2018 B1G recruiting so far...

[Boiler Buck]

A look again @ Top 150 & B1G classes so far as I like to keep tabs on that….

MD. 26, 48
MSU. 54, 65, 92, 95
iu 47, 101, 121
NW. 56, 116
MICH. 58, 117
IOWA. 41
WISC. 57
MN. 60, 138
Purdue 94
OSU 108
Rutgers: 114
NE: ?
IL: ?
PSU: ?

Talent combined with great coaching wins. So look @ who is getting the talent and in a couple years the B1G rankings won't be too far from that....given an outlier for bad coaching/injuries and outliers for good coaching. And with great coaching - it is fun to see coaches over achieve with what they recruit. Painter has done that a bit with the 2014 class as a good example. (Although I will admit given the rankings with the Stephens bunch Painter has under achieved too.)

It looks like CMP will have to overachieve again with the 2018 bunch (whatever that becomes...unless he somehow is able to land more top 150s) because it is looking like 5th to 8th in the B1G for 2018....depending on who joins all the B1G teams from here on out.

 

[Nerdberts]

A look again @ Top 150 & B1G classes so far as I like to keep tabs on that….

MD. 26, 48
MSU. 54, 65, 92, 95
iu 47, 101, 121
NW. 56, 116
MICH. 58, 117
IOWA. 41
WISC. 57
MN. 60, 138
Purdue 94
OSU 108
Rutgers: 114
NE: ?
IL: ?
PSU: ?

Talent combined with great coaching wins. So look @ who is getting the talent and in a couple years the B1G rankings won't be too far from that....given an outlier for bad coaching/injuries and outliers for good coaching. And with great coaching - it is fun to see coaches over achieve with what they recruit. Painter has done that a bit with the 2014 class as a good example. (Although I will admit given the rankings with the Stephens bunch Painter has under achieved too.)

It looks like CMP will have to overachieve again with the 2018 bunch (whatever that becomes...unless he somehow is able to land more top 150s) because it is looking like 5th to 8th in the B1G for 2018....depending on who joins all the B1G teams from here on out.

Painter needs to land a top 20-30 recruit every 3-4 years and continue to recruit the way he has been. I doubt it happens, but we can always hope!

 

[Boiler Buck]

Painter needs to land a top 20-30 recruit every 3-4 years and continue to recruit the way he has been. I doubt it happens, but we can always hope!

Well so far he has had two of those top 30s.... Each with a B10 title. One has a B10 title and a B10 tourney title. So yea talent under good coaching of CMP fairs well in the B10.

 

[mathboy]

A look again @ Top 150 & B1G classes so far as I like to keep tabs on that….

MD. 26, 48
MSU. 54, 65, 92, 95
iu 47, 101, 121
NW. 56, 116
MICH. 58, 117
IOWA. 41
WISC. 57
MN. 60, 138
Purdue 94
OSU 108
Rutgers: 114
NE: ?
IL: ?
PSU: ?

Talent combined with great coaching wins. So look @ who is getting the talent and in a couple years the B1G rankings won't be too far from that....given an outlier for bad coaching/injuries and outliers for good coaching. And with great coaching - it is fun to see coaches over achieve with what they recruit. Painter has done that a bit with the 2014 class as a good example. (Although I will admit given the rankings with the Stephens bunch Painter has under achieved too.)

It looks like CMP will have to overachieve again with the 2018 bunch (whatever that becomes...unless he somehow is able to land more top 150s) because it is looking like 5th to 8th in the B1G for 2018....depending on who joins all the B1G teams from here on out.

I'd say Maryland and MSU are the leaders in recruiting for 2018. Regardless of what B-Man 1973 says, IU just is not making much headway, especially when you consider how little they have in house, left over from Crean. We have a strong 2017 class, so any good players we can get in 2018 is just a bonus.

 

[BBG]

I'd say Maryland and MSU are the leaders in recruiting for 2018. Regardless of what B-Man 1973 says, IU just is not making much headway, especially when you consider how little they have in house, left over from Crean. We have a strong 2017 class, so any good players we can get in 2018 is just a bonus.

Good points. When you take what you said in to consideration, I'd actually be a tad worried if I was an IU fan.

