Free Student Football Tix Question For Old School PU Fans & Alums

[i'vegotwinners]

i asked this question in the middle of another thread, but am hoping for more response, so i'll try again.

it is my understanding that way back when, that PU didn't charge students extra to attend home football games.

less concerned with how the university did or didn't fund this, but rather whether this is correct, and if so, the timeline of that policy.

if students did at one time not have to purchase football tix to gain admission to games, when did that policy start, and when did it end?


if the program was funded by some kind of "student activity fee" like deal, any specifics on that, (such as the amount of the fee), would also be appreciated. but mostly just interested if indeed PU students did at one time gain free admission to games or not, and if so, the timeline of that policy.

 

[Boiler8285]

I don't recall the cost but tix were part of your fee in the late 70's and early 80's. Don't know when it stopped. Games were a great time and most everyone attended. Didn't hurt that we were pretty good under Jim Young at the time.

 

[Born Boiler]

SIBoiler responded to this on the other attendance thread.

All students were charged an activity fee in their tuition-fee package, then, upon payment, were sent a computer card to exchange for a student football season ticket. Nothing was free.

The response was always strong. Student attendance exceeded 20,000, with the assigned seating covering a third of the stadium, ranging from the freshmen and the Block P card section in the north end zone and extending around the east side to the seniors near the 50.

That all changed in 1989 when students were asked to buy their tickets separately. That response also was strong, but in reverse. The overall average attendance immediately dropped by 18,700, even though the cost difference was minimal.

This year, several thousand students were given tickets to the season opener that were purchased by Daniels, Burke and Hazell. Otherwise, they had to pay.

This year was the second biggest drop on record and the lowest average since 1951.

The annual attendance averages ...



Year Games Total Average Difference (Capacity)[/B]

1926* 3 33,000 11,000 -

1927* 2 22,000 11.000 -

1928* 2 40,000 20,000 +9,000

1929* 3 60,000 20,000 -

1930* 2 36,000 18,000 -2,000

1931* 2 38,000 19,000 +1,000

1932* 2 39,000 19,500 +500

1933 3 44,000 14,667 -4,833

1934* 2 42,000 21,000 +6,333

1935 2 31,000 15,500 -5,500

1936 3 65,000 21,667 +6,167

1937* 2 40,000 20,000 -1,667

1938 3 74,000 24,667 +4,667

1939 2 43,000 21,500 -3,167

1940 3 69,000 23,000 +1,500

1941 3 56,000 18,667 -4,333

1942 4 72,000 18,000 -667

1943 3 43,000 14,333 -3,667

1944 4 77,000 19,250 +4,917

1945 4 58,000 14,500 -4,750

1946 3 98,000 32,667 +18,167

1947 5 172,000 34,400 +1,733

1948 4 160,000 40,000 +5,600

1949 4 160,000 40,000 - (51,295)

1950 4 146,000 36,500 -3,500

1951 5 146,000 29,200 -7,300

1952 4 172,500 43,125 +13,925

1953 4 155,635 38,909 -4,216

1954 6 266,900 44,483 +5,574

1955 5 213,800 42,760 -1,723 (55,500)

1956 4 176,892 44,223 +1,463

1957 4 160,777 40,194 +4,029

1958 4 181,246 45,312 +5,118

1959 4 173,671 43,418 -1,894

1960 5 227,655 45,531 +2,113

1961 4 188,984 47,246 +1,715

1962 4 186,141 46,535 -711

1963 4 183,735 45,934 -601

1964 4 210,877 52,719 +6,785 (60,000)

1965 5 262,694 52,539 -180

1966 5 269,843 53,969 +1,430

1967 5 300,567 60,113 +6,144

1968 5 305,620 61,124 +1,011 (68,000)

1969 5 333,122 66,624 +5,500

1970 5 340,090 68,018 +1,394 (67,332)

