I know this is probably not the right time to ask but I'm going to anyway. The question is; how far in March would this season mean success for you?
How far in March will satisfy you?
- Thread starter The Boiler Special
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Depends on the fan.
Some don't care if we win a single game. If we were ranked all season that's good enough.
Some think if we are in the B10 title hunt or win it, that's enough
The reality is that much of the fan base for various reasons puts less emphasis on tournament success than regular season success.
I'm not one of those fans so my answer was elite eight as a floor.
Some don't care if we win a single game. If we were ranked all season that's good enough.
Some think if we are in the B10 title hunt or win it, that's enough
The reality is that much of the fan base for various reasons puts less emphasis on tournament success than regular season success.
I'm not one of those fans so my answer was elite eight as a floor.
I put E8 also, for the same reason.
I think the program is trending in the right direction, but another early loss will blunt that momentum a bit.
I don't see it as silly at all... What he meant by "not win a single game" is lose first game in the tourney... There are people who defend the first round exits and don't seem to see the trend in those losses nor have too much of an issue with it... They will point out all the B1G championships... Most of these folks would rather insult and add nothing to the discussion with quick snipes like "silliest post of the week"... Deny reality all you want but it's out there for everyone to see...
I think a lot of that has to do with the lack of post season success. Most of our fanbase is expecting a March letdown so they'll enjoy the ride throughout the season. I get it. But, this year? The Big Ten is so bad that winning it doesn't really turn the dial for me. We're good enough to make the Final Four. It's Final Four or bust.
I get what you're saying. But at some point you become a joke... When you look to have good teams on paper and seem to do everything possible to set yourself up for a tourney run to then fail miserably consistently... People outside of Purdue will just shrug you off completely... People will be quick to say, who cares what they think, but there is something called team pride... Every fan has it... We are proud of Purdue and all of its accomplishments in sports and specifically basketball... However, no one outside of the program care... Mostly because we are completely irrelevant come tourney time. And like it or not, most people these days put all their stock in a program in March. While it's not fair it is the reality... How many programs have had success like Purdue has had since 1980 and not been a a single final 4? and only 2 elite 8's? This program could take a giant leap with a final 4 run... But every February we begin to see the same things....
In the tournament genius. Pretty hard to not win a single game at all AND be ranked all season.
Depends on a litany of circumstance. As always, I'm hoping for a championship and will be ecstatic with a Final Four. But I also recognize that only 30% of 1 seeds reach a Final Four and sometimes you run into a team better than you either overall or on that particular day. Did you lose because they went nuts or did you lose because you gave it away? All that matters.
At this point I think the joke lable is already there. The narrative is November National Champs and perennial chokers in the Tourney, which is a completely fair narrative. The last thing I would do to fix is it fire Painter. But, the reality is the story will continue until he adjusts. And playing Morton 19 minutes for his "defense" isn't adjusting and will get us sent home early in the Tourney.
It's obvious what I meant, some folks just wanna play the I'm a better fan than you because I never question anything and lose my mind if anyone suggests things aren't always going great role.
I have booked a B&B already April 5-12 in Sedona, AZ. I hope the Boilers do NOT stand me up at the Big Dance! We r driving out leaving the 3rd…on Route 66!
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You’ll have a great time either way !
There’s no question that we looked tight against FDU, on top of being worn down by 23 B1G indoor rugby games.
Some guys looked afraid to shoot. I don’t think Jones or Colvin will suffer from that.
Yup same. I think a lot of the fan base is wanting more and more success in the tourney. Especially with the awful loss last year where if you’re a Purdue fan all you hear about is “FDU FDU” no matter how good this team is. Nothing will silence that unless it’s an E8…probably a NC appearance tbh. It’s unfortunate, since this team is really good, but at this point in the season, seem to be in a “lose, lose” situation. If they win, it’s “well yeah they should have cuz their better/the refs hand the games to Purdue” and if they lose it’s “same old Purdue starting to lose around the same time as always”.
Need to see how we come out vs Rutgers. I have been an advocate for Loyer, but now in the camp to give Heide and Colvin mins, even if it means we lose…if we don’t go don’t give them mins, we better hope we dont have a game where Gillis gets 1 shot, with lance and Loyer not shooting well…although Lance hit that huge 3 to tie it up and it doesn’t happen often that 2 of the 3 guards have a bad game. I wish Braden had looked for his shot more. Anyways, going off topic for this thread…I say E8 is floor and obviously crazy things can happen, but if nothing crazy happens and we don’t get there, it’ll be a disappointment and a waste of having the NPOTY x2
I've gone back and fourth with CMP for years now. I completely see both sides of the argument. The question though is; are you ok with lots of regular season success and next to no March success? One way to look at it is CMP has taken this program from top 10-20 perennially to top 5... Now when exactly did that exchange happen? Pretty much directly after the elite 8 run... Correct me if I'm wrong, I very well can be here, but it seems post that run CMP has been able to recruit higher rated players more consistently... Which means, imo this program has grown quite a bit since the elite 8 run... So yea, I don't believe firing CMP is the answer right now... However, how long do we go top 5 regular season and by March be completely burned out playing our worst basketball before we all can look at each other and agree a change is necessary? Probably never for some, and again, I can see why, but I fully believe this program is capable of and deserves much more...
