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Allow unbridled optimism?

Boilermaker

Redshirt Freshman
Aug 31, 2002
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For years I have kept my expectations in check to avoid the dreaded heartbreaking soul crushing letdown, but this year I find myself wanting to drink the kool-aid like no time since the mid 90's, yet I am still hesitant. What say you fellow Boilermakers?
 
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I think this year's team could be really good by late January and February. But there are questions at the guard positions, and AJ looks like the only returning starter who will start at the same position. So it might take some time for the team to hit its stride.

A deep run in March will make everybody forget about November and December hiccups.
 
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For years I have kept my expectations in check to avoid the dreaded heartbreaking soul crushing down, but this year I find myself wanting to drink the kool-aid like no time since the mid 90's, yet I am still hesitant. What say you fellow Boilermakers?
I'm optimistic, but I try not to take success for granted. There are a lot of strong teams in the Big Ten and the coaching is tremendous, top to bottom. If Purdue wins a Big Ten championship, it will be a great accomplishment, as Purdue will need to beat out some teams with equal or better talent. Purdue could finish fourth and still have a very good season, because of the quality of the league.

As far as the NCAA Tournament, I don't worry about it much until it approaches. I think a nice run is very possible, though.
 
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For years I have kept my expectations in check to avoid the dreaded heartbreaking soul crushing down, but this year I find myself wanting to drink the kool-aid like no time since the mid 90's, yet I am still hesitant. What say you fellow Boilermakers?

Many big things must be fixed or answered for this team to be what we think and hope it can be.

Less Turnovers
More efficient scoring
Better 3pt shooting
PG play
Force more opponent TOs
FT shooting

That being said, there are several things that we know we will do very well

Defense
Rebounding
Rim protection
Passing

Lots to be excited about, a lot of issues as well. Either way, we will be in the tourney for sure and anything can happen in March
 
I think this team is worthy of unbridled optimism and I am going to be loud and enthusiastic as I believe these Boilers are among the 10 best in the nation to start the season. Other than JO, this is the same team as last year when we were picked 13th in the B1G by some, so the pre-season picks of 20th-26th (nationally) and 3rd in the B1G are expected. I love this team being under rated. BOILER UP!
 
For years I have kept my expectations in check to avoid the dreaded heartbreaking soul crushing letdown, but this year I find myself wanting to drink the kool-aid like no time since the mid 90's, yet I am still hesitant. What say you fellow Boilermakers?

the kool aid is extra tasty this year.
 
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For years I have kept my expectations in check to avoid the dreaded heartbreaking soul crushing letdown, but this year I find myself wanting to drink the kool-aid like no time since the mid 90's, yet I am still hesitant. What say you fellow Boilermakers?


For me, I'm excited but I don't have unbridled optimism. I believe that an elite, successful NCAA Tournament type of team needs to have one of either a "star" caliber point guard, a "star" caliber 2-guard or both. While there are a lot of GOOD options for the 2-guard spot (Mathias, Stephens, Cline, possibly Davis), I'm not sure that this team has that "star" caliber of player at either guard position.
 
I think this team is worthy of unbridled optimism and I am going to be loud and enthusiastic as I believe these Boilers are among the 10 best in the nation to start the season. Other than JO, this is the same team as last year when we were picked 13th in the B1G by some, so the pre-season picks of 20th-26th (nationally) and 3rd in the B1G are expected. I love this team being under rated. BOILER UP!

Umm, you forgot the minor addition of a McDonadls All-American and one of the tOp recruits in the country...
 
For me, I'm excited but I don't have unbridled optimism. I believe that an elite, successful NCAA Tournament type of team needs to have one of either a "star" caliber point guard, a "star" caliber 2-guard or both. While there are a lot of GOOD options for the 2-guard spot (Mathias, Stephens, Cline, possibly Davis), I'm not sure that this team has that "star" caliber of player at either guard position.

Ya... Wisconsin had neither of those... I would say they were pretty successful with their Final 4 and then National Runner Up
 
I have more optimism than most I think. I've chugged the koolaid all sumet long and take shots of it every day at lunch. I think our struggles will be pulling away late from a team or 2 way in the year when we should blow them out. I really think this will be a huge year and we will be ranked top 10 and still climbing by January!!! I think Painter has his players. They are on board with his style and we have some great senior leadership.
 