1971 5 329,124 65,825 -2,193

1972 6 355,876 59,313 -6,512

1973 6 346,038 57,673 -1,640

1974 6 338,853 56,476 -1,197

1975 6 356,568 59,428 +2,952

1976 6 353,979 58,997 -431

1977 6 363,068 60,511 +1,514

1978 6 373,504 62,251 +1,740

1979 6 413,794 68,966 +6,715

1980 6 418,256 69,709 +743

1981 6 419,351 69,892 +183

1982 6 401,166 66,861 -3,031

1983 5 326,789 65,358 -1,503

1984 6 380,314 63,386 -1,972

1985 6 380,339 63,400 +14

1986 6 378,657 63,110 -290

1987 6 368,370 61,395 -1,715

1988 6 364,352 60,725 -670

1989 6 252,537 42,090 -18,635

1990 6 263,434 43,906 +1,816

1991 6 252,094 42,016 -1,890

1992 6 247,381 41,230 -786

1993 6 277,877 46,313 +5,083

1994 6 272,512 45,419 -894

1995 6 301,895 50,316 +4,897

1996 6 271,837 45,306 -5,010

1997 6 310,141 51,690 +6,384

1998 6 331,959 55,327 +3,637

1999 6 380,542 63,424 +8,097

2000 6 391,913 65,319 +1,895

2001 6 375,506 62,584 -2,735

2002 7 395,008 56,430 -6,154 (66,295)

2003 7 410,176 58,597 +2,167 (62,500)

2004 6 381,292 63,549 +4,952

2005 6 377,977 62,996 -553

2006 7 388,198 55,457 -7,539

2007 7 415,279 59,326 +3,869

2008 7 396,915 56,702 -2,624

2009 7 353,197 50,457 -6,245

2010 7 336,443 48,063 -2,394

2011 7 316,574 45,225 -2,838

2012 7 305,118 43,588 -1,637

2013 7 342,673 48,953 +5,365

2014 7 246,880 35,269 -13,684 (57,236)

(* records incomplete)

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Originally posted by Born Boiler:


SIBoiler responded to this on the other attendance thread.

All students were charged an activity fee in their tuition-fee package, then, upon payment, were sent a computer card to exchange for a student football season ticket. Nothing was free.

The response was always strong. Student attendance exceeded 20,000, with the assigned seating covering a third of the stadium, ranging from the freshmen and the Block P card section in the north end zone and extending around the east side to the seniors near the 50.

That all changed in 1989 when students were asked to buy their tickets separately. That response also was strong, but in reverse. The overall average attendance immediately dropped by 18,700, even though the cost difference was minimal.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




you infer that when PU started charging students separately for football tix, that student attendance dropped that yr from 20,000 or more, to less than 2,000.

is this actually factually correct, or have you taken some poetic license here?


i do appreciate any input.


on a side note, while not totally relevant to my interest in the matter, do you or anyone by chance know approx how much said "activity fee" was over the yrs?

some other questions

anyone know if PU ever charged for student football tix prior to 1989?

how much were student football tix in 1989, when they were no longer included in other fees?

how much were they this yr, and how many per game on average were sold.

 

[lbodel]

A few things should be noted...

-The attendance drop in 1989 is not all students (i.e. 20,000 students to 1,500 students), although student attendance still did drop a lot. This was also a bad period (Akers).

-The 80s and 2014 are very different. Even successful teams have difficulty keeping student attendance up (i.e. Michigan State this year was widely reported...Tim Izzo also called out MSU students before). There's obviously a plethora of reasons for this, probably one of the bigger ones being cars. Significantly more students have cars now than they did in the 80s. Fewer lived off-campus. Students in greek life has dramatically declined, which athletics was a big part of greek life.

-There are schools that still offer free tickets to students as part of a fee they already pay like this and they do not see a windfall of student attendance. Clemson is an example - they rarely ever run out of student tickets even when ranked.

Overall, the thought is supply/demand in a sense. If students get free tickets, it creates little sense of commitment. If you can show up anytime and go to a game, there's no commitment. Chances are if money is spent on tickets, you are probably going to make more of an effort to use that ticket.

