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Mueller Report

I never thought Trump was a spy for the Russians. I thought and still think that his behavior with the Russians has been "weird" If you look at the pictures after the meeting with Putin you can see how pleased Putin looks and how Trump is acting almost subservient. Also, meeting with him with only translators present painted a suspicious picture. The report stated that the 9 June 2016 meeting, raised “difficult statutory and constitutional questions” relating to “schemes involving the solicitation or receipt of assistance from foreign sources”. It is disturbing that the Trump family was linked in many ways to the Russians and did not report any of their approaches to the Trump campaign to the FBI. Also, they seemed willing to accept the help of a foreign government to win the election. Perhaps it can not be proved in a court of law, a low bar, but I think that ethically we expect or should expect more from our leaders than that
So in other words there is zero evidence that Trump or anyone on his campaign colluded with the Russians - which means the media and some of the dems lied for two years to the American people. I asked for proof Trump colluded and your evidence is that Putin "looked pleased". Good lord.
 
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I googled him also - he is the one in the Mueller Report who was cleared of leaking emails. Assange was lying when he blamed leaks on Seth Rich. One of those things l learned from the Mueller Report. Seth Rich's murder is still unsolved.

Not that I respect or believe Assange but he never names Seth Rich as the leaker. If anything he said it came from inside the DNC but he never even confirmed that, it was more of an insinuation. He did say he never got anything from Russia or any foreign nation.
And I didn't read Muellers report, I'm not going to waste my time on an opinion piece, put together, that should have declared only the facts.
So for those of you who did read the report, where in it does Mueller prove the Russians supplied Assange with the missing HRC e-mails.
I ask were these e-mails part of the 33,000 deleted e-mails or were these e-mails the FBI obtained. If the latter, which i believe to be the case, than someone within Muellers team could have leaked them. Russia had face book posts and social media adds trying to sway voters, probably in both directions a I believe their real intent was to divide the country, but did Mueller provide any proof that Russia hacked into HRC's e-mails and supplied Assange the documents?
 
Not that I respect or believe Assange but he never names Seth Rich as the leaker. If anything he said it came from inside the DNC but he never even confirmed that, it was more of an insinuation. He did say he never got anything from Russia or any foreign nation.
And I didn't read Muellers report, I'm not going to waste my time on an opinion piece, put together, that should have declared only the facts.
So for those of you who did read the report, where in it does Mueller prove the Russians supplied Assange with the missing HRC e-mails.
I ask were these e-mails part of the 33,000 deleted e-mails or were these e-mails the FBI obtained. If the latter, which i believe to be the case, than someone within Muellers team could have leaked them. Russia had face book posts and social media adds trying to sway voters, probably in both directions a I believe their real intent was to divide the country, but did Mueller provide any proof that Russia hacked into HRC's e-mails and supplied Assange the documents?
Sure why read the report? It's much easier to spout off uneducated illogical opinions like normal.
 
Jimmy Carter was also quite an ineffective President. He dithered too much and was indecisive. He is/was a decent man but largely a failure as President.[/QUOTE

I agree but he was/is a good person which is rare in D.C. so it is hard to come up with a name.
 
So in other words there is zero evidence that Trump or anyone on his campaign colluded with the Russians - which means the media and some of the dems lied for two years to the American people. I asked for proof Trump colluded and your evidence is that Putin "looked pleased". Good lord.

What are you on about? In your original post, you said "Beth - the media told us for 2 years that Trump was nothing short of a Russian spy. Please show me the proof that proves they're right" I replied that I never thought he was a spy. I frankly did not read or hear anyone call him a spy. I don't understand what proof you want as I never thought nor saw that he was a spy. Who said he was a "spy"? I don't think he has the skill set necessary to be a spy.
 