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For years I have kept my expectations in check to avoid the dreaded heartbreaking soul crushing letdown, but this year I find myself wanting to drink the kool-aid like no time since the mid 90's, yet I am still hesitant. What say you fellow Boilermakers?

There's nothing wrong with being excited.

However, with this board in particular, people will take unrealistic expectations and then be pissed off in February when we're not top 5 in the country.

The people who create unrealistic expectations and then get pissed off about it when reality sets in are the annoying ones.
 
For me, I'm excited but I don't have unbridled optimism. I believe that an elite, successful NCAA Tournament type of team needs to have one of either a "star" caliber point guard, a "star" caliber 2-guard or both. While there are a lot of GOOD options for the 2-guard spot (Mathias, Stephens, Cline, possibly Davis), I'm not sure that this team has that "star" caliber of player at either guard position.
I think that college basketball has been in a guard oriented era long enough now that defenses have adjusted. For example, defenses apply less half court pressure, zones and pack line defenses are more prevalent, and centers tend to look a lot like tall forwards. If Purdue can execute at a high level, which includes minimizing turnovers and hitting outside shots, I think that Purdue has a chance to use these trends to its advantage and dominate from the inside out. I'm not saying that it will happen, but I think that this team has a chance to be among the best in the country.
 
There's nothing wrong with being excited.

However, with this board in particular, people will take unrealistic expectations and then be pissed off in February when we're not top 5 in the country.

The people who create unrealistic expectations and then get pissed off about it when reality sets in are the annoying ones.
I agree with lbode. Our expectations need to be realistic. We have a talented team, but we do not have real power players. Most of the talent on the team is of relatively the same level. They are good players, and some are good-to-great players. Don't start thinking they are world beaters and Final Four material. Yes, if they play together at a high level of team work, and Swany proves to be the star we think he might be, and they get lucky, very lucky...

Just to temper the thinking, let's just look in the BIG. Arguably, Maryland has as strong a front court as we do, and probably a better backcourt on paper. Trimble and the Duke transfer could make a tremendous pair. Both UM and IU can claim as talented a back court as we will field, and MSU might have the best balance of front and back court talent as any team in the BIG.

All that should not take away our enthusiasm for our team, but we need to recognise the challenges they face and be excited we are in position to meet and over come those challenges. The BIG is going to be an even fight every night. It won't be like sailing the Bismark into a fleet of wooden sailing ships and blasting away. There will rarely be a one-sided game in the BIG this year. Even the weakest of teams will get a victory or two. The difference between the bottom and the top of the BIG is very slight. I'm just glad we are sitting near the top at the start.

:cool:
 
I think that college basketball has been in a guard oriented era long enough now that defenses have adjusted. For example, defenses apply less half court pressure, zones and pack line defenses are more prevalent, and centers tend to look a lot like tall forwards. If Purdue can execute at a high level, which includes minimizing turnovers and hitting outside shots, I think that Purdue has a chance to use these trends to its advantage and dominate from the inside out. I'm not saying that it will happen, but I think that this team has a chance to be among the best in the country.

I still think the PG is the most important position on the floor. Granted, you have to have competent big of some sort (otherwise, you end up like iu), but a PG is like the QB, he has the ball in his hands most of the time and is going to set the tempo for the offense.
I'm really interested to see how Hill handles this at the Big10 level.
 
I agree with lbode. Our expectations need to be realistic. We have a talented team, but we do not have real power players. Most of the talent on the team is of relatively the same level. They are good players, and some are good-to-great players. Don't start thinking they are world beaters and Final Four material. Yes, if they play together at a high level of team work, and Swany proves to be the star we think he might be, and they get lucky, very lucky...

Just to temper the thinking, let's just look in the BIG. Arguably, Maryland has as strong a front court as we do, and probably a better backcourt on paper. Trimble and the Duke transfer could make a tremendous pair. Both UM and IU can claim as talented a back court as we will field, and MSU might have the best balance of front and back court talent as any team in the BIG.

All that should not take away our enthusiasm for our team, but we need to recognise the challenges they face and be excited we are in position to meet and over come those challenges. The BIG is going to be an even fight every night. It won't be like sailing the Bismark into a fleet of wooden sailing ships and blasting away. There will rarely be a one-sided game in the BIG this year. Even the weakest of teams will get a victory or two. The difference between the bottom and the top of the BIG is very slight. I'm just glad we are sitting near the top at the start.