I really don't think using the 1 game this year where tickets were free is something to really base anything off of over the long term. First off, the game fell on one of the first weekends of the academic year. Everyone's looking for something to do, there's hardly anyone going home one week into school, etc. It's also several thousand students first year and first opportunity to do a "college" athletics experience. First games are typically pretty well attended in general even outside of students because it is the first game of the season and the excitement of the season (you're undefeated!). I mean if you look at Purdue's single game attendance over the last severals, our games against sisters of the poor early in the season are better attended than against ranked teams a 4-6 weeks into the season.

 

[Redhotfill]

I was there, 1989 if I recall correctly. I think it went from included under activities fees so you got it free and then paid $56 in 1989. Student attendance dropped like a rock, but we also had the forerunner of Haz named Fred Akers, doing about the same thing to the program as is happening now so students were not going to pay $56 to watch the not ready for Big10 coaching happen. I swear W's were an unintended consequence of extreme incompetence under Fred Akers. Don't pee on John Purdue's grave, find Fred Akers!

 

[Purduethruandthru]

Don't recall the exact activity fee back in 1970, but it was included in the tuition with no choice. I think tuition jumped that year from $200 per semester to a whopping $345. Don't forget that the activity fee included a pick up card for any athletic event and the student use of Co-rec etc. The reason for the pickup card rather than an outright ticket was because of the limited seating in the indoor sports. Freshmen and fraternity pledges would camp all night with the pick up cards for their dorm or fraternity and submit them first come first serve for tickets.

 

[SunnyFL24]

All I know during my years from 82-86 (Campbell Everett era) tickets were part of your tuition. I was PIKE and the Greek section as well as the other students took up the whole horseshoe! Great times then....................always a full house!!!!!!

 

[IndySouthsider]

Akers was a miserable Purdue coach. But come on Hazell isn't half the coach Akers was. Akers has a pretty impressive overall coaching record in college football. Just never should have tried to be Texas at Purdue. And Hazell needs to ditch the OSU model. Colletto already failed in that regard.

 

[tjreese]

I seem to recall in the early to mid 70's it was $6 season*nm

.

 

[boilerdug]

Originally posted by i'vegotwinners:
i asked this question in the middle of another thread, but am hoping for more response, so i'll try again.

it is my understanding that way back when, that PU didn't charge students extra to attend home football games.

less concerned with how the university did or didn't fund this, but rather whether this is correct, and if so, the timeline of that policy.

if students did at one time not have to purchase football tix to gain admission to games, when did that policy start, and when did it end?


if the program was funded by some kind of "student activity fee" like deal, any specifics on that, (such as the amount of the fee), would also be appreciated. but mostly just interested if indeed PU students did at one time gain free admission to games or not, and if so, the timeline of that policy.

The tickets weren't technically "free"....they were bundled in with tuition costs and fees. I believe they stopped doing this in early or mid-90s. I had heard that some students threatened a lawsuit saying that they shouldn't be forced to pay for football tickets, and then the university stopped including the tickets in tuition.

 

[Alstott2Zgonina]

Originally posted by IndySouthsider:
Akers was a miserable Purdue coach. But come on Hazell isn't half the coach Akers was. Akers has a pretty impressive overall coaching record in college football. Just never should have tried to be Texas at Purdue.

Sadly, this may be true.

Akers had 6 conference wins his first two years and was 9-23 in the Big Ten during his tenure at Purdue.

 

[lbodel]

Also of note, I'm not sure if this still is how it works as demand may not be as high, but in order to buy men's basketball student season tickets, you have to purchase the "football/basketball combo" tickets. So in theory, we may be selling 6,000 student tickets for football, but if students wants basketball tickets, the football tickets are an non-optional add on.

 

[Born Boiler]

Originally posted by i'vegotwinners:

Originally posted by Born Boiler:


SIBoiler responded to this on the other attendance thread.

All students were charged an activity fee in their tuition-fee package, then, upon payment, were sent a computer card to exchange for a student football season ticket. Nothing was free.

