We can afford to ship them to Hawaii?

[GMM]

And of course to house them and feed them while they're there. And to fly them or bus them all over the country and then house them and feed them there as well. But we can't send them back to their home country? You know, where their parents are?

Its called "Electing A New People". The ruling class in this country despises the American people so we're being replaced or crowded out. Candidate Obama promised to "fundamentally transform" this country. If you replace its people with new people that's certainly one way to do it.

Aloha

 

[sluggo69]

I wish this site was similar to FB in that a person could "like" the previous post.

 

[qazplm]

so

you think all those pre-teen kids know:

1. their parents full names
2. their home address
3. even their home city

Since the answer to all of that is that many don't, you are mighty fine then with just dumping them back, kids mind you, many of them in the single digits, because...

 

[db]

I have to say this.

If they all magically know that they can get across the border now and not be deported...

If they all use the same network of coyotes to make the passage...

...is it a stretch to think that they all know to say "I lived in fear of my life due to gang violence" so they don't get sent back?

I'm not saying the violence doesn't exist, but I bet a lot of non-victims are exlpoiting it, creating a false climate of "how can we possibly deport these people back to such horrible conditions?" that seemingly applies to all.

This influx should not be happening. Our immigration system needs to work the legal way, not the illegal way. If the House & Senate had their respective sh!t together, we'd have multiple bills already available to close the crazy loophole we have right now.

Instead the House is busy failing to agree on what to do about the immigration issue prior to adjourning for August. But they managed to pass a bill authorizing a lawsuit (a what? seriously?) against the President...for doing his job.

Kudos to the five brave Republicans who were not sheep on that one.

 

[beardownboiler]

Originally posted by db:
I have to say this.

If they all magically know that they can get across the border now and not be deported...

If they all use the same network of coyotes to make the passage...

...is it a stretch to think that they all know to say "I lived in fear of my life due to gang violence" so they don't get sent back?

I'm not saying the violence doesn't exist, but I bet a lot of non-victims are exlpoiting it, creating a false climate of "how can we possibly deport these people back to such horrible conditions?" that seemingly applies to all.

This influx should not be happening. Our immigration system needs to work the legal way, not the illegal way. If the House & Senate had their respective sh!t together, we'd have multiple bills already available to close the crazy loophole we have right now.

Instead the House is busy failing to agree on what to do about the immigration issue prior to adjourning for August. But they managed to pass a bill authorizing a lawsuit (a what? seriously?) against the President...for doing his job.

Kudos to the five brave Republicans who were not sheep on that one.

Sue the president! That's what is important!!!!

 

[qazplm]

well sure

every thing that goes wrong should not be happening. But there's a crisis down there, and people are going to run from that crisis and seek out a better life no matter how together and with it Congress is.

When people are sending small children on long journeys, they ain't doing it to scam, they are doing it out of desperation.

The desperation part has to be solved. This has nothing to do about loopholes or laws, it's about desperate parents trying to give their kids some sort of life. I seriously doubt this is due to a "false climate."

Adults might do that, they don't send their children thousands of miles to do that.

 

[GMM]

There's been violence in Central America for decades. What's different now? The messages they get from this administration.

Passing new immigration laws is meaningless if you're not going to enforce the current ones. Its the President's job to enforce them and that means securing the border and deporting illegals. Period.

 

[GMM]

Re: so

Because they don't belong here. I am mighty fine dumping them in your home, if you'd prefer that, Mr. Compassion.

In the meantime we shouldn't be held hostage to their ignorance or their parents' exploitation of the "compassion" of Useful Idiots here in America.

 

[qazplm]

they haven't swamped us with kids until recently

doesn't that suggest to you maybe something is going on that has folks desperate enough to send their kids 100s or 1000s of miles?

Or do you think genetically they just don't care about their kids like white folk do?

 

[GMM]

Yes, what changed?

Oh yeah, amnesty. President Obama has sent a clear signal to anybody in Central America that if you want to come here illegally you'll get to stay. Especially if you're a "child". You know, like 15-17 year old boys who will totally not end up in gangs.