Agreed. And I think Jones is going to have his chance to carry us at some point in the Tourney. And I believe he can do it. We're obviously in really good shape any game Edey can dominate and Smith plays well. It's likely foolish to expect that scenario for 4 straight Tourney games just to get to the Final Four.
Last year was an abomination and Painter admits as such. But to prove how hard it is to win consistently in March.;
Did you know that prior to last year, Purdue had played in the Sweet 16 or further in 4 of the previous 5 tournaments and only Gonzaga can claim the same? Duke can't. UK can't. Kansas can't. UNC can't. No one else can.
Also, did you know that in the three prior to last year's run to a Championship, UConn had a year where they missed the tournament and two others where they lost to double digit seeds in the first round?
Gonzaga, Duke, UK, Kansas, UNC.....what's different about them in the tournament from Purdue????
There’s 23 championships between these 4 schools. I think they’re probably okay with missing a sweet 16 now and then.
Edit: I will give you that the Big Blue Nation is getting a little restless down in Lexington.
Let me say first that I respect UConn and they’re really good and just using this as an example, but to add on to your example, they hadn’t won a tourney game in almost 10 years and fans wanted Hurley fired prior to winning it all last year. Not saying we all of a sudden will do the same cuz why would we change all of a sudden, right?
I don't think that summary is accurate. ALL Boilermakers fans were devastated on the recent tournament performance. Furthermore, fans want the team to ALWAYS make the tournament.
But you can't ignore the importance of non-conference and conference play as it hones the skills to compete in March. The accompanying media attention due to in-season ratings drives awareness, recruiting interest, and NIL funding. That being said, tournament performance is equally important when building a blue-blood program.
However, we can all agree that NOTHING has a more significant impact on April's ranking than a team's tournament performance.
I don't think that summary is accurate. ALL Boilermakers fans were devastated on the recent tournament performance. Furthermore, fans want the team to ALWAYS make the tournament.
But you can't ignore the importance of non-conference and conference play as it hones the skills to compete in March. The accompanying media attention due to in-season ratings drives awareness, recruiting interest, and NIL funding. That being said, tournament performance is equally important when building a blue-blood program.
However, we can all agree NOTHING has a more significant impact on April's ranking than a team's tournament performance.
I highly value the regular season but anything less than a Final Four for this team will be a disappointment. I'm not calling the season a failure if they win the Big Ten and don't make a FF but I'd certainly be disappointed, I think that coaches, players and most fans would be as well.
I’m in the same boat, when Loyer isn’t firing, he becomes a liability. We need to get Cam and Myles into the flow of the game. Said it in another thread but we should be running action for them. They both have driving abilities and strength to finish at the rim. Give them something. Otherwise they are basically getting minutes running wind sprints.
They wanted him fired after only being there for how long? They also hadn't won a tourney game in 10 years but their previous win was the Championship... Tough comparison but I do understand where you're coming from...
I mean plenty of posts here last year after the tourney haranguing folks for not understanding what a great season it was and how the tourney is mostly luck and doesn't matter that much etc etc
Right right. I’m not saying we are on that level, just that they hadn’t seen ANY success for a decade…not even a win, weren’t sure Hurley could cut it…then they go on a run after losing 5 conference games last year. It could happen for us but we need to start ascending and descending with our play. Hasn’t looked great these last two, at least in Minnesota we were able to adjust in 2ns half. Ohio state had a little bit of an upper hand by being a bit different team than they were all year. BUT we still shoulda blown em out. It looked like we were going to at the start but not hitting 3s really hurt…which hasn’t been too much of a problem all year.
Assuming Edey doesn't return after this season, F4 should be the floor.
We've been ranked in the top 4 pretty much all season. UConn is head and shoulders better than any other team right now, but assuming we have a 1 seed we don't need to meet them until late. I obviously hope they get upset since they are a matchup nightmare for us.
Draw a circle with a 300 mile radius from WL. That is, reasonably, our recruiting area. It extends past Madison, past East Lansing, past Ann Arbor, to the western side of PA. It includes all of KY, the northern portion of TN, all of IL, and the eastern portions of Iowa and Missouri.
Now, think about all the schools in this region that have been to the F4 since 2005. There's no legitimate reason we shouldn't be on that list once during that time period. This is not a "luck" thing - it is a reverting to the mean thing. Our average has been unacceptably low in March for way too long, given our recruiting area and our resources.