The response was always strong. Student attendance exceeded 20,000, with the assigned seating covering a third of the stadium, ranging from the freshmen and the Block P card section in the north end zone and extending around the east side to the seniors near the 50.

That all changed in 1989 when students were asked to buy their tickets separately. That response also was strong, but in reverse. The overall average attendance immediately dropped by 18,700, even though the cost difference was minimal.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





you infer that when PU started charging students separately for football tix, that student attendance dropped that yr from 20,000 or more, to less than 2,000.

is this actually factually correct, or have you taken some poetic license here?


i do appreciate any input.


on a side note, while not totally relevant to my interest in the matter, do you or anyone by chance know approx how much said "activity fee" was over the yrs?

some other questions

anyone know if PU ever charged for student football tix prior to 1989?

how much were student football tix in 1989, when they were no longer included in other fees?

how much were they this yr, and how many per game on average were sold.

I noted that Purdue student attendance "exceeded" 20,000 before 1989 -- generally appearing to be around 23,000, with students in their reserved-seat sections occupying about a third of the 67,000 capacity.



For student tickets in that first year of separate sales, I recall hearing numbers around 5,000. Purdue was 3-8 overall and averaged only 42,000 for 1989, the third of Fred Akers' four seasons. But Purdue also had losing records in each of the four preceding years - 5-6, 3-8, 3-7-1, 4-7 - and, as shown above, each of those teams averaged well over 60,000.



Not sure of the costs then or before, like when I paid the activity fee, but neither was much. Right now it's $119 … breakfast not included.



Purdue Student Tickets

 

[Pub1986]

I attended from 81-86 and I wish I could recall how much the fee was, but I think I've killed that brain cell somewhere along the way. It seems to me the ticket was like a ID card they punched at the gate a and you used it all season long. It was nice when friends/ girlfriend from out of town came. Just asked around for kids not going to game to borrow tx and student id, which they rarely seemed to check, and they'd get in for free. Lots of good times at Ross Ade. We turned many non fans into fans by just dragging them to a couple games.

 

[Onaway]

I was working in W. Laf after graduation in 1986 and $60 sticks in my mind as the fee.

My concern has always been that that kids that never came will never show up. Once the older crowd (myself included) decide to stay home the only people left is the small bump of kids from the Tiller years. MB seems to view the students as a revenue source and not an investment.

 

[SIBoiler2]

I was a student 70-72 then off and on until getting serious in 84 with a BS in 87 and MS in 90. Times are much different than in the 70 s with a constant need to be pandered to and entertained today and many social outlets available today. A lot of students with no interest in FB went to games in the 70 to be with friends and have a good time. Winning was nice when it rarely happened but being there was fun and a lot of money has found its' way back to Purdue over the years because of those "free" tickets. No such goodwill is being created today and financially the future will be affected negatively.

 

[Born Boiler]

Burke, along with Daniels and Hazell, think enough of the students that they reached into their own pockets to buy thousands of tickets to give to students for the season opener. It was the only reason we topped 30,000 that week.

Throughout my four years, I loved the semi-weekly experience of joining more than 20,000 of my peers in celebrating each other in person at games, regardless of the teams on the field. We never had a winning season, but we recognized that such broad social opportunities are rare otherwise, further limited by a short and fast-moving time on campus.

These days, on a campus of nearly 40,000 students, only a few thousand bother to show for gameday, despite season ticket offers that cost less than a dinner for two or one night in a motel. The vast majority now stay home to do something they could always do, alone or elsewhere, from their kindergarten days through nursing homes -- stare at their palms.

Social media in reality are quite the opposite. Instead, they yield virtual hermits who, even when surrounded by their peers, are oblivious to real people and miss out or ignore opportunities for actual social experiences. Like joining thousands for a football game. Their sense of community goes no further than their own nose, and that's a greater loss than any game.

 

[Pub1986]

$50-$60 was what I vaguely remember the charge being in the 80's. I agree the social media crap also makes getting kids out to the games a challenge. Of course I'm a little old fashioned since I can't believe how much time adults waste on or following twitter and Facebook. And I wonder how much Breakfast Club decreases the attendance. I attended my 1st Breakfast Club this year, lots of fun at the Piano Bar, and I can't fathom doing that before every game!