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Sure why read the report? It's much easier to spout off uneducated illogical opinions like normal.
So if you have read the report can you point out the pages to me where Mueller provided evidence of Russia supplying wiki leaks the HRC e-mails?
Or did he just come out and say so? Does he supply any evidence of Trump or anyone in Trumps campaign colluding with Russia or does he just suggest the possibility.
Same question for obstruction. If you can point me in the right direction I will read the report. If not I stand by my opinion that the report is not about facts but about opinion. The opinion of 13 HRC supporters fyi. A disgrace to the FBI IMO.
 
So in other words there is zero evidence that Trump or anyone on his campaign colluded with the Russians - which means the media and some of the dems lied for two years to the American people. I asked for proof Trump colluded and your evidence is that Putin "looked pleased". Good lord.
You can believe in whatsoever you like, but the truth remains the truth, no matter how sweet the lie may taste.
Michael Bassey Johnson
 
So if you have read the report can you point out the pages to me where Mueller provided evidence of Russia supplying wiki leaks the HRC e-mails?
Or did he just come out and say so? Does he supply any evidence of Trump or anyone in Trumps campaign colluding with Russia or does he just suggest the possibility.
Same question for obstruction. If you can point me in the right direction I will read the report. If not I stand by my opinion that the report is not about facts but about opinion. The opinion of 13 HRC supporters fyi. A disgrace to the FBI IMO.

There is an entire section on the hacking starting on page 36. The GRU (Russia) hacked the DNC, DCCC, and Clinton campaign then coordinated releases of the information directly with Wikileaks.

On the topic of Obstruction, the report lays out a bevvy of instances of attempts at obstruction...which is essentially the entirety of volume 2. The special counsel can't indict a sitting president per DOJ rules, so no indictment or guidance on an indictment is given.
 
but did Mueller provide any proof that Russia hacked into HRC's e-mails and supplied Assange the documents?

"Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. I think you'll be rewarded mightily by our press."
...
"If Russia or China or any other country has those emails, to be honest with you, I’d love to see them."

-trump


 
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And guess what? Five hours after Mr.Trump made that request, the Russians went to work .
That is horse$hit. Trump makes an offhand comment, and you treat that as an action to obstruct justice?

WTF planet do you live on? People in this country can’t say what they want anymore? Newsflash, a real, tangible ACTION needs to be taken for it to be considered a crime. Please identify where he did that. What you identified sure as hell isn’t one.
 
Not that I respect or believe Assange but he never names Seth Rich as the leaker. If anything he said it came from inside the DNC but he never even confirmed that, it was more of an insinuation. He did say he never got anything from Russia or any foreign nation.
And I didn't read Muellers report, I'm not going to waste my time on an opinion piece, put together, that should have declared only the facts.
So for those of you who did read the report, where in it does Mueller prove the Russians supplied Assange with the missing HRC e-mails.
I ask were these e-mails part of the 33,000 deleted e-mails or were these e-mails the FBI obtained. If the latter, which i believe to be the case, than someone within Muellers team could have leaked them. Russia had face book posts and social media adds trying to sway voters, probably in both directions a I believe their real intent was to divide the country, but did Mueller provide any proof that Russia hacked into HRC's e-mails and supplied Assange the documents?
I'm confused. Yesterday you said "The report should not contain any opinions of intent period. And it does, you need to read the report."

So you claim the report is a Mueller opinion piece and I need to read it..........but you haven't read it. Sounds like you're learning from Donald pretty well.
Who needs an informed electorate?
I'm done with your lame ass.
 
That is horse$hit. Trump makes an offhand comment, and you treat that as an action to obstruct justice?
SD , I wasn't calling that obstruction. If anything that would be collusion . I was just saying that I read it in the report.
 
Thank you for posting this link. The writer makes a very good point that if Trump is not impeached it will set a precedent for future presidents. However, I am not sure that impeachment is possible.
Impeachment would be almost absolutely assured, but Senatorial removal from office is unlikely to a near absolute degree as well.
 
Again, no distinction in this opinion piece between what Trump SAID and what he may have considered doing and what he actually did or what actually happened. He took no action therefore there is no crime committed. His counsel and/or his staff prevented him from acting on his initial statements.