:cool:
Good grief. I don't see any problem with people being optimistic as the thread states. It doesn't say unrealistic, it says optimistic.
We have two great leaders who are also seniors in Ray and AJ. They are four year players that have lived through two seasons of underachievement for the team and were catylists to turning it around.
We have several players who can play multiple positions which gives us lots of options. We have talented depth at every position like never before in my lifetime. We play defense again. We are huge. We return all but one player from a pretty successful turnaround season.
If people call for Painters head if we don't win it all. Those are the people you will need to correct and tell how to feel. But for now we are all on board and I see no reason to preach to the fanbase about not being optimistic. Seems like a straw man that doesn't need to be built.

Geez...
 
What does Purdue have incoming? The best rebounding Freshman in the country. The best 3-point shooting Freshman in the country. Jacquil Taylor, a 5-star caliber talent (when healthy), who added 25 pounds of muscle during his redshirt.

It's pretty clear to see that with the entire core of a great team returning, plus the addition of several potentially great players, Purdue is destined to advance to their first Final Four in my lifetime.
 
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For years I have kept my expectations in check to avoid the dreaded heartbreaking soul crushing letdown, but this year I find myself wanting to drink the kool-aid like no time since the mid 90's, yet I am still hesitant. What say you fellow Boilermakers?
I think after the start to football, we could all use some optimism. The team was on the brink mid way through last year but really pulled together and showed their spirit. I'm pumped to see a team compete for a conference title.
 
I still think the PG is the most important position on the floor. Granted, you have to have competent big of some sort (otherwise, you end up like iu), but a PG is like the QB, he has the ball in his hands most of the time and is going to set the tempo for the offense.
I'm really interested to see how Hill handles this at the Big10 level.
The difference is that, because of the way that the game is structured, quarterback is always the most important position on the team in football, while in basketball, an elite talent can be the most important player playing any position. If you look at NBA champs since the Chicago Bulls started their run in the early 90's, they have been lead by superstars playing a variety of positions. Curry is a recent example of point guard, but other champs have been led by Jordan, Olaijuwan, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Dirk Nowitski, James, etc. I'd argue that if point guard is more important than other positions, it is only marginally so.
 
Ya... Wisconsin had neither of those... I would say they were pretty successful with their Final 4 and then National Runner Up


True, but they did end up a game short of their ultimate goal. Bronson Koenig put up pretty good overall numbers as their floor leader and without being the first or second scoring option. Also, having the national player of the year in Frank Kaminsky as their starting 5 and another NBA Draft pick in Sam Dekker as a starting 3/4 helped make up for that lack of a certified "star" or All-American type at the guard position. It also helped that all of their main rotation guards were at least very good in particular areas. Koenig, Traevon Jackson, Josh Gasser, and Zak Showalter all shot 81% or better on their free-throws and they all had +A/TO ratios and low TO numbers overall.

Basically, I will have reservations about whether or not this can be one of the best Purdue teams ever unless certain players or the team as a whole end up consistently playing at a higher level than I anticipated/am anticipating.
 
I still think the PG is the most important position on the floor. Granted, you have to have competent big of some sort (otherwise, you end up like iu), but a PG is like the QB, he has the ball in his hands most of the time and is going to set the tempo for the offense.
I'm really interested to see how Hill handles this at the Big10 level.

I think this is true for most offenses but much less so for motion offense. Purdue doesn't ask it's PG to be the primary ballhandler in the half court offense. It's why you rarely see a PG averaging more than 4 assists. A strong PG is a valuable asset but not as critical.

Frankly, it's why I love the Carsen Edwards pickup. We don't need him to play a traditional PG. We need him to bring the ball up, start the offense, and be one of five guys on the floor who can put the ball in the basket.

Shoot, I think that had Ronnie Johnson ignored outside influences and been surrounded by more talented and experienced players, I think he would have been very successful at Purdue. Carsen Edwards is stepping into a much better situation.
 
Let's put to bed the argument about prolific offensive point guards being a necessity to win a National Championship, shall we?

I'll present two sets of numbers:

22-60. This is the Tournament field goals made & field goals attempted numbers for Peyton Siva, the starting point guard for your 2012 National Champion Louisville Cardinals.

