every single year, she pointed out his desire was to be a point guard.

It's been said by many respected posters on this board that painter runs a motion offense, and he does it without the typical traditional point guard play. And that's a main reason traditional elite point guards don't usually come to Purdue or play for Painter. They are not going to be that coach on the floor running the show and racking up 8-10 assists a game.

and thinking about all the times Eastern's mom said her son was a tremendous point guard, it made me think.

Maybe despite his ability and athleticism, Eastern didn't really want to play all those different positions. maybe he just wanted to exclusively play point guard at a school that has a traditional point guard. and that was never going to be Purdue. At Purdue he was going to be used at Multiple positions and never shine or be a star at any of them. Maybe Michigan promised him he'd be able to play strictly point guard. and maybe that's also what his handlers and his mom wanted him to do. his prospects as a pro being able to play 4 positions is low. but they are a lot higher if he was just a PG and dishing off the ball.

And maybe the same was true for Haarms. maybe he hated playing center, and knew that's what he was going to play if he returned to Purdue. When he was first being recruited, he was playing outside power forward for his Euro league team.

maybe both players left for basically selfish reasons in that they both wanted to play exclusively at one position, and that wasn't going to happen at Purdue. I've seen a lot of players willing to move positions to help out the team. And I've seen a lot of players refuse position changes and transfer away. it happens in all sports.

it's nobody's fault. they wanted to pursue their dream, and realized it wasn't going to happen at Purdue. The unfortunate part is that in doing a review of all the transfers at all the other schools, throughout sports history, it rarely happens at their next stop either. eastern may have been promised to play point guard. but what happens when the coach asks him to play other positions?

Michigan is a great school with a lot of incoming talent. They were looking for a veteran guard to add depth, not to be a star. Unfortunately, I don't see the grass being any greener there. Their one and dones will start. .

Good summary. When Nojel declared for the draft, I thought it might cause some trouble if he came back. It told me he still had NBA aspiration and I feared he would be more interested showcasing his "talents" than doing what was best for the team. No matter what you think of Nojel, Purdue could have used him next year. Maybe not in his past role but it would have given us more flexibility in our rotations. In hind sight it doesn't look like Nojel would have been satisfied with just doing what was best for the team, so its probably a good thing he's left.

 

[indyogb]

He is a world class athlete, which is probably why he thinks he has NBA potential. I think his current skill set, however, is not a great fit for the NBA. I've been wrong before, though. Given that thought, what you said definitely makes sense. Maybe he'll go to Michigan and his offense will really shine when he can focus on playing PG, exclusively.

I don't wish him ill will, even though I am kind of irritated that he jumped ship to a 'posh' in-conference rival. I think we'll miss Haarms and Eastern. I still think next year's team should be a solid NCAA tournament team (*if* incoming players live up to expectations). If they had Haarms and Eastern, it was probably a solid Sweet 16 team. I'm still kind of shell-shocked at suddenly losing two seniors we were expecting to rely on heavily next year.

 

[Purdue0034]

I watched a good portion of the Michigan State game from the 2018-2019 season last night on BTN and it was interesting how much better both Haarms and Eastern looked then, then they did almost all of this past season. Nojel still struggled with his shot of course but he seemed quicker, lighter and more aggressive going for the ball than he did all of this year. Haarms likewise was more aggressive it seemed. Haarms of course had some injuries this year that I think really slowed him down. This makes it even more frustrating that Haarms left when I think he could have been a major factor for us next season if he was healthy and competing at 100%. Just wish things would have turned out differently for these two. Ok, now I am moving on and looking forward to hopefully having a season, next season.

 

[ddmills333]

Nojel will NEVER EVER EVER EVER see an NBA roster and it sure as heck wouldn’t be at PG!!!!!! He was going to struggle to get minutes as a senior at Purdue and will struggle to see mins at Michigan in 2021...The whole problem with momma is she wouldn’t let him play football and that’s what a guy that’s 6’6 235lb needs to be doing when he can’t shoot, pass or dribble on the court.