You can fall for the "desperation" routine if you want to. The rest of us aren't.

Or do you think genetically they just don't care about their kids like white folk do?

Apparently not.

 

[qazplm]

"amnesty"

So you think, they are sending up their kids 100s to 1000s of miles, not because of desperation but because of "amnesty."

riiiight.

 

[GMM]

Yes, because "amnesty" = "free stuff"

Thanks to the welfare state, of course.

 

[qazplm]

Yes

They slapped their 7 year old kids on a long journey through a lot of bad places because: welfare.

 

[qazplm]

yes

compassion, such a horrible thing to have as a nation, no way that could possibly benefit us.

I'm so sorry you feel like a "hostage" to compassion...would you like a hotline to call?

 

[GMM]

Let us know......

.....when you'll be inviting these "children" to stay at your place. Think of how much that compassion could benefit you. Is there a hotline where I can give them your name and address?

In the meantime we shouldn't be importing the Third World. It will never benefit us.

 

[qazplm]

yes

what we do as a nation is directly comparable to what an individual does.

gotta love the continued use of this incredibly stupid attempt at argument by folks unable to access any of several at least moderately more intelligent arguments.

Yes, I'm sure you are right about the immigrants never benefiting us part...unless they are white of course.

 

[GMM]

Re: yes

If you say its good for us as a nation then why don't you want to do it for yourself? Funny how leftists tell us their ideas are good for "us" but rarely for them as individuals. No, we as a society must be coerced into "benefits".

Yes, I'm sure you are right about the immigrants never benefiting us part...unless they are white of course.

Well, if you'd like to compare the actual results of immigrants based on race then go ahead. You know, things like welfare dependency, crime rates, academic performance, job creation, assimilation, terrorism, etc. Feel free to do so.

 

[db]

Maybe you are expecting the President to head down to Arizona personally and glare at the people trying to climb the fence so that they'll change their mind?

Or maybe you think the President wants this influx? Are you stuck in a tight little extremist feedback loop that says this is all about future votes?

So the President asked for $3.7 billion, to secure the border and to deport the illegals, all needed because of a messed up law, and Congress (which passed that law, dontcha know) says as they always do, f**k you Obama. The House says you can have $0.7 billion except no wait we have too many wingnuts so let's make that $0.00, the Senate says $2.7 billion, and both are more interested in politics and vacations than in getting a deal done. Even if that means the influx continues unabated, resulting in all those future lefty votes that the right supposedly fears. What is wrong with this picture?

I agree there's been violence in Central America for decades. And the message did change to spark this flood. But the message isn't coming from "this administration;" it's coming from a recent misguided law that this President did not sign.

The message the right (and others) need to be getting out, as implied in my post, and as you in a moment of lucidity pointed out directly, is that there has been violence in Central America for decades. Why was it OK for all those Guatemalans to live there in 1994 and 2004 but it's not OK to send them back in 2014?

 

[GMM]

Maybe you are expecting the President to head down to Arizona personally and glare at the people trying to climb the fence so that they'll change their mind?

That'd be better than what he's doing!

Are you saying that its impossible to secure our border? BTW, do you lock your doors?

Or maybe you think the President wants this influx?

Yes, he and the rest of the left want this for every Western society.

Are you stuck in a tight little extremist feedback loop that says this is all about future votes?

Could you be more naive? Don't think so.

So the President asked for $3.7 billion, to secure the border and to deport the illegals, all needed because of a messed up law, and Congress (which passed that law, dontcha know) says as they always do, f**k you Obama.

The law, whichever one you're talking about is not messed up. The law says to secure the border. Funding for that was passed years ago. The law says to deport illegals. Not only will he not do that but he lied about deportation numbers previously.

The House says you can have $0.7 billion except no wait we have too many wingnuts so let's make that $0.00, the Senate says $2.7 billion, and both are more interested in politics and vacations than in getting a deal done.