 

[Owlbird]

It's been years but as I remember in 1952 Football/Basketball were part of tuition(which was $65/semester-In state).You had to pick up tickets and that and your passport got you into games.I always had a football ticket(I would guess that less than 50% of students attended regularly).In Basketball seniors got tickets to all games(the other classes attended 1/3 of the games but you could always find a senior ticket(tickets were different colors for each class).When I was a senior myself and two buddies were the only Pharmacy students to attend regularly( 3 out of 120).Even in those years many students were not interested or didn't have the time.In my 2/1/2 years before I married my three roommates were from Taiwan,Nigeria and Scotland and didn't give a Rats ass about anything but Baseball and soccer.
I worked at University Drugs on State street(owned by Arth) for 90 cents an hour.When I was a junior and senior I closed two nights and filled Rx's as if I was an RPh-of course I had been working in a Drug Store since I was 14 and obtained an intern permit when I was 16.
I would bet Heller's Pop and many of my cohorts have
done the same.Also during those years I worked for Widmer,Schilling,Bartlett-Liske,Muirs,Hogan,Arth and at the old Pharmacy building.
In those days many/most parents didn't pay for their Kids education and student loans were unheard of.I was a full time student and worked 40/50 hours weekly,vacations for the Post Office and two jobs in the summer.
I hated my junior year with three hour labs M-W-F,ROTC drill T-Th(3 to 5) and Physics & Physics lab 8 to noon Saturdays( a total of 37 class hours).It was difficult that year even being married finding time to get laid.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

lots of great responses.

thanks.

btw, anyone else watching the bucket game on tv last saturday, notice what great pains BTN took to avoid showing the crowd?



i grew up in Bloomington in the 1950s and 60s and attended IU games regularly from probably 6th grade on.

this was possible because IU had a "Knothole Club", which allowed kids through HS to get in for $1.


one day back in the mid 60s while shooting the breeze with my high school friends, the discussion turned to why IU's attendance was so bad, even with a great brand new stadium, and why was it that PU's was much better.

one of the other guys in the group offered up that PU students didn't have to pay to get in, while IU students did.

as to just how much difference this made, i know not. but it has to have made some.



Born Boiler offers up above that when PU started charging separately for admission to fball games in 89, that student attendance dropped from 20,000 plus, to more like 5000. (with a total attendance of 42,000, down from 60,000 plus the previous yrs. the last yrs of "free" admission for students).

if those numbers are really correct, that's quite sobering..



free vs say $10, or even $5. (PU charged just over $20 a game this yr for students).

i have no doubt the administrations would argue that $20 is fair, and that $10 a game for students would be a bargain. (as would big oil argue that $2.99 gas is ridiculously "cheap", so so much for managing expectations).

if one really wants to go, and has $20 (or $10), then i suppose that argument could be made..

but no one is dragging any of their friends in with them at $20 a pop, or even $10.



but just for arguments sake, let's make it even more of a throwaway amount. say $5 for admission.


everyone can come up with $5, right?

but just how much impact on student attendance does even $5 make, vs free?



for now, forget $5, let's talk 5 cents.

i think we all can agree that 5 cents is such a throwaway amount, that no one would balk at coughing up 5 cents for anything they even remotely wanted, right?

ok, at this moment, this thread has 341 views.

how many views does it have were there a 5 cent per view charge?

zero maybe?


you're surfing You Tube, do you click on that video if there is even a 5 cent charge?

yes, anyone who really wants to see that video will probably cough up 5 cents to see it, but they won't get any of their friends to click on it too, and no one just surfing You Tube will click on it either.

does going from free to 5 cents, downgrade that You Tube video with 2 million views, to having 187 views instead?

point being, there is a big difference in "take rate" between free, and even what's considered even a "throwaway" amount like 5 cents.