 

[JohnHoosierr]

Nojel will NEVER EVER EVER EVER see an NBA roster and it sure as heck wouldn’t be at PG!!!!!! He was going to struggle to get minutes as a senior at Purdue and will struggle to see mins at Michigan in 2021...The whole problem with momma is she wouldn’t let him play football and that’s what a guy that’s 6’6 235lb needs to be doing when he can’t shoot, pass or dribble on the court.

It is interesting that some people still think he has a shot at the NBA when he has never once demonstrated an NBA level skill set. He's a career 5 ppg scorer in college...

 

[mathboy]

I know . It's rare on this board.

I was one of the first to shout the praise of Eastern. I wanted him to start and PJ come off the bench as a 6th man. I like the idea of having a skilled 6th man. the bucks drafted Villinova's 6th man in the first round showing how valuable 6th men actually are.

from the day he arrived, Eastern's mom kept talking about her son wanting to be a point guard. yes, he was athletic enough to play 4 different positions. But every single year, she pointed out his desire was to be a point guard.

It's been said by many respected posters on this board that painter runs a motion offense, and he does it without the typical traditional point guard play. And that's a main reason traditional elite point guards don't usually come to Purdue or play for Painter. They are not going to be that coach on the floor running the show and racking up 8-10 assists a game.

and thinking about all the times Eastern's mom said her son was a tremendous point guard, it made me think.

Maybe despite his ability and athleticism, Eastern didn't really want to play all those different positions. maybe he just wanted to exclusively play point guard at a school that has a traditional point guard. and that was never going to be Purdue. At Purdue he was going to be used at Multiple positions and never shine or be a star at any of them. Maybe Michigan promised him he'd be able to play strictly point guard. and maybe that's also what his handlers and his mom wanted him to do. his prospects as a pro being able to play 4 positions is low. but they are a lot higher if he was just a PG and dishing off the ball.

And maybe the same was true for Haarms. maybe he hated playing center, and knew that's what he was going to play if he returned to Purdue. When he was first being recruited, he was playing outside power forward for his Euro league team.

maybe both players left for basically selfish reasons in that they both wanted to play exclusively at one position, and that wasn't going to happen at Purdue. I've seen a lot of players willing to move positions to help out the team. And I've seen a lot of players refuse position changes and transfer away. it happens in all sports.

it's nobody's fault. they wanted to pursue their dream, and realized it wasn't going to happen at Purdue. The unfortunate part is that in doing a review of all the transfers at all the other schools, throughout sports history, it rarely happens at their next stop either. eastern may have been promised to play point guard. but what happens when the coach asks him to play other positions?

Michigan is a great school with a lot of incoming talent. They were looking for a veteran guard to add depth, not to be a star. Unfortunately, I don't see the grass being any greener there. Their one and dones will start. .

I find a lot of misconceptions in this post, but foremost is the idea that both Haarms and Eastern were somehow forced to play positions that they didn’t want to play. That is a bit of a novel idea, but one with little substance behind it. I am beginning to think there is a group of posters that think that Matt Painter does these subversive and secretive things that drive off really great players. I don’t know how you can reach those sorts of conclusions if you listen to him talk. I think a simpler explanation is probably more accurate.

Haarms was always a center, and that’s what he wanted to play. Williams simply is better at the position, so Haarms wanted to play on a team without Williams in front of him. Haarms did try playing the forward position with Williams at center, but he didn’t catch on to the whole idea that he had to move more.

Eastern was recruited as a PG and played that position. I think you might not understand the flexibility of the motion offense. Any good passing PG will rack up assists in the motion, perhaps more so than in any other style offense... if he can make the right passes and if he lets the ball stick in his hands for the right moment. Watch replays of last year. As soon as he gets the ball over the half court, Jelly passes it off. He could hardly wait to get the hot potato out of his hands. He doesn’t position himself to get the ball In rotation and make the entry pass or assist. He did much better at this the year before. This year, he seemed to lose confidence in his own skills. I was pretty down watching him hide from scoring opportunities. Something went very wrong in his head this past year.