16-45. This is the Tournament field goals made & field goals attempted numbers for Koenig, the starting point guard for your 2014 National Runner-Up Wisconsin Badgers.

In 2 out of the last 3 years, you had a team advance to the National Championship with a starting point guard who neither made a high volume of field goals, nor hit a high % of his attempts. Ya, Wisconsin didn't win it all, but they were up 9 with 13 minutes to go so I'd say they had an outside shot at it.
 
True, but they did end up a game short of their ultimate goal. Bronson Koenig put up pretty good overall numbers as their floor leader and without being the first or second scoring option. Also, having the national player of the year in Frank Kaminsky as their starting 5 and another NBA Draft pick in Sam Dekker as a starting 3/4 helped make up for that lack of a certified "star" or All-American type at the guard position. It also helped that all of their main rotation guards were at least very good in particular areas. Koenig, Traevon Jackson, Josh Gasser, and Zak Showalter all shot 81% or better on their free-throws and they all had +A/TO ratios and low TO numbers overall.

Basically, I will have reservations about whether or not this can be one of the best Purdue teams ever unless certain players or the team as a whole end up consistently playing at a higher level than I anticipated/am anticipating.

Wisconsin was a very well disciplined team that didn't turn the ball over much. Great coaching. This combined with what @thenagemj02 mentioned is why they were so good the last few years, IMO.
 
Wisconsin was a very well disciplined team that didn't turn the ball over much. Great coaching. This combined with what @thenagemj02 mentioned is why they were so good the last few years, IMO.

In addition, fouls.

Wisconsin rarely ever shot themselves in the foot.

They:

-Didn't commit many fouls and still played good defense
-Didn't turn the ball over
-Didn't miss many free throw attempts

No matter what your team is comprised of, if you are good at those 3 things - you're going to have success. Add in some talented players and it will be a lot of success.
 
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Wisconsin was a very well disciplined team that didn't turn the ball over much. Great coaching. This combined with what @thenagemj02 mentioned is why they were so good the last few years, IMO.
I think Purdue became very disinclined on the offensive end in B1G play last season. They didn't jack up a lot of shots and worked for the high percentage shot.
You can say the same thing on defense as we didn't foul a lot for how in your face we played.
What I hope to see this year is guys like Edwards and Davis being more agrees dive at times on offense. They passed up a lot of opportunities last year only to have someone take a worse shot and miss. Especially Edwards. I think he can be a star. Davis could as well but he is mostly a driving player and Edwards is multi threat.
 
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I think it is more than fair to anticipate/expect this seasoned and veteran team to make the tourney and (hopefully) win the first two games. You can throw so much out of the window once you hit tournament play because the field is littered with upsets and teams that were much better on paper (or worse) breaking brackets...and that is what makes the NCAA tourney so much fun as a fan every season. There will be plenty of fanbases that will be very excited and others that will be genuinely pissed.

The key is we have what looks to be a team that with the right conditions and breaks could potentially make a deeper run than normal. The table is also being set for this program to actually do it again if we can keep bringing in this increased level of recruits.
 
I think that college basketball has been in a guard oriented era long enough now that defenses have adjusted. For example, defenses apply less half court pressure, zones and pack line defenses are more prevalent, and centers tend to look a lot like tall forwards. If Purdue can execute at a high level, which includes minimizing turnovers and hitting outside shots, I think that Purdue has a chance to use these trends to its advantage and dominate from the inside out. I'm not saying that it will happen, but I think that this team has a chance to be among the best in the country.
Nag , this is in my opinion that this is your best post ever. Very inciteful!
 
I'm cautiously optimistic but visions of ACLs and ball racks keep getting in my way.
 
For years I have kept my expectations in check to avoid the dreaded heartbreaking soul crushing letdown, but this year I find myself wanting to drink the kool-aid like no time since the mid 90's, yet I am still hesitant. What say you fellow Boilermakers?
drink_the_kool_adi_by_noahjbrooks-d3f4vr1.jpg
 
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Good grief. I don't see any problem with people being optimistic as the thread states. It doesn't say unrealistic, it says optimistic.
We have two great leaders who are also seniors in Ray and AJ. They are four year players that have lived through two seasons of underachievement for the team and were catylists to turning it around.
We have several players who can play multiple positions which gives us lots of options. We have talented depth at every position like never before in my lifetime. We play defense again. We are huge. We return all but one player from a pretty successful turnaround season.
If people call for Painters head if we don't win it all. Those are the people you will need to correct and tell how to feel. But for now we are all on board and I see no reason to preach to the fanbase about not being optimistic. Seems like a straw man that doesn't need to be built.

