Recruiting

[ChoiceBeef]

With all the ballyhoo on recruiting and listening to Painter talk to Dakich about being tired of getting 2nd and 3rd place ribbons this article had me asking some more questions.

https://purdue.rivals.com/news/two-new-pieces-added-to-bolster-purdue-football-recruiting

Seriously, I think Painter needs to take a more serious look at his staff at the end of every year. I am sure Brantley and Gary are great guys but if they aren't helping to close elite players then they become dead weight. Beilein cut one of his assistants because he thought they needed to be more adaptable on defense. Why not Painter?

Perhaps more lunches/dinners with Brohm and something will rub off.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

With all the ballyhoo on recruiting and listening to Painter talk to Dakich about being tired of getting 2nd and 3rd place ribbons this article had me asking some more questions.

https://purdue.rivals.com/news/two-new-pieces-added-to-bolster-purdue-football-recruiting

Seriously, I think Painter needs to take a more serious look at his staff at the end of every year. I am sure Brantley and Gary are great guys but if they aren't helping to close elite players then they become dead weight. Beilein cut one of his assistants because he thought they needed to be more adaptable on defense. Why not Painter?

Perhaps more lunches/dinners with Brohm and something will rub off.

I think that is why Lutz was brought on staff...he is a known high ability recruiter. He was in year one and those relationships he was trying to build for Purdue had been established at other places for other players. Steady progress forward is still progress and eventually CMP will start getting more of his first choice guys because getting to the NCAA's and advancing to the Sweet 16 multiple years in a row shows growth...If CMP can take this group to the S16 again next season, you'll likely start to see the dominoes fall more and more in recruiting.

 

[pharoutengineer]

With all the ballyhoo on recruiting and listening to Painter talk to Dakich about being tired of getting 2nd and 3rd place ribbons this article had me asking some more questions.

I saw someone mention that he said this on the Dakich show and was encouraged because I thought it meant he was going to increase his recruiting effort or change his tactics to start coming out on top instead of 2nd or 3rd. Unfortunately when I listened to the podcast I realized that in the context of his full comments it sounded more like he was just going to start giving up sooner on the more high end guys he thinks he doesn't have a shot at so he doesn't spend time on them only to finish 2nd or 3rd. Ugh. I mean I get it, but that's not the context I hoped that comment came from.

Sure would be nice if Lutz could prove his worth soon. I don't know much about the behind the scenes stuff, but I haven't seen anything so far that would indicate he has moved the needle on recruiting.

 

[Roeder]

I saw someone mention that he said this on the Dakich show and was encouraged because I thought it meant he was going to increase his recruiting effort or change his tactics to start coming out on top instead of 2nd or 3rd. Unfortunately when I listened to the podcast I realized that in the context of his full comments it sounded more like he was just going to start giving up sooner on the more high end guys he thinks he doesn't have a shot at so he doesn't spend time on them only to finish 2nd or 3rd. Ugh. I mean I get it, but that's not the context I hoped that comment came from.

Sure would be nice if Lutz could prove his worth soon. I don't know much about the behind the scenes stuff, but I haven't seen anything so far that would indicate he has moved the needle on recruiting.

He also was specifically talking about Langford and why he quit recruiting him saying he is from Southern Indiana with IU ( and UK and UL at time) recruiting him hard and decided to focus time on other guys. I totally understand that and glad he put full court press on Hunter who will likely have greater impact in 3-4 years than Langfords one year ( unless he is like Carmello and puts team on back to a NCAA title as one and done, which is unlikely).

He DID say that if those 5 stars are regionally closer in Indy (TJD) or Ft Wayne ( Brooks) he will continue to recruit them like we have seen this Spring.

 

[BoilerIron]

I think that is why Lutz was brought on staff...he is a known high ability recruiter. He was in year one and those relationships he was trying to build for Purdue had been established at other places for other players. Steady progress forward is still progress and eventually CMP will start getting more of his first choice guys because getting to the NCAA's and advancing to the Sweet 16 multiple years in a row shows growth...If CMP can take this group to the S16 again next season, you'll likely start to see the dominoes fall more and more in recruiting.

Which recruits did Lutz bring in? Did he ever bring in a top 50 guy at Creighton? If the rumors are true, and we had a chance at Schilling when we hired Lutz, then we made a massive mistake.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

Which recruits did Lutz bring in? Did he ever bring in a top 50 guy at Creighton? If the rumors are true, and we had a chance at Schilling when we hired Lutz, then we made a massive mistake.

Justin Patton was around 70 via 247.

