Am curious where you think we will be rated to finish in the Big Ten. I would think we would have to be a top 3 team in the league. Even if Hammons goes pro. Thoughts?
2015-16 Big Ten Predictions
- Thread starter big10best
- Start date
Sorry, this is just stupid. I really didn't see any Fire Painter threads during the season. I thought he should be fired all along, and especially now, but I know it is unlikely based on his buyout, which he negotiated very well.
Anyway, next year I think we will be predicted from 4-7 range depending on what happens.
My opinion is that if AJH returns and no one else comes, I think we finish 5-6 as we don't have a PG. JO was underrated this year by many. If we get a good solid transfer PG, I could see us in the 3-5 range. If AJH leaves and we don't get a PG transfer, I would imagine we will be in the 7-10 range.
Topic is premature until all early draft entrees and transfers have occurred.
If Hammons comes back, Purdue is likely just as good or better next year and will likely finish in the top 5. That is with the point guard issues. If by some miracle an instant impact player like Nic Moore or Swanigan comes, top 3 is more likely.
Depends alot on who else leaves early though.
Russel (OSU) is 99.9% gone, but if he comes back for some unknown reason, OSU would still be pretty good, if young.
If IU has all their players come back and happens to find a serviceable big man, they could break into the top 5.
Wisconsin loses Frank, but Dekker going / coming back could mean the difference between a top 2 and top 5 team. May depend on whether Stone commits.
Levert may or may not leave Michigan. Michigan was showing improvement at the end of the year (as seen in the dismantling of the Illini), even with their two best players out. If Levert comes back (current mock drafts show him middle first rounder), they have a solid team that challenges for the top 3. Every other player for Michigan comes back and they were very young this year (ala Purdue last year). They struggled this year, but I could see them taking a big step forward next year.
Illinois is a complete crap shoot. I have no idea whether they will be better next year or not. Frankly, they could lose half their scholarship players and that might be an improvement. Big question at center. Starks graduates, for better or worse.
MSU loses Dawsen and Trice, but Valentine returns. Hard to gauge them at this point, but I NEVER doubt Izzo's ability to get his players to develop and be a good team by March.
We'll reopen this thread in a couple of months.
If Hammons comes back, Purdue is likely just as good or better next year and will likely finish in the top 5. That is with the point guard issues. If by some miracle an instant impact player like Nic Moore or Swanigan comes, top 3 is more likely.
Depends alot on who else leaves early though.
Russel (OSU) is 99.9% gone, but if he comes back for some unknown reason, OSU would still be pretty good, if young.
If IU has all their players come back and happens to find a serviceable big man, they could break into the top 5.
Wisconsin loses Frank, but Dekker going / coming back could mean the difference between a top 2 and top 5 team. May depend on whether Stone commits.
Levert may or may not leave Michigan. Michigan was showing improvement at the end of the year (as seen in the dismantling of the Illini), even with their two best players out. If Levert comes back (current mock drafts show him middle first rounder), they have a solid team that challenges for the top 3. Every other player for Michigan comes back and they were very young this year (ala Purdue last year). They struggled this year, but I could see them taking a big step forward next year.
Illinois is a complete crap shoot. I have no idea whether they will be better next year or not. Frankly, they could lose half their scholarship players and that might be an improvement. Big question at center. Starks graduates, for better or worse.
MSU loses Dawsen and Trice, but Valentine returns. Hard to gauge them at this point, but I NEVER doubt Izzo's ability to get his players to develop and be a good team by March.
We'll reopen this thread in a couple of months.
I think if Hammons comes back we're a front runner in the Big Ten...I think if he doesn't come back, we're still a top 3 program. I believe in the resolve of this team and their staff and I think it is strong. Guys are gonna work their ass off this summer. I think Haas is way more of an X factor in this teams success then is being talked about. If he busts his butt and develops a little more toughness especially on the offensive end, he could be Painter's best big, maybe in his tenure.
2 things
1 hard work only does so much. Need help at the point
2 haas doesn't lack for toughness. Conditioning and fundamentals (bringing the ball down) appear to hurt him offensively. Needs to develop on defense
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Re: Did we finish tied for 3rd!
