Here's a link to the course requirements for a law and society degree ... a popular one among athletes.
http://catalog.purdue.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=7&poid=6596&returnto=2934
No Langford
- Thread starter boilercss
- Start date
Here's a link to the course requirements for a law and society degree ... a popular one among athletes.
http://catalog.purdue.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=7&poid=6596&returnto=2934
Here's the Liberal Arts CORE CURRICULUM. If a student athlete is not planning to earn a math/science degree, he will almost certainly need to meet these requirements for other degree tracks.
http://catalog.purdue.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=7&poid=8022
NOTE:
6 hours english
6 hours math
12 hours foreign language
6 hours science
27 more non-major hours
Sorry to be argumentative, but I believe under NCAA rules that as a freshman and sophomore, a student athlete is free to take any courses that apply toward a degree from the school without regard to tracking or applicability toward any particular degree.
The problem that arises is after the soph year, whatever courses that the athlete has selected then must comprise at least 40% of the hours required for their major.
The school iteself is not likely to be ok with to years of random class choices recognizing that the athlete will go ineligible because an insufficient number of hoirs apply toward their degree.
This doesn't really seem like a difficult idea to understand to me.
For instance, assume an athlete takes 24 hours of PE only for each of his/her first and second years and is a straight A student. He/she would be eligible for years 1 and 2. But the school hopefully would recognize that at the end of year 2, when he/she declares a major, only 20 hours of PE (or however many) would applicable toward a degree in their major that they would become ineligible despite have 48 hours of A's. Thus, while permissible under NCAA no school is going to say that was an acceptable choice even thoigh allowable by NCAA standards.
The problem that arises is after the soph year, whatever courses that the athlete has selected then must comprise at least 40% of the hours required for their major.
The school iteself is not likely to be ok with to years of random class choices recognizing that the athlete will go ineligible because an insufficient number of hoirs apply toward their degree.
This doesn't really seem like a difficult idea to understand to me.
For instance, assume an athlete takes 24 hours of PE only for each of his/her first and second years and is a straight A student. He/she would be eligible for years 1 and 2. But the school hopefully would recognize that at the end of year 2, when he/she declares a major, only 20 hours of PE (or however many) would applicable toward a degree in their major that they would become ineligible despite have 48 hours of A's. Thus, while permissible under NCAA no school is going to say that was an acceptable choice even thoigh allowable by NCAA standards.
You have defined the difference between having a GS degree available and not having one. Purdue doesn't have one. There is no degree that your scenario would apply to. Look at the liberal arts core requirements that I posted. Those are the courses that apply toward a non-math/science degree- not a specific one, any one, but a degree. At a school with a GS degree, then a student athlete could say that any course applied toward a degree. At PU, that isn't true. And I'm done.
This is why I'm asking about Langford. I'm asking because he's projected to be a one and done player. I'm asking because Simmons was also a projected one and done player and there were sightings of him watching every single final four game and other activities when his school was in session and his team wasn't participating in the tourney. And it wasn't Spring break.
As I view a one and done player, they take very easy classes that the NCAA will allow them to take. they spend their second semester playing basketball and going to NBA combines.
if for some reason, they receive bad news and are not projected as a first rounder, they can drop the subjects they may fail the second semester, and then make up the classes online and or during Summer school to get their sufficient credits to remain eligible ???
I'm curious what a one and done hopeful does when he finds out he's not good enough to get drafted? Hopefully, he studied well and took the right courses his first semester, but I fear many do not. And I believe that is why you saw several questionable entries in last year's draft. They knew they wouldn't be eligible if they tried to return. I wonder about players like the one from Duke. he put up terrible numbers and was injured. he go a guarantee, so he left school and took it. I then speculate about players like Trimble. he was a junior, and as draft day approached, and his season was over, his draft stock dropped and he wasn't forecasted to be drafted, yet he kept his name in the draft. He wasn't drafted, and it makes me speculate in the eyes of the NCAA, he might not have been making sufficient progress towards a degree.
on the other hand, I heard a lot of glowing remarks about Swanigan's academic progress. and he well ahead of his requirements, and may follow BigDog's path to obtain his degree at a later date.