 

[Boiler Buck]

I'd say Maryland and MSU are the leaders in recruiting for 2018. Regardless of what B-Man 1973 says, IU just is not making much headway, especially when you consider how little they have in house, left over from Crean. We have a strong 2017 class, so any good players we can get in 2018 is just a bonus.

Yes, with all the bluster they currently are ranked 3Rd. Now land Langford.... That changes things.....but that is just conjecture......

Of course my concerns are all about Purdue and their class......which as of now is 9th...

 

[lbodel]

Yes, with all the bluster they currently are ranked 3Rd. Now land Langford.... That changes things.....but that is just conjecture......

Of course my concerns are all about Purdue and their class......which as of now is 9th...

Recruiting "rankings" in basketball are not terribly meaningful, I wouldn't get too hellbent on that. Not saying we have a great class - but it's very different than football, which is fairly balanced in number comparing to other teams.

And, more importantly in basketball, you need to get what you need.

That being said, let's be real here. Purdue has finished in the top three of the Big Ten the last three years - yet absolutely did not have the top 3 in talent in the Big Ten. You absolutely need talent - but to say we're going to finish 5-8 in the Big Ten cause that's where we are talent-wise is BS.

In basketball, all it takes is 1 player to be a bust or a boom for things to completely change. You also have to have a good system and coach (see IU). Yes, you need talent - and Purdue absolutely has it. To panic because we only have 1 four star recruit for 2018 right now is a bit much.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Good points. When you take what you said in to consideration, I'd actually be a tad worried if I was an IU fan.

Well, I'll say the same thing I said to my fellow IU fan who seemed ready to make space for another banner with the 3 commits Archie just got: we haven't played a minute under him yet.

In other words, I'm not worried and have no reason to be worried. But I also have no reason to be bursting with glee.

He's just gotten started at IU. We haven't played any games yet. Our roster this coming season is pretty suspect -- but should be better in '18-'19.

Ask this question in a few years and we'll all have better informed opinions. Until then, it's just speculation. Building a winning program is something that takes time -- it certainly doesn't happen in 3 months.

Coach K was nearly fired after his third or fourth season at Duke, for chrissakes.

 

[punaj]

I'd love more 2018 guys at the moment but TW is a nice start. Right now we have a great chance at back to back out right B1G titles and a run in the NCAAs given our senior experience and young talent. Let's enjoy this year and let Coach Painter worry about recruiting.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Good points. When you take what you said in to consideration, I'd actually be a tad worried if I was an IU fan.

I wouldn't be "worried" if I were still an IU fan. I would have become accustomed to the mundane results and would expect no more or less under Sean's little brother.

 

[nagemj02]

nm

 

[nagemj02]

"Recruiting "rankings" in basketball are not terribly meaningful, I wouldn't get too hellbent on that."


Over the past 26 years, with players coming out of HS (or prep school), Purdue has had four 5-star recruits (G. Robinson, L. Clay, M. Robinson, C. Swanigan). With three out of the four, the Boilers won a B1G Title and with a different set of three out of the four, reached, at the least, the Sweet Sixteen (or further) at least once with each player. The next three highest-rated recruits in that time frame were Cuonzo Martin, E'Twaun Moore, and JaJuan Johnson. They were all high 4-star recruits.

Saying that recruiting rankings aren't very meaningful (particularly when it comes to high 4 and 5-star recruits) is basically a way of lying to yourself. Yes, not every highly-ranked player plays up to their ranking but more often than not, they either do or they exceed expectation levels that the rankings set for them.

 

[BigRed3588]

Good points. When you take what you said in to consideration, I'd actually be a tad worried if I was an IU fan.

I don't expect IU to contend for the B1G title or anything, but I do think they'll surprise some people this year. Green, Jones, and Davis all showed potential to be really good players last year. Green was probably our best PG despite limited minutes and Miller has already commented about how Green is much better than he expected. Davis has dropped 20 lbs and improved his conditioning. Point being, a starting lineup of Green, Johnson, Jones, Hartman, and Davis isn't the worst I've seen. Depth is really where IU is going to struggle.

 

[Boiler Buck]

Recruiting "rankings" in basketball are not terribly meaningful, To panic because we only have 1 four star recruit for 2018 right now is a bit much.

No one who has watched CMP recruiting is in a panic. Heck I think most if not all of the 17 class was signed in the fall for example and they were the #2 class in the B1G.