Not sure the story about not pursuing Schilling.

 

[Boilermb]

He also was specifically talking about Langford and why he quit recruiting him saying he is from Southern Indiana with IU ( and UK and UL at time) recruiting him hard and decided to focus time on other guys. I totally understand that and glad he put full court press on Hunter who will likely have greater impact in 3-4 years than Langfords one year ( unless he is like Carmello and puts team on back to a NCAA title as one and done, which is unlikely).

He DID say that if those 5 stars are regionally closer in Indy (TJD) or Ft Wayne ( Brooks) he will continue to recruit them like we have seen this Spring.

He used Greg Oden and Mike Conley as an example. He said he knew he wasn't going to get them, so he put his attention to recruiting Luke Harangody, Robbie Hummel, E'Twaun Moore and JaJuan Johnson. Said you have to be smart.

 

[icewind7]

Whatever Oregon did... and whoever Oregon hired... just get those sales guy as long as it's ethical of course.

 

[BoilerBloodline]

With all the ballyhoo on recruiting and listening to Painter talk to Dakich about being tired of getting 2nd and 3rd place ribbons this article had me asking some more questions.

https://purdue.rivals.com/news/two-new-pieces-added-to-bolster-purdue-football-recruiting

Seriously, I think Painter needs to take a more serious look at his staff at the end of every year. I am sure Brantley and Gary are great guys but if they aren't helping to close elite players then they become dead weight. Beilein cut one of his assistants because he thought they needed to be more adaptable on defense. Why not Painter?

Perhaps more lunches/dinners with Brohm and something will rub off.

I understand what you’re saying. But I think Painter should look to tweak a few things in the mirror prior to placing blame on his 2nd & 3rd place ribbons. If Painter himself cannot close these kids, how can he expect an assistant to?

 

[SIBoiler2]

Whatever Oregon did... and whoever Oregon hired... just get those sales guy as long as it's ethical of course.

Just need to get Phil Knight to move his HQ to W Lafayette.

 

[Boilermb]

I understand what you’re saying. But I think Painter should look to tweak a few things in the mirror prior to placing blame on his 2nd & 3rd place ribbons. If Painter himself cannot close these kids, how can he expect an assistant to?

Painter made a comment that 'we all know who we can date and sometimes we don't want to look in the mirror and come to grips with it'.

 

[FirstDownB]

I have mixed feelings on Painter's recruiting, but IMO generally speaking if you can't look at a staff and identify the ace recruiter then the staff is missing something. I think this is exactly what Brohm identified and filled a position with a guy who is relatable to young people.

 

[Roeder]

Just need to get Phil Knight to move his HQ to W Lafayette.

Exactly, the marketing and branding Phil Knight has put into Oregon athletics is massive reason for their Football and Basketball success. They have had great coaches too, but the Nike money pumping up facilities and branding halfway recruits itself.

 

[Roeder]

He used Greg Oden and Mike Conley as an example. He said he knew he wasn't going to get them, so he put his attention to recruiting Luke Harangody, Robbie Hummel, E'Twaun Moore and JaJuan Johnson. Said you have to be smart.

That is true, forgot about that part.

 

[KentuckyBoiler]

With all the ballyhoo on recruiting and listening to Painter talk to Dakich about being tired of getting 2nd and 3rd place ribbons this article had me asking some more questions.

https://purdue.rivals.com/news/two-new-pieces-added-to-bolster-purdue-football-recruiting

Seriously, I think Painter needs to take a more serious look at his staff at the end of every year. I am sure Brantley and Gary are great guys but if they aren't helping to close elite players then they become dead weight. Beilein cut one of his assistants because he thought they needed to be more adaptable on defense. Why not Painter?

Perhaps more lunches/dinners with Brohm and something will rub off.

I think the fans are tired too of so many 2nd and 3rd place finishes that winning a few of those recruiting battles might have changed the program significantly.

However, some of those 2nd and 3rd place finishes were probably caused by some of the NCAA and FBI investigations items over the last year. It is hard to get some of those types of recruits when we are putting a college degree on the table and others are putting cars, money, girls, etc. on the table.

 

[BoilerBiker]

Painter made a comment that 'we all know who we can date and sometimes we don't want to look in the mirror and come to grips with it'.

However, some of those 2nd and 3rd place finishes were probably caused by some of the NCAA and FBI investigations items over the last year. It is hard to get some of those types of recruits when we are putting a college degree on the table and others are putting cars, money, girls, etc. on the table.

was going to post the same.... heard him first make the girl/date analogy years ago (sometime after t.zeller's recruitment iirc).

which seems like unfortunate timing to revert back to...
considering the level of cheating would likely be much less in the current recruiting climate. and also now having significantly more support from the AD, president, BOT.