You can't impeach him if there is no crime. The Ds hating Trump does not mean he committed a crime, sorry.
 
SD , I wasn't calling that obstruction. If anything that would be collusion . I was just saying that I read it in the report.
This is also wrong. Mueller goes out of his way to say he investigated conspiracy in Volume I (NOT collusion), since collusion is not an actual crime in the law books, and he investigated supposed obstruction of justice in Volume II.
 
...You can't impeach him if there is no crime. The Ds hating Trump does not mean he committed a crime, sorry.
Impeachment is entirely a political recourse and Congress defines what is or is not a High Crime or Misdemeanor. It is not a statutory definition. Apparently you didn't listen to Lindsey Graham managing the Clinton impeachment saying
“You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic, if this body determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role (it is sufficient)...Impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honour and integrity to the office.”
But, I guess that was then, and this is now. Hmmm...pretty amazing world we live in.
 
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He took no action therefore there is no crime committed. His counsel and/or his staff prevented him from acting on his initial statements.
an excellent indirect point.

next time a president abuses his powers, we might not be so lucky to have him surrounded by staff willing to disobey direct orders.

what a wonderful precedent going forward
for the power of our u.s. presidents kings.
 
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From a Republican who worked on the Trump transition team:

"The Mueller report was that tipping point for me, and it should be for Republican and independent voters, and for Republicans in Congress. In the face of a Department of Justice policy that prohibited him from indicting a sitting president, Mueller drafted what any reasonable reader would see as a referral to Congress to commence impeachment hearings."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/04/gop-staffer-advocates-trumps-impeachment/587785/
 
There is an entire section on the hacking starting on page 36. The GRU (Russia) hacked the DNC, DCCC, and Clinton campaign then coordinated releases of the information directly with Wikileaks.

On the topic of Obstruction, the report lays out a bevvy of instances of attempts at obstruction...which is essentially the entirety of volume 2. The special counsel can't indict a sitting president per DOJ rules, so no indictment or guidance on an indictment is given.

I'll check it out, thanks.
 
There is an entire section on the hacking starting on page 36. The GRU (Russia) hacked the DNC, DCCC, and Clinton campaign then coordinated releases of the information directly with Wikileaks.

On the topic of Obstruction, the report lays out a bevvy of instances of attempts at obstruction...which is essentially the entirety of volume 2. The special counsel can't indict a sitting president per DOJ rules, so no indictment or guidance on an indictment is given.

I'll check it out, thanks.

JS: the report says no obstruction

Literally the report: here are a bunch of instances where attempted obstruction occurred

JS: oh I didn’t actually read the report because i can’t think for myself and only listen to the Cheetoh

So goddamned dumb.
 
I'm confused. Yesterday you said "The report should not contain any opinions of intent period. And it does, you need to read the report."

So you claim the report is a Mueller opinion piece and I need to read it..........but you haven't read it. Sounds like you're learning from Donald pretty well.
Who needs an informed electorate?
I'm done with your lame ass.

Not surprised you are easily confused.
I will some time today, check out the section that describes the Russians supplying wiki leaks with the HRC e-mails. I will make my own mind up as to whether there is enough evidence presented to reach that conclusion. Comey reported there was evidence of many foreign entities hacking into HRC's unsecure server so to pin the release on the Russians, IMO requires some proof.
I didn't read the report because the most of the same FBI agents conducted the two investigations. One on Trump and one on Clinton.

On committing a crime.
After a 2 1/2 MONTH investigation Comey comes out and exonerates HRC, after admitting there was extreme negligence in how she, as Secretary of State, handled classified e-mails.
It was determined that multiple foreign entities had hacked into her illegal electronic devices and had access to top secret information.
Persons are spending jail time for less.
Comey states that no reasonable prosecutor would prosecute this case.
He doesn't even bring up the systematic destruction of the subpoenaed electronic devices by Clinton and her campaign.
Destroying Subpoenaed evidence is the definition of obstruction.
No mention of the Bernie Sanders situation.
Remember that as foreign governments are hacking into top secret U.S. information these same governments are donating millions to the Clinton foundation. Don't you think this would require investigating?
The MSM accepts this summary and doesn't request full disclosure of the report.