But to say recruit rankings don't matter to a coach as good as CMP is naive and absent of history. Every time he gets a top 30 talent or above to mix in with his good 4 and 3 star recruits he wins the B1G. Without that he is 3rd -7th.

 

[lbodel]

No one who has watched CMP recruiting is in a panic. Heck I think most if not all of the 17 class was signed in the fall for example and they were the #2 class in the B1G.

But to say recruit rankings don't matter to a coach as good as CMP is naive and absent of history. Every time he gets a top 30 talent or above to mix in with his good 4 and 3 star recruits he wins the B1G. Without that he is 3rd -7th.

I'm saying CLASS rankings are not terrible meaningful, not individual rankings.

For example...

Purdue has a recruit ranked 97.

If X school had a recruit ranked 120 and then some unranked 3 star, their class would be likely be ranked ahead of Purdue's.

Not to mention sometimes your classes are 2 recruits, some are 5. How would you rank a class of 2 players vs. a class of 5 players? Would 1 five star and 1 3 star outweighs a class of 3 four stars and 2 3 stars? At the end of the day, the depth of talent could pay off more OR a five star player that turns into a top player in the country could totally outweigh that.

That's all I'm saying - it's hard to compare classes as a whole - and we haven't even gotten into getting the right players for your system and your actual position needs.

Look at PG. We knew that was an area of concern that we were lacking - we had luck with JO for a year, but then the next year we weren't as lucky. Our class last year of JUST Carsen Edwards secured a KEY position for us with a TALENTED player. That "class" won't show up as terribly meaningful on anyone's class recruiting rankings, but I think we'd all agree it was a very big get for the program's needs.

If you aren't landing talent at the positions you NEED talent, having the better "class" isn't necessarily better.

 

[mathboy]

"Recruiting "rankings" in basketball are not terribly meaningful, I wouldn't get too hellbent on that."


Over the past 26 years, Purdue had had three 5-star recruits (G. Robinson, M. Robinson, C. Swanigan). With two out of the three, the Boilers won a B1G Title and with all three, reached, at the least, the Sweet Sixteen (or further) at least once with each player. The next three highest-rated recruits in that time frame were Cuonzo Martin, E'Twaun Moore, and JaJuan Johnson. They were all high 4-star recruits.

Saying that recruiting rankings aren't very meaningful (particularly when it comes to high 4 and 5-star recruits) is basically a way of lying to yourself. Yes, not every highly-ranked player plays up to their ranking but more often than not, they either do or they exceed expectation levels that the rankings set for them.

Wait a minute. You didn't follow through on your analysis. You were saying that 5* recruits equate to BIG titles and sweet sixteens. Well, you forgot to mention that the 3 Amigos, 4-star guys, right? Those guys were part of the 3-peat, winning 2 BIG's all by themselves. Seems like they also won some Sweet-16's too.

 

[olafmetal]

And, more importantly in basketball, you need to get what you need.

That being said, let's be real here. Purdue has finished in the top three of the Big Ten the last three years - yet absolutely did not have the top 3 in talent in the Big Ten. You absolutely need talent - but to say we're going to finish 5-8 in the Big Ten cause that's where we are talent-wise is BS.

Those teams may not of been top three in recruiting rankings but they had a good number of players who performed at a top three level at their position or role.

 

[Boiler Buck]

Staff is looking everywhere.....I see Lutz is headed overseas to U18 championship to scout European players "forward Jaylen Hoard, a native of France who plays at Wesleyan Christian in High Point, North Carolina, and Lithuanian big man Lukas Kisunas(JC ONLINE)" among others.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

Staff is looking everywhere.....I see Lutz is headed overseas to U18 championship to scout European players "forward Jaylen Hoard, a native of France who plays at Wesleyan Christian in High Point, North Carolina, and Lithuanian big man Lukas Kisunas(JC ONLINE)" among others.

I think Lutz is also hard after THT and he is moving up the ranks quickly.

Looking forward to see him work his magic and sign a recruit.

I would assume it is like a salesperson making their first sale at a new company.

 

[anilrao08550]

A look again @ Top 150 & B1G classes so far as I like to keep tabs on that….