 

[Wolegib]

on 24/7 for football, there is a recruiter rating where it reveals the recruits each assistant and coach have recruited. it basically gives credit where it is due for assistant coaches etc. It would be nice if there was a similar rating for basketball assistant coaches.

i remember when Lutz was hired, he supposedly had inroads with players at La Lum, and Epperson chose Creighton over Purdue. I really haven't seen the Lutz' magic convincing La Lum players to come to Purdue.

 

[FirstDownB]

on 24/7 for football, there is a recruiter rating where it reveals the recruits each assistant and coach have recruited. it basically gives credit where it is due for assistant coaches etc. It would be nice if there was a similar rating for basketball assistant coaches.

i remember when Lutz was hired, he supposedly had inroads with players at La Lum, and Epperson chose Creighton over Purdue. I really haven't seen the Lutz' magic convincing La Lum players to come to Purdue.

Did Lutz have inroads to LaLu or was Epperson an exception?

 

[BoilerBiker]

Did Lutz have inroads to LaLu or was Epperson an exception?

t.campbell, if offers count

 

[nitrowars]

With all the ballyhoo on recruiting and listening to Painter talk to Dakich about being tired of getting 2nd and 3rd place ribbons this article had me asking some more questions.

https://purdue.rivals.com/news/two-new-pieces-added-to-bolster-purdue-football-recruiting

Seriously, I think Painter needs to take a more serious look at his staff at the end of every year. I am sure Brantley and Gary are great guys but if they aren't helping to close elite players then they become dead weight. Beilein cut one of his assistants because he thought they needed to be more adaptable on defense. Why not Painter?

Perhaps more lunches/dinners with Brohm and something will rub off.

You better look at 4 star recruits, Painter leads and basketball should never have more 4 star players than football. Player want a Name, location, night life, and diversity, things Purdue does not lead in. We have to get a better Image out there, we know how great Purdue is, but outside Indiana not so much.

 

[SKYDOG]

Painter made a comment that 'we all know who we can date and sometimes we don't want to look in the mirror and come to grips with it'.

Then that's why we aren't getting the elite players if this is his belief. In high school, I asked the best looking girl out for over six months before she said yes. The class was laughing at me for weeks until I had the last laugh. Persistence pays off so giving up is a losers mentality.

 

[BoilerBloodline]

Painter made a comment that 'we all know who we can date and sometimes we don't want to look in the mirror and come to grips with it'.

An interesting comment from him. But it sounds like settling to me. I’m 43 and can name numerous schools who were dominant when I was younger and are terrible now. Just as there are many who were terrible that became a known basketball program. Occasionally makeup is needed to masque what you don’t want to look at, while at least attempting to be more attractive. But after awhile, that makeup is no longer needed to be noticed. Painter won’t even try the makeup.

 

[Statey]

Then that's why we aren't getting the elite players if this is his belief. In high school, I asked the best looking girl out for over six months before she said yes. The class was laughing at me for weeks until I had the last laugh. Persistence pays off so giving up is a losers mentality.

I'm not ready to use the phrase "loser's mentality" yet, but I had the same initial thought when hearing of some of the comments. I haven't had a chance to listen to the full interview, and I want to do that before judging... however, the gut feel I have at the moment is that this is some kind of "expectations" message to fans about recruiting. The statements seem to carry kind of a defeatist connotation to them, so it will be interesting to listen to the tone of his comments with the full context.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

An interesting comment from him. But it sounds like settling to me. I’m 43 and can name numerous schools who were dominant when I was younger and are terrible now. Just as there are many who were terrible that became a known basketball program. Occasionally makeup is needed to masque what you don’t want to look at, while at least attempting to be more attractive. But after awhile, that makeup is no longer needed to be noticed. Painter won’t even try the makeup.

I just heard the interview today. In my opinion, that comment was in regards to the Langford, Conley, and Oden recruitments. He made a strategic decision that resources would be better spent elsewhere, specifically on Harangody, JJ, Hummel, E’twaun, etc instead of pursuing Conley and Oden.
And with Langford being from southern Indiana, you’re just not going to get him.

In context, it made sense to me.

 

[BoilerBloodline]

I just heard the interview today. In my opinion, that comment was in regards to the Langford, Conley, and Oden recruitments. He made a strategic decision that resources would be better spent elsewhere, specifically on Harangody, JJ, Hummel, E’twaun, etc instead of pursuing Conley and Oden.
And with Langford being from southern Indiana, you’re just not going to get him.