Where are we getting the money right now to fly them all over the country, house them, feed them, and give them free health care?

Why was it OK for all those Guatemalans to live there in 1994 and 2004 but it's not OK to send them back in 2014?

Because its THEIR country. Who do you think caused the "violence"? Martians? No, it was caused by Guatemalans. Their failure to create a safe society is not our responsibility.

Even if that means the influx continues unabated, resulting in all those future lefty votes that the right supposedly fears. What is wrong with this picture?

Because, along with most likely re-creating the crappy conditions they created in Guatemala (and other Third World countries), they will help to further bankrupt this country. They will commit crimes at a higher rate than Americans. They will be more dependent on welfare than Americans. They will lower wages for Americans. They will raise health care and social services costs for Americans. They purpose of immigration policy is to benefit Americans. Not immigrants, not the economy, not businesses, but Americans.

Would any business hire ANYBODY who wanted to work there? Would any university allow ANYBODY to enroll? Would you let ANYBODY break into your home and allow them to stay for as long as they want? No, no, and no. Sane, self-respecting countries secure their border. They don't import large numbers of poor, non-native language speaking, uneducated, unskilled, likely-to-end-up-on-welfare type people into their country. Only suicidal countries do that.

Which is why the left is for it.




This post was edited on 7/31 8:48 PM by GMM

 

[lbodel]

If the President enforces laws, apparently he gets sued.

I'd love to know when you think our border laws with regards to Mexico, have ever been enforced to the max. There's been millions of illegal immigrants from Latin America and Mexico for decades.

Obama requested $3.7 billion to immediately ramp up border efforts/processing. Republicans refused it and also wanted to add a stipulation which does not give unaccompanied minors a hearing. You know when that became a law? In 2008 before Obama was in office.

Now we have a delay on a House bill because there is such a deep divide amongst the Republicans.

And when the Senate tried to vote on a bill? Republicans objected because the funding would not be paid for.

You can't cry for help, then refuse to vote on the help you're crying for.

 

[db]

Slow down there bucky...

You are responding in a combative way even on the points where we agree. Which is hilarious.

I'll spell it out, because you seem to need that. There is likely no reason why living in their own country has suddenly become so much more untenable for this huge torrent of illegal immigrants masquerading as refugees that we need to let them stay here.

At least you rarely fail to remind us why so many have given up trying to have a rational discussion with you. You are so frothing with manufactured rage at the "opposition," based on storylines and talking points spoon-fed to you by your favorite wingnut media, that you cannot see straight nor produce a stream of independent thought.

 

[qazplm]

I'm perplexed by this

clearly something has changed, and it's not simply "a law." First, the law in question passed in 08, and the increase didn't happen until 2011. I doubt it took 3 years just for folks to learn of this law down South. (And it's BEFORE the 2012 Obama "deferred action on childhood arrivals" policy).

A quick internet search shows a plethora of accounts of rising gang-violence, gang-controlled towns, forcible gang recruitment (basically think about our worst gang problems in our worst parts of our worst inner city, then multiply it and spread it across an entire nation) and poverty all combined with "coyotes" and smugglers who lie to folks desperate for something safe and better for their kids to get the money to smuggle kids up and across the border to the US.

You wanna blame something? Blame the worldwide financial collapse of 08. If it hit us hard, imagine how hard it hit Central America. Of course, let's ignore all the civil wars down there we funded, the governments we collapsed, etc.

Then you have the issue that our immigration system is underfunded, and overwhelmed, and again who does funding? (Rhymes with Congress).

Then let's also not ignore our "we hate communists so much" we let Cubans stay if they get a foot on dry land rule. So, 64 year old Cuban not really fleeing violence or anything else other than communism makes it to Florida, he stays...8-year-old flees poverty and violence, oh gotta go.

 

[Bill4411]

Re: I'm perplexed by this

Perhaps if we would stop buying so many illegal drugs from Central America they wouldn't have so much crime? I don't think our war on drugs has achieved very good results for anyone.