Geez...

Sorry but I agree with Mathboy. It's a tad unrealistic to start talking about final fours. Could we? Yes. Will we? Who knows. How many teams in the last 20 years made a final four with a 5th year PG transfer the likes of Hill? Not saying he can't be good for us, but if he was a player that had been in the system for years I might be singing a different tune. Optimistic for this team IMO is B10 champs and elite 8. Realistic is 2nd-4th finish and sweet 16. I HOPE I'm proven wrong, but it's not a small thing that we have a brand new PG, let alone the question marks that have to be answered. FT shooting, 3 point shooting, turnovers. Three HUGE areas that need to improve greatly.
 
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Sorry but I agree with Mathboy. It's a tad unrealistic to start talking about final fours. Could we? Yes. Will we? Who knows. How many teams in the last 20 years made a final four with a 5th year PG transfer the likes of Hill? Not saying he can't be good for us, but if he was a player that had been in the system for years I might be singing a different tune. Optimistic for this team IMO is B10 champs and elite 8. Realistic is 2nd-4th finish and sweet 16. I HOPE I'm proven wrong, but it's not a small thing that we have a brand new PG, let alone the question marks that have to be answered. FT shooting, 3 point shooting, turnovers. Three HUGE areas that need to improve greatly.
I've seen no one predict a guaranteed final four or B1G championship.
It's fine you agree we may not be great. But posters here are not the only ones who see the potential and are able to take the conference turn around along with an offseason and a top recruit as good signs. When you add in the experience and leadership we have lacked for several seasons and most importantly, talented players as in plural at every position, I don't have a problem with saying this could be our best shot at a final four since that fateful night in the barn.
You however built a strawman claiming folks here who are optimistic will be calling for Painters head if we don't win the league.
I have seen no reason to say that. The people who did that last fall haven't been around since January.
Chill out, be cautiously optimistic if you prefer. But the team is expecting big things and that along with what we have, makes me comfortable saying I think this could be the best team I have seen in my life item at Purdue.
If you are uncomfortable with saying that, fine. But you sound silly trying to tell grown men and women how to feel.
 
I've seen no one predict a guaranteed final four or B1G championship.
It's fine you agree we may not be great. But posters here are not the only ones who see the potential and are able to take the conference turn around along with an offseason and a top recruit as good signs. When you add in the experience and leadership we have lacked for several seasons and most importantly, talented players as in plural at every position, I don't have a problem with saying this could be our best shot at a final four since that fateful night in the barn.
You however built a strawman claiming folks here who are optimistic will be calling for Painters head if we don't win the league.
I did? When did I supposedly say that?

I have seen no reason to say that. The people who did that last fall haven't been around since January.
Chill out, be cautiously optimistic if you prefer. But the team is expecting big things and that along with what we have, makes me comfortable saying I think this could be the best team I have seen in my life item at Purdue.
If you are uncomfortable with saying that, fine. But you sound silly trying to tell grown men and women how to feel.

I think that this could be our best team in a really long time, but I don't think it's as good as the '10 team. I just don't. Doesn't mean they can't be, I just haven't seen that level of play yet.

What's better, to expect to be good and surprised that you're great, OR expect to be great and find out you're just good?
 
I did? When did I supposedly say that?



I think that this could be our best team in a really long time, but I don't think it's as good as the '10 team. I just don't. Doesn't mean they can't be, I just haven't seen that level of play yet.

What's better, to expect to be good and surprised that you're great, OR expect to be great and find out you're just good?
I apologize. You said you agreed with the guy who said that so I assumed.
I really don't see a difference in the two scenarios you posted. Both are surprises and hypothetical.
If your uncomfortable with the hype, fine. I see no need to tell others how to react. I haven't seen anyone go over the top and most are using hypotheticals such as yourself that are just as plausible.
i agree the '10 team was very good. It had things this team hasn't shown yet.
I do see things this team has that the '10 team was lacking as well so although they are different situations. I have no problem seeing similar or better results.
 