I am not sure how you draw the conclusion that somehow our offense keeps us from recruiting elite guards. We can point to Carsen, or Etwaan as great examples of how the motion frees up scorers to make plays. Painters offense has often been one of the best in the country. Our recruiting challenges fall more strongly on average facilities, a campus that lacks glamor, and a no nonsense coach that seems to have issues with finding envelopes of cash or slick houses for relatives, etc.

I will give you this. You are very correct about the Michigan situation. That grass is not greener. I really doubt Jelly plays another college game. As someone else said, “one semester away from a Purdue degree, and now unemployed. Thanks momma”.

 

[Do Dah Day]

I think you might not understand the flexibility of the motion offense. Any good passing PG will rack up assists in the motion, perhaps more so than in any other style offense... if he can make the right passes and if he lets the ball stick in his hands for the right moment. Watch replays of last year. As soon as he gets the ball over the half court, Jelly passes it off. He could hardly wait to get the hot potato out of his hands. He doesn’t position himself to get the ball In rotation and make the entry pass or assist. He did much better at this the year before. This year, he seemed to lose confidence in his own skills. I was pretty down watching him hide from scoring opportunities. Something went very wrong in his head this past year. --- *** As said so by Momma.***

Absolutely spot-on! Let's not forget that Steve Alford, Isiah Thomas, Quinn Buckner and Damon Bailey were guards in the Motion Offense. (sorry, but they were)

 

[mathboy]

Absolutely spot-on! Let's not forget that Steve Alford, Isiah Thomas, Quinn Buckner and Damon Bailey were guards in the Motion Offense. (sorry, but they were)

That’s true I think. Coach Knight ran the motion offense to perfection. Gee, I wonder if the motion offense is good enough to win a national title? TIC of course.

 

[Do Dah Day]

Watch replays of last year. As soon as he gets the ball over the half court, Jelly passes it off. He could hardly wait to get the hot potato out of his hands. He doesn’t position himself to get the ball In rotation and make the entry pass or assist.

BUT!~ ... you do have to MOVE!

 

[tjreese]

That’s true I think. Coach Knight ran the motion offense to perfection. Gee, I wonder if the motion offense is good enough to win a national title? TIC of course.

It is..but I think you need a "few" quick hitters due to the clock. Remove the clock and it works even better

 

[tjreese]

BUT!~ ... you do have to MOVE!

There were a few times Nojel beat his man and had an uncontested layup only to not take it and pass it out. Why I have no idea? I'm excited for next season and not sure why or how I get drawn in to something I'm ready to move past...

 

[Dryfly88]

There were a few times Nojel beat his man and had an uncontested layup only to not take it and pass it out. Why I have no idea? I'm excited for next season and not sure why or how I get drawn in to something I'm ready to move past...

He was afraid he would miss (likely) or get fouled and miss free throws (very likely).

 

[purduepat1969]

I find a lot of misconceptions in this post, but foremost is the idea that both Haarms and Eastern were somehow forced to play positions that they didn’t want to play. That is a bit of a novel idea, but one with little substance behind it. I am beginning to think there is a group of posters that think that Matt Painter does these subversive and secretive things that drive off really great players. I don’t know how you can reach those sorts of conclusions if you listen to him talk. I think a simpler explanation is probably more accurate.

Haarms was always a center, and that’s what he wanted to play. Williams simply is better at the position, so Haarms wanted to play on a team without Williams in front of him. Haarms did try playing the forward position with Williams at center, but he didn’t catch on to the whole idea that he had to move more.

Eastern was recruited as a PG and played that position. I think you might not understand the flexibility of the motion offense. Any good passing PG will rack up assists in the motion, perhaps more so than in any other style offense... if he can make the right passes and if he lets the ball stick in his hands for the right moment. Watch replays of last year. As soon as he gets the ball over the half court, Jelly passes it off. He could hardly wait to get the hot potato out of his hands. He doesn’t position himself to get the ball In rotation and make the entry pass or assist. He did much better at this the year before. This year, he seemed to lose confidence in his own skills. I was pretty down watching him hide from scoring opportunities. Something went very wrong in his head this past year.