In context, it made sense to me.

That makes a big more sense, yet I would never concede anything...like “Southern Indiana”. Are you a New Pal grad? I have a very close friend from there.

 

[BoilerDeac]

I think that is why Lutz was brought on staff...he is a known high ability recruiter. He was in year one and those relationships he was trying to build for Purdue had been established at other places for other players. Steady progress forward is still progress and eventually CMP will start getting more of his first choice guys because getting to the NCAA's and advancing to the Sweet 16 multiple years in a row shows growth...If CMP can take this group to the S16 again next season, you'll likely start to see the dominoes fall more and more in recruiting.

"eventually" ...sigh

 

[StickPurdue]

When Painter finds out somebody is looking for a financial benefit, he moves on. Just like with a certain former Louisville commit who was playing for the same team as one of our commits. Painter can't or won't come out and say that about a player, but it's worth noting when he does bail on a kid, like say Romeo for example, really early. Also Louisville was the projected landing spot until they got caught paying players. The cost of running a clean program is having zero shot at certain players. The FBI investigation lifted the curtain. It isn't saltiness at missing on the top recruits, but more of an understanding.

 

[mreeser]

Bring back Cuonzo! That dude relates with the players. We saw that before he took the Mizzou job where he was hiring parents. Look at the class he helped Painter bring in.

 

[Chuchumutha]

I consider recruiting the most important aspect of coaching in college. I also consider recruiting the biggest coaching weakness of Painter and his staff. If you take recruiting out of the coaching equation, I think Purdue's staff is among the best in the country in identifying and developing talent. But, alas, recruiting. Because of this, I believe Painter needs to take a deep dive into the reasons for his lack of recruiting success and make adjustments where possible. I come from a "lean" background and I think it would be beneficial to run a kaizen event post mortem on recent misses. Ask the five "whys" and get to the root problem. It may not be the same answer for each recruit but, over time, should give a clear picture for improvement. Also, it wouldn't hurt to attempt to get back channel feedback from some of our misses on why we fell short. We may find that some things could not be changed (location, financial incentives, etc.) but some can. I suggest that Bobinski perform the same exercise from his level. I am fully aware that a lot of these concepts may have already been applied to some degree but, given our recruiting performance, we need to continue to strive for more answers and different ways of attacking the problem.

 

[PU pit bull]

Recruiting is also the dirtiest part of coaching. Gotta pay to play in some, or many, instances. In light of the recent events, I think it has been made obviously clear how unfair the battle can be. Tough gig, to build up a program.......and still be able to look in the mirror.

 

[Statey]

I'm not ready to use the phrase "loser's mentality" yet, but I had the same initial thought when hearing of some of the comments. I haven't had a chance to listen to the full interview, and I want to do that before judging... however, the gut feel I have at the moment is that this is some kind of "expectations" message to fans about recruiting. The statements seem to carry kind of a defeatist connotation to them, so it will be interesting to listen to the tone of his comments with the full context.

I'm going to retract part of my earlier thoughts. I listened to the full interview on my drive home today. Regarding the "dating" comment, if I'm wearing my glass-half-full hat, it really sounds like he's saying you just have be smart and focus on the players you think are most realistic and invest your time/energy there. In that sense, it's no different than anything else in life. Listening to the interview, it comes off a fair amount more positive than my initial reaction.

The one thing that really didn't sit well was the Southern Indiana comment about Romeo. He said to Dan rhetorically (paraphrasing) "do you really think we're going to be able to go into Southern Indiana to get him?". He followed it up to say that if a top player is in Indianapolis or Northern Indiana where Purdue is traditionally a little stronger, it would have been a different story. So at some point, he just told himself "this isn't happening" and stated he more/less just stopped recruiting Romeo. That to me is a bit of a problem.

You can't just concede an entire quadrant of the state like that. He didn't mention IU by name, but I took the implication to be that area is an IU stronghold so there was no chance. I can appreciate that it's way more pro-IU than pro-Purdue down there, but IU was flat out not even in it for Romeo until like 6-8 months ago. And even then, they weren't considered the front runner until maybe the final months - perhaps even weeks. That's not a strong area for Vandy either, but it didn't stop Drew from recruiting him. I'm not sure when exactly Painter divested of the recruiting him, but it feels like forever ago, maybe even before Miller was hired. The irony of this "hard to go into another team's stronghold" logic is that that is precisely what Miller did with Damezi and is hot on Keion, the former of which was long thought to be a heavy Purdue lean. So while I understand Painter's more conservative approach, I'mr remind of the Wayne Gretzky quote: "you miss all the shots you don't take".