On a related note, I once took an MS Office class from a junior college in Oklahoma as just a continuing education self enrichment class. At least half (16) of the Univ of Oklahoma baseball team was also taking the class. I asked one why, and his reply was it's a very easy class, worth 3 credits, and the Univ of Oklahoma accepted it as a transfer credit. I've noticed this pattern followed several other juco colleges I instructed at.
totally, unrelated, but my post made me ask. I know BIG Dog completed his degree and I thought it was in communications - not an easy degree. . I thought he said he liked to be in the background, like a production manager. I'm just curious, what's BIG Dog doing these days?
As I view a one and done player, they take very easy classes that the NCAA will allow them to take. they spend their second semester playing basketball and going to NBA combines.
if for some reason, they receive bad news and are not projected as a first rounder, they can drop the subjects they may fail the second semester, and then make up the classes online and or during Summer school to get their sufficient credits to remain eligible ???
I'm curious what a one and done hopeful does when he finds out he's not good enough to get drafted? Hopefully, he studied well and took the right courses his first semester, but I fear many do not. And I believe that is why you saw several questionable entries in last year's draft. They knew they wouldn't be eligible if they tried to return. I wonder about players like the one from Duke. he put up terrible numbers and was injured. he go a guarantee, so he left school and took it. I then speculate about players like Trimble. he was a junior, and as draft day approached, and his season was over, his draft stock dropped and he wasn't forecasted to be drafted, yet he kept his name in the draft. He wasn't drafted, and it makes me speculate in the eyes of the NCAA, he might not have been making sufficient progress towards a degree.
on the other hand, I heard a lot of glowing remarks about Swanigan's academic progress. and he well ahead of his requirements, and may follow BigDog's path to obtain his degree at a later date.
On a related note, I once took an MS Office class from a junior college in Oklahoma as just a continuing education self enrichment class. At least half (16) of the Univ of Oklahoma baseball team was also taking the class. I asked one why, and his reply was it's a very easy class, worth 3 credits, and the Univ of Oklahoma accepted it as a transfer credit. I've noticed this pattern followed several other juco colleges I instructed at.
totally, unrelated, but my post made me ask. I know BIG Dog completed his degree and I thought it was in communications - not an easy degree. . I thought he said he liked to be in the background, like a production manager. I'm just curious, what's BIG Dog doing these days?
I switched degrees and schools several times at Purdue from Science to Mgmt. to Education. Each school is very specific, and the elective and core requirements were basically the same for all. One of the biggest problems I faced when attending other schools was at the time Purdue only required taking two 2 hour English classes instead of 3 hour classes. One university I transferred to waived the requirement because I already had 150+ semester hours, and another school made me take a third English course to make up for the English credit hours requirement. I never understood why the Purdue English classes were only 2 hour classes.
You might be getting confused between Purdue's requirements and NCAA requirements. Purdue has more stringent requirements around (1)when you declare your major (2) your progression toward your major, and (3) math and language requirements of all majors.
I don't think that I am confused.
Clearly schools can and often do have more stringent requirements and recommendations for classes than the NCAA may require.
What I had suggested was that there is no NCAA requirement during the frosh and soph years of college that athletes either declare a major or make any specific progression towards a degree apart from passing 24/18 hours applicable to degrees per year.
If you check my post in this thread I think you will find that I wasn't commenting on Purdue or any other specific school nor their requirements or recommended course of study, rather merely that I disagreed with the suggestion that majors need be declared prior to the end of sophomore year or that some particular progress (other than total hours towards any degree) need be made during those 2 years and that anything to the contrary is not in the NCAA rule referred to.
Clearly schools can and often do have more stringent requirements and recommendations for classes than the NCAA may require.
What I had suggested was that there is no NCAA requirement during the frosh and soph years of college that athletes either declare a major or make any specific progression towards a degree apart from passing 24/18 hours applicable to degrees per year.
If you check my post in this thread I think you will find that I wasn't commenting on Purdue or any other specific school nor their requirements or recommended course of study, rather merely that I disagreed with the suggestion that majors need be declared prior to the end of sophomore year or that some particular progress (other than total hours towards any degree) need be made during those 2 years and that anything to the contrary is not in the NCAA rule referred to.