MD. 26, 48
MSU. 54, 65, 92, 95
iu 47, 101, 121
NW. 56, 116
MICH. 58, 117
IOWA. 41
WISC. 57
MN. 60, 138
Purdue 94
OSU 108
Rutgers: 114
NE: ?
IL: ?
PSU: ?

Talent combined with great coaching wins. So look @ who is getting the talent and in a couple years the B1G rankings won't be too far from that....given an outlier for bad coaching/injuries and outliers for good coaching. And with great coaching - it is fun to see coaches over achieve with what they recruit. Painter has done that a bit with the 2014 class as a good example. (Although I will admit given the rankings with the Stephens bunch Painter has under achieved too.)

It looks like CMP will have to overachieve again with the 2018 bunch (whatever that becomes...unless he somehow is able to land more top 150s) because it is looking like 5th to 8th in the B1G for 2018....depending on who joins all the B1G teams from here on out.

Can you show me what this looks like for 2014?

 

[ChoiceBeef]

Can you show me what this looks like for 2014?

Not looking all the teams up but for Purdue
Issac - 87
Vince - 145
Jacquil - 234
Dakota - 246
PJ - 363

 

[Boiler Buck]

Can you show me what this looks like for 2014?

No, but you can google it. I think Purdue had Haas in the 70s, VE and Mathias were both in the 120-150 range if I recall.

Lets see how the 14's do as senors this year without Biggie. They certainly will be over-performing if they win the B1G.

 

[Boiler Buck]

I think Lutz is also hard after THT and he is moving up the ranks quickly.

Looking forward to see him work his magic and sign a recruit.

I would assume it is like a salesperson making their first sale at a new company.

I thought THT was MSU bound?

 

[ChoiceBeef]

senors

 

[ChoiceBeef]

I thought THT was MSU bound?

I mean he got an offer from them - haven't seen that he accepted.

 

[Boiler Buck]

I would be very happy with THT!! - guy can finish around the rim with the best of them....seems to be magical flipping the ball to the rim in traffic a number of different ways with contact and finishing. Does alot of things well and has an outside shot which he can create. We will see...about Lutz and what he does here......as I thought we were out of the running on THT...

 

[HoosierfanJM]

I'd say Maryland and MSU are the leaders in recruiting for 2018. Regardless of what B-Man 1973 says, IU just is not making much headway, especially when you consider how little they have in house, left over from Crean. We have a strong 2017 class, so any good players we can get in 2018 is just a bonus.

I'm not sure if it's a positive (IU has more talent than you think) or a negative (if they don't do well, it's not for lack of talent), but IU has plenty left in-house for the coming year.

The 247 composite final rankings for the IU guys most likely to get rotation minutes?
DeRon Davis: 41
R Johnson: 49
Juwan Morgan: 110
Curtis Jones: 74
Newkirk: 124
Hartman: 214
Justin Smith: 75

So if IU sucks this year, it's won't be because they don't have talent, it'll be because they suck!

 

[ImRonBurgandy?]

"Recruiting "rankings" in basketball are not terribly meaningful, I wouldn't get too hellbent on that."


Over the past 26 years, Purdue had had three 5-star recruits (G. Robinson, M. Robinson, C. Swanigan). With two out of the three, the Boilers won a B1G Title and with all three, reached, at the least, the Sweet Sixteen (or further) at least once with each player. The next three highest-rated recruits in that time frame were Cuonzo Martin, E'Twaun Moore, and JaJuan Johnson. They were all high 4-star recruits.

Saying that recruiting rankings aren't very meaningful (particularly when it comes to high 4 and 5-star recruits) is basically a way of lying to yourself. Yes, not every highly-ranked player plays up to their ranking but more often than not, they either do or they exceed expectation levels that the rankings set for them.

Luther Clay was also a 5*, assuming so since he was a McD's AA. He was also on the '96 BT championship team

 

[StickPurdue]

I thought THT was MSU bound?

He got an offer from MSU and he liked a lot of Michigan state comments including one from Bingham. MSU has a huge class already and has some back log at the wing. I am shocked they would take a wing over a guard, which is their biggest need. Illinois is all in on THT as well as Xavier. Purdue is late in the game currently, and it would be a huge steal to come in late and pluck him away.