You think we will finish worse if Hammons comes back? Not with these players. Davis won't let that happen! Gee just look at the improvement from non-conference to conference. I still see a lot of room for improvement in this young team. I think your evaluation is not very well thought out. Your dislike for Painter seems to have dimmed your perspective.
You think we will finish worse if Hammons comes back? Not with these players. Davis won't let that happen! Gee just look at the improvement from non-conference to conference. I still see a lot of room for improvement in this young team. I think your evaluation is not very well thought out. Your dislike for Painter seems to have dimmed your perspective.
Re: Did we finish tied for 3rd!
Our frosh class was easily one of the best in Painters tenure. The baby Boilers were special and deserve their own place in history. But this class along with Taylor is obviously going to leave their own mark. How anyone can't see that after this season is beyond me??
With our two seniors next year and the these guys, we should continue to get better.
Some folks were talking about peaking too early this year. In my eyes the team really never peaked. We have that to look forward to still. The only bad thing about it is that Jon won't be here to experience it.
Our frosh class was easily one of the best in Painters tenure. The baby Boilers were special and deserve their own place in history. But this class along with Taylor is obviously going to leave their own mark. How anyone can't see that after this season is beyond me??
With our two seniors next year and the these guys, we should continue to get better.
Some folks were talking about peaking too early this year. In my eyes the team really never peaked. We have that to look forward to still. The only bad thing about it is that Jon won't be here to experience it.
Can't wait to see Haas after a year in the weight room. I also think Cline is going to be a Hummel type player and surprise a lot of people next year. Looking forward to Edwards taking a bigger role and Kendall finally being healthy. This teamis 1 or 2 in the B1G and top 20 with or without Hammons. Probably top 10 with him.
I don't see Dekker coming back. He's 90% gone in my opinion.
Purdue, with Hammons, is right at the top. I also think IU will be up there, along with Michigan.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Purdue, with Hammons, is right at the top. I also think IU will be up there, along with Michigan.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Not sure Haas needs to hit the weight room now. He's already a brute without even trying. Ask Dawson. It's been said his body fat is already between 5 and 10% and that's elite. He could however improve his handle. That should come with fundamentals this summer. Imo he got far too many shots blocked and needs to reverse that. Idk that he can improve his vertical at this point but some adjustment would help. If guys improve most between frosh and soph years he might be a good example of just that.
CPR has his own opinion and has defended it here. I am okay with that. He is no troll. He might be not in his right mind, but at least he has stood up for what he beleives. I appreciate that level of honesty and integrity on a free board like this. However, I still think he is off his rocker.
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Now to the subject... I think we are easily a top 3 team in the BIG next year. Wisky will not be as good as this year with Kaminski gone. Dekker may go in the first round too. MSU loses and adds a lot, with the sum unknown, but young. UM is young and will improve next year. Russel will not be in scarlet & gray next year, so OSU will need to reload. IU will still have Crean as coach. NEB and ILL too inconsistent to be a real threat in the race, but will pick off various teams. They will be competative, but not in the top 3. Iowa loses some significant players IIRC. Maybe a rebuilding year for them.
I predict Edwards and Mathias make the greatest improvements over the off season, with Edwards turning in a first or second team All-BIG performance next year. I also predict Stephens shakes off his sophmore slump and builds some muscle. He regains his form and becomes a deadly 3-pt shooter. I think it will be a toss up between him and Mathias as to who starts.
Now the shocker--> Unlike some of you, I think Scott will be back and just might win the PG position as a starter.
Smotherman will be the 6th man off the bench, and PJ will be the backup PG, along with Weatherford. Cline will be off the bench and providei instant offense with his shooting.
Davis will be the team leader in every way, except scoring.
Edwards/smotherman
DavisWeatherford
Mathias/Stephens/Cline
Haas/Taylor
Scott/PJ/Weatherford
I think Hammons will go pro.
Good post, but I think AJ comes back and Scott goes....maybe.Originally posted by mathboy:
CPR has his own opinion and has defended it here. I am okay with that. He is no troll. He might be not in his right mind, but at least he has stood up for what he beleives. I appreciate that level of honesty and integrity on a free board like this. However, I still think he is off his rocker.