I am not sure how you draw the conclusion that somehow our offense keeps us from recruiting elite guards. We can point to Carsen, or Etwaan as great examples of how the motion frees up scorers to make plays. Painters offense has often been one of the best in the country. Our recruiting challenges fall more strongly on average facilities, a campus that lacks glamor, and a no nonsense coach that seems to have issues with finding envelopes of cash or slick houses for relatives, etc.

I will give you this. You are very correct about the Michigan situation. That grass is not greener. I really doubt Jelly plays another college game. As someone else said, “one semester away from a Purdue degree, and now unemployed. Thanks momma”.

That's absolutely correct. Any guard in the motion gets an equal opportunity to handle the ball, shoot, drive the lane, or pass to an open teammate for an assist. And if Nojel or his mom think he needs to go elsewhere to fix his confidence, well that's not Purdue's issue...

 

[tjreese]

He was afraid he would miss (likely) or get fouled and miss free throws (very likely).

I think it was FTs. Just dunk it. Gotta feel for a kid after being in the F8 and doesnt take the gimme.

 

[combes]

I know . It's rare on this board.

I was one of the first to shout the praise of Eastern. I wanted him to start and PJ come off the bench as a 6th man. I like the idea of having a skilled 6th man. the bucks drafted Villinova's 6th man in the first round showing how valuable 6th men actually are.

from the day he arrived, Eastern's mom kept talking about her son wanting to be a point guard. yes, he was athletic enough to play 4 different positions. But every single year, she pointed out his desire was to be a point guard.

It's been said by many respected posters on this board that painter runs a motion offense, and he does it without the typical traditional point guard play. And that's a main reason traditional elite point guards don't usually come to Purdue or play for Painter. They are not going to be that coach on the floor running the show and racking up 8-10 assists a game.

and thinking about all the times Eastern's mom said her son was a tremendous point guard, it made me think.

Maybe despite his ability and athleticism, Eastern didn't really want to play all those different positions. maybe he just wanted to exclusively play point guard at a school that has a traditional point guard. and that was never going to be Purdue. At Purdue he was going to be used at Multiple positions and never shine or be a star at any of them. Maybe Michigan promised him he'd be able to play strictly point guard. and maybe that's also what his handlers and his mom wanted him to do. his prospects as a pro being able to play 4 positions is low. but they are a lot higher if he was just a PG and dishing off the ball.

And maybe the same was true for Haarms. maybe he hated playing center, and knew that's what he was going to play if he returned to Purdue. When he was first being recruited, he was playing outside power forward for his Euro league team.

maybe both players left for basically selfish reasons in that they both wanted to play exclusively at one position, and that wasn't going to happen at Purdue. I've seen a lot of players willing to move positions to help out the team. And I've seen a lot of players refuse position changes and transfer away. it happens in all sports.

it's nobody's fault. they wanted to pursue their dream, and realized it wasn't going to happen at Purdue. The unfortunate part is that in doing a review of all the transfers at all the other schools, throughout sports history, it rarely happens at their next stop either. eastern may have been promised to play point guard. but what happens when the coach asks him to play other positions?

Michigan is a great school with a lot of incoming talent. They were looking for a veteran guard to add depth, not to be a star. Unfortunately, I don't see the grass being any greener there. Their one and dones will start. .

Michigan doesn’t have any one and dones. The two that might have been ended up not coming.

 

[BBG]

BUT!~ ... you do have to MOVE!

I use Painter yelling "move" as my wife's ringtone. I am sure there are some underlying meanings there, but at least it's not eh Friday the 3th theme anymore and it gets me moving!

 

[topurdue2]

Anyone have a TLDR version?

Something about son, major division one track.... Nojel no good @Michigan....

 

[Wolegib]

I liked the examples of Bucker and Thomas as Pgs. I'm not sure how successful Bailey really was. I always thought of Alford as a shooting guard rather than as a PG. it's kind of like I always thought of reggie miller, kobe, and ray Allen as shooting guards. I'm not sure what Westbrook would classify as.