After a 2 1/2 YEAR investigation Bar summarizes the Comey/Mueller report accurately that there is no evidence of collusion by Trump or anyone is his campaign.
He also summarizes there is no proof of obstruction of the investigation.
Mueller and his gang of 13 interject, into the report, their opinions that although there was no collusion there was evidence of thoughts of collusion.
And although there was no evidence of obstruction there was ample evidence that Trump thought about obstruction and went do far as to order members of his cabinet to fire Mueller, a job which he could have done himself, and had every legal right to do.
He opinions in the report that although he didn't find enough evidence, after 2 1/2 years of investigation,to warrant prosecution the democratically controlled congress should continue he investigation.
These opinions give the MSM a field day to continue hindering the POTUS agenda.

I think it obvious the gang of 13 knew exactly what they were doing when they conducted both reports and how the information was presented.

And you wonder why I really don't give two hoots about what is in the report.
 
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Not surprised you are easily confused.
I will some time today, check out the section that describes the Russians supplying wiki leaks with the HRC e-mails. I will make my own mind up as to whether there is enough evidence presented to reach that conclusion. Comey reported there was evidence of many foreign entities hacking into HRC's unsecure server so to pin the release on the Russians, IMO requires some proof.
I didn't read the report because the most of the same FBI agents conducted the two investigations. One on Trump and one on Clinton.

On committing a crime.
After a 2 1/2 MONTH investigation Comey comes out and exonerates HRC, after admitting there was extreme negligence in how she, as Secretary of State, handled classified e-mails.
It was determined that multiple foreign entities had hacked into her illegal electronic devices and had access to top secret information.
Persons are spending jail time for less.
Comey states that no reasonable prosecutor would prosecute this case.
He doesn't even bring up the systematic destruction of the subpoenaed electronic devices by Clinton and her campaign.
Destroying Subpoenaed evidence is the definition of obstruction.
No mention of the Bernie Sanders situation.
Remember that as foreign governments are hacking into top secret U.S. information these same governments are donating millions to the Clinton foundation. Don't you think this would require investigating?
The MSM accepts this summary and doesn't request full disclosure of the report.

After a 2 1/2 YEAR investigation Bar summarizes the Comey/Mueller report accurately that there is no evidence of collusion by Trump or anyone is his campaign.
He also summarizes there is no proof of obstruction of the investigation.
Mueller and his gang of 13 interject, into the report, their opinions that although there was no collusion there was evidence of thoughts of collusion.
And although there was no evidence of obstruction there was ample evidence that Trump thought about obstruction and went do far as to order members of his cabinet to fire Mueller, a job which he could have done himself, and had every legal right to do.
He opinions in the report that although he didn't find enough evidence, after 2 1/2 years of investigation,to warrant prosecution the democratically controlled congress should continue he investigation.
These opinions give the MSM a field day to continue hindering the POTUS agenda.

I think it obvious the gang of 13 knew exactly what they were doing when they conducted both reports and how the information was presented.

And you wonder why I really don't give two hoots about what is in the report.
I'm not confused. You lied. You claimed the Mueller report was about opinions because you read it when you hadn't.
But Hillary. Pubs were in complete control for two years. Not the Dems fault she wasn't investigated. Pubs still have the WH and the Senate. Investigate or STFU.
 
I'm amazed that the President doesn't apparently understand how the government is designed to work. He now says that if impeachment proceedings are initiated that he'll go to the Supreme Court to stop them. I am incredulous that a president doesn't appear to understand that impeachment is a political exercise not a judicial one, or that the Supreme Court said so in response to previous proceedings.
https://apnews.com/776978c0f18c43d09da644c320bf0658
 
You can believe in whatsoever you like, but the truth remains the truth, no matter how sweet the lie may taste.
Michael Bassey Johnson
Let's try this again - can you or anyone else please provide the evidence that Trump is guilty of collusion? If not then its time to STFU.
 