"free" just brings a whole different dynamic with it, than even throwaway amounts.



Pub1986 notes above in this thread,

"We turned many non fans into fans by just dragging them to a couple games".

he also notes that the reason he could drag them in, is because they got in free.

others here have noted similar experiences.



i have long argued on IU boards that the IU administration's pricing strategy of maxing revenues, rather than attendance, just killed recruiting over the yrs, (decades), and killed long term revenues to boot through ultimately less fans and poorer teams..

how much tougher is it for PU to recruit to a half empty stadium, than a full one.

unfortunately, university ADs and prezes think more like CEOs, and long term gains get sacrificed for short term ones.



so just how many paying students did PU average this yr per game?

if it was say 5000, at $20 per game, then that would be a little over $700,000 in revenues for the yr.

if it was 10,000, then that would be $1,400,000 per yr.


no offense, but $700,000 is petty cash money even for PU's yearly budget, and $1.4 mil not much either.

heck, Painter extorted you guys out of an extra $1.4 mil a yr, just by visiting Mizzou for a couple days.


IU has no trouble wasting that much per yr of frivolous spending as well. (just spent more than that to reshuffle a home game from next yr to 2016). (getting ready to spend $35 mil on mostly frivolous stuff for the basketball arena).


point being, both PU and IU are killing student attendance, thus killing future adult attendance, thus killing recruiting every yr, thus killing long term revenues big time, just to make small change now, from students that they are already milking for every cent they have. (only the increase in the cost of a secondary education, has outpaced the increase in the cost of health care).


the added revenues PU and IU are making from tv every yr, would far more than absorb the cost of free admission to fball games for students, and it wouldn't take much in added enrollment revenues, to eclipse that.


just sayin, is it really worth IU and PU just killing their football programs long term, and long term football revenues with it, for a paltry $700,000 to $1 mil a yr? (i doubt IU netted even $700,000 from student fball revenues this yr).

at what point do the administrations take some responsibility for the empty stadiums we saw at football games this yr?

and why would we think the decline has bottomed out?

just how empty do the stadiums need to get on saturdays, before the light goes on in leaderships' heads..



hoping for miracle seasons to magically fix everything, is managerial incompetence.

when that magic happens, strategies can be re-visited.

until such time, perhaps time for some heads to be extricated from some asses, at both PU and IU.








This post was edited on 12/5 4:52 AM by i'vegotwinners

 

[boilerdug]

I got to talking to a buddy about this yesterday. He reminded me how bad the student section was in the late 80s even when the tickets were "free". The student section wasn't nearly as good or organized as it is today.
Remember how everyone use to throw marshmallows at each other???? It was ridiculously chaotic. No one watched the games. There were butts in the seats, but most weren't doing much cheering.

 

[timboiler]

My daughter is a sophomore and she gets an all-sports pass that gets her into everything including football and basketball games for about $250 I believe. She loves the volleyball games, so she has three sports she regularly goes to. The difference between now and the 70's and 80's is the sheer cost of going to Purdue. In the fall of 1980 my first semester of in-state tuition was $504, I went the whole year for about $3000. Nowadays in-state it is $20,000 before you buy a book. I am trying to pay as much of it as I can as I don't want her to graduate with a mountain of debt. In all likelihood I will have two daughters at Purdue next year and that isn't going to be easy. I guess my point is with the astronomical costs of higher education, how many parents are willing to pay the extra for tickets to sporting events? I don't know if I would, but her Grandfather has bought them for her for her birthday. Even if a ticket is only $10, spending money is limited for most students and they have to decide where they want to spend that $10. How many want to spend it to go to a football game you leave at halftime because your team is down by three touchdowns?

 

[Onaway]

.hoping for miracle seasons to magically fix everything, is managerial incompetence.

That quote sums it up pretty accurately.

Somewhere I heard that someone recommended giving away big screen TVs or anything with and i in front of it at the end of the games to get and keep the students there. I didn't like that idea at first but I am warming up to it now.

They need to get creative and to view the students as an investment and not a revenue source (IMHO).