I apologize. You said you agreed with the guy who said that so I assumed.
I really don't see a difference in the two scenarios you posted. Both are surprises and hypothetical.
If your uncomfortable with the hype, fine. I see no need to tell others how to react. I haven't seen anyone go over the top and most are using hypotheticals such as yourself that are just as plausible.
i agree the '10 team was very good. It had things this team hasn't shown yet.
I do see things this team has that the '10 team was lacking as well so although they are different situations. I have no problem seeing similar or better results.
See and I think there is a huge difference in the two scenarios. One is a pleasant surprise, the other not so much.

I'm not trying to tell people what to think. I'm suggesting to them that they may want to temper their expectations a bit to prevent from being crushed if they aren't met. To each their own I guess. If they don't mind it then fine. I just get tired of those that bitch and wine when things don't turn out as expected.

Yes, I think this team will be quite good but we also have to remember that we did have a fairly soft conference schedule. This year's is much harder.
 
SInce my post was the concern of many on here, let me re-post it with some improvements to ensure I am not misunderstood:

I agree with lbode - about keeping our expectations realistic. Not about people getting expectations out of line and getting pissed at the coach. Our expectations need to be realistic. We have a talented team, but we do not have real power players. Most of the talent on the team is of relatively the same level - this is an important point. Our players are about level in capability, and will have roughly the same ceiling. They are good players, and some are good-to-great players. Don't start thinking they are world beaters and Final Four material. Yes, if they play together at a high level of team work, and Swany proves to be the star we think he might be, and they get lucky, very lucky...

Just to temper the thinking, let's just look in the BIG - important paragraph. A number of teams are looking like us, poised for great success this year. Arguably, Maryland has as strong a front court as we do, and probably a better backcourt on paper. Trimble and the Duke transfer could make a tremendous pair. Both UM and IU can claim as talented a back court as we will field, and MSU might have the best balance of front and back court talent as any team in the BIG. When predicting how this team will do, you must recognise the strength of our competition

All that should not take away our enthusiasm for our team, but we need to recognise the challenges they face and be excited we are in position to meet and over come those challenges. - Most important part of my perspective. The BIG is going to be an even fight every night. It won't be like sailing the Bismark into a fleet of wooden sailing ships and blasting away. There will rarely be a one-sided game in the BIG this year. Even the weakest of teams will get a victory or two. The difference between the bottom and the top of the BIG is very slight. I'm just glad we are sitting near the top at the start.
 
SInce my post was the concern of many on here, let me re-post it with some improvements to ensure I am not misunderstood:

I agree with lbode - about keeping our expectations realistic. Not about people getting expectations out of line and getting pissed at the coach. Our expectations need to be realistic. We have a talented team, but we do not have real power players. Most of the talent on the team is of relatively the same level - this is an important point. Our players are about level in capability, and will have roughly the same ceiling. They are good players, and some are good-to-great players. Don't start thinking they are world beaters and Final Four material. Yes, if they play together at a high level of team work, and Swany proves to be the star we think he might be, and they get lucky, very lucky...

Just to temper the thinking, let's just look in the BIG - important paragraph. A number of teams are looking like us, poised for great success this year. Arguably, Maryland has as strong a front court as we do, and probably a better backcourt on paper. Trimble and the Duke transfer could make a tremendous pair. Both UM and IU can claim as talented a back court as we will field, and MSU might have the best balance of front and back court talent as any team in the BIG. When predicting how this team will do, you must recognise the strength of our competition

All that should not take away our enthusiasm for our team, but we need to recognise the challenges they face and be excited we are in position to meet and over come those challenges. - Most important part of my perspective. The BIG is going to be an even fight every night. It won't be like sailing the Bismark into a fleet of wooden sailing ships and blasting away. There will rarely be a one-sided game in the BIG this year. Even the weakest of teams will get a victory or two. The difference between the bottom and the top of the BIG is very slight. I'm just glad we are sitting near the top at the start.
We are Purdue fans. We've been through disappointment before. That however doesn't mean that it's inevitable that we have a letdown this season.
Once again I haven't seen anything over the top yet. It does seem that some people are expecting tragedy and preparing themselves. 2010 hurt for sure. But that doesn't mean it will repeat itself.
Lighten up and enjoy. It's only September for goodness sake.
 
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