I agree with you and having solid 4 year players, however if your only goal is to win a tournament, then one and done studs give you a better chance. Its sad that the regular season has gone by the wayside and isn't that important any longer and we only care about an end of season tournament.
I would fully agree with that. Big 10 Championships and overall records have become meaningless - except to T-shirt manufacturers. . Today, in a lot of people's minds, if you haven't made the final 4, you're considered a loser and should be fired.
Unfortunately you are correct. The ride that brings you to the tournament is so much fun and about half the fans pay no attention.
It's not just college basketball. For example, in the NFL, Jim Mora and Marty Schottenheimer were great regular season coaches, but neither got it done in the postseason, and therefore had theirs careers end sooner than they might have otherwise.
I thought the debate was whether a 1 n done or 2 n done could come to Purdue and focus on hoops, stay eligible and not worry about taking some tough classes in a declared major. I'm not focused on a guy getting a degree in 4 or 5 years, I'm talking about guys going to the NBA after a year or two.
So, just for clarity, the quote about "Exploratory Studies" came direct from the Purdue academic website. Are you saying that this doesn't apply to athletes, that they're under different requirements?
I think this clearly states that a student has 4 semesters to choose a major.
Langford will end up at an Adidas school (KU, IU, UL). I would put it 50/50 between IU-UL. Langford's dad was consulted about a date that would work for them to attend IU's Hoosier Hysteria. IU is rumored to have made up "a lot of ground" with Garland out of Tennessee and is expected to be at their midnight practice/event too. If IU doesn't run out of scholarships on wings they could potentially have one of the best back courts in the Big Ten with Romeo and Garland.
Don't count UL out though, they have been recruiting Langford hard for years. He lives a stones throw away from KFC YUM! Center and the UL campus.
It will be interesting to see what Romeo ultimately decides is the most important factor in his college of choice. He is a one and done talent that will have a shoe contract with Adidas as soon as he signs his pro contract. Schilling is working the Adidas angle as well as the "legend in the state" dream. UL is promising him a year of prep before the NBA. (no hookers were promised in this recruitment)
Don't count UL out though, they have been recruiting Langford hard for years. He lives a stones throw away from KFC YUM! Center and the UL campus.
It will be interesting to see what Romeo ultimately decides is the most important factor in his college of choice. He is a one and done talent that will have a shoe contract with Adidas as soon as he signs his pro contract. Schilling is working the Adidas angle as well as the "legend in the state" dream. UL is promising him a year of prep before the NBA. (no hookers were promised in this recruitment)
I think that you misunderstand the mission of exploratory studies. The exploratory studies route is not easy. They push you to determine what academic path you should take. If you think it's just 2 years of setting your own curriculum, you are mistaken. Many of the students in exploratory studies are there because they did not qualify for the school of engineering, not because they are looking for an easy degree. There is no easy route at Purdue.
Actually, there are definitely paths of least resistance at Purdue. Why do you think so many athletes stick around for Maymester, take summer school or complete classes online that will transfer credits?
But, again, if a player tells Painter and his academic advisor "I'm only going to be here for 2 years at the most, so create a schedule that will allow me to stay eligible for 4 semesters", you don't think they're going to put something together that is VERY manageable?
Your first point: Why do you think UK, Kansas, and UNC have become the default dumping ground for one and done players who don't give a $$$$ about grades.
I don't consider Maymester and summer school to be a path of least resistance. While the vast majority of students are taking the summer off from school, Purdue athletes are taking classes.
And no, I don't think the academic advisors will put together a course plan for the NBA because a player tells them "I'm only going to be here for 2 years at the most..." Simply put, Purdue isn't Kentucky or UNC.
This issue of Purdue being an academic challenge for many athletes has been an on-going argument from Bonefish for almost 3 years (even in his previous posting name). I think it is time to close this argument. Several knowledgeable posters who work with Purdue scholarship athletes or who are directly aware of the real situation have responded.
Here is the deal: Yes, Purdue has some recruiting disadvantages compared to many other schools because we do not compromise our academic standards. We also have challenges keeping athletes eligible. That is just a reality of who we are. I am proud of it. Let's embrace it!
Some of those people you mention forget we are a University first and sports is secondary, if that. And that is the way it should be and as you said, it should be embraced.