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Now to the subject... I think we are easily a top 3 team in the BIG next year. Wisky will not be as good as this year with Kaminski gone. Dekker may go in the first round too. MSU loses and adds a lot, with the sum unknown, but young. UM is young and will improve next year. Russel will not be in scarlet & gray next year, so OSU will need to reload. IU will still have Crean as coach. NEB and ILL too inconsistent to be a real threat in the race, but will pick off various teams. They will be competative, but not in the top 3. Iowa loses some significant players IIRC. Maybe a rebuilding year for them.
I predict Edwards and Mathias make the greatest improvements over the off season, with Edwards turning in a first or second team All-BIG performance next year. I also predict Stephens shakes off his sophmore slump and builds some muscle. He regains his form and becomes a deadly 3-pt shooter. I think it will be a toss up between him and Mathias as to who starts.
Now the shocker--> Unlike some of you, I think Scott will be back and just might win the PG position as a starter.
Smotherman will be the 6th man off the bench, and PJ will be the backup PG, along with Weatherford. Cline will be off the bench and providei instant offense with his shooting.
Davis will be the team leader in every way, except scoring.
Edwards/smotherman
DavisWeatherford
Mathias/Stephens/Cline
Haas/Taylor
Scott/PJ/Weatherford
I think Hammons will go pro.
I'm very anxious to see what Haas becomes next year, especially if AJ does come back and they battle each other all summer. Can you imagine a front court of Haas, Taylor, and AJ, with Edwards and Davis in the back court?
Regardless of how much he was dogged at times last year, I think Stephens will be at least as good as he was early in conference play this season and could come close to leading the team in scoring next year. The reason I believe this? His finger. It was his off-hand and all but I think trying to adjust on the fly like that with a guy who probably hasn't changed a thing in his shot for years really hurt him.
What I would like to see more of? More set plays that have Mathias/Stephens/Cline coming off a curl a step or two inside the 3pt line. They seemed to be nearly automatic by coming in just a step closer. Let's hope we see that more.
What I would like to see more of? More set plays that have Mathias/Stephens/Cline coming off a curl a step or two inside the 3pt line. They seemed to be nearly automatic by coming in just a step closer. Let's hope we see that more.
(WARNING!: long post)
I believe Hammons will return for his senior season. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I would imagine he might have a feeling of unfinished business: the team reached a goal by making the NCAA Tournament, but the early exit should leave them wanting a better showing than that this coming season, along with a better overall regular season. Hammons, Edwards, Davis, and Haas are 4 players that can continue to be major difference-makers and I believe that Mathias will continue improving as well. Smotherman is a good role player that needs to be more poised with the ball, smarter defensively, and just more consistent overall (a theme we've heard/read ad nauseum with several players over the past few seasons). I think Jacquil Taylor could be a pseudo-surprise, as I thought he looked pretty good in the few early-season games he played. He seems to have a great work ethic, along with great length, a solid skillset, and good athletic ability. He needs to keep filling out, getting stronger in all areas, and maybe most importantly, be able to stay injury-free.
A good point guard addition will be "a must" in order for the Boilers to finish in the top half of the conference, IMO. They were able to get that with Jon Octeus this past season but now they need to be able to do it again. I just don't see P.J. Thompson or Grant Weatherford being able to either guard or hold their own against most of the starting point guards in the B1G and any good ones they face in non-conference play. Thompson's ceiling (IMO) is having games like he did on Senior Day vs. Illinois. The guard positions are probably the weak spots on the team, if you have to name a weak spot. Players like Mathias and Stephens show promise (and Ryan Cline might be the best shooter out of the three of them), but overall the returning core (along with the newcomers) needs to be better.
Bryson Scott is the only one that really has the speed and quickness to guard most high-quality point guards, but as we saw, he didn't play much at all during conference play or down the stretch. We know he is a very prideful person, so I need to see some verification from him or the coaching staff before I'm confident in stating that he is returning for the '15-'16 season.