As for haarms, if you dig deep enough and review his playing history in Europe, he was a very tall power forward who played on the wing. and his team had a shorter but more powerful guy that played center under the basket. before he came to Purdue, he was not a center. That's why I speculated, that maybe he didn't like playing center, And he wanted to go back to playing on the perimeter.


or you can go back to one of my previous posts where I speculated about Stephens before he decided to leave. I basically said starters who see their time and roles reduced have a tendency to transfer. it happened to both Stephens and Martin. and they left. it happened to Haarms and was about to happen to eastern next year.

a lot of starters don't like to see their roles reduced. It happens at every school. haarms is kind of interesting. UK was very interested in him. but not to be their main man. It would appear as if Haarms choose a lesser program where he could shines and be showcased verses joining a perennial power house where he may come off the bench. I can understand leaving purdue. But picking BYU over UK said all I needed to know.

 

[Purdue85]

I liked the examples of Bucker and Thomas as Pgs. I'm not sure how successful Bailey really was. I always thought of Alford as a shooting guard rather than as a PG. it's kind of like I always thought of reggie miller, kobe, and ray Allen as shooting guards. I'm not sure what Westbrook would classify as.

As for haarms, if you dig deep enough and review his playing history in Europe, he was a very tall power forward who played on the wing. and his team had a shorter but more powerful guy that played center under the basket. before he came to Purdue, he was not a center. That's why I speculated, that maybe he didn't like playing center, And he wanted to go back to playing on the perimeter.


or you can go back to one of my previous posts where I speculated about Stephens before he decided to leave. I basically said starters who see their time and roles reduced have a tendency to transfer. it happened to both Stephens and Martin. and they left. it happened to Haarms and was about to happen to eastern next year.

a lot of starters don't like to see their roles reduced. It happens at every school. haarms is kind of interesting. UK was very interested in him. but not to be their main man. It would appear as if Haarms choose a lesser program where he could shines and be showcased verses joining a perennial power house where he may come off the bench. I can understand leaving purdue. But picking BYU over UK said all I needed to know.

If by "Martin" you mean Scott Martin, your assumption is incorrect. Scott Martin did not see his role reduced. What's more, he really wasn't what one would have considered a "starter", although he did start in 8 of the 30 games in which he appeared.

Scott Martin played significant minutes throughout the season, even down the stretch. He was limited in action in the middle of the B1G season, missing 2 games due to an ankle sprain, but it is incorrect to assert his role was reduced. If you're interested in the stats, he averaged 21.9 minutes per game, and down the stretch saw games with minutes of 22, 24, 22, 29, 21 and 15. That's not a reduced role. If anything, his role increased slightly. (For the season, he averaged 8 ppg. In that "stretch" of time he also scored 12, 4, 10, 14, 8 and 0.)

Publicly, Martin tried to make it about not being a good fit in Painter's "system", but it had the appearance of being more about other FR getting substantially more PT (and starts) than he did, and coveting a greater role than he had.

 

[Wolegib]

If by "Martin" you mean Scott Martin, your assumption is incorrect. Scott Martin did not see his role reduced. What's more, he really wasn't what one would have considered a "starter", although he did start in 8 of the 30 games in which he appeared.

Scott Martin played significant minutes throughout the season, even down the stretch. He was limited in action in the middle of the B1G season, missing 2 games due to an ankle sprain, but it is incorrect to assert his role was reduced. If you're interested in the stats, he averaged 21.9 minutes per game, and down the stretch saw games with minutes of 22, 24, 22, 29, 21 and 15. That's not a reduced role. If anything, his role increased slightly. (For the season, he averaged 8 ppg. In that "stretch" of time he also scored 12, 4, 10, 14, 8 and 0.)

Publicly, Martin tried to make it about not being a good fit in Painter's "system", but it had the appearance of being more about other FR getting substantially more PT (and starts) than he did, and coveting a greater role than he had.