 

[mathboy]

I'm not sure if it's a positive (IU has more talent than you think) or a negative (if they don't do well, it's not for lack of talent), but IU has plenty left in-house for the coming year.

The 247 composite final rankings for the IU guys most likely to get rotation minutes?
DeRon Davis: 41
R Johnson: 49
Juwan Morgan: 110
Curtis Jones: 74
Newkirk: 124
Hartman: 214
Justin Smith: 75

So if sucks this year, it's won't be because they don't have talent, it'll be because they suck! [/IUQUOTE]

I like the game from Davis, Johnson, and Morgan. Good players. The others leave me cold, but you never know who might step up this coming year. Miller may find ways to motivate and utilize these other guys better than Crean - not very hard to do I suspect.

I still think you guys are thin at guard and center, and over populated at wing/small forward. I have no doubt Miller will find a way to field a team that competes and doesn't beat themselves. I don't know if they will win many conference games over the next two years as Miller rebuilds. At least the team should play smarter

 

[hoosierdog1]

I'm saying CLASS rankings are not terrible meaningful, not individual rankings.

For example...

Purdue has a recruit ranked 97.

If X school had a recruit ranked 120 and then some unranked 3 star, their class would be likely be ranked ahead of Purdue's.

Not to mention sometimes your classes are 2 recruits, some are 5. How would you rank a class of 2 players vs. a class of 5 players? Would 1 five star and 1 3 star outweighs a class of 3 four stars and 2 3 stars? At the end of the day, the depth of talent could pay off more OR a five star player that turns into a top player in the country could totally outweigh that.

That's all I'm saying - it's hard to compare classes as a whole - and we haven't even gotten into getting the right players for your system and your actual position needs.

Look at PG. We knew that was an area of concern that we were lacking - we had luck with JO for a year, but then the next year we weren't as lucky. Our class last year of JUST Carsen Edwards secured a KEY position for us with a TALENTED player. That "class" won't show up as terribly meaningful on anyone's class recruiting rankings, but I think we'd all agree it was a very big get for the program's needs.

If you aren't landing talent at the positions you NEED talent, having the better "class" isn't necessarily better.

I think PU 5 man class in 2017 has impacted PU ranking of second in the Big 10.

 

[nagemj02]

Not looking all the teams up but for Purdue
Issac - 87
Vince - 145
Jacquil - 234
Dakota - 246
PJ - 363

V. Edwards was rated in the top 100 by ESPN (I believe in the '90's range) and in the 110-125 range (IIRC, 121?) by Rivals, so I'm not sure how your composite for him is 145. Also, Mathias was ranked 149th (I believe?) by Rivals so again, I don't think his composite ranking would have ended up at 246. Taylor and Thompson's composite numbers seem more accurate. P.J. has definitely played above his ranking and maxed-out his ability thus far in his collegiate career.

 

[nagemj02]

Luther Clay was also a 5*, assuming so since he was a McD's AA. He was also on the '96 BT championship team

That's right. I forgot about him. You would think I would have remembered that, with the ramifications of him playing that one season for the Boilermakers.

 

[nagemj02]

Wait a minute. You didn't follow through on your analysis. You were saying that 5* recruits equate to BIG titles and sweet sixteens. Well, you forgot to mention that the 3 Amigos, 4-star guys, right? Those guys were part of the 3-peat, winning 2 BIG's all by themselves. Seems like they also won some Sweet-16's too.

Naming Cuonzo Martin, E'Twaun Moore, and JaJuan Johnson as three of the highest-rated 4 star recruits in my previous post was a way of correlating their rankings to the success Purdue had with them. My post was going from back in 1991 to the present, hence the lack of mention of any recruits/players prior to 1991.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

V. Edwards was rated in the top 100 by ESPN (I believe in the '90's range) and in the 110-125 range (IIRC, 121?) by Rivals, so I'm not sure how your composite for him is 145. Also, Mathias was ranked 149th (I believe?) by Rivals so again, I don't think his composite ranking would have ended up at 246. Taylor and Thompson's composite numbers seem more accurate. P.J. has definitely played above his ranking and maxed-out his ability thus far in his collegiate career.

247 rankings. I don't make them just reported

 

[nagemj02]

247 rankings. I don't make them just reported

gotcha

It's definitely tougher to rate HS/prep school players after they've named their top 40-50 guys for a particular class.