If they are able to get a quality point guard, I see these as the tiers of who will finish where in the standings next season:
Top Tier:
-Purdue (see above)
-Illinois (Tracy Abrams returns from injury, along with a good nucleus, and a good recruiting class: they might lack a significant post presence with Nnanna Egwu graduating: Leron Black might have to pick up the slack in that area; I think they could surprise and are probably a better team without a player like Rayvonte Rice commanding the ball probably more than he should have; he didn't really make his teammates better; I think their chemistry will be better overall)
-Michigan State (solid core returning, a good recruiting class, plus Eron Harris, and a good HC)
-Ohio State (decent core returning, even if D'Angelo Russell leaves, a good recruiting class, and a good HC)
-Wisconsin (they have finished tied for 4th or better every single season, dating back to the 1999-2000 season, i.e. every single season that Bo Ryan has been the HC there; I suppose they could drop tiers if Sam Dekker or Nigel Hayes decide to leave early; Bronson Koenig will return, and they'll have players step up and be significant contributors, whether it's one of the low-minute players right now or newcomers; also, they're still in the running for 5-star big man Diamond Stone)
Middle Tier:
-Indiana (they should be up here if Yogi Ferrell and James Blackmon Jr. return, which they should if they're smart, and possibly a top tier team if Troy Williams also retuns, along with if they get Thomas Bryant, a borderline 4/5-star 2015 big man; however, the Creaner is still their HC, so he might be able find ways to mess up any chemistry the current players have with him, each other, or start to have with the newbies)
-Iowa (they will have four seniors returning who have played either two or all three seasons together; however, I don't know if any of these guys can step up and be a major standout for them: Jarrod Uthoff and Mike Gesell are the most likely of those four; it will definitely hurt them losing Aaron White and Gabe Olaseni, and I'm not sure what to expect from their newcomers: at first glance, it appears to be an average B1G recruiting class)
-Maryland (no more Dez Wells, Richaud Pack, Evan Smotrycz, or Jonathan Graham; I think they will drop off a little, especially if Romelo Trimble goes pro; they have a good core, but right now they only have 9 scholarship players on board for next season, as far as I can tell: 8 without Trimble)
-Michigan (if Levert retuns: if he doesn't or Derrick Walton struggles to stay healthy, I could see them struggling again and hedging towards the bottom tier, even with John Beilein being as good of a coach as he is)
-Nebraska (I see them bouncing back, especially if Terran Petteway returns; they return a solid core; Glynn Watson could end up winning the starting PG job as a frosh)
Bottom Tier:
-Minnesota (no more Andre Hollins, DeAndre Mathieu, Mo Walker or Elliott Eliason; Nate Mason, Carlos Morris, and Joey King makes for a strong trio of returnees, but I think they will need major contributions from a couple of their reserves returning or newcomers to keep up with the competition; I don't see King or Morris greatly improving, but that's just my take)
-Northwestern (they look like have a strong returning core and a decent recruiting class, but this is a case of "I need to see it to believe it"; they need to prove they can be a middle of the pack, NCAA Tournament-type team before I will consider them to have such potential)
-Penn State (no more D.J. Newbill, Ross Travis, or John Johnson; they have some solid returnees and possibly one or two significant contributors from their recruiting class, but they need a player or two to really improve and just blow up or else I see them finishing in last place below Rutgers)
-Rutgers (they lose their two most proven and experienced players in Mack and Jack; freshman Corey Sanders looks to be the heir apparent at PG and he could end being a pretty good one, but like Penn State, they are going to need two or three guys to really elevate their games if they want to make any progress in conference play next season)
This post was edited on 3/26 1:32 PM by nagemj02
I believe Hammons will return for his senior season. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I would imagine he might have a feeling of unfinished business: the team reached a goal by making the NCAA Tournament, but the early exit should leave them wanting a better showing than that this coming season, along with a better overall regular season. Hammons, Edwards, Davis, and Haas are 4 players that can continue to be major difference-makers and I believe that Mathias will continue improving as well. Smotherman is a good role player that needs to be more poised with the ball, smarter defensively, and just more consistent overall (a theme we've heard/read ad nauseum with several players over the past few seasons). I think Jacquil Taylor could be a pseudo-surprise, as I thought he looked pretty good in the few early-season games he played. He seems to have a great work ethic, along with great length, a solid skillset, and good athletic ability. He needs to keep filling out, getting stronger in all areas, and maybe most importantly, be able to stay injury-free.