I would argue that given the success of our neighbors, we really should have gone to multiple F4s in this same time period. We've underperformed for way too long.
We've been ranked in the top 4 pretty much all season. UConn is head and shoulders better than any other team right now, but assuming we have a 1 seed we don't need to meet them until late. I obviously hope they get upset since they are a matchup nightmare for us.
Draw a circle with a 300 mile radius from WL. That is, reasonably, our recruiting area. It extends past Madison, past East Lansing, past Ann Arbor, to the western side of PA. It includes all of KY, the northern portion of TN, all of IL, and the eastern portions of Iowa and Missouri.
Now, think about all the schools in this region that have been to the F4 since 2005. There's no legitimate reason we shouldn't be on that list once during that time period. This is not a "luck" thing - it is a reverting to the mean thing. Our average has been unacceptably low in March for way too long, given our recruiting area and our resources.
I would argue that given the success of our neighbors, we really should have gone to multiple F4s in this same time period. We've underperformed for way too long.
Regular season success is fine. But, you don't get to be an elite basketball program just through regular season success. Elite status is acquired by sustained success in the tourney. So, Purdue really needs to become a team that is not only well-positioned come tournament time, but takes advantage of it more often than not. Having not made the final four in 40+ years is the opposite of that. So, for me, I gotta see a final four appearance this year. And then, I want to see Purdue follow that up with regular appearances in the second and third week of the tourney. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm starved for tourney success. I'll trade B1G regular season and B1G tourney success for NCAA tourney success. I'm too old to settle for anything less.
I would agree with pretty much everything here... Again, does that mean Fire Paint? No, but the main question for me is if nothing changes, at what point is that something we can talk about? Probably for some, never and I get it... Don't have to look any farther than Bloomington to see what path that could lead you down... It's a very strange place this program is currently. One of the most relevant regular season programs, probably the most relevant the last 2 seasons. Look at who Purdue has beaten on neutral courts the last couple years. That makes them possibly the most relevant program in the NCAA... But once February hits things take a drastic turn... Such a crazy situation... Of course, imo a deep run this year and this conversation completely changes... In fact I think it would change everything... Not just on a dumb forum but for the entirety of the basketball program for years to come... Call it an over reaction but that's how I see it... Fail again and... Well that's nothing new...
Totally agree. We kept hearing how Painter injected athleticism into this years team during the offseason with Heide and Colvin.
But, what have we seen? Heide gets about 5 mins and Colvin about 2? Why? Because Painter trusts Morton more to not make mistakes? How the hell are these guys going to get better if they're not given the opportunity to do so in game situations?
We may have more athletes than we had last year, but they're just not on the floor.
I've been a Purdue fan for nearly half a century so I've seen a lot of postseason failures. That said, I think it's extremely unfair to put 43 years of failures to reach the Final Four on this team.
None of the guys on this team were even born yet when I went to Knoxville to watch the best college player I've ever seen come up short against Duke in the Elite Eight.
And most weren't born yet when Purdue had a golden opportunity in Albuquerque to beat 8 seeded Wisconsin to give Gene Keady his first every Final Four but we came away bloodied in defeat.
None of them were in college when all we needed was a guy whose name is in the Hall of Fame for free throw shooting to hit two free throws in Louisville to remove the tag of best coach to not play in a Final Four from Painter.
None of the guys on this team were even born yet when I went to Knoxville to watch the best college player I've ever seen come up short against Duke in the Elite Eight.
And most weren't born yet when Purdue had a golden opportunity in Albuquerque to beat 8 seeded Wisconsin to give Gene Keady his first every Final Four but we came away bloodied in defeat.
None of them were in college when all we needed was a guy whose name is in the Hall of Fame for free throw shooting to hit two free throws in Louisville to remove the tag of best coach to not play in a Final Four from Painter.
Top 4 team all season, top 4 in all the metrics, #1 or #2 overall seed at this point. 2 time national player of the year. I don't know how anything less than a FF could be seen as anything but a disappointment.
I know as PU fans we are always trying to temper our enthusiasm for March, but if not this year, when? By every metric, this is the best team CMP has had. We're top 20 in offense and defense which is the normal formula for a championship.
Am I jumping off a cliff if they don't? Of course not and I'll be right back here next year cheering them on and talking PU hoops. But anything less than a FF will be a disappointment for me.
I know as PU fans we are always trying to temper our enthusiasm for March, but if not this year, when? By every metric, this is the best team CMP has had. We're top 20 in offense and defense which is the normal formula for a championship.
Am I jumping off a cliff if they don't? Of course not and I'll be right back here next year cheering them on and talking PU hoops. But anything less than a FF will be a disappointment for me.