 

[qazplm]

fair point

it's a complicated situation down there, not easily solved with a myriad number of diverse and interconnecting reasons.

 

[qazplm]

yes

I know that I'm planning on conducting my own invasions and perhaps some foreign policy with other nations, after all, if it's good for the nation, I should want to do it myself.

lol on the second part, kudos for not hiding it anymore.

 

[GMM]

Re: Slow down there bucky...

Yes, I'm the one being "combative". Can't you just enjoy the fact that we and others are debating, arguing, etc. and not get all upset about it?

BTW, if you want to call others "combative" and "frothing" and "wingnut" or say others are "in a tight little extremist feedback loop" or accuse the GOP of sayhing "f*ck you" to President Obama or accuse others of "being incapable of having a rational discussion" then you can. I'm not going to complain. But I will recognize that you do the same things so your indictments don't exactly mean much.

There is likely no reason why living in their own country has suddenly become so much more untenable for this huge torrent of illegal immigrants masquerading as refugees that we need to let them stay here.

Yes, but that's what we're supposed to believe. Did somebody say something about storylines and talking points? Anyway, why do you think some people in America are feeding you this nonsense? Do you really think it has nothing to do with creating future Democrat voters?



This post was edited on 8/1 12:12 PM by GMM

 

[GMM]

How's that?

What exactly am I hiding? You're the one who brought up racial comparisons between immigrants. So, go ahead and show us how, on the whole, immigrants from poor countries benefit us. Better than those dastardly white immigrants of course. Further, delineate between immigrants with regards to country of origin, race, ethnicity, religion, income levels, language, etc. and show us how they're all the same. That's what you believe, right? That there's no observable, measurable differences between any immigrant groups at all, right?

 

[qazplm]

yeah

between Gr8, I, and nearly everyone else on here already doing it once already, I'm not going to go into round 2 in the head-butting a wall that is explaining how race works to GMM.

 

[GMM]

Re: yeah

Figures you wouldn't have an answer and then slink away trying to protect your failure with condescension.

 

[qazplm]

oh I have an answer

you've been given the answer, repeatedly, by many people, not my fault you don't have the brain folds to figure it out.

 

[db]

Re: Slow down there bucky...

Some of those are fair points. I am trying to marginalize your point of view because I think it is pretty far out on the margin. It's easy to do in your case. But I always try to refrain from personal insults, and didn't do such a good job in this case. You are way more clever than I am at hiding the insults in snide language.

Of course, I'm not upset...I do enjoy the back and forth. Especially when there is some movement on the ideas.

The congressional GOP does say "f**k you" to Obama on a consistent basis. It is nauseating and wrong. It is anti-American and damages the country. I won't apologize for calling that what it is. Even if it is in various ways partly Obama's fault. It should not be happening.

As to the bizarre argument about letting in a torrent of immigrants to tip the electoral scale -- no doubt there are a few on the left who think that way, but I think this is 98% a figment of the right's imagination, which is why you get such colorful language from me about how could any thinking person possibly believe that, and how distorted your sources must be for *you* to be calling *me* "naive" on this point.

The reality is that if demographics and not ideas are really the key to the future of our current political parties, then the GOP in its current form is already doomed. No more new illegal immigrants would be needed in order to tip the scales; no amnesty for current illegal immigrants would be needed.

 

[GMM]

Re: Slow down there bucky...

The reality is that if demographics and not ideas are really the key to
the future of our current political parties......

Democrats know that the Third World votes Democrat. That's why they're for massive legal immigration from poor countries and against enforcing our immigration laws.

.......then the GOP in its current
form is already doomed.

Brazil, here we come! California, here we come! Mexico, here we come! (Detroit doesn't have to go to any those places. Its already there. Or worse.)

You think the mess you see in those places is somehow going to get fixed with leftist policies in place? Or that those people are going to somehow turn into the exact opposite the people in the countries they came from?

You can gloat all you want about the demise of the GOP but if you think the same forces won't be the demise of America you're a fool.