A good point guard addition will be "a must" in order for the Boilers to finish in the top half of the conference, IMO. They were able to get that with Jon Octeus this past season but now they need to be able to do it again. I just don't see P.J. Thompson or Grant Weatherford being able to either guard or hold their own against most of the starting point guards in the B1G and any good ones they face in non-conference play. Thompson's ceiling (IMO) is having games like he did on Senior Day vs. Illinois. The guard positions are probably the weak spots on the team, if you have to name a weak spot. Players like Mathias and Stephens show promise (and Ryan Cline might be the best shooter out of the three of them), but overall the returning core (along with the newcomers) needs to be better.
Bryson Scott is the only one that really has the speed and quickness to guard most high-quality point guards, but as we saw, he didn't play much at all during conference play or down the stretch. We know he is a very prideful person, so I need to see some verification from him or the coaching staff before I'm confident in stating that he is returning for the '15-'16 season.
If they are able to get a quality point guard, I see these as the tiers of who will finish where in the standings next season:
Top Tier:
-Purdue (see above)
-Illinois (Tracy Abrams returns from injury, along with a good nucleus, and a good recruiting class: they might lack a significant post presence with Nnanna Egwu graduating: Leron Black might have to pick up the slack in that area; I think they could surprise and are probably a better team without a player like Rayvonte Rice commanding the ball probably more than he should have; he didn't really make his teammates better; I think their chemistry will be better overall)
-Michigan State (solid core returning, a good recruiting class, plus Eron Harris, and a good HC)
-Ohio State (decent core returning, even if D'Angelo Russell leaves, a good recruiting class, and a good HC)
-Wisconsin (they have finished tied for 4th or better every single season, dating back to the 1999-2000 season, i.e. every single season that Bo Ryan has been the HC there; I suppose they could drop tiers if Sam Dekker or Nigel Hayes decide to leave early; Bronson Koenig will return, and they'll have players step up and be significant contributors, whether it's one of the low-minute players right now or newcomers; also, they're still in the running for 5-star big man Diamond Stone)
Middle Tier:
-Indiana (they should be up here if Yogi Ferrell and James Blackmon Jr. return, which they should if they're smart, and possibly a top tier team if Troy Williams also retuns, along with if they get Thomas Bryant, a borderline 4/5-star 2015 big man; however, the Creaner is still their HC, so he might be able find ways to mess up any chemistry the current players have with him, each other, or start to have with the newbies)
-Iowa (they will have four seniors returning who have played either two or all three seasons together; however, I don't know if any of these guys can step up and be a major standout for them: Jarrod Uthoff and Mike Gesell are the most likely of those four; it will definitely hurt them losing Aaron White and Gabe Olaseni, and I'm not sure what to expect from their newcomers: at first glance, it appears to be an average B1G recruiting class)
-Maryland (no more Dez Wells, Richaud Pack, Evan Smotrycz, or Jonathan Graham; I think they will drop off a little, especially if Romelo Trimble goes pro; they have a good core, but right now they only have 9 scholarship players on board for next season, as far as I can tell: 8 without Trimble)
-Michigan (if Levert retuns: if he doesn't or Derrick Walton struggles to stay healthy, I could see them struggling again and hedging towards the bottom tier, even with John Beilein being as good of a coach as he is)
-Nebraska (I see them bouncing back, especially if Terran Petteway returns; they return a solid core; Glynn Watson could end up winning the starting PG job as a frosh)
Bottom Tier:
-Minnesota (no more Andre Hollins, DeAndre Mathieu, Mo Walker or Elliott Eliason; Nate Mason, Carlos Morris, and Joey King makes for a strong trio of returnees, but I think they will need major contributions from a couple of their reserves returning or newcomers to keep up with the competition; I don't see King or Morris greatly improving, but that's just my take)
-Northwestern (they look like have a strong returning core and a decent recruiting class, but this is a case of "I need to see it to believe it"; they need to prove they can be a middle of the pack, NCAA Tournament-type team before I will consider them to have such potential)
-Penn State (no more D.J. Newbill, Ross Travis, or John Johnson; they have some solid returnees and possibly one or two significant contributors from their recruiting class, but they need a player or two to really improve and just blow up or else I see them finishing in last place below Rutgers)
-Rutgers (they lose their two most proven and experienced players in Mack and Jack; freshman Corey Sanders looks to be the heir apparent at PG and he could end being a pretty good one, but like Penn State, they are going to need two or three guys to really elevate their games if they want to make any progress in conference play next season)
This post was edited on 3/26 1:32 PM by nagemj02
Stone is all but a Badger from reading the tea leaves and he's a game-changer. Projected to go 4th in next year's draft and has improved a lot to boot lately. When it's all said and done he could well prove to be the best frosh in cbb and the #1 pick. He compares favorably to DeMarcus Cousins with a similar build, athleticism, skill-set, but with a much better attitude.