 

[Purdue85]

You better look at 4 star recruits, Painter leads and basketball should never have more 4 star players than football. Player want a Name, location, night life, and diversity, things Purdue does not lead in. We have to get a better Image out there, we know how great Purdue is, but outside Indiana not so much.

this.

I love what Brohm is doing with the FB program, but it's a bit early to be suggesting Brohm is recruiting circles around Painter. He's not. But, it wouldn't surprise me if some day he's pulling in 4* players consistently. (Which is what Painter has done.)

 

[CrazyHands]

I'm going to retract part of my earlier thoughts. I listened to the full interview on my drive home today. Regarding the "dating" comment, if I'm wearing my glass-half-full hat, it really sounds like he's saying you just have be smart and focus on the players you think are most realistic and invest your time/energy there. In that sense, it's no different than anything else in life. Listening to the interview, it comes off a fair amount more positive than my initial reaction.

The one thing that really didn't sit well was the Southern Indiana comment about Romeo. He said to Dan rhetorically (paraphrasing) "do you really think we're going to be able to go into Southern Indiana to get him?". He followed it up to say that if a top player is in Indianapolis or Northern Indiana where Purdue is traditionally a little stronger, it would have been a different story. So at some point, he just told himself "this isn't happening" and stated he more/less just stopped recruiting Romeo. That to me is a bit of a problem.

You can't just concede an entire quadrant of the state like that. He didn't mention IU by name, but I took the implication to be that area is an IU stronghold so there was no chance. I can appreciate that it's way more pro-IU than pro-Purdue down there, but IU was flat out not even in it for Romeo until like 6-8 months ago. And even then, they weren't considered the front runner until maybe the final months - perhaps even weeks. That's not a strong area for Vandy either, but it didn't stop Drew from recruiting him. I'm not sure when exactly Painter divested of the recruiting him, but it feels like forever ago, maybe even before Miller was hired. The irony of this "hard to go into another team's stronghold" logic is that that is precisely what Miller did with Damezi and is hot on Keion, the former of which was long thought to be a heavy Purdue lean. So while I understand Painter's more conservative approach, I'mr remind of the Wayne Gretzky quote: "you miss all the shots you don't take".

So why is he still going after Trace Jackson-Davis with the above logic? He is from southern Indiana and an IU lean.

 

[Statey]

So why is he still going after Trace Jackson-Davis with the above logic? He is from southern Indiana and an IU lean.

Well, I don't consider a south Indianapolis suburb (Greenwood) to be southern Indiana. And neither does Painter. He specifically said in the interview that if the area in question is Indianapolis, he's all-in (which as you noted, he is for Trayce).

 

[New Pal Boiler]

That makes a big more sense, yet I would never concede anything...like “Southern Indiana”. Are you a New Pal grad? I have a very close friend from there.

No, moved to Indy after I graduated from Purdue, then to New Pal a few years after that.

 

[Poprudy]

I believe Painter has utilized each person for what they are..Biggie, Haas and Hammons were prime examples.

 

[boiler2288]

this.

I love what Brohm is doing with the FB program, but it's a bit early to be suggesting Brohm is recruiting circles around Painter. He's not. But, it wouldn't surprise me if some day he's pulling in 4* players consistently. (Which is what Painter has done.)

I think that L'Ville, KY, IU, UM are already concerned about the recruits Brohm has interested in PU

 

[BoilerBloodline]

No, moved to Indy after I graduated from Purdue, then to New Pal a few years after that.

Ahh! Very nice area to reside. Well, if you know the Schreiber’s, (Schreiber Lumber) they are good friends.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Whatever Oregon did... and whoever Oregon hired... just get those sales guy as long as it's ethical of course.

Then we would be talking to Phil Knight.....

 

[TopSet80]

When Painter finds out somebody is looking for a financial benefit, he moves on. Just like with a certain former Louisville commit who was playing for the same team as one of our commits. Painter can't or won't come out and say that about a player, but it's worth noting when he does bail on a kid, like say Romeo for example, really early. Also Louisville was the projected landing spot until they got caught paying players. The cost of running a clean program is having zero shot at certain players. The FBI investigation lifted the curtain. It isn't saltiness at missing on the top recruits, but more of an understanding.

Are you trying to say that Romeo was paid to go to IU? He's just a year away from being a multi millionaire ya know and he's not from the gutter. He's not the type of kid that would take what Adidas was giving. It wouldn't make any sense to.