There should be zero doubt that we have academic challenges here when it comes to certain athletes and anyone trying to discount that only cheapens their Purdue degree which is far more valuable than any championship that they live vicariously through.
I think there's some truth in this, but I'm not sure some coaches (Painter included) would be comfortable if it got that explicit that the player and parents are opening talking about getting creative (i.e. what we'd normally think of as skirting the guidelines for student athlete). For that matter, any good coach is going to know a kid's academic status and/or capabilities and whether the advisors can keep him on track... if the kid is the one first bringing it to CMP's attention that he's kind of a dummy and may need help staying eligible, then one of his staff members isn't doing their job very well.
Didn't see this posted already, but related to this thread (not the original thread, but the ridiculous rabbit hole which it has now lead)... Purdue announced this week that it is offering a 3-yr degree track for Liberal Arts degrees. Certainly this isn't specific to athletics - which is where this thread was going - but I haven't seen anything to suggest that athletes wouldn't have the same opportunity for a 3-yr degree that any other student would.
Last edited:
Gimme a frickin break! sure, Purdue is a university but it's also a big time college sports program where athletics and the money it generates impacts every aspect of the university, including enrollment.
Do you really think athletes at Michigan, Duke, or some other top schools get anymore breaks than they do at Purdue or is Purdue just that much better at recruiting smarter players who don't need help?
Thinking Purdue is on a high horse academically and using that as an excuse for recruiting failures is laughable. Almost as laughable as saying we lose on recruits because they don't like the weather or we aren't close to a beach.
And by the way, if the schools' mission is first and foremost academics, why are the two highest paid employees the head basketball and football coaches?
Why did the University just pump $100 million into an athletic facility?
I suppose in your whitewashed world of athletic purity where Purdue resides, no players smoke weed, cheat on their academics, drive drunk, etc, etc, etc.
If you believe that, I have some beachfront property in south florida that I'll sell you real cheap.... this weekend only.
If you don't think academics are the highest priority at Purdue than I don't know what to tell you. There is a reason that tuition hasn't been raised and that the degree is viewed as highly as it is and isn't because of sports. Trying to say otherwise is just flat out ridiculous on all sorts of new levels.
The only thing laughable is your attempt to sidestep things that have been proven to be true. I am convinced more than ever that you have just lost touch with reality and just can't handle being viewed as 'wrong' on the internet.
I didn't say academics are not a high priority, but when it comes to football and basketball, keeping players eligible is higher. When was the last time we lost a very high profile athlete to grades?
When your head coaches are paid to win more than they're paid to graduate players, then their own financial interests and career preservation literally depends on their best players staying eligible.
I don't mind being wrong and will admit when I am, but I'm not in this case.
What I'm definitely not though, is naive, when some of you seem to be at an incredible level.
Keep believing Purdue is superior to the rest of the country academically and that's we we miss out on recruits. Keep believing all these other schools are cheating or giving academic passes when Purdue won't because it's not like other schools. Keep believing we're 'special'.
But I've got news for you. We're not. We're a Big10 school with a good academic reputation, with a good, not great, basketball program and a rebuilding football program.
Except that it's been proven that you are. Time and time again. You choosing to ignore facts doesn't make you right, it makes you naive using your own words.
I will because unlike you, I value my Purdue degree.
No one is saying it is the only factor when landing a recruit, but again others have shown you time and time again with proof that it does play a part.
I will because other schools have been busted for just that by the NCAA.
I will because again unlike you, I value my Purdue degree.
In your limited ability to grasp reality, to you we probably aren't.
We're a Big10 school with one of the top academic reputations in the world, with a great not elite (yet) basketball program and a rebuilding football program.
At this point you are just either being hard headed or ignorant to reality because every time you try and discount these things, many people refute your statements constantly. It was done to you in another thread and you ignore it.
It's a shame that if you have a Purdue degree to begin with, you value it so little and just don't have a clear understanding of reality. It's a shame that even when faced with your statements being refuted constantly you can't just admit to being wrong and letting it go when it is so obvious that you are. Maybe one day you will pull your head out of the sand and see that things are simply just not how you think they are.