Impeachment is entirely a political recourse and Congress defines what is or is not a High Crime or Misdemeanor. It is not a statutory definition. Apparently you didn't listen to Lindsey Graham managing the Clinton impeachment saying
“You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic, if this body determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role (it is sufficient)...Impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honour and integrity to the office.”
But, I guess that was then, and this is now. Hmmm...pretty amazing world we live in.
How do they get the R-controlled Senate to vote to impeach? Answer: They can’t. If Ds in the House try to impeach their party will pay a price in 2020. They will play their cards poorly and play right into Trump’s hands. They will make him seem aggrieved and make it look like the Ds aren’t fit to govern. They have no realistic platform or planks to run on except go after Trump. That’s not a recipe for success.
 
JS: the report says no obstruction

Literally the report: here are a bunch of instances where attempted obstruction occurred

JS: oh I didn’t actually read the report because i can’t think for myself and only listen to the Cheetoh

So goddamned dumb.
Attempted obstruction is not the same as obstruction actually happened. Why is this so hard to understand?
 
I'm amazed that the President doesn't apparently understand how the government is designed to work. He now says that if impeachment proceedings are initiated that he'll go to the Supreme Court to stop them. I am incredulous that a president doesn't appear to understand that impeachment is a political exercise not a judicial one, or that the Supreme Court said so in response to previous proceedings.
https://apnews.com/776978c0f18c43d09da644c320bf0658
As president, he has always thought the people he appointed worked for him, loyalty to him is their job. He has a fundamental misunderstanding of what a republic is.

This is just another example. He believes the two people he put in the SC should be and will be loyal to him. They should save his ass when they actually have nothing to do with the process. Besides, Roberts had shown signs that he will not be Trump's pawn.

Trump's supporters have no problem with his ignorance or his willingness to subvert the process.
 
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How do they get the R-controlled Senate to vote to impeach? Answer: They can’t. If Ds in the House try to impeach their party will pay a price in 2020. They will play their cards poorly and play right into Trump’s hands. They will make him seem aggrieved and make it look like the Ds aren’t fit to govern. They have no realistic platform or planks to run on except go after Trump. That’s not a recipe for success.
I agree as to the description of the impeachment process and possibilites for removal. I personally don't support the concept of initiating impeachment proceedings at this point, not because there is no valid basis, but because, as I have repeatedly stated, I recognize that such is a poltical process and I believe in the current circumstances it would be a poor political choice. Pretty straightforward for me.
 
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Attempted obstruction is not the same as obstruction actually happened. Why is this so hard to understand?
Actually, I believe that I may disagree with you as to the general concept of obstruction.
Perhaps, a non-legal explanation can make my view clear. If I begin to build a rail fence across the sidewalk but abandon its completion and just walk way leaving the materials laying on the walk, I have obstructed your travel even if you step over my fence materials.
 
JS: the report says no obstruction

Literally the report: here are a bunch of instances where attempted obstruction occurred

JS: oh I didn’t actually read the report because i can’t think for myself and only listen to the Cheetoh

So goddamned dumb.
Attempted obstruction is not the same as obstruction actually happened. Why is this so hard to understand?

This coming from someone who has trouble with Velcro. Here’s the thing with people like you, the ones who reside so far up trumps ass that you’re able to eat the undigested parts of his eight daily Big Macs: When you are part of the group of dimwits who suck in Fox News, the same Fox News that oh yes, just went back the other day to the long empty Hilary email well yet again, the same Fox News that hasn’t apologized to the family of Seth Rich for pushing horrible conspiracy theories, and the same Fox News that would implode if this same exact report came out with Obama’s name on it instead of Trump, you can fukk all the way off. And then when you come back from that, you can just go fukk yourself.