I'd be shocked if Hayes went. He's a tweener for the pros and right now the 3rd option. I think projections are borderline 1st. He could be giving up a lot of guaranteed money and he's not the type of kid who seems to hate college.
Neither is Dekker. I think he's probably going to go because he's more likely of a 1st rounder and there can be a stigma about guys who play 4 years. But there is some incentive for him to return because he could potentially become the 1st option finally, would have adjusted to his physical growth, he could completely ensure getting that guaranteed money, and he has a role model in Kaminsky who stayed and who it has seemed to pay off for. I'd say it's more like 2:1 he leaves weighing all the factors. 90% is probably a hopeful competitor's take.
A big 3 of Stone, Hayes, and Koenig still makes UW among the leading contenders in conference.
A big 4 of Stone, Hayes, Koenig, and Dekker; as good as anyone in the nation. Tough to match that experience and talent combo.
And mind you, Wisconsin, always looking at their future out of the corner of their eye, is redshirting 2-3 players who'd probably be in the rotation now. Few elite teams would do things like that. So expect guys like Happ and Hill to be the Badgers who come from nowhere like typically occurs in the program. And watch out for another frosh in Khalil Iverson. Happ and Iverson have gotten a lot of hype late as recruiting steals. Happ has backed it up in practice, and b4 arriving at UW, Draft Express founder Jonathon Givony wrote: "Bo Ryan did it again. Ethan Happ is a big time steal for Wisconsin.
Athletic. Great frame. Plays hard. Defends. Can create off the bounce."
That's your Badgers' angle. I can't speak as much on other teams, but if Michigan and Maryland are mid tier, the conference is going to be even gnarlier than 2 years ago.
I'd be shocked if Hayes went. He's a tweener for the pros and right now the 3rd option. I think projections are borderline 1st. He could be giving up a lot of guaranteed money and he's not the type of kid who seems to hate college.
Neither is Dekker. I think he's probably going to go because he's more likely of a 1st rounder and there can be a stigma about guys who play 4 years. But there is some incentive for him to return because he could potentially become the 1st option finally, would have adjusted to his physical growth, he could completely ensure getting that guaranteed money, and he has a role model in Kaminsky who stayed and who it has seemed to pay off for. I'd say it's more like 2:1 he leaves weighing all the factors. 90% is probably a hopeful competitor's take.
A big 3 of Stone, Hayes, and Koenig still makes UW among the leading contenders in conference.
A big 4 of Stone, Hayes, Koenig, and Dekker; as good as anyone in the nation. Tough to match that experience and talent combo.
And mind you, Wisconsin, always looking at their future out of the corner of their eye, is redshirting 2-3 players who'd probably be in the rotation now. Few elite teams would do things like that. So expect guys like Happ and Hill to be the Badgers who come from nowhere like typically occurs in the program. And watch out for another frosh in Khalil Iverson. Happ and Iverson have gotten a lot of hype late as recruiting steals. Happ has backed it up in practice, and b4 arriving at UW, Draft Express founder Jonathon Givony wrote: "Bo Ryan did it again. Ethan Happ is a big time steal for Wisconsin.
Athletic. Great frame. Plays hard. Defends. Can create off the bounce."
That's your Badgers' angle. I can't speak as much on other teams, but if Michigan and Maryland are mid tier, the conference is going to be even gnarlier than 2 years ago.
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