Yes, there ae easier paths through Purdue for less gifted people. Many athletes follow those. Not everyone has the mind and skills to major in Physics or Chem E. Gee Whiz, some find civil engineering easier than EE. Amazing, eh? That kind or degree of difference between majors, which you seem fixed on, is not the issue here.
What you are not getting is this: Purdue has some academic requirements that apply to all courses of study that many (most) other schools do not. We also do not have a "General Studies" major that allows students to pick and chose the easiest courses. They must pick a major that has meat in it, and progress toward that degree. That requirement does put us at a disadvantage in both recruiting and retaining athletes. ...so yes, it is part of the problem recruiting against Louisville or MSU, where these academic requirements don't constrain the kids. I am certain that is also used by other coaches to negatively recruit against us as well.
I thought this has been well described by several knowledgeable posters here. I don't understand why you are not getting this.
The good news is that athletes can leave better educated from Purdue than the other schools because Purdue will force more difficult educational requirements. If you had only your athletic skills to trade for a college education, you are better off going to a school like Purdue that will give you a fair trade nd provide a solid education, rather than a school like UL where they teach Hookers 101.
purdue definitely seems to be far more stringent regarding academics for athletes than most D1 and power conference schools.
but I do see a little bit of the broader topic being mentioned .... purdue has still chosen to place a high importance on athletics as seen by total dollars spent, especially considering the per person, per building, etc rate.
we could go the university of Chicago route and greatly deemphasize athletics to let academics be nearly the sole focus. of anyone, it seemed that Daniels was a guy to push more toward this ideal just a few years ago(quit arms race), but they have chosen recently to up the ante even more on sports spending.
there seemed to be disdain when the board/cordova/Burke started transferring Btn tv $ to academics. if academics are more important for the school as a whole, wouldn't some really want that strategy to continue? even as a self sustaining AD, any surplus could go to enhancing academics rather than just sports.
Last edited:
Woody Austin, but he did graduate and played out his eligibility only loosing one semester.
And the year we won the Great Alaska Shootout with a wonderful win over Duke, our center Booker (hope I got the name correct) flunked out and never played again for us.
Well there is this...
http://www.purdueexponent.org/sport...cle_af8af1a6-72f6-5049-a770-dac4dfe40dcd.html
http://www.purdueexponent.org/sport...cle_af8af1a6-72f6-5049-a770-dac4dfe40dcd.html
100% agree. Some people WANT so bad for Purdue to be academically like IU or Kentucky for their athletes, that they think it is true. And if Purdue pampers athletes like IU and Kentucky does, then it must be the coach's fault that he doesn't get the same players.
This is your best argument? How is this any different than the general student population? News flash! The general student population at Purdue goes to class, takes tests, and must deliver in the classroom to stay enrolled. Just like the student-athletes. And a portion of the general student population smokes, cheats, and drives drunk. Just like a portion of the student-athletes.
Talk about naive. Can you not see that reality isn't working the way you wish it was?
Thank you for making my point. Woody played in the early 90's and I believe Booker was late 90's. So, that's 2 player in the 25 years or so who had some academic issues. If Purdue were that tough for our athletes, one would think we'd have a higher attrition rate. But, as I stated earlier, the coaches and advisors are going to put athletes in a position to stay eligible.
Bonefish, there is a possible flaw in your logic. You ascribe the two examples cited as demonstrating low standards. An alternative explanation is that Purdue focuses its recruiting efforts on more acadmically capable/interested athletes who are thus more able to succeed in their courses.
Of course, a consequence of the latter strategy is that you are not likely to be successful in attracting many players. The Stanford football coach is on record stating that there are very many good players thst he would lke to recruit, and his opponents do recruit, but is prohibited by the acadmic standards of his university. The problem is a real one and not just in WL.
Of course, a consequence of the latter strategy is that you are not likely to be successful in attracting many players. The Stanford football coach is on record stating that there are very many good players thst he would lke to recruit, and his opponents do recruit, but is prohibited by the acadmic standards of his university. The problem is a real one and not just in WL.
reminds me of andersen leaving wisconsin for oregon state
"It's been well [documented] there were some kids I couldn't get in school. That was highly frustrating to me. I lost some guys, and I told them I wasn't going to lose them.
"I think they did what they were supposed to do [academically] and they still couldn't get in. That was really hard to deal with."