You sit here and defend a man who has no grasp of even the basics of a democracy, and you file that under “draining the swamp”. You defend a man who tried to obstruct and was only thwarted because some people around him had a sliver of morals. Like that’s some high standard shit or something. Hey, here’s a 400 page document that details all the times he attempted obstruction but the only reason it didn’t happen was because the people he told to do it cared just barely enough not to follow through.

Do you ever think about how ridiculous that thought process is and how ridiculous it is that you defend this? Oh because he didn’t actually obstruct EVEN THOUGH HE TRIED OVER AND OVER, then hey that’s just fine. If you can live with yourself for being that way, then it only goes to show that you care more about that orange turd than you do about this country. And for that, you can fukk yourself hard again. You’re a truly pathetic citizen, SD. Truly a dumb, brainwashed halfwit (copy/paste for folks like hunk, JS, and your other KKK friends on here). I’m not even embarrassed for you because that would mean I would care about you. You clearly don’t care about this country, so why should anyone give two $hits about you. So again, just to reiterate, go fukk yourself. Hard. Also, have a shitty day. You deserve it.
 
Attempted obstruction is not the same as obstruction actually happened. Why is this so hard to understand?
And as to the legal side of it... as a sample this is the Illinois Pattern Jury Instruction defining Obstruction of Justice -

A person commits the offense of obstructing justice when, with intent to [(prevent the
apprehension) (obstruct the prosecution) (obstruct the defense)] of any person, he knowingly
[1] [(destroys) (alters) (conceals) (disguises)] physical evidence.
[or]

[2] [(plants false evidence) (furnishes false information)].
[or]

[3] induces a witness, having knowledge of the subject at issue, to [(leave the State)
(conceal himself)].


and this is the corresponding issues instruction -

To sustain the charge of obstructing justice, the State must prove the following
propositions:
First Proposition: That the defendant knowingly [(destroyed) (altered) (concealed)
(disguised)] physical evidence; and
Second Proposition: That the defendant did so with intent to [(prevent the apprehension)
(obstruct the prosecution) (obstruct the defense)] of ____.
[or]
First Proposition: That the defendant knowingly [(planted false evidence) (furnished
false information)]; and
Second Proposition: That the defendant did so with intent to [(prevent the apprehension)
(obstruct the prosecution) (obstruct the defense)] of ____.
[or]
First Proposition: That ____(witness) was a witness having knowledge of ____(subject
at issue); and
Second Proposition: That the defendant induced ____(witness) [(to leave the State)
(conceal himself)]; and
Third Proposition: That the defendant did so with intent to [(prevent the apprehension)
(obstruct the prosecution) (obstruct the defense)] of ____.
If you find from your consideration of all the evidence that each one of these propositions
has been proved beyond a reasonable doubt, you should find the defendant guilty.
If you find from your consideration of all the evidence that any one of these propositions
has not been proved beyond a reasonable doubt, you should find the defendant not guilty
.

Success or failure is not part of the equation.
 
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Attempted obstruction is not the same as obstruction actually happened. Why is this so hard to understand?
And further, as the U.S. Supreme Court clarified in
United States v. Aguilar, 515 U.S. 593, 599 (1995).and as noted in the Federal Pattern Jury Instructions at p. 295

The government does not need to prove that the endeavor to corrupt was successful, but “the endeavor must have the natural and probable effect of interfering with the due administration of justice.”
 
And further, as the U.S. Supreme Court clarified in
United States v. Aguilar, 515 U.S. 593, 599 (1995).and as noted in the Federal Pattern Jury Instructions at p. 295

The government does not need to prove that the endeavor to corrupt was successful, but “the endeavor must have the natural and probable effect of interfering with the due administration of justice.”

I'm just happy SD is acknowledging there were (many) attempts to obstruct. This idea would've been met with fury and indignation a year ago. :)
 
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