I will agree with the stats. But wasn't it kind of obvious going forward with the incoming players, and current team composition, Martin and Hummel would essentially be pegged against the same position in the future. and that rather than becoming the featured player, he'd be looking at sharing his time with hummel. .

if martin had decided to stay, would he or would hummel be the projected starter the following year? I have to believe Painter discussed this at the end of the year with both players, and was honest with both players. I firmly believe purdue would have been a lot stronger if Martin had stayed whether he started, came off the bench or shared time with hummel.

but in playing the what if game, I have to believe Martin didn't like what he saw. I believe Hummel and Martin were good friends at the time. the success of one would impact the success of the other. In order for both friends to enjoy success, one would have to leave. I believe martin left because of his friendship with Hummel.

I believe we can agree many things are said privately that are never said publically. I'm not sure I believe the story about not being a good fit for painter's system. I ca n believe he was not a good fit to "start" in painter's system.

and therein lies the problem with players transferring. Players leave for a variety of reasons. Players make decisions, and sometimes those decisions are made out of future perceptions which may or may not be real or come true.

and many times those decisions are mistakes. as a history buff, I've noticed history repeats itself many times. The handler/agent is never wrong.

 

[IUhaterade]

I will agree with the stats. But wasn't it kind of obvious going forward with the incoming players, and current team composition, Martin and Hummel would essentially be pegged against the same position in the future. and that rather than becoming the featured player, he'd be looking at sharing his time with hummel. .

if martin had decided to stay, would he or would hummel be the projected starter the following year? I have to believe Painter discussed this at the end of the year with both players, and was honest with both players. I firmly believe purdue would have been a lot stronger if Martin had stayed whether he started, came off the bench or shared time with hummel.

but in playing the what if game, I have to believe Martin didn't like what he saw. I believe Hummel and Martin were good friends at the time. the success of one would impact the success of the other. In order for both friends to enjoy success, one would have to leave. I believe martin left because of his friendship with Hummel.

I believe we can agree many things are said privately that are never said publically. I'm not sure I believe the story about not being a good fit for painter's system. I ca n believe he was not a good fit to "start" in painter's system.

and therein lies the problem with players transferring. Players leave for a variety of reasons. Players make decisions, and sometimes those decisions are made out of future perceptions which may or may not be real or come true.

and many times those decisions are mistakes. as a history buff, I've noticed history repeats itself many times. The handler/agent is never wrong.

personally I would have loved to see

1 Jackson
2 Moore
3 Hummel
4 Martin
5 Johnson

Seems like Martin didn’t have the confidence that he could win his fair share of minutes if what you are saying is correct.

 

[Purdue85]

I will agree with the stats. But wasn't it kind of obvious going forward with the incoming players, and current team composition, Martin and Hummel would essentially be pegged against the same position in the future. and that rather than becoming the featured player, he'd be looking at sharing his time with hummel. .

if martin had decided to stay, would he or would hummel be the projected starter the following year? I have to believe Painter discussed this at the end of the year with both players, and was honest with both players. I firmly believe purdue would have been a lot stronger if Martin had stayed whether he started, came off the bench or shared time with hummel.

but in playing the what if game, I have to believe Martin didn't like what he saw. I believe Hummel and Martin were good friends at the time. the success of one would impact the success of the other. In order for both friends to enjoy success, one would have to leave. I believe martin left because of his friendship with Hummel.

I believe we can agree many things are said privately that are never said publically. I'm not sure I believe the story about not being a good fit for painter's system. I ca n believe he was not a good fit to "start" in painter's system.

and therein lies the problem with players transferring. Players leave for a variety of reasons. Players make decisions, and sometimes those decisions are made out of future perceptions which may or may not be real or come true.

and many times those decisions are mistakes. as a history buff, I've noticed history repeats itself many times. The handler/agent is never wrong.

Just take the "L", Bigs. Martin's role was NOT reduced in any way, shape or form. They both were going to see significant PT going forward. BOTH.

You can dream up any conspiracy you want, sometimes Painter is just a d@mn good, open and honest coach.

There.

I said it.

He doesn't have to be portrayed as you like to portray him.

There doesn't have to be a "publically" (sic) vs privately narrative.